RE: Mark 15:34

From: Bill Ross (wross@farmerstel.com)
Date: Thu Apr 20 2000 - 17:41:45 EDT


<x-charset iso-8859-1><Roseann>
...I have the Bible translated from the Peshitta by George M. Lamsa
(Aramaic) and that verse, Mark 15:34, reads: "And at the ninth hour, Jesus
cried out with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, lemana, shabakthani! which
means, My God, my God, for this I was spared!" Footnote at "which means" -
used by Mark to explain translation from one Aramaic dialect to another.
I've wondered why the difference between "for this I was spared" and "why
have you forsaken me?"

<Bill>
I had a secret reason for wanting to know the nuances of the words and now I
am excited to see that they confirm my thinking (at least to my
satisfaction).

What I believe Jesus was asking the Father was not "why did you go away when
I needed you" which raises absurdities about Christ being separated from the
Father (which we are told elsewhere explicitly, never happened).

What He was asking was "why am I still alive!" (Aramaic) which translates
appropriately "why was I left [alive] here in the lurch?"

So, with that, I'll include what I take the whole interchange to really be
about:

***************************************************************************

Memorandum

To: To Whom It May Concern
From: Bill Ross
Subject: Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane.
Date: March 12, 1997
After spending some time meditating the account of Jesus' prayer in
Gethsemane I believe I have "cracked the case" of the apparent lapse of
Jesus' knowledge of the will of God and a discrepancy of wills.
Our God-given faculties immediately recoil at the concept that Jesus was
praying that he not have to die on the cross. He determined this with his
father in eternity past and was incarnated for this cause. It seemed
plausible that this was a prayer only for show, to make an example, but this
was a weak explanation to me.
Here is what I found, not from consulting commentaries, but from the Word:
… Jesus said (BRT=Bill Ross Translation): "Completely grieved is my soul
until I am dead" (Mark 14:34). In other words, until Jesus died, he would be
miserable.
… The narrator says Jesus "prayed that if possible, the hour [period of
time] pass by". In other words, that his death be quick. [As we have
discussed, it was only necessary that Christ shed his blood and die in order
to atone for our sins. The other characteristics of the crucifixion were for
other purposes.]
… Jesus then prayed: "Remove [carry beside] this cup [small clay vessel] off
of me" (Mark 14:36 BRT). In other words, "take me out of this body and let
me die!"
… Mark records later: "And becoming evening already, since it was the
preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath, Joseph of Arimathea came,
an honorable councillor, who himself was also waiting for the kingdom of
God. Taking courage, he went and begged the body of Jesus. And Pilate
wondered if He was already dead. And calling the centurion near, he asked
him if He died long ago. And knowing from the centurion, he granted the body
to Joseph." HIS PRAYER WAS ANSWERED! That this was an unnaturally quick
death (6 hours) is further seen in John's gospel (John 19:31-38), where
Jesus' legs were not broken (to arrest breathing), but a soldier did pierce
his side (to do "due diligence").
About the apparent limitation of Jesus' omniscience regarding the Father's
will regarding how long he would be on the cross:
… When Jesus was relating the events relating to the second coming he said:
"But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, neither the angels of
Heaven, [nor the Son,] except the Father of me only" (Matthew 24:36). [Note:
"nor the Son" is debated text.]. Later, there is another, undisputed
reference to the Father reserving these things to himself: "It is not for
you to know the times or the seasons which the Father has put in his own
authority." (Acts 1:7). It seems that the Father decided that, at least
while Jesus was on earth as a man, he would either not have, or would not
use, this reserved detailed information.
… "not what I will, but what you will" (Mark 14:36). If, therefore, "because
of conscience toward God, we bear grief, suffering unjustly" (I Peter 2:19),
while suffering patiently, we realize "Christ left behind an example" (I
Peter 2:21), who "gave himself over [with this prayer] to Him judging
righteously" (I Peter 2:23).
Further, we see many interesting areas of tension regarding time, the will
of the Father, and believers:
… God is described as "longsuffering" in his delay, not slow concerning his
promise. This is so "that all [of the elect?] should come to repentance."
(II Peter 3:9). Therefore, we should "rush the day" (II Peter 3:12) [by
"redeeming the time"]. The saints pray, "How long" in Revelation and "Come
quickly". Jesus says that he will "shorten the days" for our sakes. Jesus
told the disciples to pray that their flight be not in winter.
… Paul is torn between going home and staying, but is persuaded that it is
better for the believers if he stays longer (Philippians 1:19-26).
… Simeon prayed "Now You are letting your servant depart in peace" (Luke
2:29) because he had seen "peace upon Israel" (Psalm 128:6).
Regarding the appropriateness of praying "If it be thy will...":
… We see that Jesus appeared not to know the will of God in this detail and
rightly committed his cause to Abba.
… James affirms that God will give us wisdom if we ask and chides
wishy-washy prayer in James 1:6-8 as ineffectual. Effectual prayer follows
the specific, persistent and earnest prayer of Elijah (James 5:16-18).
… The Hebrews had plenty of examples of faith (Hebrews 6:12, Hebrews 11,
Hebrews 12:1-2, Hebrews 13:7,8) but were being lazy and unbelieving. The
author admonishes them to "imitate those who through faith and patience
inherit the promises" (Hebrews 6:12). He pointed out that God wanted us to
be SURE of his promises so he confirmed them with an oath, and made Jesus
the guarantee (Hebrews 6:13-20, 7:22)
There are exceptions that keep details of the will of God hidden, such as
the times and seasons, but Paul affirms that: "Now we have received, not the
spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the
things that have been freely given to us by God." (I Cor 2:12). In fact,
Paul asks rhetorically, "He that spared not his own Son, but freely gave him
up for us all, how shall he not with Him freely give us all things?" (Romans
8:32).
I believe that this is a better exposition of the Gethsemane prayer than is
usually offered. I hope you agree.
At your service,

****************************************************************************
**

So, I see the Aramaic reflecting the same question: "Why am I still here?"

Bill Ross

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