Dear Joe,
Do you know of a documented case of E. Coli O157:H7 in cattle that
have never been fed grain i.e. purely grass fed? It is well known that
feedlot cattle placed on pasture for the last 7-10 days of life will
dramatically reduce their incidence of E. Coli O157:H7. Thank you for
your many contributions........Charles
Braeburn Farm
Charles & Cindy Sydnor
6707 Bass Mountain Rd.
Snow Camp, NC 27349
e-mail sydnor@netpath.net
web www.braeburnfarms.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "jcummins" <jcummins@UWO.CA>
To: <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] no smoking cow? reply
Hi Jeff,
You ask a question that the world cries out for an answer to. It
seems clear that traditional organic practices cannot provide iron
clad assurances that E coli 0157 is not present in fruit, vegetables
or meat, while tradition agriculture cannot provide any kind of
assurance at all. As long as USDA and other government agencies
ignore or diminish the problem, there will be little real focus to
research and regulation. The best hope an organic farmer has to avoid
being scape goated is to ensure that the products the farmers sell
are tested in the field and any neighboring cattle farmers share the
burden of the tests.sincerely, joe cummins
Jeff Schahczenski wrote:
To all,
So if E coli 0157 is rather pervasive in the environment, what
agricultural practices might remove it from the environment or at
least keep it from becoming more pervasive?.... or is just a matter
of more testing and care to prevent it from getting in food system?
jcummins wrote:
Hi Brian,
The paper below from UK shows that E coli 0157 (shiga toxin or stx
for the Ecoli and its bacteria phage or bacterial virus) is found
on pasture grasses but less on silage and processed foods.I have
also found a lot of reports on spread of E coli 0157 by birds,
flies and slugs. I have not put down those abstracts for sake of
space but it seems flies may be a major source for spreading the
toxic bacteria. It seems almost as if nature had generally begun to
rebel against the human predator and joined forces to deal with the
threat. Organic agriculture like conventional agriculture is a
victim not a cause.It seems clear that USDA and other research
establishments have been slow to recognize the growing threat to
humans and must be prodded into action.
Lett Appl Microbiol. 2006 Aug;43(2):205-10.
Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli, faecal coliforms and
coliphage in animal feeds.Hutchison ML, Thomas DJ, Walters LD,
Avery SM.
Research Division, DLS-Eurofins, Wolverhampton, UK.
mike.hutchison@directlaboratories.net
AIMS: Animal feeds (n = 226), collected from pastures or feeding
troughs on UK farms and from feed manufacturers' bulk stores, were
analysed for Escherichia coli harbouring shiga-toxin genes (stx),
faecal coliforms, coliphages and stx-harbouring bacteriophages.
METHODS AND RESULTS: Samples comprised of 79 fresh grasses, 26
silages and 121 dried or heat-processed feeds (DPF). Five of the 79
(6.3%) fresh grass samples contained stx(2)-E. coli. stx-E. coli
were not detected in the silages or DPF that were examined. Faecal
coliforms were detected in 75/79 (94.9%) of fresh grasses, 19/26
(73.1%) of silages and 36/121 (29.8%) of processed feeds.
Coliphages were detected in 63/79 (79.7%) and 18/26 (69.2%) of
fresh grasses and silages, respectively. Coliphages were isolated
at a significantly lower prevalence of 5% (6/121) from processed
feeds. Although stx(2)-phage was isolated from the enrichment of a
single grass sample, stx-phages were not detected in any of the
silage or processed feeds. We did not detect stx(1)-phage in any of
the samples collected. CONCLUSIONS: Pastures have the potential to
act as transmission vectors for stx-harbouring E. coli for grazed
livestock. SIGNIFICANCE AND IMPACT OF THE STUDY: This is the first
study to report on the prevalence of E. coli harbouring stx genes,
faecal coliforms, coliphages and stx-harbouring bacteriophages in a
range of feedstuffs destined for consumption by UK livestock. This
study provides information on the risk of feeds to the spread of
stx-phages between livestock and/or the environment
sincerely, joe cummins
Brian Baker wrote:
Jeff,
In a word, no.
While E. coli is in every cow [and in all of us] the pathogenic
strains are limited. The O157:H7 strain is antibiotic resistant
and is favored in selection by acidic conditions. Cows that are
fed relatively high levels of concentrates and are treated with
antibiotics are more likely to become infected with that
particular strain than cows on pasture not treated with antibiotics.
Suggest you look at the following report prepared by Chuck
Benbrook on the Organic Center's website.
http://www.organic-center.org/science.latest.php?action=view&report_id=62
<http://www.organic-center.org/science.latest.php?action=view&report_id=62>
Brian Baker, Research Director, OMRI
Jeff Schahczenski wrote:
Is E coli 0157 in every cow not matter how it is raised? This
seems to be the implication?
sals wrote:
Lawrence u must not have heard of the new think tank idea
against natural farming call "get the shit out of natural farming.
"}. u have not seen anything yet. I always thought a cow was one
perfect creation eating grass and weeds and turning it into milk
beef and pure gold manure. I don't use it now because of all the
pressure I see the government will put on natural farming . I
can see by the talk going around that manure may be out for me.
darn I always thought ally farming was a wise way to farm . Talk
about sustainable ag. I seen it once and thought the farmer was
one of the smartest farmers I knew . Ally farming is where u
plant fruit trees leave space for grazing then more trees. let
the cows graze in-between the trees , taking time for feed to
grow then something else then foodstuff or crop etc. I don't
know the rotation or timing but I always thought what a
sustainable way to farm. the cows grazes and poops and walks
around then the cows are moved to another ally where feed
grasses etc are grown . old ally rest or something then after
right time crop planted then plant what cows eat then let the
cows back in again. the whole idea seem sustainable to me. guess
this kills that idea. I don't use manure or compost tea anymore
because the government USDA organic certifier etc give u so much
manure for using it . If u are doing compost tea I would not use
manure in it and compost with no manure but if u are certified u
have to know what's in it . in my mind comport tea and manure
and even compost are the best tools we have but government
persecution is too much to bear. I don't know how they are going
to put life back into their burned out dead soil with out those
tools. I can see feed lot manure being bad but what u had
delivered and what your going to do with it sounds right to me.
Ori inal Message ----- From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr."
<lfl@INTREX.NET>
To: <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: no smoking cow?
jcummins wrote:
There seems to be a real effort to stop trying to pin the
spinach outbreak on organic food. However, it is clear that
organic farmers will have to steer clear of cows! >
I just had 8 - 8 cu.yd. dumptruck loads of cow straw manure
delivered for storage, weed removal, and future use.
This is manure from a large pasture where the owner has put
successive round hay bales under trees for his beef cattle to
eat year round. The cows eat nothing but grass, weeds and hay,
never any grain and deposit large quantities of manure
on the hay from the round bales that gets spread over the
ground in the area. As far as offsite N/biomass-compost sources
is concerned, this is as good as it gets, lots of clean N,
biologically active, already mixed with biomass for carbon, a
single source of nitrogen and humus, good stimulus for years of
food and cover crop production and soil improvement. I assume
there will be no E coli 0157 in this manure unless it comes
from some source other than his cows.
********************************************************
To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:
1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to
unsubscribe or;
2- Send a message to <listserv@sare.org> from the address
subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body
of the message.
Visit the SANET-MG archives at:
http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html.
Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm.
For more information on grants and other resources available
through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org.
********************************************************
To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:
1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to
unsubscribe or;
2- Send a message to <listserv@sare.org> from the address
subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of
the message.
Visit the SANET-MG archives at:
http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html.
Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm.
For more information on grants and other resources available
through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org.
********************************************************
To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:
1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to
unsubscribe or;
2- Send a message to <listserv@sare.org> from the address
subscribed to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of
the message.
Visit the SANET-MG archives at:
http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html.
Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm.
For more information on grants and other resources available
through the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org.
********************************************************
To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:
1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or;
2- Send a message to <listserv@sare.org> from the address subscribed
to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message.
Visit the SANET-MG archives at:
http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html.
Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm.
For more information on grants and other resources available through
the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org.
********************************************************
To unsubscribe from SANET-MG:
1- Visit http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html to unsubscribe or;
2- Send a message to <listserv@sare.org> from the address subscribed
to the list. Type "unsubscribe sanet-mg" in the body of the message.
Visit the SANET-MG archives at:
http://lists.sare.org/archives/sanet-mg.html.
Questions? Visit http://www.sare.org/about/sanetFAQ.htm.
For more information on grants and other resources available through
the SARE program, please visit http://www.sare.org.