Workbook Questions Clarification

The forum for those who still struggle with morphology, syntax, and idiom, or who wish to discuss basic questions about the meaning of Greek texts, syntax, or words.
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This is not a place for students to ask for the answers to their homework assignments. Users who do that may be banned.
RandallButh
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Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by RandallButh » September 27th, 2018, 6:40 am

You may have missed another point:

It is important to think, speak, write and communicate in the language in order to internalize it.
Yes, speaking, too, because it forces rapid processing of the language, which forces internalization, and because human reading and cognition goes through a "phonological loop"' in the brain on the way to word recognition and meaning synthesis.

The above is true for learning any language, even if the primary goal is only reading the language. The learner must internalize the vocabulary and category options available to a speaker/writer in order to read and appreciate the choices made in a specific text. Furthermore, internalization is necessary in order to view the words and categories of a language within itself. The meanings of words and categories in any language are always defined and in tension with the other possibilities in that specific language.

A corollary of the supporting principles can be stated in the negative: meaning is not determined by the translation of a term/category into another language.
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brandonray
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Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by brandonray » September 27th, 2018, 12:30 pm

Thank you for your response Dr. Buth! I agree completely that communicating in every way (speaking, writing, listening, etc.) with that language is a huge help to learning it. That's how I innately learned Tagalog growing up and the same with English--I never had to read a grammar.

My follow up question would be, since I don't live in Greece nor around a Greek-speaking community, how can I really interact and immerse with Greek in that way? I believe you have a "Living Koine" series that aids with that, but are there more (cheap) resources to do so?

Thank you for pointing out what was missing with my plan!
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Shirley Rollinson
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Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by Shirley Rollinson » September 27th, 2018, 8:26 pm

brandonray wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 12:36 pm

- - - snip snip - - -

If you can explain (as long or as short as you can) what better materials there are available for someone like me learning the language on their own, that would be greatly appreciated. I need all the help I can get. Thank you! :)
I don't say it's better, but it's an alternative - you're welcome to try the online textbook at
http://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook02/index.html
And always - read some of the GNT every day, even if you don't understand every word.
Hope this helps
Shirley Rollinson
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brandonray
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Joined: September 25th, 2018, 12:28 am

Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by brandonray » September 28th, 2018, 11:01 am

Thank you, Dr. Rollinson!
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Shirley Rollinson
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Joined: June 4th, 2011, 6:19 pm
Location: New Mexico
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Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by Shirley Rollinson » September 28th, 2018, 3:28 pm

brandonray wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 12:30 pm
Thank you for your response Dr. Buth! I agree completely that communicating in every way (speaking, writing, listening, etc.) with that language is a huge help to learning it. That's how I innately learned Tagalog growing up and the same with English--I never had to read a grammar.

My follow up question would be, since I don't live in Greece nor around a Greek-speaking community, how can I really interact and immerse with Greek in that way? I believe you have a "Living Koine" series that aids with that, but are there more (cheap) resources to do so?

Thank you for pointing out what was missing with my plan!
This brings up a fundamental question, of why anyone starts to learn Koine or Biblical Greek rather than Modern Greek -
surely it's not that we want to communicate with Greek speakers, but that we want to read the GNT and let the GNT communicate to us. And I doubt the GNT cares whether or not we speak like Paul or John or Peter.
So if someone has to learn alone, without the help of interaction with other Koine speakers, then we do the best we can, maybe listening to Youtube videos - but essentially we end up 'speaking' our own dialect of Koine. And it really doesn't matter until we meet up with other Koine readers, and then adjustment of pronunciation, accents, etc, can take place.
Just my two denarii,
Shirley Rollinson
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Adam Olean
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Joined: May 21st, 2018, 3:44 pm

Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by Adam Olean » September 28th, 2018, 4:09 pm

brandonray wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 12:30 pm
Thank you for your response Dr. Buth! I agree completely that communicating in every way (speaking, writing, listening, etc.) with that language is a huge help to learning it. That's how I innately learned Tagalog growing up and the same with English--I never had to read a grammar.

My follow up question would be, since I don't live in Greece nor around a Greek-speaking community, how can I really interact and immerse with Greek in that way? I believe you have a "Living Koine" series that aids with that, but are there more (cheap) resources to do so?

Thank you for pointing out what was missing with my plan!
Hi Brandon,

I would give a heart amen to everything that Randall said and would recommend Biblical Language Center's Live Video Classes. As someone who has invested many hours reading and listening through most of the Tanakh in Biblical Hebrew—including some portions many, many times—and has begun building fluency in Modern Hebrew, I am benefiting tremendously from their courses. Over the Summer I took Living Biblical Hebrew, Part A as a three-week intensive. Now this fall I'm following it up with Living Biblical Hebrew, Part B. Yes, it costs money. But all of the Living Language materials are included for each respective course. They've also been working hard on improving and supplementing those materials with additional resources for an online environment. The quality of the materials is excellent (and only improving); the courses are highly effective; and their instructors are both knowledgeable and a whole lot of fun to learn with.

I actually met one of their instructors, Scott McQuinn, who has helped develop their online materials, shortly after he returned from BLC's Summer Intensive in Israel almost seven years ago. That was well before he was working for them. You'd be hard pressed to find for a better instructor. And yet, this semester Liza has been just as delightful and helpful as Scott! So I'd say that if you have the means, desire, and opportunity to learn with them, go for it (or at least seriously consider it)! Shortcuts are very costly in my experience, and turn out not to be shortcuts after all. Personally, I plan to finish all of their Biblical Hebrew courses and then follow it up with Koine Greek.

If you're ever interested, be sure to send me a private message before registering.

(Psst, Randall. You can put the check in the mail! :P )
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Adam Olean
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Joined: May 21st, 2018, 3:44 pm

Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by Adam Olean » September 28th, 2018, 4:38 pm

By the way, Brandon. You could sign up for BLC's free trial version of Living Koine Greek Part 1 Online. It won't include the full Live Video Class experience, but it'll at least get you started and give you a taste of Part 1.

https://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/blc-online/
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RandallButh
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Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by RandallButh » September 29th, 2018, 2:26 am

This brings up a fundamental question, of why anyone starts to learn Koine or Biblical Greek rather than Modern Greek -
surely it's not that we want to communicate with Greek speakers, but that we want to read the GNT and let the GNT communicate to us.
These are basic questions that are often mentioned in the academy (NT Greek users, researchers, students, professors). It is often assumed that since we want to read the NT that reading is sufficient for learning. Unfortunately, humans aren't built that way. As mentioned, there is a phonological loop in the brains of READERS. It must be built up. And the ability to process the language quickly, as in true reading, to think and feel the language, requires using the language in rapid communication. Again, that is the way that humans are built.

Back to the first question. Modern Greek is not related to Koine Greek in the tight, close way that modern Hebrew is related to biblical Hebrew. The morphhology of modern Greek (i.e., the shapes of words) differs from Koine (e.g., some imperfects have 's' in the endings!), while modern Hebrew relates 100% to biblical morphology. Yes, modern Hebrew forms go directly to biblical Hebrew, 1 to 1, practically speaking 100%. Secondly, when Hebrew students learn to speak modern Hebrew fluently they often discover that what they called "knowing" Koine Greek wasn't actually knowing the language, at least not the way the second language users learn and use any other language. If they had "learned biblical Hebrew before modern, they find out that they hadn't really learned biblical Hebrew, either. See the Aaron Hornkohl paper on the 4220Foundation website.
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Adam Olean
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Joined: May 21st, 2018, 3:44 pm

Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by Adam Olean » October 2nd, 2018, 8:05 pm

RandallButh wrote:
September 29th, 2018, 2:26 am
See the Aaron Hornkohl paper on the 4220Foundation website.
I think that this is the article you referred to: Training Bible Translators in Israel: The Value of Modern Hebrew for Mastering Biblical Hebrew. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

https://iblt.ac/wp-content/uploads/2016 ... Hebrew.pdf
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RandallButh
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Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Workbook Questions Clarification

Post by RandallButh » October 3rd, 2018, 2:54 am

זה הוא

εὕρηκας αὐτό.

ἀναγνόντι τί σοι δοκεῖ;
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