"Prepositional Phrases" and Syntax

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Jacob Rhoden
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"Prepositional Phrases" and Syntax

Post by Jacob Rhoden » July 26th, 2018, 11:09 pm

Regarding John 3:1
Ἦν δὲ ἄνθρωπος ἐκ τῶν Φαρισαίων, Νικόδημος ὄνομα αὐτῷ, ἄρχων τῶν Ἰουδαίων·
I read "ἐκ τῶν Φαρισαίων" as providing more information about the "ἄνθρωπος". However when I consult Accordance's "Diagram of the Greek New Testament", it is attached to "Ἦν" rather than "ἄνθρωπος".

I don't know a lot about "syntax" yet, I assume someone will have a good reference/recommendation for what to read on this, but in the mean time my question is this. Is it completely subjective as to whether we believe a clause/phrase attaches to the noun or the verb, or am I just wrong 😄 i.e. Are there rules/patterns that would dictate or strongly suggest one way is correct?

Thanks!
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: "Prepositional Phrases" and Syntax

Post by Stephen Carlson » July 26th, 2018, 11:59 pm

Looks like there is a difference of opinion as to what the predicate is. I (and apparently) you think it is a man from the Pharisees in an existential statement (i.e. There was a man from the Pharisees), while whoever diagrammed that sentence thought the predicate was just "from the Pharisees" (as if But a man was from the Pharisees).

I think the diagrammer got it wrong. Aside from the common practice of using existential statement at the beginning of a new scene, the fact that ἄνθρωπος is anarthrous suggests it is part of the predicate.
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Jacob Rhoden
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Re: "Prepositional Phrases" and Syntax

Post by Jacob Rhoden » July 27th, 2018, 12:16 am

Thats really helpful, thanks for your reply.

I take it from your response that technically both are possible—because you had to provide argumentation to demonstrate why your reading of the passage (and mine) was the correct option.
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: "Prepositional Phrases" and Syntax

Post by Barry Hofstetter » July 27th, 2018, 5:32 am

Jacob Rhoden wrote:
July 27th, 2018, 12:16 am
Thats really helpful, thanks for your reply.

I take it from your response that technically both are possible—because you had to provide argumentation to demonstrate why your reading of the passage (and mine) was the correct option.
Just because something is technically possible doesn't mean that it's right. Also, it's rather an odd claim here. Both are technically possible because an argument was given to support one of the claims? I know people who are King James Version Only. I occasionally provide evidence and arguments to help them see why their position is wrong, but that does not mean that their position is "technically possible." :lol:
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Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: "Prepositional Phrases" and Syntax

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » July 27th, 2018, 12:55 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 11:59 pm

I think the diagrammer got it wrong. Aside from the common practice of using existential statement at the beginning of a new scene, the fact that ἄνθρωπος is anarthrous suggests it is part of the predicate.
The sentence might be thought of as "presentational" (whatever that means). Some samples which may or may not be relevant:

Mark 3:1 Καὶ εἰσῆλθεν πάλιν εἰς τὴν συναγωγήν. καὶ ἦν ἐκεῖ ἄνθρωπος ἐξηραμμένην ἔχων τὴν χεῖρα.


Luke 4:33 Καὶ ἐν τῇ συναγωγῇ ἦν ἄνθρωπος ἔχων πνεῦμα δαιμονίου ἀκαθάρτου καὶ ἀνέκραξεν φωνῇ μεγάλῃ·

Luke 6:6 Ἐγένετο δὲ ἐν ἑτέρῳ σαββάτῳ εἰσελθεῖν αὐτὸν εἰς τὴν συναγωγὴν καὶ διδάσκειν. καὶ ἦν ἄνθρωπος ἐκεῖ καὶ ἡ χεὶρ αὐτοῦ ἡ δεξιὰ ἦν ξηρά.

John 1:6 Ἐγένετο ἄνθρωπος, ἀπεσταλμένος παρὰ θεοῦ, ὄνομα αὐτῷ Ἰωάννης·

John 3:1 Ἦν δὲ ἄνθρωπος ἐκ τῶν Φαρισαίων, Νικόδημος ὄνομα αὐτῷ, ἄρχων τῶν Ἰουδαίων·

John 5:5 ἦν δέ τις ἄνθρωπος ἐκεῖ τριάκοντα [καὶ] ὀκτὼ ἔτη ἔχων ἐν τῇ ἀσθενείᾳ αὐτοῦ·
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MAubrey
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Re: "Prepositional Phrases" and Syntax

Post by MAubrey » July 27th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Jacob Rhoden wrote:
July 27th, 2018, 12:16 am
Thats really helpful, thanks for your reply.

I take it from your response that technically both are possible—because you had to provide argumentation to demonstrate why your reading of the passage (and mine) was the correct option.
I wouldn't even take the accordance diagrammer's analysis as even technically possible. There is no acceptable analysis wherein ἧν gets labeled as a predicate. I suppose you could say that in a technical sense, there's a difference of a opinion, but one of those opinions is just wrong.
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Jacob Rhoden
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Re: "Prepositional Phrases" and Syntax

Post by Jacob Rhoden » July 27th, 2018, 10:05 pm

MAubrey wrote:
July 27th, 2018, 1:18 pm
I wouldn't even take the accordance diagrammer's analysis as even technically possible.
Thanks, that is what I was trying to ascertain in the original post. It wasn't clear to me if there were two subjective options and the Accordance diagrammer saw it differently, or if one was incorrect.
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