At 7:36 AM -0600 10/29/96, BibAnsMan@aol.com wrote: >Thanks for the help on the 3rd/Athematic. Chris is still struggling to >understand his instructor in this area. Below is his E-mail to me. Can we >help her out? > >Thanks again, > >Jim >=================== >Here is the ENTIRE description of the "3rd Aorist" in Franks (absolutely >incomprehensible) Grammar. Frank is a great teacher of Greek in a small >group reading the text, but the introductory Biblical Greek grammar he wrote >is horrible: I won't cite the whole long e-mail from his friend that Jim has forwarded; I just want to say that, upon reading it, I can readily understand how confusing the textbook is; there is nothing in all that cited material that is inaccurate, but the terminology is misleading; the same aorist forms are referred to in some instances as "second" aorists, in other instances as "third." I try to be consistent when I first introduce what the textbook which I use (JACT _Reading Greek_--basically a classical Attic textbook) prefers to call "Strong Aorists." I say that there are two older types of aorist that are not different in aspect from the "Weak" (Sigmatic or Alpha type) but that have each their own distinctive formative pattern: the Thematic or O/E vowel type with endings in -ON, -ES, -E(N), etc. and the Athematic or Nonthematic type with endings (-N, -S, -, etc.) linked directly to a vocalic (usually long-vowel) stem. I then go on to note that most Greek grammars lump these two different formative types together under the title, "Second Aorist," but that for purposes of clear distinction I prefer to use the term "Second Aorist" strictly for the Thematic O/E type, while using "Third Aorist" for the Athematic type. It should be added here, however, that there is yet another tiny but important category of aorist formation comprising the four major irregular -MI verbs that have aorist sg. in -KA, -KAS, -KE(N) linked to long-vowel stems, but aorist pl. with endings -MEN, -TE, -SAN linked directly to short-vowel stems. These are closer in nature to the "Third Aorist" type, but they really are unique enough that they have to be learned by themselves, as everyone knows (to his or her own grief!). To which I shall only add the little passage from _Through the Looking Glass_ which wonderfully applies to Greek verbs: Monaco "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said, Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's all!" Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. "They've a temper, some of them -- particularly verbs: they're the proudest - adjectives you can do anything with, but verbs - ; however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!" Carl W. Conrad Department of Classics, Washington University One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130 (314) 935-4018 cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/