[b-greek] Re: Thayer - Mt 4:10 - A concrete example.

From: Rick Stamp (rickstamp@gmx.net)
Date: Mon Dec 24 2001 - 17:18:57 EST


Richard Ghilardi wrote:

<<<
Dear b-greekers,

Rick Stamp wrote:
>>>

<< Let's try a different approach. I will offer one or two examples from
Grimm/Thayer which are representive of the types of entries which draw this
type of criticism. If the entry is defective perhaps someone could provide
references which invalidate it.

I'll start with just one example, the entry on MONOS, page 418.

MONOS 1. an adjective, alone (without a companion); a. with verbs ... b. it
is joined with its noun to other verbs also, so that what is predicated may
be declared to apply to some _one person alone_. [my emphasis] [cf. W. 131
(124) note]: Mt. iv. 10; Lk. iv. 8

[snip]

I am interested in any concrete examples which might prove this entry to be
incorrect.>>

Richard Ghilardi wrote:

<<<
Well it is incorrect, Rick. I refer you, first of all, to IW. 6,22 which
reads in part:

...KAI hOTI OU SUNEISHLQEN TOIS MAQHTAIS AUTOU hO IHSOUS EIS TO PLOION ALLA
MONOI hOI MAQHTAI AUTOU APHLQON

Notice that MONOI is a predicate adjective modifying MAQHTAI not an adverb
modifying APHLQON. MONOI describes the state of the disciples after Jesus left
them not the manner of their going. "his disciples,(being) alone, departed."

So the disciples are described as "alone" because one member of their band,
Jesus, has departed from them, though they have each other as companions,
contrary to Thayer.

Theological considerations aside, this text shows that a group of people can
be alone even if only one member of the group leaves.
>>>

Richard,
I think you miss-understand why Grimm used John 6:22 here. You don't think
that he felt that hOI MAQHTAI were just "one person" do you? -;)

The citation (see [W 131 note]) shows that Grimm/Thayer quoted Winer to
illustrate the use of MONOS with respect to nouns and includes John 6:22 as an
example where MONOS appears without an article and before the noun.

It's just common sense that the plural MONOI does not refer to a single
person which is probably why Grimm/Thayer felt safe in leaving it amongst the
singular forms without creating yet another category.

What _does_ apply is that what is predicated by the adjective MONOS is
limited to the noun MAQHTAI. I might add that since the adjective is plural and
matches MAQHTAI in number it also re-enforces Thayer's conclusion that those
instances where MONOS is singular and applied to a singlar personal entity
that this also is with respect to "some one person alone."


>>>
Not convinced? Here's another text. QES A 3,1.2 which reads in part:
DIO MHKETI STEGONTES EUDOKHSAMEN KATALEIFQHNAI EN AQHNAIS MONOI 2 KAI
EPEMYAMEN TIMOQEON...
<<<


Here Paul describes himself and his companion(s) (at least SILOUANOS was
with him, 1,1) as "alone" just because Timothy had left for Thessalonika. Was
Paul << one person alone >> << without a companion >> as Thayer claims? No!
:-) He was alone with a group of co-workers in Athens. I therefore conclude
that Thayer's main definition of MONOS is defective.
(By the way, Paul is not using the "editorial we" here.)
Yours in His grace,
Richard Ghilardi -- qodeshlayhvh@juno.com
New Haven, CT USA
>>>

Richard,
This example is not one that Thayer lists with his section b, page 418. He
lists this in section a. "with verbs." Interestingly enough, BDAG 558 also
distinguishes MONOS in a similar way to Grimm Thayer. BDAG lists 1Th 3:1 in
section 1A where MONOS is used with a verb just like Thayer. BDAG also places
all the other examples we have been discussing in 1B where MONOS is used with
a noun.

Therefore your second example must also be discounted as an example where
Thayer is hopelessly outdated because of new discoveries in the Papyri.

Incidently, BDAG is not so different from Grimm/Thayer in that BDAG
attributes the action of the verbs in Mt 4:10 to Jesus' Father as "the only entity in
a class."

Kind Regards,
Rick Stamp

--
-----------------
Rick Stamp
rickstamp@gmx.net


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