[b-greek] Re: brothers and sisters

From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Mon Apr 15 2002 - 10:21:36 EDT


As I feared when the question appeared, respondents aren't willing to limit
responses to the question but are using the forum to express views on a
matter that belongs rather to the B-Translation list. Could we please
confine responses to the question itself?

At 8:01 AM +0100 4/15/02, Ben and Jo Crick wrote:
>On Sun 14 Apr 2002 (16:54:47), vince_endris@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Is this the same for all of Paul's letter's where practically every
>> modern translation has "brothers and sisters"? Is there any evidence
>> that Paul
>> think himself to be writing to the women in a church? Would it make
>> any difference if we were to know who exactly Paul was writing: the
>> whole church or the elders of a church?
>>
> Dear Vince,
>
> As this is "off-topic" for b-greek I'll confine myself to a few general
> observations, then drop the subject: unless you wish to pursue it off-List.
>
> ISTM that in the patriarchal society of which Paul was a member, the male
> collective noun or plural pronoun included the female where obviously not
> inappropriate. A Jewish man had his "identity" from his circumcision; a
> member of the Tribes of Israel, etc (Philippians 3:5). A Jewess did not have
> this mark of circumcision; she took her identity within Israel by reference
> to her father if still single, and to her husband if married or widowed. Paul
> appears to make this point in e.g. Galatians 3:26-29.
>
> Since the growth of feminism in the last 20-30 years, women have demanded to
> be made more "visible" in the collective terminology of the Bible. Where we
> used to say that e.g. God made promises to "all men", (including all women),
> woemn wanted this to be made explicit, not implicit. Some modern translations
> of the Bible into English have pursued this almost to the point of fatuaity:
> I'm thinking of the New Revised standard Version (RSV) where you can hardly
> find the words "men" or "brothers" at all. "People"; "human beings";
> "persons"; "brothers and sisters"; etc. Even a construction such as "if a
> man... then he..." has become "if anyone... then they...".
>
> So ISTM that modern translators have deferred to the Feminist Lobby in going
> to quite extraordinary lengths to use "gender-inclusive" language in all
> contexts. I'm not criticising this; just observing it.
>
> Where Paul is obviously writing to the woman in church (to reply to your
> question), the feminist lobby doesn't like what he has to say to them at
> all! (e.g. 1 Corinthians 11:3-16; 14:34-35). Hence the oft-repeated charge
> that Paul was a misogynist. No; just a "Hebrew of the Hebrews" (Phil 3:5).
>
> ERRWSQE
> Ben
>--
> Revd Ben Crick BA CF, and Mrs Joanna (Goodwin) Crick
> <ben.crick@argonet.co.uk>
> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK)
> http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm
>
>
>
>
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--

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
Most months:: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad@ioa.com
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