I've gotten a few off-list replies, and I appreciate them. But I can see from those replies that the point of my question is somewhat missed. I'm asking a deeper question. In English, if I negate a progressive form, especially if the verb is already inherently progressive (like `go', `walk', `run'; unlike `die', `stop', `slap'), the entire action becomes perfective. "I'm not walking" means I'm in a STATE of "not walking". It seems to me it doesn't quite mean "I'm currently doing the activity of `not walking'." In other words, in English, at least with certain verbs, when you negate a progressive, you get something that looks kinda perfective. This issue is made more difficult since in English, when I say, "I'm going" or "I'm not going" I also convey intention. This is unlike when I say, "I'm walking" or "I'm not slapping." So, in English, when I say "I'm not going" I'm not only negating the action of going, but I'm also negating the intention. This is problematic when translating this sentence. It may have also been problematic for the Greek since there appears to be a textual issue. For everyone's information some manuscripts have OUPW for OUK. Also, John 21:17 has a negated perfective ANABAINW and a progressive ANABAINW. Furthermore, first person aorists appear to be "I went" and I can't imagine a way of meaning a punctiliar present `going' in the first person. Though it works in a second person imperative: "you go". So, my question has to do with whether the negation of 1st person present ANABAINW reflects the sense of "not presently doing the action of going." Sort of a "I"m currently not going." On Wed, 2002-03-13 at 14:24, Mike Sangrey wrote: > John 7:8 > hUMEIS ANABHTE EIS THN hEORTHN: EGW OUK ANABAINW EIS THN hEORTHN > TAUTHN, hOTI hO EMOS KAIROS OUPW PEPLHRWTAI. > > I noticed the second ANABAINW is present tense while the first is > aorist. In English we can't say, "you go up to the feast, I not go up > to this feast." I suspect that one CAN say that in Greek and therefore > there is a distinction in tense here. What I'm wondering is this: is > the sense of this sentence along the lines of: > > You go up to the feast; I'm not presently going up to this feast > since I have some things I need to complete. > > If it's translated as "you go up...I'm not going up..." the sense of the > second verb is actually more perfective in English than I think the > Greek conveys. Here, the English means, "I'm not now, nor ever, going > up." But the Greek isn't perfective, it's imperfective, being in the > present tense. > > Does this make sense? What are your thoughts? > > Thank you a head of time for your feedback. -- Mike Sangrey msangrey@BlueFeltHat.org Landisburg, Pa. "The first one last wins." "A net of highly cohesive details reveals the truth." --- B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu