[b-greek] RE: Luke 9:58

From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Wed Jul 04 2001 - 13:10:49 EDT


At 8:44 AM -0700 7/4/01, Richard Allan Stauch wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Iver Larsen [mailto:iver_larsen@sil.org]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 11:10 PM
>>Luke 9:58 OUK ECEI POU THN KEFALHN KLINH
>>"he does not have (a place) where he might rest the/his head"
>>> This is translated in every translation I have read as an infinitive
>clause.
>>> NRSV translates the verse as "but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his
>head."
>>The infinitive is an English way of expressing it in a short, natural way.
>It
>>means the same as the more literal translation above.
>
>The question got me started looking for uses of POU~ with the subjunctive in
>the NT or LXX. Of course, Matthew 8:20 simply duplicates this text. Three
>times it is used in the form of direct question in the NT (Matthew 26:17;
>Mark 14:12; Luke 22:9). Once, the LXX translates an indirect question (LXX
>78:10, NAS 79:10). John's Gospel 11:57a uses POU~ precisely the same way,
>though.
>INA EAN TI GNW POU~ ESTIN MHNUSH
>that if anyone knew where he was (he must) report (it)
>
>Despite the interrogative, I don't see room for a direct question in there.
>Nevertheless, John paints the picture of the priests and Pharisees going
>around, grabbing people whom they know have been listening to Jesus, and
>demanding, "Where is he? If you know where he is, you must tell us. We will
>arrest him, and you don't want the same thing to happen to you." So, it is
>an implied, indirect question.
>
>In the same way, I don't see a direct question in Luke 9:58. On the other
>hand, Luke does paint the picture of Jesus, at the end of a given day,
>looking around for a place to sleep. Ergo, an implied, indirect question,
>"where to lay the head?". Not for translation as such, but perhaps it is
>best left to commentaries.
>
>Just my musing,
>Richard Allan Stauch
>Long Beach, CA

I've always thought that this construction was a Latinism in Greek. Here's
a message I sent five years ago regarding it:

>Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:25:08 -0500
>To: Nikos Sarantakos <sarant@innet.lu>
>From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
>Subject: Re: Luke 9:58
>Cc: b-greek@virginia.edu
>
>At 9:51 PM -0500 9/4/96, Nikos Sarantakos wrote:
>>Dear all,
>>
>>Luke 9:58 concludes:
>>O DE UIOS TOU ANQRWPOU OUK EXEI POU THN KEFALHN KLINHi
>>
>>This POU THN KEFALHN KLINHi is the subject of my query: I would
>>expect it to be rather THN KEFALHN KLINAI, with an infinitive instead
>>of a subjunctive. Indeed, Modern Greek, where this has become a
>>proverbial phrase, uses the infinitive: DEN EXEI POU THN KEFALHN
>>KLINAI.
>>
>>Not having studied NT Greek, I wonder whether this use of the
>>subjunctive is a particularity, whether there are more examples in
>>the NT -or perhaps it is a commonplace phenomenon and I should have
>>known better?
>
>Ah, but in general, doesn't Modern Greek use the subjunctive FOR the
>infinitive? e.g. QA DW ("I shall see"; lit. "I want to see") <-- Koine QELW
>hINA IDW?
>
>The POU clause is interesting; I guess I've never thought about it because
>it doesn't seem problematic. Others should beble to say whether it is
>commonplace in the NT and whether there are other examples; offhand I would
>doubt it. Classical Attic would have an indicative for an indirect question
>in primary sequence: OUX EXEI hOPOU THN KEFALHN KLINEI--but in fact, this
>is more deliberative or dependent upon a deliberative construction: "Where
>is he to lay his head?" "He does not have (a place) where he may lay his
>head." So it's not really a straight indirect question in standard Greek.
>Ironically, however, the Latin indirect question does appear to be
>constructed on the basis of the deliberative subjunctive: NON HABET UBI
>CAPUT DEPONAT. Which raises an interesting (to me, at least) question:
>there have, I know, been investigations of Latin vocabulary in the GNT, as
>in Mark's gospel; does anyone know whether there's been a study of
>_Latinisms_ in Koine Greek?
--

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad@ioa.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

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