On Sat, 02 Jun 2001 10:22:52 -0400 "Stephen C. Carlson" writes: > It seems that I have to explain my objection more clearly, since > neither you nor Paul seems to see the force in it. > > In James 1:2 and 12, PEIRASMOIS clearly refers to a testing, not > to temptation. Verse 12: "Blessed is the man who withstands > testing, because he has become worthy to receive the crown of > life that was promised to those who love him." > > But immediately in verse 13, James says: MHDEIS PEIRAZOMENOS > LEGETW hOTI APO QEOU PEIRAZOMAI... Verses 14-15 have not yet > been heard when this letter is read aloud and there is nothing > in verse 13 that signals any change in meaning of PEIRAZOMAI > for the listener. > > I find it hard to believe that author of the epistle is now > talking about temptation when this concept has not been introduced > in any way. Rather, I find it easier to believe that PEIRAZOMAI > continues to refer to testing, and I have offered an interpretation > of verses 14-15 that comports with PEIRAZOMAI as testing (i.e. > the rich, too, are being tested when they are enticed by their > own lusts and desires). As a Christianity got richer, they began > to identify more with the testing of the well-off (which we now > place under the concept of temptation) than with the testing of > the poor (which we would now place under the sphere of persecution). > Thus, I view verses 14-15 as the origin of our concept of temptation > as enticement to sin, but I think it would be anachronistic to > ascribe that to James. The epistle is merely enumerating another > kind of testing, and verse 13 remains concerned with a generic > testing, not temptation. Stephen: Let's assume James is maintaining the same nuance of PEIRASMOS/PEIRAZW throughout, that is, that of testing. Now this testing might be for a good purpose or end (1:2, cf also the case of Abraham, Gen 22:1, as clearly James understood [cf 2:21]), or for an evil purpose or end, as in these verses. The shift may be simply in this emphasis. The standard interpretation would not disagree with this. It may simply be a case of calling the testing resulting in sin a temptation. If so, then an amplified translation of the verses might look like either of the two: 1. If we take PEIRAZETAI hUPO THS IDIAS EPIQUMIAS in contrasting parallel to APO QEOU PEIRAZOMAI, rendering APO virtually synonymous with hUPO, then: Let no one say when he is being tested (to evil), "I am being tested (to evil) by God." For God is untestable of evil and He tests no one (to an evil end); but each one is tested (to an evil end) when he is drawn up of his own lusts and enticed ..... 2. Let no one say when he is being tested (to an evil end), "I am being tested (to an evil end) without God, since God is not to be tested by evil things, and He himself tests no one (to an evil end)." But each is tested (to an evil end) by his own lusts, being lured and enticed ... > Let me wrap with a response to a comment from Paul Dixon: > > At 09:28 AM 6/1/01 -0700, dixonps@juno.com wrote: > >It seems the change from the trials of v. 2 (where the testing > > is viewed as from God and for our good) to the PEIRAZETAI >> of v. 14 (done when one is drawn up by his own lusts and >> enticed resulting in sin and death) is sufficient evidence for >> a change in meaning. > > I have a couple of comments to this. > > 1. I've read the text carefully, and nowhere does verse 2 say or > view testing as from God. That appears to be a theological overlay > based upon the standard interpretation of verse 13. Thus, it is > circular reasoning to take this theological overlay as support > for the standard interpretation of verse 13. Although James does not cite Gen 22:1 per se, he certainly refers directly to it in 2:21 ff. Gen 22:1, of course, says God EPEIRAZEN Abraham. Glenn may be right on when he wonders if TO DOKIMION in 1:3 is not the equivalent of testing for approval. There is a testing from God that is for the good of His people, then there is a testing, not coming from God but from our own evil desires that, unchecked by prayer (importing here from Mk 13:48), will result in sin and ultimately death. Paul Dixon --- B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu