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Re: What Bill says
This whole debate turns on two issues:
1. The need to respect an authors work, and
2. The propogation of a brilliant set of ideas.
My thoughts on various comments are below:
>From: 1earth permaculture <permaculture1@start.com.au>
>Reply-To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>Subject: Re: What Bill says
>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:39:02 +1000
>
>From my reading of that spiel, the Manual is the curriculum of the
>Design Course, and that any other permaculture "curriculum must be by
>application to the author".
>>>has this been the practise in the past?
>
>Does that mean if we want to run a PDC course or even a short course
>on a particular aspect eg How To Build a Herb Spiral, we first must
>have it approved by Bill and his Institute?
>
>The two comments "nor can any group of people substantially alter or
>assert ownership of the text" and "people need to write their own
>curriculum and textbooks and not plagiarise my work" seem to be at
>odds.
>>> I disagree, I think the two quotes are inclusive.
>My reading is that if we want to continue under the permaculture
>umbrella as designers and teachers we each have to create our own
>textbooks of curriculum, following the principles outlined in Bill's
>(and David's) books so as not to "substantially alter" the work, but
>not too closely as to be accused of plagiarism. And then submit it to
>Bill for approval.
>>> If you did design your own curriculum, why would you need to seek
>>>approval for it?
>My greatest concern to Bill's trademarking "Permaculture Design
>Course" and "Permaculture" is that teachers and designers would have
>to pay royalties.
>>> Perhaps this is the nub of many peoples concerns. If a PDC teacher
>>>has been copying Bill's work and distributing it to students, then surely
>>>that would have breached copyright in the work.
Would it not be a better idea for a teacher to purchase the original PDC
notes and books from Bill and sell it on with a markup?
>I suppose if these royalties went to an Institute that successfully
>administered the curriculum and PDC and higher degrees, then it would
>be a good investment. (?) Such an Institute would, if it followed the
>principles laid down in the Manual, be democratic and open in its
>affairs.
>>> An owner of a copyright does not need to be democratic. In fact the
>>>disposal of a property right is usually quite arbitrary and driven by
>>>commercial reality, ie; the dreadful $$$$. The fact that Permaculture
>>>is a movement which can and does change peoples lives for the better does
>>>not mean that the rights to the underlying intellectual property are
>>>alientated from their rightful owner. I note that there has been many
>>>suggestions here that the underlying intellectual property originated
>>>from others beside Bill Mollison.
>Permaculture is different things to different people. This is one of
>the reasons why it is so successful and has spread so quickly. This is
>also why we are asked in our PDC to define the term. It is also why
>the PDC courses needs to be administered a hell of a lot better than
>they are at present (to avoid the example of a one week PDC courses
>when it clearly says 72-hours duration, and the registration of cowboy
>PDC teachers and designers).
>>> If teachers of the PDC agree that a common approach is required, then
>>>it follows that somehow agreement needs to be reached on funding to allow
>>>this to occur. I would think that Royalties might well be the best
>>>source of such funds. Whilst also building on a quality product in the
>>>PDC manuals from a single source.
>
>This whole situation also reminds me of the current state in the
>internet's growth, with companies like Yahoo initially giving it all
>away free until it grows to a critical mass, then start charging (for
>something that we all created together). The internet is going
>through a massive attrition as companies fail and people adjust to the
>internet being capitalised and regulated. History repeats, are there
>are a lot of similarities between the net and permaculture.
>
>>> The internet is littered with business models that were not built on a
>>>positive cash flow. If you want something to endure, you'd better build
>>>a solid base and negative cash flows certainly do not do that.
>Bill must be laughing now. He reminds me of ol' Joh Bjelke Petersen
>coming out every so often to "feed the chooks" (Joh was an Australian
>politician suffering early dementia who was refering to himself giving
>press conferences - the media and public were his "chooks" or
>chickens).
>
>>> I think it is bad form to draw such an analogy and I do not think
>>>others appreciate such comments.
I do not know what Bill Mollison thinks of all the debate surrounding the
whole issue of copyright, yet I would very much welcome his contribution on
the subject as it might help others understand how to move forward in a more
orderly manner. It might also inject some respect into the debate.
>Marcus Webb
>
>
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