[B-Greek] HQELON OUN LABEIN AUTON EIS TO PLOION Jn 6:21

bwmeyers at toast.net bwmeyers at toast.net
Tue Jun 3 10:03:39 EDT 2008


On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 00:03:37 +0100, Tony Pope wrote:

>
>To Bob Meyers,
>
>My copy of Alford, marked "new Edition 1880", says (Vol 1 p.758):
>

Ok, perhaps I had checked Alford on this passage too hurriedly, and
failed to mentally shift into low gear which is required in reading
him.  But I wasn't trying to deliberately misrepresent him.  His
opening words on the passage were, "There surely can be no question in
the mind of an unprejudiced reader, that it is John's {more
importantly, God's - BWM} intention to relate a miracle . . ."

In view of John 20:31, shouldn't this be the first major consideration
for every narrative in John, especially those involving the absolute
EGW EIMI verses (except 9:9, of course)?   And it certainly is not,
with the vast majority of "scholars;" but instead they seem to me to
have an agenda of the exact opposite.  

It seems to me that  _all_ of the EGW EIMI passages in John, without
any apparent predicate (4:26, 6:20, 8:24,28,58, 13:19, and the three
times repeated (rather "strangely" so) in John 18), are filled with
supernatural accompaniments appropriate to claims of Messiaship ---
and even more, of Deity.  The three in John 8 may seem to be an
exception?  What about the sequel after they, having the Lord Jesus
surrounded and about to stone Him, how He, with His disciples yet,
"hid himself, ... passed by ..."?  And in ch. 9, "as they were passing
by, saw a man who had been blind from his birth" --- now how did these
briefly visiting Galileans to Jerusalem all know that?  And on and on
and on with one miracle on top of another in their dialog, even before
the healing miracle took place.

>They were afraid : -- 

I can vouch for the truth of that remark, after reading of similar
occurrences in the Bermuda Triangle.

>but on being reassured by His voice, 
>they were willing to take Him into the 
>ship ; and upon their doing so, the ship in a comparatively short time (or perhaps _immediately, by 
>miracle_, but I prefer the other) was AT THE LAND TO WHICH THEY HAD BEEN GOING (my caps --- BWM), 

These are the other words which would seem completely trite, as well
as EUQEWS (others have shown possibly not; but it very much also
remains, at least, "possibly so" --- at least most of my Bible
versions take it that way).  With a several mile trip over water, in a
dark night (or maybe He also made the moon appear? - fine with me)
isn't John carefully saying that they arrived at a pinpoint
destination along miles of shoreline with obviously paying little to
no attention to the intricate navigation which would be required?  

>viz. by the storm 
>ceasing, and the ship making smooth way (EKOPASEN hO ANEMOS, Matt., Mark).
>
>Alford certainly believed there was a miracle, but that was in the stilling of the storm. As regards 
>6:21, he states his preference for "the ship making smooth way", i.e. a smooth passage for the rest 
>of the journey as opposed to the hard rowing they had had before. The EUQEWS is surely not trite, it 
>plays its part in the clause in contrast to the description of a raging sea in 6:18 and the 
>extraordinary sight of 6:19, marked by a rare use in John of the particle TE, signalling tension.
>
>EUQEWS, as Iver rightly noted, need not imply that something happens instantaneously. See Matt. 
>13:5.
>
>Tony Pope
>
>--------------------
>
>Bob Meyers wrote:
>...
>A number of my commentators, including Alford,  argue for miracle
>intent by John.
>...
>And it seems to me, when it was implied that the boat was something
>like 3+ miles from shore, probably in the middle of the night, when
>John carefully includes the details EUQEWS and GHS EIS HN UPHGON in v.
>21, --- what would be the purpose of these seemingly otherwise utterly
>trite words, if not there to magnify and elaborate the miracle
>involved?
>

Bob Meyers



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