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Re: HACCP "Rules"



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IMHO as a grower and eater of organic food.  If in doubt I leave it out.  that goes for anything they say don't pick for 90 to 120 days or it might kill u or make u sick.  why would I want to spray something on the food I grow and eat that if u pick it before the 90 days u get real sick.  come-on now this is getting to sound more like conventional growing every day.  when I started growing organic and eating organic I did it because I was looking for safer food.  The USDA better keep organic safe if nothing else.  I don't use any shit any more and I don't use anything that says you have to wait so long before the food is safe to eat.  what about the grower spraying the stuff can he get sick if he is spraying something that takes 80 days to be safe.  if one USDA organic grower grows food that makes folks sick all organic growers will suffer ..  If folks can say organic is not safer than conventional food because the USDA lets organic growers use stuff that will make u sick then all organic growers will suffer.  .  now I use no shit still folks say organic food is not safer because the organic stuff they use on the plants is not safe.  well I don't use that stuff but still I have to suffer because someone is bum raping all organic growers because the USDA is letting organic growers use unsafe stuff.  If one grower made folks sick with a USDA organic materials list approve product forget about it it.     maybe to u folks that want to grow organic just for the big bucks its ok but if u want to grow safer food for all that eat it why take the chance with HACCP or whatever.  if in doubt leave it out.  how can u sleep because the USDA says leave it 120 days and it will be safe.  they  say that about a lot of stuff. If the USDA lets stuff be used in the USDA organic movement that is not safe I will run from the word organic.  RUN  and so will all those that buy organic.  Keep organic safe plus keep organic organic .  that is what the USDA should be doing.  Most folks that buy organic feel it is safer no matter what the USDA says so let us not betray their trust in organic food.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group [mailto:SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Aquatfs@AOL.COM
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:56 AM
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
Subject: HACCP "Rules"

I think that it is important to realize that HACCP, just like Organic, can be a double edged sword. Buyers and consumers want to know that the food they are buying is of a certain quality. The problem is in defining:

1. What is quality?
2. What can and can't producers do and use in order to achieve this quality?
3. Who decides on all of the definitions and standards?

Even though you may create and implement a HACCP program to ensure the quality and safety of raw dairy products, you will have a difficult time selling these products (in the US). The crux of the matter is that I would trust a knowledgeable and ethical farmer to set his/her own standards and methods of operation. But what about the not so enlightened farmer or the unscrupulous farmer? This is where third party standards may be required.

One side note on whether food producers are allowed to convert poor quality product into a "safe" product. HACCP is primarily focused on product safety and not necessarily product quality. As long as you have an adequate kill step that results in the mandated log reductions in pathogens, you are considered to be producing a suitable product. Douglas, I respect your view that safety and quality go hand in hand, but I think that you will find that the majority of the food production system has separated these attributes. The government imposed HACCP standards in response to food safety concerns. Your suggestion to create a new acronym if HACCP does not address quality and safety could face the same problems encountered in setting the "new organic" standards. In the end. consumers will need to get closer to the producers of their food and place their trust in the individual and not the piece of paper or the certification.

Alan Ismond, P.Eng.
Aqua-Terra Consultants