Jason Hare wrote:KimmoHuovila wrote:Jason,
Yes, I understand what you are saying about the adverbials. However, ἀδελφός is rarely qualified by any of these when used of a fellow believer.
I didn't mention adverbials. I stated that this is an adjectival phrase.
"the brothers" - which brothers? - "the ones in the Lord"
In classical Greek, this would be (using the genitive of the original) either τῶν ἀδελφῶν τῶν ἐν (τῷ) κυρίῳ or τῶν ἐν (τῷ) κυρίῳ ἀδελφῶν. The Koine has this adjective phrase sometimes outside of the construction (technically in the "predicate position") even though it's used as a description/modifier. τῶν ἀδελφῶν ἐν κυρίῳ very naturally reads "the brothers in the Lord," simply missing the second τῶν, which is common in Koine.
Could you more completely spell out your alternative and demonstrate why you think it's even worth considering? I'll try to piece it together in the way that you're looking at it later, but I'm about to head over to Tel Aviv and take in the protesters' message. I need to jump in the shower and go catch a taxi.
Regards,
Jason
Yes, you said adjectival phrase, sorry about that.
Your view makes sense. Despite the fact that further qualification of the brothers is rare, it would not be strange. The grammar in your view is ordinary.
The idea that "in the Lord" is "emphatic" or focal is found in many commentaries, like Mike noted. I am trying to see what sense to make of it in this context.
As you asked for more detailed explanations of alternatives, I try to offer some suggestions. I do not claim that these are viable.
The dative has often been taken as a cause of confidence. Doing a quick search, I could not find parallels for this use of dative with the verb, so I wonder if it should rather be taken as confidence or trust for something.
(1) "most of the brothers are convinced that my imprisonment is "in the Lord" (however that phrase is taken in the context). We could see an ellipsis here ([τοὺς πλείονας τῶν ἀδελφῶν] [ἐν κυρίῳ πεποιθότας τοῖς δεσμοῖς μου εἶναι]).
2. Cor 10:7 "εἴ τις πέποιθεν ἑαυτοῷ Χριστοῦ εἶναι" is a parallel for the construction πέποιθα + dative with a predicate expression with a meaning 'trust that dative is predicate"
(2) Presupposing "Most of the brothers have confidence [because of/for] my chains", with the focus that this confidence is in the Lord. "the confidence most brothers [have for / have received from] my imprisonment is in the Lord"
(3) "It is in the Lord most of the brothers trust for my chains"
Suggestion (2) seems problematic to me in that it presupposes that most brothers gained confidence because of the chains. I don't see much contextual support for such a presupposition. Rather it seems to be Paul's assertion instead of presupposition.
I am not sure that (1) or (3) are free from problems, either.
sccarlson wrote:
You mean like: "As for most of the brothers, it is in the Lord that they have confidence in my chains"?
Yes, now the focus is clearly marked. The double 'in' does not differentiate between the roles, though. "As for most of the brothers, it is in the Lord that they have confidence for my chains"? The question is, would this make sense in the context.
MAubrey wrote:
Kimmo, I think you're placing too much stock on the numbers. I'm not sure that they're relevant here. If you look at the Greek fathers, you're going to find that native speakers assume implicitly that ἀδελφῶν and ἐν κυρίῳ go together.
I agree that conceptually they go together. I also agree native speakers implicitly put the two together. I do think that the numbers are enough to show that the prepositional phrase was not needed for disambiguation or clarification (the meaning of blood relatives would hardly have crossed the minds of the readers). Do you see any signifigance in the choice to include or exclude the prepositional phrase? Many linguists believe choice implies meaning. I am not trying to get too much of this. I am aware that the choice may carry quite little meaning here.
The main result of this exchange so far is that no one has been willing or able to put together any serious argument to say that contextually ἐν κυρίῳ even could be taken together with what follows. Thank you all for the discussion so far.