[b-greek] Re: hOUTOI: a boundry marker in Jude

From: c stirling bartholomew (cc.constantine@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Sat Dec 08 2001 - 12:07:37 EST


on 12/7/01 2:03 PM, c stirling bartholomew wrote:

> hOUTOI seems to mark several of the high level discourse constituents in
> Jude. hOUTOI is used in Jude where the discourse level moves from an
> Embedded Discourse (ED) to higher level of the discourse structure. In other
> words hOUTOI is used to mark a RETURN to a main topical thread.
>
> In Jude 4 a main topical thread is introduced as TINES ANQROPOI. Jd 5-7 is
> an Embedded Discourse (ED). In Jd 8 hOUTOI pops the reader back out of the
> ED by tying back into TINES ANQROPOI. In Jd 9 we see another ED and Jd 10
> returns again with hOUTOI to the higher level thread.
>
> Jd 11 appears to be another ED but this time it contains anaphoric
> pronominal references to TINES ANQROPOI. For this reason some might argue
> that this is not an ED. However, aside from these anaphoric references Jd 11
> fits the pattern of the other Embedded Discourse's by making a comparison to
> a historical precedent. hOUTOI in Jd 12 returns the reader from and ED to
> the higher level discourse thread.
>
> Jd 14-15 is another ED and in Jd 16 we see hOUTOI marking a return.
>
> ***sources****
>
> I am currently reading an older work (1994) on Discourse Analysis, which
> seems to offer a lot of helpful insights on discourse boundaries.
>
> Guthrie, George H. The structure of Hebrews : a text-linguistic analysis,
> Grand Rapids, Mich. : Baker Books, 1998, Leiden, Netherlands E.. J. Brill
> 1994.

Off list it has been pointed out to me that the paragraphs which I have
distinguished as Embedded Discourse (ED) in Jude do not meet the criteria
for an Embedded Discourse (ED) as that term is normally used since they are
not capable of standing alone. This criticism is essentially in agreement
with Guthrie who calls units at this level "paragraphs" and not Embedded
Discourses.

So if we call the units I have marked off "paragraphs", we still need some
way to signify that they present a shift away from the main thread of the
argument and that the return to the main argument is marked several times by
the word hOUTOI. The supporting material presented in these constituents has
several features which mark them as non-mainline discourse units, like the
shift in subject (grammatical), time, location etc.

I now see that Embedded Discourse (ED) is not the best term to use for these
constituents, since this supporting material isn't in every case capable of
standing alone as a separate discourse. However, the term "paragraph"
doesn't seem to fill the bill either. The term "paragraph" does not
communicate the notion that these constituents are structurally subordinate
and represent a shift down in the discourse hierarchy.

Thanks for helping me clarify this issue. I saw Guthrie's chart yesterday
and was wondering why he didn't use Embedded Discourse all the way down at
the lowest level and now I know why. However, I don't think calling these
constituents paragraphs is going to communicate the structural notion.

This is not just a quibble about terminology, it is a question about what
these "chunks" of supporting material in Jude's argument are doing and how
Jude marks them off. The main point I was making, aside from terminology,
was that hOUTOI in several places, beyond its obvious normal grammatical
function as an anaphoric demonstrative pronoun, also serves as a marker of
RETURN to the main (high level) argument with a shift BACK to the subject,
time, place etc. of the main line material in Jude's discourse.

Thanks for the off list response, it helped to clarify things.

Greetings,

Clay



--
Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
Three Tree Point
P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062



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