[b-greek] RE: the new theory of Greek NPs (To Iver)

From: Moon-Ryul Jung (moon@saint.soongsil.ac.kr)
Date: Wed Jan 24 2001 - 01:10:08 EST


Illuminating! Liberating!

Dear Iver,

I think I just read an account of Greek noun phrases that
is most likely to make sense. Let me just add some comments.

You said:
--------------------
 It seems to me that we have three options for the analysis of these NP
constructions.
(1) Posit two or more NPs in apposition, a weak one if you prefer, but
nevertheless several NPs in succession.
(2) Say that the article in TO DENDRON TO KALON is just repeated with no
other
purpose than to show that KALON is a constituent of the NP rather than
being
outside the NP and function as a predicate.
(3) Say that the article functions to rankshift the following clause in
order to
make it part of the NP. This rankshifting is in most languages including
English
done by a relative pronoun, but in Greek it seems to be done by the
article with
a function like a relative pronoun.
---------------------------------
....
....
This leaves me with the third option. So let me defend that one.

In most if not all languages it is possible to have a whole clause
function as
part of a NP. I mentioned above "never-before-studied languages". The
hyphens
are used to make a whole clause an attribute of the head noun, but the
more
common (grammatically correct?) form would be "languages which/that have
never
before been studied". This whole thing is one NP. The head noun is
modified by a
whole clause, and the relative pronoun "which/that" functions to indicate
that
the clause is part of and modifies the head noun.
....
....
My suggestion now is that the article can function as a rankshifter in
Greek.
This description can take care of a whole variety of rankshifted clauses,
including a very short clause consisting of only an adjective in the
predicate
position, e.g.

--------------
TO DENDRON TO KALON would then be analysed as "the tree which (is) good"
DENDRON TO KALON would then be "a tree which (is) good."
--------------

[Moon]
(1)
I like this analysis because it allows the following bracketing:
[TO [ DENDRON TO KALTON ] ].

Note: Greek does not have an indefinite article and having no definite
article does not necessarily mean that the noun phrase is indefinite.
So, depending on context, DENDRON TO KALON can mean "the tree that (is)
good". Moreover, because DENDRON is delimited by TO KALTON, it would be
often reasonable to render it to "the tree that (is) good".

[Iver]
-------------
This makes sense to me, because it fits with the relative function of the
article in Greek.
-------------

[Moon]
(2)
What do you mean by "the relative function of the article in Greek"?
Does it imply that the Greek article is somewhat different from say
the English definite article?
 
(3)
In relation to this question, why wouldn't the Greek writer use
the relative pronoun to express TO DENDRON TO KALON? That is,
why not TO DENDRON hO KALON?

(4) The notion of rankshifting may be quite helpful to give an account of
the noun phrase hO ANHR EKEINOS in hO ANHR EKEINOS HSPASATO ME.
(That man greeted me). I would conjecture that the noun phrase
hO ANHR EKEINOS (the man [which is] that) came fromI
sentence hO ANHR EKEINOS (the man [is] that). The reason
that we do not have hO ANHR hO EKEINOS may be that
EKEINOS itself is specific enough so that it is redundant for
the definite article to make it more specific.

The idea of rankshifting of hO ANHR EKEINOS does not seem to be so wild.
The intuition of Carl reflected by the following statements of his seems
to support it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've sometimes wondered (but this is purely speculative on my part)
whether,
 when we say (e.g.) EKEINOS hO ANHR HSPASATO ME,
are we then offering TWO predications about hO ANHR:
(1) he greeted/welcomed me (HSPASATO ME),
and (2) he is somewhat distant from me. Can the linguists enlighten us?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, the noun phrase EKEINOS hO ANHR implicitly points to
predication EKEINOS hO ANHR.

(5) Anyway, your new theory of Greek noun phrases should give a similar
account
to noun phrases like EKEINOS ho ANHR. Consider the following example.

Matt 12:45 THi GENEAi TAUTHi THi PONHRAi -

I would consider TAUTHi and THi PONHRAi as having the same grammatical
roles.

Sounds like we are having such an interesting discussion. I feel like I
also am spending too
much time on the list, considering that I have to write up a paper to a
conference and send it
quite soon. But it is really a fun for me.

Moon
Moon-Ryul Jung
Associate Professor
Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea

  

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