Lira said: > My question is: Is it possible that John sees the New Earth with the > New Jerusalem already there, instead of the idea that he sees it in > the moment it is coming down from heaven? If he sees it at the moment > it is coming down, why would the angel take him to a high mountain (v. > 10)? My opinion is that the city is already there and the angel takes > him to a high mountain so that he can have a panoramic view of the > city from ABOVE. And the expression "KATABAINOUSA(N) EK TOU OURANOU > APO TOU QEOU" would just be a DESCRIPTION of the city: "The New > Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from God". Is this > interpretation possible? I think it interesting to consider Porter's view of aspect here given John's "panoramic view of the city". First note Porter's aspectual terms: 1. `perfective' is used for aorist 2. `imperfective' is used for present and imperfect 3. `stative' is used for perfect and pluperfect That is, there are three "aspects" in the Greek verbal system encoded using five forms or inflections. Now the interesting quote from "Idioms" (page 24): "The analogy of a parade proves useful. If I am a television correspondent in a helicopter flying over the parade, I view the parade in its immediacy from a vantage outside the action as `perfective'; that is, in its entirety as a single and complete whole. If I am a spectator standing with others along the side of a road watching the parade pass by in front of me, I view the action immersed within it as `imperfective'; that is, an event in progress. And if I am the parade manager in corporate headquarters considering all of the conditions in existence at this parade, including not only all the arrangements that are coming to fruition but all the accompanying events that allow the parade to operate, I view the process not in its particulars or its immediacy but as `stative'; that is, as a complex condition or state of affairs in existence." So, for what it might be worth from this fellow student of Greek, yes I think it is possible. Lastly, Lira, if Porter is new to you, he has helped clarify for me the distinction (and controversy) between `tense' and `aspect', that is, between `viewing the action as taking place in time' and `viewing the action from a certain perspective'. --- B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu