Stephen Hughes wrote: Thomas Dolhanty wrote:καὶ ἐὰν ἄνθρωπος δυνηθῇ ὡς ἀκρὶς πηδᾶν καὶ ἠδύνατο ὑπερβῆναι φραγμόν ὅ ἐστιν πήχεις διακόσιοι τὸ ὕψος. πλὴν καταβῆναι δυσκόλως σφόδρα ἐστίν καἰ δεὶ συμβιβάζειν τὸν ἄνθρωπον τοὺς πόδας αὐτοῦ πρὶν τὸ ψηλαφῆσαί τὴν γῆν.
Perhaps you should reconsider ἠδύνατο. English "would" is the past tense of "will", and you have this in a past tense following that pattern I guess you are following. Conditionals are one of my weakest points in Greek, but I think that what you are doing here is using the past tense here, when you should use something else.
Thank you for the feedback here, Stephen. Very helpful, and I do appreciate you taking the time. I must say that the conditional here was one of the things I was quite tentative about.
In reviewing Funk (Lesson 59), Wallace GGBB (pg 690ff), and Decker (
Reading Koine Greek, Lesson 30), I NOW understand this to be a
first class conditional. Here is Wallace's definition
Wallace, GGBB, pg. 690 wrote:
1. First Class Condition (Assumed True for Argument’s Sake)
a. Definition
The first class condition indicates the assumption of truth for the sake of argument. The normal idea, then, is if–and let us assume that this is true for the sake of argument–then. . . . This class uses the particle εἰ with the indicative (in any tense) in the protasis. In the apodosis, any mood and any tense can occur. This is a frequent conditional clause, occurring about 300 times in the NT.10
Wallace GGBB pg. 690
As I understand this, I should have used
εἰ + indicative rather than
ἐάν + subjunctive. The apodosis then would also be an indicative, and in my usage it should be in the same tense as the protasis. From the examples I've seen, I think that tense could be past present or future, and they often (but not necessarily) match.
"If a man were .... then he was able"; "if a man will be .... then he will be able", and so on. Thus I should have written something like:
- καὶ εἰ ἄνθρωπος ἐδύνατο ὡς ἀκρὶς πηδᾶν καὶ ἐδύνατο ὑπερβῆναι φραγμόν ...
instead of
- καὶ ἐὰν ἄνθρωπος δυνηθῇ ὡς ἀκρὶς πηδᾶν καὶ ἠδύνατο ὑπερβῆναι φραγμόν ...
Stephen Hughes wrote:δυσκόλως - this idea is difficult in English too. What you have said here means that he had a great deal of difficulty getting to the ground, but that is not the nature of the beast at hand here. He doesn't have difficulty getting to the ground, but when he reaches the ground. Perhaps καταβῆναι εἰς τὸ ἔδαφος could make it clear you are only talking about the moment of landing, rather than the (whole) descent. I think that the English phrase, "a difficult landing" is one that needs a lot of skill to do safely. Could you think of a word that has a meaning "with (grievous) injury", or "dangerously" instead of δυσκόλως?
ψηλαφῆσαι - "touch" as in "touch down" arrive at? Perhaps ἀφίκηται?
Yes, I think I was reaching for a bit of subtlety here which I didn't achieve in Greek. What I wanted to say is, 'he can jump as high as a high rise (probably not quite 200 cubits!), but the real challenge is coming back down.' In English you depend on a sort of deliberate understatement for effect, 'So he gets as high as a high rise! Great! Then what?' - 'Has he considered the descent?'
ψηλαφῆσαι - "touch" as in "touch down" arrive at? Perhaps ἀφίκηται? - "touch" as in make contact with. I agree that I was forcing one of the required words into the slot here.
Stephen Hughes wrote:Is Koine Greek the first foreign language you have attempted to communicate in?
I have never had to communicate for real in any other language than my mother tongue - at least not beyond the touristy stuff. A half a century ago and longer, I did a number of years of French grammar which was the norm for Canadians of that era (shoulda done more communicative); I did several years of latin, I did a course in Russian. More recently I've done a lot of work in Biblical Hebrew, including intermediate and advanced university courses, and I've spent a bit of time of Koine Greek. I've also done a smattering of modern Greek and Spanish.