>I wanted to add a note about Col 1:15; in that previous thread I declared >my belief that PASHS KTISEWS there is partitive; I still think so, and I >don't see why understanding KTISIS as a cosmological metaphor carried over >from a political sense should alter that. Even supposing that PRWTOTOKOS >governs a "genitive of subordination," I'm inclined to think that's a >subcategory of the partitive. The neat thing about Philo's conception of >KTISIS (one of the neat things, at any rate) is that he considers the >KTISIS to be a community, something in its own way like the Stoic ideal of >the KOSMOPOLIS, and he argues that God sets forth a NOMOS for the whole as >a NOMOQETHS. I want to add just one minor note to Carl's contributions: Col 1 itself defines KTISIS in v. 16. It is TA PANTA EN TOIS OURANOIS KAI EPI THS GHS. This includes both the visible and the invisible tehings [reflectding the neuters]. TA AORATOA are then defined as QRONOI, KURIOTHTES, ARCAI, EXOUSIAI. And it is the AORATA that are the writer's primary concern. The subject of the hymn [hOS in v. 15] is superior to all such powers in the heavens because he created them and, as the second strophe of the hymnic passage makes clear, he reconciled them to God. In 214-15 the write changes the picture to that of a trimphal procession and the Roman tropaion, the victory trophy set up to mark the enemy's defeat. That is, the writer has a focus in his use of KTISIS that he himself makes clear. My two cents worth. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Edgar Krentz Acting Dean, Fall Quarter 1998 Professor of New Testament Emeritus Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago 1100 E. 55th Street Chicago, IL 60615 USA 773-256-0752 e-mail:FFFF,0000,0000 ekrentz@lstc.edu (Office) FFFF,0000,0000emkrentz@mcs.net (Home) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ --- B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-329W@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu