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Re: BD Now! Mark Schonbeck on Albrecht cation ratios, Gregg Young's book on Albrecht



Allan -

I thought that you know Mark Schonbeck as he is with VABF
where we recently attended.

He was at New Alchemy Institute for some years before migrating
to commune living and farming in Virginia. He has has conducted
extensive trials on cover crops and soil management systems.
As I suggested, you suggested, and Bob suggested, it would be have
been so much more interesting and useful if Schonbeck had worked
more closely with Neil Kinsey in the SARE/OFRF funded field trials.

If you are implying or misreading that Schonbeck was an "extension
agent" out to misapply biological farming, it is incorrect and impolite.
We should also not assume that something he published a few years
ago is still what he understands or emphasizes about Albrecht.
Regardless, the gist of your message is understood.  Thank goodness
for Acres USA, EcoFarming, NOFA, MOSES, ATTRA,
Carolina Farm Stewardship, VABF, and related organizations
for offering a platform for experienced farmers and specialists
to share knowledge of biological farming.... instead of relying
on scientific journal articles based on improper understanding
and skewed research protocals.  For that matter, biological
farming has advanced through practitioner literature and
field days and conferences "in spite" of Extension and Research
literature.   On the other hand, to the credit of sustainable
agriculture organizations and university programs, the platform for
farmers to share their biological farming experience and knowledge
is now widely available through these programs.
Steve Diver


Allan Balliett wrote:

Yet, as Allan and Bob have pointed out, many of the land-grant
researchers stride out into the field on their own, without
the guidance or lab support from the ecofarming labs with
20-30 years of proven experience, who were also direct
students of Albrecht, worked for Brookside Labs, etc.   I think
that is a misssing link, not the "bias" of these qualified and holistic
minded soil scientists.


The point from my side, Steve, is "If they aren't going it right, they aren't doing it at all."

I take it at this point that Schonbeck (an extension agent, right?) had the state lab do his work, or something. If that's so, he can make comments on how the state lab works but not on how well Albrecht works. This is just a fact. One we've known for a long time and one that skeptical me does NOT consider to be promoted for mercantile reasons.

Bottom line: it is unscientific to say that Schonbeck has demonstrated Albrecht to be useless in the SE. All we can say is this: if you want to implement the Albrecht method in the SE, don't, whatever you do, take counsel from Schonbeck.

Your explanation of land grant failures touches on part of the problem. Another part of the problem is that those boys can dream up a study and then get paid to do it, regardless of the outcome. Talk about getting focused on process!!

The second problem, and it's a big one: the land grant boys do NOT have an internized world-view that incorporates holism in any effective manor. As a result, they often concoct tests of processes out of context and then have the gall to denounce whole alternative approaches.

FOR GODS SAKE MAN, THE FRUIT RESEARCH STATION IN KEARNESYVILLE IS STUDYING COMPOST TEA ON APPLE DISEASES. THEY NEVER TEST THEIR COMPOST NOR THEIR TEA, THEY NEVER FEED IT WHEN THEY BREW IT, AND YET, THEY FEEL QUALIFIED TO DENOUNCE COMPOST TEA AS A PREVENTATI VE OF FOLIAR DISEASE IN APPLES!!

This is the sort of disjointed science that the American farmer is paying for and getting back informain that is LESS than nothing: studies by people who absolutely have no idea of what they are studying but are all too happy to suck up tax dollars to do so. Undoubtedly, there is a new generation coming along that actually understands who things are interconnected. Lets hope we start seeing some studies that tell us SOMETHING!

I hope I made this clear: it is very seldom that I read a negative result stud of biological farming principles that doesn't have obvious flaws in its premise or execution.

On the other hand, by drawing pre-mature judgements by not really understanding the number of variables in vegetable production, the jackalopes have the gall to recommend umpteem colors of plastic mulch for umpteen special applications - none of which seem to pan out in the field, or, in my recollection, in the tests of other scientists.

Don't get me wrong: I think that things s.b. proved.

I also think it is important that we stay conscious while evaluating the results from university-derived tests.

-Allan




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