Translating Origen

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Philip Arend
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Translating Origen

Post by Philip Arend » January 7th, 2019, 11:52 am

Hi, this is a relatively simple text, but could I ask comments on whether my translation is reasonable?

Ἡ δὲ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ Χριστὸς, προτρεπόμενος πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν, καὶ ἕλκων εἰς ἑαυτὸν διὰ τῆς χάριτος.

And the kingdom of heaven is Christ himself, exhorting all to repentance, and drawing them to himself through grace.”

Thanks
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 7th, 2019, 12:12 pm

Here is the text in context.

Scholia in Matthaeum, Chapter 11, Verse 12.
Ἡ δὲ βασιλεία α. ν οὐρανῶν αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ Χριστὸς, προτρεπόμενος πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν, καὶ ἕλκων εἰς ἑαυτὸν διὰ τῆς χάριτος.
Can anyone help me with "α. ν"?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Barry Hofstetter » January 7th, 2019, 12:48 pm

The translation is fine, though I think προτρέπω is a strong term, "urging, impelling."

Jonathan, maybe it's something, but is strikes me that it's a scanning error of some sort.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 7th, 2019, 12:57 pm

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 12:48 pm
Jonathan, maybe it's something, but is strikes me that it's a scanning error of some sort.
Ah, they mis-scanned τῶν. I should have simply compared the two texts. Thanks!
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Benjamin Kantor
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Benjamin Kantor » January 7th, 2019, 1:09 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 12:12 pm
Here is the text in context.

Scholia in Matthaeum, Chapter 11, Verse 12.
Ἡ δὲ βασιλεία α. ν οὐρανῶν αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ Χριστὸς, προτρεπόμενος πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν, καὶ ἕλκων εἰς ἑαυτὸν διὰ τῆς χάριτος.
Can anyone help me with "α. ν"?
Sometimes in medieval MSS combinations like these can be abbreviations of words like αυτον, αυτων, etc. Not sure how that would fit here, perhaps αυτων των [ουρανων] 'of the very same [heavens]', though that seems like kind of a strange reading to me. At the same time, I could see such a reading making sense in terms of the flow of thought:
Ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ τῶν οὐρανῶν μείζων αὐτοῦ ἐστιν. Ἡ δὲ βασιλεία α. ν οὐρανῶν αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ Χριστὸς, προτρεπόμενος πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν, καὶ ἕλκων εἰς ἑαυτὸν διὰ τῆς χάριτος.
In the kingdom of the heaven, [the one least in the kingdom] is greater than he (i.e., John the Baptist) is. And the kingdom of this very same heaven is Christ himself...

If Origen is wanting to draw a strong connection between these two verses that could be going on here, maybe he uses αυτων this way. But it may have some other explanation or be an error of some kind. If I had to come up with something though, that is what I would suggest. I would like to see the manuscript though if it has a line above the word to indicate it is an abbreviation.

Also, I'm sure others more experienced with scholia than myself might have another suggestion.
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Benjamin Kantor
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Benjamin Kantor » January 7th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Actually, let's not rule out α. ν = αυτων των ουρανων yet. See just a bit later in this same commentary of Origen, note the use of ουρανος in the discourse:

Commentary on Matthew, 12.10.1–24
Τάχα δὲ ὅπερ ἀποκριθεὶς Σίμων Πέτρος εἶπεν ἐν τῷ σὺ εἶ ὁ Χριστὸς ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ζῶντος, ἐὰν ὡς ὁ Πέτρος λέγωμεν, οὐ σαρκὸς καὶ αἵματος ἡμῖν ἀποκαλύψαντος ἀλλὰ φωτὸς ἡμῶν τῇ καρδίᾳ ἐλλάμψαντος ἀπὸ τοῦ ἐν οὐρανοῖς πατρός, καὶ αὐτοὶ γινόμεθα ὅπερ καὶ ὁ Πέτρος, ὁμοίως αὐτῷ μακαριζόμενοι διὰ τὸ τὰ αἴτια τοῦ μακαρισμοῦ ἐκείνῳ καὶ ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς ἐφθακέναι, τῷ σάρκα καὶ αἷμα μὴ ἀποκεκαλυφέναι ἡμῖν περὶ τοῦ τὸν Ἰησοῦν εἶναι Χριστὸν υἱὸν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ζῶντος, ἀλλὰ τὸν ἐν οὐρανοῖς πατέρα ἀπ’ αὐτῶν τῶν οὐρανῶν, ἵνα «ἐν οὐρανοῖς» πολιτευσώμεθα, ἀποκαλύψαντα ἡμῖν ἀποκάλυψιν ἀνάγουσαν εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς τοὺς περιαιροῦντας μὲν πᾶν «κάλυμμα» ἀπὸ τῆς καρδίας, ἀναλαβόντας δὲ τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς «σοφίας» τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τῆς «ἀποκαλύψεως».
And perhaps, that which Simon Peter answering said, in the phrase, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God, if we say as Peter, not with flesh and blood having revealed it to us but the light which has shined in our hearts from the Father in heaven, we also ourselves become just as Peter, blessed similarly to him because of the fact that the reasons for the blessing of him also extend to us, by the fact that flesh and blood have not revealed to us regarding Jesus Christ being the Son of the living God, but rather the Father in heaven from the very same heaven, so that we may be citizens in heaven, having revealed to us a revelation leading to the heaven that takes away every veil from the heart, and having received the spirit of the wisdom of God and of revelation.
In other words, it's possible, not contrary to his style in the very same commentary.

Anyone know which manuscript those scholia are taken from. I would be happy to check it if I can.
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Benjamin Kantor
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Benjamin Kantor » January 7th, 2019, 1:45 pm

Nevermind ... :(

I think I found the cause of the scanning error. Look at the digital copy of Migne's edition:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9ws ... &q&f=false


Page 293 on this ^ link. You can see the τ and ω are a bit obscured so they look like an α.
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Philip Arend
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Philip Arend » January 7th, 2019, 5:46 pm

Thanks for the discussion and links. I had to smile at another error on the Scaife viewer link that Jonathan sent: ...περὶ αὐτοῦ λέγειν τοῦ Χρισποῦ·
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 7th, 2019, 6:01 pm

Philip Arend wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 5:46 pm
Thanks for the discussion and links. I had to smile at another error on the Scaife viewer link that Jonathan sent: ...περὶ αὐτοῦ λέγειν τοῦ Χρισποῦ·
I think we are discovering a new branch of textual criticism. Wonder what kind of OCR those ancient scribes were using?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Benjamin Kantor
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Re: Translating Origen

Post by Benjamin Kantor » January 9th, 2019, 8:45 pm

It is quite funny actually and a nice window into what happens so often in scholarship.

I had come up with this whole elaborate theory based on nothing more than too much or not enough light reflecting on the turned up part of a page in a scan :)

Sadly, there are parts of books where entire sections/theories are based on incorrect readings for a text.
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