[b-greek] Re: Luke 5:34

From: Kenneth Litwak (javajedi2@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Jul 09 2001 - 19:36:11 EDT


t 10:00 PM -0700 7/8/01, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
>Subject: Re: Luke 5:34: En hW
>From: "Carl W. Conrad"
><cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
>Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 05:35:48 -0400
>X-Message-Number: 4
>
>At 10:28 PM -0700 7/7/01, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
>> The last part of Luke 5:34 reads
>>EN hW hO NUMFIOS MET' AUTWN ESTIN POIHSAI
>NHSTEUSAI
>>
>>My question is this. EN hW with an infinitive
>>indicates concurrent action, "while x was
>happening,"
>>but I've not seen that done with the
indicative,
>here,
>>ESTIN. Is this common? Or am I
misunderstanding
>the
>>syntax? Thanks.

You ARE misunderstanding the syntax. EN hWi
indicating concurrrent action
is regularly with a finite verb, not with an
infinitive.

>>Ken, you're not seeing the WHOLE construction,
if
>>you're trying to make
>>sense only of what you've cited. The text
(UBS4)
>>reads MH DUNASQE TOUS
>>hUIOUS TOU NUMFWNOS EN hWi hO NUMFIOS MET'
AUTWN
>>ESTIN POIHSAI NHSTEUSAI?
>>
>>The infinitive POIHSAI depends upon the initial
>>DUNASQE as a complementary
>>infinitive; the whole adverbial clause is EN
hWi
>>hO NUMFIOS MET' AUTWN
>>ESTIN; finally TOUS hUIOUS TOU NUMFWNOS
NHSTEUSAI
>>depends upon POIHSAI.
>>
>>"Surely you can't make ...?" MH DUNASQE
POIHSAI?
>>"... the grooms fast ..." TOUS hUIOUS TOU
>>NUMFWNOS ... NHSTEUSAI
>
>Carl, I still would like to know if it is icomon
to
>use EN hWi without an infinitive to indicate
duration.
> You have broken the sentecne into pieces, and
while I
>did not quote the whole sentence, I would have
>analyzed it the same way. The issue is that EN
hWi
>goes with the verb ESTIN, which is not an
infinitive.
>So can EN hWi be used to show concurrent action
any
>old time, regardless of what else is in the
clause it
>is part of? Thanks.
>
>Ken
>
>>"while the bridegrrom is with them" EN hWi hO
>>NUMFIOS MET' AUTWN ESTIN

Ken, the infinitive POIHSAI has absolutely
NOTHING to do with the EN hWi
clause; the verb of the EN hWi clause is ESTIN.

Ken: I don't know what I wrote that made you think
otherwise, but I have assumed the above statement to
be true since I first posted the question, and have
never disagreed with your assertion. Yes, ENhWi goes
with ESTIN, NOT POIHSAI. I never thought otherwise.
That's why I tried to ask about the usage of En hWi to
show concurrent action with a finite verb as opposed
to an infinitive, sinc ethere is NO infinitive that En
hWi would go with here. Does that help? SO, to try
this one more time,
Given that En hWi is being used with a finite verb to
show concurrent action, and I'm accusotmed to it only
being used that way with an infinitivbe instead, is
this usage, En hWi + finite verb common for showing
concurrent action?


Ken Litwak




That's the reason I broke
up the whole sentence into its constituent
clauses--because you're trying
to associate the infinitive POIHSAI with EN hWi,
when it actually depends
upon DUNASQE in a different clause altogether.
--

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