hoi douloi/hai doulai

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rubenk
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hoi douloi/hai doulai

Post by rubenk » February 11th, 2019, 4:31 am

Hi, a simple question (I just have no idea in Greek, sorry!).
LXX translates the word "slaves" in Exodus 21:7 as hai doulai (female slaves). In original word in Hebrew says "slaves", which in Hebrew means primarily male slaves, but also male-and-female slaves (in Hebrew, if you use a plural masculine form it may reffer to masculine only, but also to both males and females). my question is: how does it work in Greek, is there a general term for slaves that you could use in order to express in one word "male-and-female slaves", which the translators could have used in order to translate the Hebrew "slaves (AVADIM)" (like the English: "slaves") or isn't there such a thing, and the translator had to chose between "hoi douloi" and "hai doulai"? (the verse speaks after all about the rules of a female slave).
Thank you,
Ruben
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: hoi douloi/hai doulai

Post by Jonathan Robie » February 11th, 2019, 7:05 pm

rubenk wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 4:31 am
LXX translates the word "slaves" in Exodus 21:7 as hai doulai (female slaves). In original word in Hebrew says "slaves", which in Hebrew means primarily male slaves, but also male-and-female slaves (in Hebrew, if you use a plural masculine form it may reffer to masculine only, but also to both males and females).
Indeed. And the Greek word works pretty much the same way. The LXX and the Hebrew do not say the same thing.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

rubenk
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Joined: December 30th, 2015, 6:30 am

Re: hoi douloi/hai doulai

Post by rubenk » February 13th, 2019, 6:31 am

I'm sorry Jonathan, thanks for your reply but I need more clarification. (what doe's: "works the same way" reffer to). In short: would it be possible in Greek to use a general word (like the English "slaves") without indicating whether we speak about males or females? of must he "pick a side"?
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: hoi douloi/hai doulai

Post by Barry Hofstetter » February 13th, 2019, 6:56 am

The masculine is the common gender in Greek, so that δοῦλοι may be used of both male and female slaves. עֶבֶד is the common word in Hebrew with a fairly wide range of usage, and it appears to me could be used to cover both male and female slaves. HALOT shows how it is translated in the LXX:

עֶבֶד (800 times, Sept. 340 times παῖς, 310 times δοῦλος, 42 times θεράπων, for other renderings see vdPloeg VTSupp. 22 (1972):74f)

Koehler, L., Baumgartner, W., Richardson, M. E. J., & Stamm, J. J. (1994–2000). The Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (electronic ed., p. 774). Leiden: E.J. Brill.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: hoi douloi/hai doulai

Post by Jonathan Robie » February 13th, 2019, 9:07 am

rubenk wrote:
February 13th, 2019, 6:31 am
I'm sorry Jonathan, thanks for your reply but I need more clarification.
Barry explained what I meant quite well.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

rubenk
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Joined: December 30th, 2015, 6:30 am

Re: hoi douloi/hai doulai

Post by rubenk » February 14th, 2019, 5:55 am

Thank you very much! you've helped me alot!
Ruben
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