Re: Ign. Eph. 15:3

From: Bart Ehrman (behrman@email.unc.edu)
Date: Tue Jan 04 2000 - 12:16:29 EST


   Thanks for the suggestion! So are you taking hOPER to mean "since"?

-- Bart Ehrman
   University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Bill Rodgers wrote:

> Bart and Carl:  I would like to make two points:
>
> l.  You may well be right  about hINATI.    This is certainly what has happened with
> GIATI in modern Greek.
>
> 2.  But I think I might still read it another way.  The full sentence reads:  PANTA
> OUN POIWMEN WS AUTOU EN hMIN KATOIKOUNTOS, hINA WMEN AUTOU NAOI KAI AUTOS EN hMIN
> QEOS hMWN, OPER KAI ESTIN KAI FANHSETAI PRO PROSWPOU hMWN, EX hWN DIKAIWS AGAPWMEN
> AUTON.
>
> I would translate: "Since he dwells within us, let us do all things so
> that we may be his temples and he may be our God within us, and since
> he is and will be present before us, by these means let us rightly
> love him."
>
> I see "PANTA" as the antecedent to "EX hWN,"  and read both POIWMEN AND AGAPWMEN as
> hortatory.
>
> Bill Rodgers
>  
>
> "Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
>
> > I should add here, for what it's worth, that when I saw James Ernest's note
> > on this I felt instinctively that he was right. Of course, as Bart says,
> > one would like to know something is right by something stronger than
> > instinct. What occurred to me is that DI' hWN is probably one of those
> > phrases comparable to Latin QUAPROPTER or QUAMOBREM or DE QUA CAUSA which
> > tend to become single words or phrases with a single sense, all synonymous
> > in the sense of "therefore." There are so many such compounds; I recall an
> > interesting thread a couple years back on hINATI = hINA TI.
> >
> > At 8:37 AM -0500 1/4/00, Bart Ehrman wrote:
> > >   It appears to be taken this way by other translators, but the
> > >commentators pass over it without a note (making me think that there's
> > >something obvious here that I'm missing), and I haven't been able to find
> > >anything quite like it anywhere (which probably means it's all over the
> > >map).  If you do run across a clear parallel, let me know.  (There's
> > >something kind of *similar* in the preceding chapter, btw: "Thus who claim
> > >to belong to Christ will be seen through the things they do" DI hWN
> > >PRASSOUSIN OFQHSONTiAI).
> > >
> > >   Thanks,
> > >
> > >-- Bart
> > >
> > >Bart D. Ehrman
> > >University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, James Ernest wrote:
> > >
> > >> Don't koine texts commonly use phrase with hWN (? ex hwn, di hwn) as
> > >> rough equivalents for "therefore" without any concern for the historical
> > >> identify of hWN as a relative pronoun that should have an antecedent?  I
> > >> don't have time to look this up properly, so don't skewer me too badly
> > >> if I'm just being dumb here....  I would try checking BDF and maybe some
> > >> searches in electronic texts.
> >
> > Carl W. Conrad
> > Department of Classics/Washington University
> > One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
> > Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
> > cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
> > WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
> >
> > ---
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