[b-greek] IDIOMS

From: Wayne Leman (wleman@mcn.net)
Date: Wed Dec 27 2000 - 00:46:27 EST


Phil responded:

>
> > She has a green thumb.
> > He kicked the bucket.
> > Your eyes are bigger than your stomach.
>
> As you rightly explain, these are more "figures of speech" that idioms...


Sorry, Phil, I didn't communicate clearly enuf: the above 3 English
sentences are precisely examples with English idioms. They are not some
other figures of speech. My struggle has been trying to determine whether
some specific example in NT Greek is a true idiom or some other figure of
speech, such as euphemism, metonymy, etc.

>but my question/comment
> may head off in another direction. Can you distinguish between a Figure
of Speech and Euphemistic
> language?

Euphemism is one class of figures of speech. Figures of speech is the larger
set of which euphemisms are subset.

> An example might be the use of "he is asleep" for "he is dead." It seems
to me that
> these sorts of things cannot be translated as strict literal phrases.

Exactly. Very few languages, including English, use that original
Semiticism, which, unfortunately, has been preserved in many English Bible
versions. It is not an accurate translation of the original meaning of the
Greek text. Accurate translation calls for preserving the original meaning
and making sure that if the original text was figurative that that
figurative meaning has been expressed accurately in the translation language
so that the readers of the translation understand its original meaning. We
can field test with users of translations to determine if they understand
"fall asleep" to mean "to die." Of course, I think most of us on this list
already know what the answer would be before we field test.

>
> Two situations may arise. There may be some cultures that do not
understand sleep = dead, so their
> own cultural Figure of Speech (idiom) must be used.

Correct.

> A second problem is when a literal phrase is
> offensive in a culture and it usually "idiomized," referred to in a FoS.

Specifically, a euphemism, which is what "fall asleep" is in NT Greek
(borrowed from Hebraic usage).

> The translator has to be
> aware of how the biblical FoS comes across in English, and must choose to
translate more or less
> literally.


Correct, depending on whether users of the translation accurately understand
the original meaning from the translation wordings we use. We can determine
their understanding by asking them, the scientific process of field testing.

> The Hebrew Bible is especially full of colorful language that is lost in
translation,
> and rightly so.

But it is interesting to footnote it because it is so colorful, often,
earthy, and lively. Figures of speech enliven language all throughout the
world. We just need to be sure we translate them properly into other
languages so their figurative meaning is understood accurately. A huge
amount of the NT is written in figurative language and with rhetorical
devices such as irony and hyperbole, so that we can easily miss the
originally intended message if we simply translate the words.

Wayne
----
Wayne Leman
Bible translation website: http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation
Bible translation discussion list: bible-translation-subscribe@kastanet.org




_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
   http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

---
B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu
To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu




This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:36:45 EDT