Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

How do I work out the meaning of a Greek text? How can I best understand the forms and vocabulary in this particular text?
Forum rules
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.

When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
John Brainard
Posts: 72
Joined: September 18th, 2011, 5:17 pm

Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by John Brainard »

In a recent discussion at CARM I was told that QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS (Modern Greek) John 1:1 is identical to Kai Theos en o logos (koine)

Is this an accurate statement?

John
Alan Patterson
Posts: 158
Joined: September 3rd, 2011, 7:21 pm
Location: Emory University

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by Alan Patterson »

Hi John,

HTAN seems grammatically out of place. en is correct grammatically.
I was told that QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS (Modern Greek) John 1:1 is identical to Kai Theos en o logos (koine)

QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS would be translated:
The word (they) were God.
HTAN is 3rd Person Plural, if my modern Greek is correct (and I am very poor on modern Greek).

Kai Theos en o logos
And the word was [a] god/God.
This is grammatically correct since en is 3rd Person Singular.

I have a feeling this answer may not be overly satisfying for what you are looking for. Are you sure that is the modern Greek sentence? If so, a modern Greek B-Greeker will have to step in and clarify this.

To sum, en and HTAN are not equivalent.
χαρις υμιν και ειρηνη,
Alan Patterson
John Brainard
Posts: 72
Joined: September 18th, 2011, 5:17 pm

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by John Brainard »

Alan Patterson wrote:Hi John,

HTAN seems grammatically out of place. en is correct grammatically.
I was told that QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS (Modern Greek) John 1:1 is identical to Kai Theos en o logos (koine)

QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS would be translated:
The word (they) were God.
HTAN is 3rd Person Plural, if my modern Greek is correct (and I am very poor on modern Greek).

Kai Theos en o logos
And the word was [a] god/God.
This is grammatically correct since en is 3rd Person Singular.

I have a feeling this answer may not be overly satisfying for what you are looking for. Are you sure that is the modern Greek sentence? If so, a modern Greek B-Greeker will have to step in and clarify this.

To sum, en and HTAN are not equivalent.
I have very little understanding of Modern Greek. This is why I posted it here. The Modern Text is a cut and paste from the New World Translation.

Thank you for you input

John
David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by David Lim »

John Brainard wrote:I have very little understanding of Modern Greek. This is why I posted it here. The Modern Text is a cut and paste from the New World Translation.
I thought the NWT is in English? Anyway you can read a modern Greek translation at The Unbound Bible. Here is John 1
δαυιδ λιμ
Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 2159
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

David Lim wrote:
John Brainard wrote:I have very little understanding of Modern Greek. This is why I posted it here. The Modern Text is a cut and paste from the New World Translation.
I thought the NWT is in English? Anyway you can read a modern Greek translation at The Unbound Bible. Here is John 1
And this has ητο, 3rd person singular, as do both print modern Greek Bibles that I have, one Katharevousa, the other Demotike. Whatever the source, it does not appear to be accurate.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Shirley Rollinson
Posts: 415
Joined: June 4th, 2011, 6:19 pm
Location: New Mexico
Contact:

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by Shirley Rollinson »

A point to remember is that the New World Translation is produced by the Jehovah's Witnesses (there may be an agenda there)
Also the Nominative definite article with a copula in Greek normally indicates the subject.
So ὁ λογος should be translated as the subject, and θεος as predicate nominative
"The word was God"
John Brainard
Posts: 72
Joined: September 18th, 2011, 5:17 pm

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by John Brainard »

I want to thank all of you for your answers. I know this is out of the ordinary and I do not have any modern Greek Grammars.

John
George F Somsel
Posts: 172
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 10:11 am

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by George F Somsel »

There is a modern Greek bible at Christian Classics Etherial Library (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/gkmod.John.1.html)

1Εν αρχη ητο ο Λογος, και ο Λογος ητο παρα τω Θεω, και Θεος ητο ο Λογος.
george
gfsomsel



… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.



- Jan Hus
Scott Lawson
Posts: 450
Joined: June 9th, 2011, 6:36 pm

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by Scott Lawson »

I note that ήταν serves in Demotic for both the 3rd person singular and for 3rd person plural imperfect.
Scott Lawson
Scott Lawson
Posts: 450
Joined: June 9th, 2011, 6:36 pm

Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Post by Scott Lawson »

David Lim wrote:
John Brainard wrote:I have very little understanding of Modern Greek. This is why I posted it here. The Modern Text is a cut and paste from the New World Translation.
I thought the NWT is in English? Anyway you can read a modern Greek translation at The Unbound Bible. Here is John 1
David,

The NWT is currently printed in 123 languages with more to follow. This is an unconfirmed number which I took note of at a discourse a couple of weeks ago. Wikipedia reports 116 as the official number.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+man ... #itp=open0
Scott Lawson
Post Reply

Return to “What does this text mean?”