[B-Greek] Here we go again (Luke 22:70)
Mark Lightman
lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 29 21:03:19 EDT 2010
"There you go again..."
Ronald Reagan, October, 1980.
Blue wrote:
<maybe Luke is actually
having Jesus reply, *You speak, because I am [he].>
Hi, Blue,
If true, this would be a type of pun on the word ὅτι. Your argument would be
stronger if John were the writer, where these types of double meanings are more
common. Joking around with people who are thinking about putting you to death
is a Greek tradition as old as Socrates, so maybe Luke is having a little fun
here.
Mark L
Φωσφορος
FWSFOROS MARKOS
________________________________
From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 10:22:24 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Here we go again (Luke 22:70)
On Thu Aug 11 06:53:09 EDT 2005 Carl Conrad wrote:
Here we go again: I'm not complaining, just commenting. Seems to me
this is a question that won't ever be resolved to everyone's
satisfaction. Some are fully confident that they know exactly what
this means while others (myself included) can only admit to endless
puzzlement. My own inclination (not by any means a firm conclusion)
is that the ambiguity is intentional.
This was found in the archives. For those who may not know, (I did not know
until Carl did one of his helpful posts), the archives can be found at
http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/index.html where a google search can be
done. It has a wealth of information.
Carl was commenting on the thread entitled Luke 22:70 & 23:3 'you say'? I
agree with him that this question probably will never be resolved to everyone’s
satisfaction. (Here comes the *Here we go again*) Nevertheless, I had one final
comment/question. : > )
LUKE 22:70 EIPAN DE PANTES• SU OUN EI hO hUIOS TOU QEOU; hO DE PROS AUTOUS EFH•
hUMEIS LEGETE hOTI EGW EIMI.
I realize that after verbs of knowing and saying hOTI normally introduces an
indirect statement. However, sometimes it seems, even after a verb of saying,
hOTI is used to introduce a causal phrase.
NEHEMIAH 6:8 KAI APESTEILA PROS AUTON LEGWN OUK EGENHQH hWS hOI LOGOI hOUTOI
hOUS *SU LEGEIS hOTI APO KARDIAS SOU SU YEUDHi AUTOUS.*
Cf. also I Maccabees 13:18; Jer. 1:6 and Gen. 3:17.
If this is true, and, indeed, there are some exceptions, maybe Luke is actually
having Jesus reply, *You speak, because I am [he].
In other words, Jesus is indirectly affirming that the reason why his accusers
are able to question and speak to him in such an authoritative manner, (being
part of the Sanhedrin), is because he was indeed the Christ, the Son of the
Blessed, the one who would sit at the right hand of the power of God. It was he
who gave them the authority they possessed; they thought they were the ones
possessing the power and authority, but Jesus was declaring to them their power
and authority was derived from him. He was the one who actually gave them the
right to sit in Moses’ chair and *speak.*
MATTHEW 23:2-3 LEGWN, EPI THS MWSEWS KAQEDRAS EKAQISAN hOI GRAMMATEIS KAI hOI
FARISAIOI• PANTA OUN hOSA EAN EIPWSIN hUMIN POIHSATE KAI THREITE, KATA
DE TA ERGA AUTWN MH POIEITE• LEGOUSIN GAR KAI OU POIOUSIN.
If this is what Jesus is saying, it seems it would be a similar concept spoken
to Pilate in John 19:10-11. Obviously, they would take offence at such a
declaration.
I realize all the other occurrences of the exact phrase hUMEIS LEGETE hOTI in
the GNT do not introduce a casual phrase (Jn. 4:20,35;8:54; 9:19; 10:36),
however, perhaps, this might be one of the exceptions.?
Sincerely,
Blue Harris
P.S. I noticed that the Clementine Vulgate 1598 gives Luke 22:70 as the
following – Dixerunt autem omnes: Tu ergo es Filius Dei? Qui ait: Vos dicitis,
quia ego sum.
From my almost non-existent knowledge of Latin, it seems quia can also be used
in the sense of *that;* if this is so, why would they put a comma after
dicitis? By use of the comma are they are also indicating, (in their opinion),
that quia might also be understood in the casual sense of *because?* Is this
their way of bringing ambiguity into the text?
This seems to be the only edition of the Vulgate that I can find with a comma
after dicitis.
---
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