Re: multiple ascensions (all LXX uses of hAPTW)

From: Steven Cox (scox@ns1.chinaonline.com.cn.net)
Date: Thu Jan 29 1998 - 08:57:03 EST


        Hi Ben
        Sorry I won't be able to get my hands back on Bauer
        until Chinese New Year holidays are over next week.
        But I remember looking at Bauer on hAPTW before and
        thinking the evidence for 'hold on to' was a bit
        thin on examples from Jewish writers. That's why I'm
        interested in what examples Hendrickson or Westcott
        can offer?

        It seems to me that no NT nor LXX use supports the
        range of hAPTW to include 'cling'. (I've listed all
        LXX uses of hAPTW below).

        Also the Vulgate has "noli me tangere" which indicates
        that Jerome didn't have a problem in John 20:17. (I'm
        sure if he had he would have rendered "noli me tenere")
         
        For that matter if Christ meant 'hold on to' then why
        not use KATECW (cf.Luke4:42), EPILAMBANOMAI, or KRATEW?

        Regards
        Steven

Gen 3:3 touch fruit
20:4-6 touch, touch woman
26:11 touch him (bother him)
32:25,32 touch hip
Ex 19:12,13 touch mountain
29:37 touch altar
Lev5:2,3,3 touch unclean thing
6:18,27 touch unclean thing
<snip> touch unclean thing
Nu etc.
<snip> touch unclean thing
Deu14:8 touch carcass
Jos 9:19 touch them
Jud 6:21 touch sacrifice
Ruth2:9 touch woman
ISa 6:9 his hand touch us
10:26 touch heart
2Sa5:8 strike with dagger
14:10 touch (bother) the baby
IKi 6:27 touch wings
19:5,7 touch, touch
2Ki 13:21 touch Elisha's bones
15:5 touched Azariah with leprosy
1Ch16:22 touch (bother) my annointed ones
2Ch3:11,11 touch wing
Job1:11 put forth hand and touch possessions
1:12 touch not Job = ALL' AUTOU MH hAYHi
1:19 wind struck four corners of house
2:5 touch his flesh and bones
4:5 trouble touches you
5:19 seventh harm not touch you
19:21 hand of God has struck me
20:6 sacrifice touch clouds
31:7 touch bribes with hands
Ps 103/4:32 touch mountain
Ps 104/5:15 touch (bother?) my annointed ones
143/4:5 touch mountain
Pro 6:29 touch woman
9:17 touch and enjoy "secret food"
Isa 6:7 touch your lips
52:11 touch unclean thing
Jer1:9 touch mouth
4:10,18 sword touch soul, wickedness touch heart
12:14 touch inheritance
31:9 touch Moab with plague
31:32 vine cross sea and touch cities of Iazer
Lam4:14 touch garment
15 don't touch unclean = MH hAPTESQE
Eze 17:10 wind strikes vine
41:6 not touch walls
42:14,14 not touch garments, touch the lay-people
Dan 8:5 without touching the ground
8:18 angel touched me
9:21 angel touched me
10:10,16 touched me, touched my lips
10:18 touched me
Mic1:9 plague touched gate of Jerusalem
Hag2:12 touch sacrifice,
13 touch dead body
Zec2:8,8 touches you touches the apple of his eye

At 19:41 98/01/28, Ben Crick wrote:
>On Wed 28 Jan 98 (21:51:04 +0800), scox@chinaonline.com.cn.net wrote:
>>Ê What examples of this use of MH MOU hAPTOU do Hendriksen or
>>Ê Westcott cite? Any from LXX?
>>Ê
>>Ê Myself I don't have the problem with a reading consistent
>>Ê with other NT uses of hAPTOMAI. (Yes the idea of objecting
>>Ê to being touched is odd, sure, but so is Luke 8:44-47...)
>
> Hullo Steven,
>
> As I said, I don't have Westcott on the Greek text to hand. My BAG lexicon
> has a lengthy entry s.v. hAPTW, hAPTOMAI. It says "... MH MOU hAPTOU /stop
> clinging to me!/ [longish list of authorities snipped] J 20:17...". If you
> don't have BAG try Strong's 680 and 681.
>
> I don't think Jesus ascended to the Father until Acts 1:9; but I have heard
> attempts to discern a multiple ascension based on John 20:17.
>
> In Jacob's vision of the Ladder set up from earth to heaven he saw angels
> ascending and descending on it (Genesis 28:12). John 1:51 says "...ye shall
> see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the
> Son of man". I take this to mean that Jesus is the Ladder by which we may
> ascend into heaven; but some might allege that this 'ascending and
> descending' could point to a multiple ascension/descent? No; I don't think
> so.
>--
> Revd Ben Crick, BA CF
> <ben.crick@argonet.co.uk>
> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK)
> http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm



This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:39:00 EDT