[b-greek] Deictic Centers (was Perfect Tense...)

From: Mark Wilson (emory2oo2@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Jan 17 2001 - 14:44:57 EST


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Cindy:

You wrote:

------
>It is very probable that I didn't understand all of what he was saying. But
>my issue was with what I perceived to be his definition of the
>'contextually
>developed deictic center' as NOT being related to the time of speaking to
>those present. This is what I'm addressing, and it rather redefines deictic
>center, which I think should be avoided.
>
>I think that he might be saying that the 'contextually developed deictic
>center' could be relative to the time of hearing (reception perhaps) and
>believing. But I'm not entirely confident that I understand.
-----

You are suppose to be able to read my mind and know exactly what
I mean :o )

Here is what I was thinking when I posited the question: Maybe there is not
ONE deictic center (DC) in a sentence or discourse section. Perhaps, the
writers contextually developed a "sub" DC, and then made a statement using
that sub DC as a reference point. In other words, is it necessary to have
ONE, MAIN, FIXED DC per discourse section, or even in a sentence?

So, I guess I am thinking that writers can develop multiple deictic centers
within ONE discourse section or sentence. And deictic centers can be
implied.

That is why I did not personally see a temporal dilemma in Jn. 5:24. BTW,
what is the deictic center of Jn. 5:24 that seems to make the Perfect tense
"out of place?"

Even the "futuristic" Perfects, to me at least, have some stated or implied
DC to which the Perfect functions in its regular sense: i.e., Past action
stated or implied plus emphasis on Present State.

Wallace lists these Futuristic Perfects:

Rom. 13:8
hO AGAPWN TON hETERON NOMON PEPLHRWKEN

By loving one's brother IN THE PAST, s/he currently is in a state of having
fulfilled the law. Note that this fulfillment is contingent upon his/her
PAST ACTION.

Jas. 2:10
hOSTIS GAR hOLON TON NOMON THRHSHi PTAISHi DE EN hENI GEGONEN PANTWN ENOCOS

Here, this person enters into a state of guilt based on his or her PAST

action of stumbling. In fact, the current state this individual enters makes
no sense apart from PAST behavior.

1 John 2:5
hOS D' AN THRHi AUTOU TON LOGON ALHQWS EN TOUTWi hH AGAPH TOU QEOU
TETELEIWTAI

Love is in its perfected state based on the PAST behavior of keeping his
word.


So, even in these "futuristic" Perfects, there is a stated or implied DC.
And in every instance, a past action and a present state are in view, but to
some DC, whether stated or implied, and whether the DC is the MAIN one or
some "sub" DC.

Bear in mind that I am still relatively new to Greek, so my questions may
need a little messaging.

Thanks,

Mark Wilson




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