Luke 6:27 εχθρους

Semantic Range, Lexicography, and other approaches to word meaning - in general, or for particular words.
Daniel Semler
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Joined: February 18th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Re: Luke 6:27 εχθρους

Post by Daniel Semler » December 21st, 2019, 5:27 pm

Jean Putmans wrote:
December 21st, 2019, 1:28 pm
Thanks Barry,

the semantic part of εχθροσ is clear;

εχθρουσ υμων ???

would υμων turn into an Object or into a Subject in the explanation: "The ones that hate you" or "The ones you hate" or are both possible?

Regards

Jean
In some haste, but this is what BDAG has to say, noting this passage in particular:

β. w. gen. of the pers. who is the obj. of the enmity: people Mt 5:43f; Lk 6:27, 35 (cp. Ox 1224 fgm. 2 recto I, 2; Delph. commands: SIG 1286 I, 15; 16 [III BC] φίλοις εὐνόει, ἐχθροὺς ἀμύνου; Sextus 213 εὔχου τοὺς ἐχθροὺς εὐεργετεῖν; Pittacus in Diog. L. 1, 78 φίλον μὴ λέγειν κακῶς, ἀλλὰ μηδὲ ἐχθρόν; Epict. 3, 22, 54 as a principle of the Cynic philosopher: δερόμενον φιλεῖν [δεῖ] αὐτοὺς τοὺς δέροντας . . . ὡς ἀδελφόν ‘while enduring a flogging he must think as a brother and love his very floggers’; Vi. Aesop. G 110 P.; Hierocles 7 p. 430 οὐδεὶς ἐχθρὸς τῷ σπουδαίῳ . . . μισεῖ οὐδένα ἄνθρωπον . . . φιλία πρὸς πάντας ἀνθρώπους.—HHaas, Idee u. Ideal d. Feindesliebe in d. ausserchr. Welt 1927; MWaldmann, D. Feindesliebe in d. ant. Welt u. im Christent. 1902; TBirt. Chr. Welt 29, 1915, 475–83; FKattenbusch, StKr 89, 1916, 1–70; PFiebig, ibid. 91, 1918, 30–64; 305f; JYates, Theology 44, ’42, 48–51; Betz, SM 301–13); Mt 10:36; 13:25; Lk 1:71; 19:27; Ro 12:20 (Pr 25:21); Gal 4:16; Rv 11:5, 12; GJs 6:3. God or Christ as the object of enmity Mt 22:44; Mk 12:36; Lk 20:43; Ac 2:35; Hb 1:13; 10:13; B 12:10; 1 Cl 36:5 (all Ps 109:1). ἐχθρὸς τ. θεοῦ Js 4:4 (cp. Aeschyl., Prom. 120 ὁ Διὸς ἐ.; Just. D. 93, 4 ὡς ἐ. θεοῦ).

BDAG, s.v. “ἐχθρός,” 419.
https://accordance.bible/link/read/BDAG#11638

Thx
D
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Jean Putmans
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Re: Luke 6:27 εχθρους

Post by Jean Putmans » December 22nd, 2019, 2:24 am

Daniel,

thank You for the answer.

But this β-item in BDAG belongs to the b-part of the lemma, where BDAG addresses the substantival meaning of εχθρος; there I understand the gen. as an object-genitive, because in fact the substantival meaning is some in-between: enemy = some one you hate and/or someone that hates you.

My problem is the adjectival meaning, that is separated into two groupings 1: someone hates you; 2: you hate someone.

Can the genitive υμων then (in the adjectival use) be an Object-gen. or (also) a Subject-genitive or both?

Regards,

Jean
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Jean Putmans
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gotischebibel.blogspot.com

Daniel Semler
Posts: 181
Joined: February 18th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Re: Luke 6:27 εχθρους

Post by Daniel Semler » December 22nd, 2019, 7:22 pm

Jean Putmans wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 2:24 am
Daniel,

thank You for the answer.

But this β-item in BDAG belongs to the b-part of the lemma, where BDAG addresses the substantival meaning of εχθρος; there I understand the gen. as an object-genitive, because in fact the substantival meaning is some in-between: enemy = some one you hate and/or someone that hates you.

My problem is the adjectival meaning, that is separated into two groupings 1: someone hates you; 2: you hate someone.

Can the genitive υμων then (in the adjectival use) be an Object-gen. or (also) a Subject-genitive or both?

Regards,

Jean
Hi Jean,

I don't see BDAG or LSJ mentioning a possibility of a genitive indicating the subject (source of the enmity). I scanned a bunch of entries in various texts and where the genitive occurs (in a vast majority of cases with an articular substantival ἐχθρός) it appears to indicate the object of the enmity - "enemies of you" roughly speaking.

And here in this passage I would naturally read this as substantival not adjectival. BDAG at least seems to believe that the genitive being the object of the enmity is the only choice in this case. They do not mention a gen. of the person or thing as the source of the enmity under ἐχθρός.

The Goth translation (I have no Goth) that you render here in English seems to accord in sense with the substantival adjective as it is commonly rendered. And thus they appear to have rendered a substantival sense in a somewhat verbal form. Looking for true adjectival forms there is a possible example here also mentioned in BDAG:
“ὁ δὲ ἔφη αὐτοῖς· ἐχθρὸς ἄνθρωπος τοῦτο ἐποίησεν. οἱ δὲ δοῦλοι λέγουσιν αὐτῷ· θέλεις οὖν ἀπελθόντες συλλέξωμεν αὐτά;”
(Μαθθαῖον 13·28 GNT28-T)
https://accordance.bible/link/read/GNT28-T#Matt._13:28
which BDAG describes this way:
2. pert. to being hostile, hating, hostile, act. (Pind., Hdt. et al.; LXX)
a. adj. (X., An. 1, 3, 12; 20; PGM 36, 144; Sir 36:9; Jos., Ant. 11, 27; Just., D. 93, 2 ἐν συνειδήσεσιν ἐ.; Mel., P. 16, 110 al.) ἐ. ἄνθρωπος (Horapollo 2, 35) Mt 13:28. The position of ἐ. before ἄ. (difft. Esth 7:6) suggests that ἐ. is an adj. here, giving the sense hostile person; but ἄ. by itself could also serve to emphasize indefiniteness: some enemy = any enemy at all (s. EKlostermann, Hdb. ad loc.). Then this example would also belong to b.
b. subst. (Hes., Pind.; PEdg 14 [=Sb 6720], 18 [257/256 BC]; LXX, En 103:12; Test12Patr, EpArist, Philo, Joseph.; SibOr 3, 727) ὁ ἐ. the (personal) enemy.

BDAG, s.v. “ἐχθρός,” 419.
https://accordance.bible/link/read/BDAG#11634
Daniel 3:32 seems to provide another example:

“καὶ παρέδωκας ἡμᾶς εἰς χεῖρας ἐχθρῶν ἡμῶν ἀνόμων καὶ ἐχθίστων ἀποστατῶν καὶ βασιλεῖ ἀδίκῳ καὶ πονηροτάτῳ παρὰ πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν.”
(Δανιήλ 3·32 LXX1)
https://accordance.bible/link/read/LXX1#Dan._3:32

though I would go with 'hostile' here I think.

But that said I am not finding what I would call an adjectival use with a genitive of subject to examine in the texts I've looked at so far.

Thx
D
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Jean Putmans
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Re: Luke 6:27 εχθρους

Post by Jean Putmans » December 23rd, 2019, 1:21 am

Dear Daniel,

thanks for the great explanation and your search for examples.

As the gothic translator in the 4th century here deviated from his usual translation of εχθρος, one has to search for reasons.

If one cannot find a good reason, one might say, the Gothic translator made a mistake.

"But that said I am not finding what I would call an adjectival use with a genitive of subject to examine in the texts I've looked at so far."

I take that, for the time being, as the answer: The Gothic (deviating) translation can well be explained on the basis of the Greek Text.

Regards

Jean
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Jean Putmans
Netherlands
gotischebibel.blogspot.com

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