[b-greek] Re: Rev3:14

From: CEP7@aol.com
Date: Thu Jan 25 2001 - 12:13:04 EST



In a message dated 1/25/01 5:10:43 AM, virgilsalvage1@email.msn.com writes:

<< Please bear with me before we look at the Genitive THS KTISEWS TOU

QEOU.... to listen to someone else from the past on this list say....I think

the numerous categories laid out for the adnominal genitive in Greek

grammars ( as opposed to partitive and ablatival functions) are all

interpretive categories developed by translators. The adnominal genitive

itself is simply a structual case, indicating that the substantive in the

genitive is dependent upon another nearby substantive; I don't think " that

any semantic function is inherent at all " in the construction, but that the

sematic relationship of the two substantives must be grasped or determined

from context, " if it is to be grasped at all." While semantic categories in

a grammar may aid an interpreter, I think it is a fundamental mistake to

suppose that they are inherent in the Greek. This also applies in particular

to " subjective" genitives and "objective" genitives, which don't

constitute defined categories in the Greek at all. < Snip>


    One more brief comment please...thanks for your forbearance...The

Genitive describes what the substantive is characterized by and what it's "

genre " is.


    Now..let the Greek genitive of THS KTISEWS TOU QEOU...do its qualifying.

The Ruling that that Lord is here in the relationship with....THS

KTISEWS...that which is characterized as having been

founded..constituted...made...brought to be..( thats us) we are His

creation, his bringing about to be in Christ...how do we know that...Eph

2:10b " created EN Christ Jesus "


    The second qualifying Greek genitive....this will tell us what kind of

creating..founding has been done...TOU QEOU kind. This is the relationship

in Chap. 3...We are those by our standing and relationship with Christ that

we are the Sons of God...not just friends...not just in relationship...but

Sons...He is The ARCH THS KTISEWS TOU QEOU


     He is in ruling relationship with the ones who are characterized by

what they are EN HIM...THS KTISEWS


     This is not a 6 word parenthesis to talk about some doctrinal

category.....the Greek here in context and grammar is describing

relationship.....genre....allow me one reference to affirm this and then I'm

done....John 20:17b...And go to my " brothers ", and tell them, I am

ascending unto my Father...and "YOUR" Father....and to my God...and "YOUR"

God. "THS KTISEWS TOU QEOU"


    He is the Ruling in relationship with ones who are characterized by

having experienced the creating, the founding of God that is characterized

by and includes God Himself. What an amazing principle and rich describer is

the Genitive Case. Marvelous! >>

Essentially what you have said is that Christ rules what is created by God.
You have therefore validated the genitives as verbal genitives (subjective
and objective). One other comment, the so-called syntactical categories are
not necessarily mutually exclusive. Many times certain categtories overlap.

Charles E. Powell, Ph.D.
(h) cep7@aol.com
(w) cpowell@dts.edu
(h) 972-231-4166
(w) 214-841-3763

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