Re: nitrogen fixing bacteria / soil tea

From: Steve Diver (steved@NCATARK.UARK.EDU)
Date: Wed Jan 15 2003 - 12:09:42 EST


Well, Ms. Rateaver, I don't suppose that I am.

As you know I was one of the first people on Sanet to herald
the value of your book, The Organic Method Primer Update.

In addition, I have listed your book in my list, "Resource Guide
to Organic and Sustainable Vegetable Production."
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/vegetable-guide.html

Yet, if I did so choose to reference an item from
your book, I would, as per normal, cite the reference.

Let's see, if we follow your logic, all the people who
post things about Rhizobia and Frankia and Organic X
topics on Sanet are "copying" from your book.

Since, you wrote about it "first."

Well, Mr. Albrecht will have to turn on his side in
his grave, since you have upended his writings with
your own.

Hey, there goes a big sigh in the graveyard.

Ms. Lady Eve Balfour just turned over in Plot 76.

Mr. Sir Albert Howard is kicking the pine box
in Plot 101.

Best regards,

Steve Diver


Bargyla Rateaver wrote:

> Well, Mr. Diver, I don't suppose you are copying from my Primer again, since
> this info you give out is explained so MANY HUNDREDS OF TIMES in any good
> textbook. But I went to EXTRA PAINS and rewrote many times, to make sure it
> was so clear that evem anyone who would read would simplyHAVE to understand.
>
> It is hard for the average person to even remotely imagine the extremely
> cleverly complicated routine that cells go thru to make up the legume
> situation. People eat beans and peas without ONE SECOND' S THOUGHT to how
> marvelous it is. It is such a pity no one has wanted to make a big movie
> about it, better than the old campus-made thing, because it would be like
> those super movies my son took me to see as a veryspecial treat, movies EVERY
> SINGLE PERSON SHOULD SEE, and especially children. A disney thing I am sure.
>
> It was one of the big thrills of my life to see, in just pictures, how
> legumes manage to do such a world-importance thing WITH NO FANFARE, no
> trumpets blaring, no drums beating, just plain cell movement
>
> How anyone can be so senseless as to pretend to not accept that there was a
> most superduper mind behind such intricacies, just beats me.
> For sure, Disney is missing out on this idea. Maybe I better write those
> guys now.
> Oh, sure, no question about it, absolutely those movie guys would be so
> anxious to hear from little old me, sure, sure.
>
> We can all have a good laugh.
>
> Steve Diver wrote:
>
> > Heide -
> >
> > You followed the discussion? What did you learn about
> > soil tea?
> >
> > >From what I recall reading, nothing.
> >
> > It is a term that David Menne started using, yet he
> > never clarified his ideas or his approach and he
> > confused soil tea with compost tea and EM tea,
> > and there is no such thing as EM tea.
> >
> > So, it makes me nervous to see this term being
> > used -- being "repeated" -- when it has no meaning
> > or practical basis.
> >
> > Rhizobium is the legume inoculant. It works well
> > by putting it in touch with the legume seed, and
> > then the bacteria and plant roots develop symbiotically.
> >
> > Did I read in the past you are working with nursery
> > crops and landscapes?
> >
> > Here's an excerpt from my paper on nitrogen-fixing trees
> > you may find interesting:
> >
> > "There are two broad groups of nitrogen-fixing trees and shrubs:
> > Rhizobia-nodulated plants in the legume family (Leguminosae)
> > and Frankia-nodulated plants in the birch (Betulaceae), oleaster
> > (Eleagnaceae), buckthorn (Rhamnaceae), and casuarina
> > (Casurinaceae) families."
> >
> > "Frankia is a unique genus of nitrogen-fixing (bacteria) in the
> > actinomycetes subgroup, and the symbiotic association these
> > actinomycetes form with trees is known as actinorhizal.
> > Examples of actinorhizal trees and shrubs adapted to the
> > temperate U.S. include alder (Alnus), autumn-olive (Eleagnus),
> > Russian-olive (Eleagnus), buffalo berry (Sheperdia), sea
> > buckthorn (Hippophae), goumi (Eleagnus), and Jersey-tea
> > (Ceanothus). The best known actinorhizal association is
> > Alnus-Frankia. Alnus, or the alders, is a genus comprised
> > of about eight tree species and one shrub in the United States."
> >
> > (Bacteria) is in parenthesis because actinomycetes were
> > once classified as fungi, but I think they are now classifed
> > as bacteria.
> >
> > Steve Diver
> >
> > Heide Hermary wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks, Steve, yes I am aware of legume inoculants, and have followed
> > > the discussions on compost tea and soil tea. . How about Rhizobium and
> > > Spirillum: can they be multiplied outside their symbiotic hosts via
> > > either of those methods? I did not know azobacter was available
> > > commercially.
> > > Heide
>
> --
> Bargyla Rateaver PhD
> http://home.earthlink.net/~brateaver/

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