On Sat 3 Jun 2000 (10:58:45), kandswilliford@aol.com wrote: > Is it not possible then, that the phrase CAIRETE EN KURIWi found in both > Phil. 3.1 and 4.4 is such an idomatic expression of valediction which would > be best expressed in English by a similar idiom? This is exactly the way > that Goodspeed has taken the verses, translating the phrase as "goodbye, > and the Lord be with you." I have since discovered that the New English > Bible has attempted a similar understanding with, what I feel, are > better results. Their translation is "Farewell, I wish you joy in the > Lord." > This translation seems to express the valediction idea while at the > same time retaining the concept of "joy in the Lord." Dear Kevin, Thanks for your restatement of your request. The trouble with idioms is precisely that they are idiomatic, i.e. idiosyncratic. "Farewell" would translate ERRWSQE, as in Acts 15:29. Regarding CAIRW, the commentators point out that the dying athlete running from Marathon expired as he delivered his message, with the words CAIRETE KAI CAIROMEN on his lips. Is this to be construed as "Byebye, and we are rejoicing"; or as "Rejoice, even as we are rejoicing!" Is it the message he is to deliver; or is it his own leavetaking from this world? In Philippians 2:17-18 we have CAIRW and its derivative SUGCAIRW together in the same clause, twice in succession: CAIRW KAI SUGCAIRW PASIN hUMIN .... KAI hUMEIS CAIRETE KAI SUGCAIRETE EMOI. Is this reciprocal leavetaking? I doubt it. It reads far more naturally as a mutual call to rejoice. Parting involves sorrow, not joy (Acts 20:36-38). JB Lightfoot has a note at Philippians 4:4 which is worth quoting: "4. CAIRETE] This word combines a parting benediction with an exhortation to cheerfulness. It is neither 'farewell' alone, nor 'rejoice' alone. Compare for this same exhortation the dying words of the Greek messenger CAIRETE KAI CAIROMEN quoted above on ii.18; see the notes on ii.18, iii.1." (JBL, /The Epistle to the Philippians/, MacMillan, London, 1927 (reprint) page 159f.) The notes at ii:18 and iii:1 are very terse, and add nothing, merely referring the reader forward to the note at iv.4. From a preacher's point of view, Philippians is the epistle of rejoicing in the face of death. Paul appears to be awaiting sentence (1:13), which could mean the death penalty or a reprieve (1:20). In spite of this uncertainty, the message of the epistle is a message of Joy. 'Rejoice' occurs 12 times, and the noun 'Joy' 4 times, in the space of a short four chapters. Paul is not saying Goodbye; that would be premature. But whether he lives or dies, is reprieved or executed, he still wants them to rejoice: either that he is still alive, and able to visit them again (1:24); or that he is in Paradise "with Christ, which is far better" (1:23). I don't want to go into questions of 'Introduction'; but Philippians could have been written from Ephesus, where he "fought with wild beasts" (1 Corinthians 15:32), in which case /Ephesians/ is /Laodiceans/ (Colossians 4:16); but the consensus is that it was written from Rome. I disregard the pseudepigraphical "Deutero Pauline" hypothesis for the Prison Epistles. The church dismissed the pseudepigraphical /Acts of Paul and Thekla/, and would have dismissed any more pseudo-Pauline material with as short shrift. IMHO... If the word CAIRW does mean "Goodbye" as well as "Rejoice", then it is the translator's subjective opinion which will decide to opt for one or the other in each context. It seems as though Goodspeed has gone out on a limb all on his own in opting for "Goodbye"; all the English versions which I have here at home have "Rejoice" every time. Goodspeed made other novel suggestions too; e.g. that 3:2 to 4:20 is a separate letter, written a year *earlier* than 1:1 to 3:1, also to the Philippians. Beare made a different but similar analysis; but enough of this. Thanks for raising an interesting question. ERRWSQE Ben -- Revd Ben Crick, BA CF 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK) http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm --- B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu