BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

I don't understand what my textbook is saying about X. Can someone help me?
Thomas Dolhanty
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Re: BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » January 12th, 2015, 2:36 pm

Eeli Kaikkonen wrote:Something like Danker's Concise lexicon. But it's too expensive for its size and target audience.
Yes, And you can get it on Kindle for $31, which is still a bit expensive but getting closer to reasonable. Very handy to have it electronically too, depending on personal habits and setup.
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Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » January 12th, 2015, 2:56 pm

Eeli Kaikkonen wrote:
Thomas Dolhanty wrote:
RandallButh wrote:Yes, a new student only has a NEED to avoid Strongs.
Agreed. A good basic lexicon is required.
Something like Danker's Concise lexicon. But it's too expensive for its size and target audience.
I have worn out the first and second edition of the concise lexicon. You do need it! Buy it used. I have not acquired the third edition. It is a book that complements the full lexicon. You do not always need to see a full page article on a word.

I have been using Grimm-Thayer[1] along with BDAG and BADG for over 20 years. I have heard all the standard comments[2] about Grimm-Thayer being hopelessly out of date but having compared it with the newer works I rarely find a difference that would impact a new student who is just getting started. In regard to Louw-Nida just last week I ran into an issue with that lexicon.
uberdwayne wrote:
Matt 2:6 wrote:ὅστις ποιμανεῖ τὸν λαόν μου τὸν Ἰσραήλ.
I'm struggling here with ὅστις. What would the change in meaning be if it had read ὅς instead of ὅστις? Any thoughts?
In the Koine the distinction between ὅς and ὅστις in the nominative is not maintained with any consistency in some authors. For discussion of this see the grammars: ATR p67 (bottom), 726.2, Moulton Prolg. 91-92, BDF §293, N. Turner, 2, 47-48, 117. Also the lexicons, Danker's 3rd, BDAG 730.3, Grimm-Thayer 457.5.
Louw & Nida appear to not exactly agree with the others on ὅστις.
92.18 ὅστις, ἥτις, ὅ τι: a reference to an indefinite entity, event, or state — ‘whoever, whichever, whatever’ (though often translated as ‘who, which, or what,’ since these pronouns in English are often indefinite in meaning). ὅστις γὰρ ἂν ποιήσῃ τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πατρός μου τοῦ ἐν οὐρανοῖς ‘for whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven’ Mt 12:50; οἵτινες ἐθεραπεύοντο ἅπαντες ‘who were all healed’ Ac 5:16.


[1] I stumbled onto a hardbound large format Grimm-Thayer published eons ago. The paperbacks are almost unreadable, your better off reading it online.

[2] the papyri … yawn
Last edited by Stirling Bartholomew on January 12th, 2015, 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 12th, 2015, 2:59 pm

Thomas Dolhanty wrote:The first entry is from the simple UBS lexicon - 109 words. The second is from Gingrich which is a little bit more complete with quite a few Biblical examples - 514 words. Finally, here is the entry for BDAG - all 6,516 words worth.

Here are the entries from the three different lexicons:
UBS - http://www.2tim316.com/Uploads/ubs_epi.pdf
Gingrich - http://www.2tim316.com/Uploads/ging_epi.pdf
BDAG - http://www.2tim316.com/Uploads/bdag_epi.pdf

You won't need such a sophisticated (and expensive) lexicon until you complete introductory grammar. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many first year students who begin with such a lexicon, or instructors who require it. It's simply overwhelming for most beginners.
For comparison, here is the same word in Abbott-Smith.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Thomas Dolhanty
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Re: BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » January 12th, 2015, 5:32 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:For comparison, here is the same word in Abbott-Smith.
I have not seen this one before. I really like the layout and the coverage for entry level or quick reference. So easy to scan a word for essential information and quite impressive list of Biblical references for the different expressions of each lexical entry. I notice, though, that the layout in this digital copy looks quite different than the layout in the paperback listed on Amazon (which is getting up there again at $55).
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 12th, 2015, 7:29 pm

Thomas Dolhanty wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:For comparison, here is the same word in Abbott-Smith.
I have not seen this one before. I really like the layout and the coverage for entry level or quick reference. So easy to scan a word for essential information and quite impressive list of Biblical references for the different expressions of each lexical entry. I notice, though, that the layout in this digital copy looks quite different than the layout in the paperback listed on Amazon (which is getting up there again at $55).
I got my hardcover edition for around $10, and you can find copies for about that price. Some of those links point to a PDF, make sure you are getting a printed book if that's what you want.

Yes, the layout is different.

It's out of copyright, I wish someone would create a free Kindle edition or a PDF based on the XML version. Some day I may get around to it ...
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Thomas Dolhanty
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Re: BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » January 12th, 2015, 10:34 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote: I got my hardcover edition for around $10, and you can find copies for about that price. Some of those links point to a PDF, make sure you are getting a printed book if that's what you want.
Yes, the layout is different.
It's out of copyright, I wish someone would create a free Kindle edition or a PDF based on the XML version. Some day I may get around to it ...
I had the happy experience of acquiring Bibleworks within a couple of months of starting to learn Greek and Hebrew. Now, 7 years later, my advice to my own students is, 'If you can scratch up the money, get Bibleworks!' - and a few do. There I have 10 Greek lexicons, some of which I also have in hardcopy, including LEH, BDAG and LS. I find these 3 have become my goto lexicons for pretty much everything, unless I'm on a particular hunt with Louw-Nida, TDNT, etc.

My students though, at least the ones who can't pony up the $400+ Cdn to buy Bibleworks, start asking about lexicons after the first session, and I'm always looking for something in the $15 - $40 range to suggest. Unfortunately, the $10US hardcopy looks like $30-$40Cdn by the time it lands on the doorstep here in the North Country. Furthermore, for better or for worse, students want friendly layouts nowadays - and often digital - even those like me who are "pre-digital", and can remember the dinosaurs!
It's out of copyright, I wish someone would create a free Kindle edition or a PDF based on the XML version. Some day I may get around to it
I particularly like the HTML version you linked to. (I also downloaded the pdf version of the 1922 publication). I turned your HTML into a pdf (I'm assuming there are no copyright issues), and will add a few bookmarks.

Maybe I can help with the XML. Where does one find a copy of the XML version.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 13th, 2015, 5:06 pm

Let's discuss in private, I would be very happy to see free PDF and Kindle versions of Abbott-Smith.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Thomas Dolhanty
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Joined: May 20th, 2014, 10:13 am
Location: west coast of Canada

Re: BDAG needed with Strong's Greek Dictionary?

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » January 13th, 2015, 5:34 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:I would be very happy to see free PDF and Kindle versions of Abbott-Smith.
Amen. "δωρεὰν ἐλάβετε, δωρεὰν δότε."
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