John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post Reply
timintheworld
Posts: 2
Joined: March 19th, 2018, 11:17 am

John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by timintheworld » March 19th, 2018, 11:31 am

I am approving your post, but please contact a moderator about changing your screen name to your real name, per B-Greek policy -- BH

**********

I understand that in John 1:12 τέκνα completes / is the object of the verb γενέσθαι.


ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα θεοῦ γενέσθαι,

τέκνα is not a part of a standard double-accusative, since the indirect object is in the dative (αὐτοῖς).

Is there any pressing reason to argue that τέκνα must be accusative instead of nominative? My parser says is must be accusative, but I can't understand why.

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1206
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by Barry Hofstetter » March 19th, 2018, 7:53 pm

The subject of an infinitive is usually in the accusative, unless the subject of the main clause is the same as the subject of the infinitive, which is clearly not the case here.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

timothy_p_mcmahon
Posts: 226
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:47 pm

Re: John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by timothy_p_mcmahon » March 20th, 2018, 1:55 pm

Wouldn't the subject of the infinitive be them (with αὐτοῖς its antecedent) and τέκνα be the subject complement?

Robert Crowe
Posts: 108
Joined: January 8th, 2016, 11:06 am
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by Robert Crowe » March 20th, 2018, 2:55 pm

timothy_p_mcmahon wrote:
March 20th, 2018, 1:55 pm
Wouldn't the subject of the infinitive be them (with αὐτοῖς its antecedent) and τέκνα be the subject complement?
No. τέκνα θεοῦ γενέσθαι qualifies ἐξουσίαν. Both τέκνα and γενέσθαι are in accusative agreement with ἐξουσίαν.
Tús maith leath na hoibre.

timothy_p_mcmahon
Posts: 226
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:47 pm

Re: John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by timothy_p_mcmahon » March 21st, 2018, 3:18 am

Robert Crowe wrote:
March 20th, 2018, 2:55 pm
No. τέκνα θεοῦ γενέσθαι qualifies ἐξουσίαν. Both τέκνα and γενέσθαι are in accusative agreement with ἐξουσίαν.
This is a different perspective than I've ever encountered. Can you elucidate?

Robert Crowe
Posts: 108
Joined: January 8th, 2016, 11:06 am
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by Robert Crowe » March 21st, 2018, 7:24 am

The construction is lexically determined by words like ἐξουσία that demand further explanation. It begs the question ´What kind of ἐξουσία?´. The infinitive is sometimes called ´epexegetical’ or ´prolative’.
Tús maith leath na hoibre.

timothy_p_mcmahon
Posts: 226
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:47 pm

Re: John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by timothy_p_mcmahon » March 21st, 2018, 7:12 pm

I get the concept of the epexegetical infinitive. But I'm not seeing how the subject of γενέσθαι is not identical with the subject of ελαβον earlier in the verse, and τέκνα the predicate of the embedded sentence. I don't see how the accusative case of ἐξουσίαν has anything to do with τέκνα being accusative.

timintheworld
Posts: 2
Joined: March 19th, 2018, 11:17 am

Re: John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by timintheworld » March 22nd, 2018, 5:09 am

This will be your last approved post until you contact a moderator about changing your screen name to your real name. --BH

**********

I am with Tim McMahon on this.

I suspect we should imagine an autous as the accusative subject of the verb, and treat tekna as the verb’s object, taking the same case (acc).

Would this solve the problem?

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1206
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: John 1:12 case of τέκνα

Post by Barry Hofstetter » March 22nd, 2018, 5:40 am

It usually helps to cite the entire verse:

 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ...

Avoid calling the predicates of intransitive verbs "objects" since that can lead to confusion. Other than that, whatever we want to call the usage of the infinitive, It's probably best as noted above to supply αὐτούς as an understood subject and see τέκνα as the predicate. My earlier response was Q&D without looking at the syntax of the verse carefully.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest