[b-greek] RE: Jn.4:24 PNEUMA / 1 Jn 4:8,16 AGAPH - FUNCTION

From: Wes Williams (WesWilliams@usa.net)
Date: Fri Jan 12 2001 - 00:44:46 EST


> >
> > on 1/10/01 11:35 PM, Steven R. Lo Vullo wrote:
> >
> > > In each case the predicate nominative is what
> > > I would call "qualitative,"
>
> Clayton Bartholomew wrote:
>
> > Your comment about John 1:1 appears to suggest that we can observe the
> > semantic issues in Jn 4:8 and draw conclusions about the semantic issues
> in
> > John 1:1 based simply on the fact that they use a similar syntactical
> form.
> > I think this is a fallacy. You are loading more meaning into
> the predicate
> > nominative construction than it will bear.
>
> I don't think my comment suggests that at all. All I meant was that
> comparisons with constructions of this type may helpful in determining the
> meaning of Jn 1.1. For example, comparison of Jn 1.1 with v. 14 reveals a
> contrast by means of the predicate nominatives that is very useful in
> determining the meaning of Jn 1.1.

Steve,

you may wish to consider the archives on this about two years ago when it
was discussed extensively. I understand the point you are making and it is
frequently made in some literature on the subject. However, Clayton's
response has merit. Note that in 1 John 4:8, AGAPH is an abstract noun, a
quality. In John 1:14, SARX is a mass (or noncount) noun. In John 4:24,
PNEUMA can be either a mass noun or a count noun (i.e. God is spirit or God
is a spirit or God is The Spirit). In John 1:1, QEOS is a count noun. As
such, one cannot justly compare John 1:14 or 1 John 4:8 to John 1:1 even
though all are predicate nominatives.

John 4:24 can be helpful to observe John's style, if you take PNEUMA as a
count noun. But even if you do, John 1:1 still stands as different since
there is not another occurrence of PNEUMA that is PROS the John 4:24 PNEUMA
to help use determine the status of the John 4:24 PNEUMA as to whether or
not it is definite or indefinite.

Your observation has merit in that the syntactical anarthrous predicate
nominative preceeding a copulative verb has a potential usefulness on the
interpretation, but Clayton's point is sound in that there are more
considerations, not least of which is the kind of nominative it is (mass,
count, abstract, corporate, etc) and the immediate context.

I bring this up because I was once wearing your shoes. B-Greek educated me
on this issue and I am merely sharing what I learned since my understanding
was refined.

Sincerely,
Wes Williams


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