From: wross (wross@farmerstel.com)
Date: Fri Dec 11 1998 - 10:02:41 EST
{Bill}
>Hi. This is Bill Ross. I have been away for many months ("stumbling on the
sides of seven misty mountains").
{Philip}
I know how you feel, I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a
graveyard. (but I think I should point out that it's 12 misty mountians,
it's seven sad foress.)
{Bill}
Mountains 8-12 looked pretty boring, so I skipped 'em :)
{Bill}
>* is the fact that the first phrase is in the positive a choice? Could it
have been said, as in the KJV, "no prophecy", instead of "every
prophecy...is not", or is that pretty much how you say it?
{Philip}
What translation uses "every" for this verse? I checked several (NIV, KJV,
RSV, ASV, New Century, New Living Trans. NASB) and none had "every
prophecy," all had "no prophecy."
I don't think that you could translate it as a positive statement because
PASA is negated, Ck out BAG, I am on page 631 inthe 2nd ed., I-A-a, OU + PAS
= nothing, rather than not everything.
{Bill}
In Matt 7:21, Jesus uses OU PAS to say "Not everyone saying to me Lord,
Lord, will enter into the kingdom of heaven. Obviously he is not saying
"None saying to me Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of heaven".
Please see my earlier post for the use of PASA with a noun but no article.
{Bill}
>* shouldn't GINETAI be translated "is becoming", as opposed to "has come"?
{Philip}
Present Middle Indicative, 3S GINOMAI can mean something like come to be,
become, originate (to quote BAG.)
{Bill}
So we can reject the NIV past tense "came about", correct? It is present
tense. And there is nothing imperative here, such as "don't interpret". It
is being presented as a fact - indicative - as in "this is how it works".
{Bill}
>* would anyone suggest a translation of the hapax EPILUSEWS other than
interpretation? How about "unloosing"? What about
"resolving-the-interpretation-of"? What about "unknotting-the-meaning-of"?
{Philip}
[Snip] A better source for the meaning of this word is Hermas Similitude,
for references ck BAG on PARABOLH, there are a ton of occurances of the
word, all meaning "interpretation or meaning," in this case of a parable.
{Bill}
Thanks for the history. That is helpful.
{Bill}
>The present tense of GINETAI makes me wonder if Peter is referring to a
present activity of receiving revelation by meditation, allowing the Holy
Spirit to "unknot the meaning of" the prophecies of Scripture, since he has
just told them that they would do well to listen until the day star
arises...
{Philip}
I think that you are right about this verse apply to the scriptures, but you
might want to check how GRAFH is used in the NT, I think that it refers to
the scriptures in general, I don't know if this can mean only "prophetic"
scriptures.
{Bill}
The complete context of the verse is:
1:20 touto prwton ginwskontev oti pasa profhteia grafhv idiav epilusewv ou
ginetai
Also, in the previous verse he is also specifically addressing a prophetic
word:
1:19 kai ecomen bebaioteron ton profhtikon logon w kalwv poieite prosecontev
wv lucnw fainonti en aucmhrw topw ewv ou hmera diaugash kai fwsforov
anateilh en taiv kardiaiv umwn
{Philip}
I think there is a contrast between the present day (to Peter) prophet that
claims to have come by their revelation through personal reflection, and the
"prophets of old" who were moved by the Spirit to prophesy.
{Bill}
I take it that by "personal reflection" you are alluding to IDIAS, and
attributing it to the modern prophet. But it is feminine, just like
profhteia grafhv, which immediately precedes it and I'm convinced that it
reflects there. I also take it that by "revelation" you are alluding to
epilusewv. But all believers are to be receiving this kind of revelation
from God (Eph 1). This practice is actually being enjoined in the previous
verse (which verse 20 is written in support of):
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye
take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn,
and the day star arise in your hearts.
I think that Peter is writing because he wants the believers to be equipped
for growth after he is gone, and is doing what he can to teach them how to
meditate Scripture and arm themselves thereby against false teachers. This
is akin to John's approach when he says "you have an unction from the Holy
One":
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of
us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they
might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because
ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
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