Dear Richard S., [Stauch] Looking up FOROS, it seems to indicate a "tribute, or tax; usually paid to a foreign ruler." Perhaps, it should be "Ignatius, also called Theophorus," as Lake transcribes it in the Loeb book I am using (I promise, that is the first time I looked, and the only thing I looked at ;) ). If the word QEOFOROS is to be considered other than a name, perhaps it would be better translated "Tribute to God." (Considering Ignatius' story, this makes good sense, as he considered his coming martyrdom something he owed to God.) BASTAZWN might be translated "bearer," (as I remember from my Catholic days TOKOS is supposed to be translated "bearer", but that appears to mean the result of bringing forth, "offspring, or interest"). [Ghilardi] Ignatius was the first writer in Greek to use QEOFOROS as a proper noun, or rather as I would say, a nickname. But he only uses it in this way in the salutations of his letters. He never uses it as a proper noun anywhere else. This would suggest that he wishes his readers to focus on the meaning that the word conveys rather than merely providing us with an alternative designation for himself. So in rendering this word into another language it would be better to TRANSLATE it appropriately than to TRANSLITERATE it (as Lake does) as though it were a proper noun. What is an appropriate translation? You have suggested, << Tribute to God >>. You have given two supporting reasons: 1) the definition of FOROS, i.e., "tribute, or tax; usually paid to a foreign ruler." 2) <> I will address the second first. I don't see anywhere in IgEph where Ignatius expresses the thought that his martyrdom was a debt which he owed to God, much less tribute ( a specific sort of debt) paid to a foreign ruler. This idea presupposes a vision of God in which He is very distant indeed. Surely Ignatius was on more intimate terms with God than a vassal! But if I am wrong and he does express this idea in another letter, please show me. The definition of FOROS This word does indeed mean "tribute" with the paroxytone accent. But the lexicon (LSJ) contains another lemma for FOROS accented as an oxytone. The definition given is "productive" or "fruitful." So "Fruitful for God" would be just as likely a rendering as "Tribute to God" since, 1) there are no accents in the mss. and 2) this is clearly what Ignatius wanted for his life and death in the presence of God. cf. IgRom IV, 1 -- SITOS EIMI QEOU KAI DI' ODONTWN QHRIWN ALHQOMAI, hINA KAQAROS ARTOS hEUREQW TOU CRISTOU. But all this rather beside the point because we are dealing here with the compound word QEOFOROS and not FOROS simply. The meaning of QEOFOROS was well established in Greek usage long before the time of Ignatius. cf. BDAG and LSJ (under QEOFOREW) That meaning? inspired god-bearing bearing or carrying a god bearing the divine spirit within oneself OR << God-bearer >> I can't believe that Ignatius is introducing any novelty here in the 4th word of his letters. Yours in His grace, Richard Ghilardi -- qodeshlayhvh@juno.com New Haven, CT USA Nibai kaurno hwaiteis gadriusando in airtha gaswiltith, silbo ainata aflifnith: ith jabai gaswiltith, manag akran bairith. --- B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu