[b-greek] RE: Church

From: Vincent M. Setterholm (Vincent@zeteotech.com)
Date: Fri Jan 19 2001 - 10:26:39 EST


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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=514132814-19012001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I
don't think it is possible to make any good arguments regarding how the church
was perceived based on noun gender.&nbsp; It may seem odd to English speakers to
give nouns genders, but if you were to ask a native French speaker whether they
though of cabbage as masculine because it has 'le' as its article, I think most
native speakers would say 'no'.&nbsp; (my french teacher did.)&nbsp; Even if it
could be argued that thought went into the gender of the term when it was
coined, words are not likely to change in spelling even if they change somewhat
semanically.&nbsp; In other words, from a philisophical standpoint, Herodotus
might have had a very different image of what EKKLHSIA embodied in his mind that
Paul would have, even though the spelling didn't change.&nbsp; (gets down to
words not having inherent meaning, but serving as flexible symbols, etc.
etc.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=514132814-19012001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I
further point of reference, there are many words that have one gender in Hebrew
and yet are translated to having a different gender in Greek.&nbsp; Hebrew does
not even have a neuter gender.&nbsp; Did the Hebrews consider the Spirit to be a
person, while the Greeks considered the Spirit and It because the
word&nbsp;PNEUMA is neuter in Greek?&nbsp; Any attempt to argue a major
worldview shift based on gender of nouns, then, overlooks the history of the
words in question.&nbsp;&nbsp;A given word is masculine because it has always
been masculine and if you change the gender on your listeners they might not
understand what you are talking about, if it would even occur to you to change
the gender at all, since doing so would be&nbsp;'bad'
grammar.&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=514132814-19012001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=514132814-19012001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; While you
cannot make any strong arguments from the genders of the words you mentioned,
you might find it interesting to look at the imagery used to describe the
church.&nbsp; Masculine and feminine are used: The chuch is the Bride of Christ
and yet the Sons of God.&nbsp; Neuter words are used as well, the church is the
seed (to sperma) of abraham, but that would be back to argueing based on
word
gender rather than imagery that can be more completely tied to conceptual
gender.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=514132814-19012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=514132814-19012001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hope this
provides food for thought,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=514132814-19012001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Vincent M.
Setterholm</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Bryce Griffy
  [mailto:bgriffy@tds.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 18, 2000 7:26
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Biblical Greek<BR><B>Subject:</B> [b-greek]
  Church<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello, I am new here, but I look forward to
  asking you folks lots of questions. I have a question that I wish someone
  could help me with, I have looked up the word church and it is a feminine
  noun. Now my dilemma is I am told that if you are speaking of the body it can
  become masculine, as to take on the form of a masculine noun, and thereby
  referring to the church as a "he" instead of a "she" or bride. I can word this
  over again if it is not clear as to what I would like explained. I would like
  someone with a good back ground to tell me either yes or no on this matter,
  either yes church is always referred to as a feminine noun, but if you are
  talking about the body of Christ then it suddenly becomes a masculine noun???
  I'm looking for something constant is the body of Christ referred to in a
  feminine or a masculine sense, please help me here.<BR><BR><BR>Thanks for your
  help... [New subscribers: (a) Please use full names in signatures; (b) Please
  use plain-text ASCII and NOT "styled text" for B-Greek messages.]
  <BR><BR>Bryce</FONT></DIV>---<BR>B-Greek home page:
  http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek>You are currently subscribed to b-greek as:
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vincent@zeteotech.com]<BR>To unsubscribe, forward this message to
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