[b-greek] But what about prepositions-Genitive

From: virgilsalvage1 (virgilsalvage1@msn.com)
Date: Thu May 24 2001 - 23:57:04 EDT


 To Randall and all..

   Randall, thank you for the acknowledgement and response. You said..

   "The following quotation may be an instrucive example of what not
to do with the/a genitive case, in any language:

with acknowledgments to "virgilsalvage1"
>
> However if we make a statement that George Stewart raised " crop apples
>with apples in the genitive case( assuming we are speaking Greek )
(=SUGKOMIDH MHLWN, r.b.)
>then what
>I am proposing is that a Greek speaker would use the genitive because to
him
>he is thinking about, impressed by,
>and it is not escaping him concerning
>what it means to have such a thing as an apple tree, soil, seed, proper
>weather, growth in the apple tree branches with leaves on the branches,
then
>buds, the appearance of the little apples, the continuance of the season,
>more growth, new shape color, more time, harvest approaching...Now, apples
!
>Wonderful, sweet, nutritious and thereby life-giving apples. This is crop
>(apples--genitive case) It speaks of distinction. Distinction that cannot
>come to be without something more significant happening than what is
>represented by the relationship between verb and accusative.
(end quote)


and you also commented...."

Please apply some common sense:
would you want people interpreting English like the above quote?
Such extrapolations violate every principle of human
communication that I know and in every language that I know.
The good thing is that, having seen such an expanded reading,
perhaps students will be brought back into the realities of
human communication."

    Randall, surely I appreciate and understand this last comment. However,
I would point out that our realizations concerning what the Greek means fall
short on many occasions, as is noted in many different ways right here on
this list. I think our understanding of what the genitive conveys is
probably at the head of the list.

  You ask would I want people interpreting English like the above quote ? I
don't believe at this time that that is possible....GAR we don't have a true
genitive in English. Neither do the modern Greeks. We don't think that way.
Therefore there is not a need and hence there does not exist the genitive
for us to utilize. But what is important for us to realize is: The ancient
Greeks needed it and that carries import. Then most important of all is that
the writings that are vital to what we pursue were written in that language
and used that genitive. Unless we know the reason for it and what it
indicates...I suggest we are missing out on much.

    I would like to repeat your statement that is in the paragraph above...

    Please apply some common sense:
would you want people interpreting English like the above quote?
Such extrapolations violate every principle of human
communication that I know and in every language that I know.
The good thing is that, having seen such an expanded reading,
perhaps students will be brought back into the realities of
human communication."


   And then respond to it in this way with all sincerity and seriousness and
ask that we all consider it from the following perspective....

  I would like to refer you in consideration of what the genitive case
indicates.....refer you to a genitive case that is approximately 4000 years
long and ask if after we have read it would we ask Luke the above mentioned
question ? Or would we be duly impressed that the genitive case indicates a
very real process that involves more than just the result. It seems to me
that is what Luke must have been realizing when he gave us this 4000 year
long genitive in Luke 3:23-38.

 What should we think about this, Randall ?

 Thank you for considering the same..

Virgil Newkirk


---
B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu
To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu




This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:36:57 EDT