Dale: Thanks. I will enjoy the journey indeed. Any idea how often the definite article occurs in a prepositional phrase versus its absence? I could probably run it on my Logos software, but you could probably do it easier on your Gramcord (that is what you have, isn't it?). I'm not sure what that would tell us, but it might be interesting to compare it to the percentage of articular nouns in non-prepositional phrases to anarthrous nouns in the same construct. Hmm. By the way, I just checked the first passage, Mt 3:11, and found EN hUDATI ... EN PNEUMATI hAHIWi KAI PURI translated (NKJV) "with water ... with the Holy Spirit and fire." I am not denying the baptismal work of the Holy Spirit, but why can't we take PNEUMATI hAGIWI consistently with the other two, since they too are anarthrous nouns in prepositional phrases and are not translated as referring to a specific water or fire (note the lack of definite articles in the translations). That is, why not just take it consistently throughout as: I baptize with water ... but He will baptize with holy spirit and fire? Paul On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:41:45 -0700 "Dale M. Wheeler" writes: > Paul: > > Couple of things to keep in mind as you think this through... > > 1) The fact that there is no article is basically irrelevant since > the noun > follows a preposition, since, as I'm sure you know, Greek tends to > drop the > article, even when the noun is absolutely definite, when the noun is > > preceded by a preposition. Thus, you have to determine whether the > noun is > definite, indefinite, or qualitative from other factors like > context, other > uses, etc. > > 2) You should look at the phrase EN PNEUMATI in the NT, esp., in > Paul and > most especially in Eph. Some of these have AGIW attached, a couple > have > human attributes attached, a couple are debated, but the ones in Eph > seem > to be pretty consistent. It's my impression that the phrase, as > referring > to the Holy Spirit, begins with John and Jesus. > > Matt 3:11 > Matt 12:28 > Matt 22:43 > Mark 1:8 > Mark 1:23 > Mark 5:2 > Luke 1:17 > Luke 3:16 > John 1:33 > John 4:23,24 > Acts 1:5 > Acts 11:16 > Roma 2:29 > Roma 8:9 > Roma 9:1 > Roma 14:17 > Roma 15:16 > 1Cor 12:3 > 2Cor 6:6 > Gala 6:1 > Ephe 2:22 > Ephe 3:5 > Ephe 5:18 > Ephe 6:18 > Colo 1:8 > 1The 1:5 > 1Tim 3:16 > Jude 1:20 > Reve 1:10 > Reve 4:2 > Reve 17:3 > Reve 21:10 > > Enjoy the journey... > > > > > *********************************************************************** > Dale M. Wheeler, Ph.D. > Research Professor in Biblical Languages Multnomah Bible > College > 8435 NE Glisan Street Portland, OR > 97220 > Voice: 503-251-6416 FAX:503-251-6478 E-Mail: > dalemw@teleport.com > *********************************************************************** --- B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu