Re: [compost_tea] Re: Re: Soak in a Bucket CT & NOP

From: <soilfoodweb_at_aol.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:24:43 -0400

Hi Kirk -

Good to see you yesterday at the manure summit. The meeting wass useful as a way for Tilth to get a quorum for support of the ideas expressed. I appreciate that Oregon Tilth supported this and we didn't have to pay a registration fee!

What became apparent at the meeting, and what I have maintained for some time, is that we have to clearly define the different kinds of WATER EXTRACTS that people use.

We have to get off the position that we should lump all these materials as compost tea just because people have lumped many of these things together over the last 5,000 years. We need to separate them.

So, compost tea is a water extract of compost THAT IS BREWED. Typically nutrients are added for the express purpose of ENHANCING BENEFICIAL MICROBIAL GROWTH. Only if you use compost can you call it compost tea.

So, plant tea is a water extracts of plant materials (no compost) brewed for some period, with or without added nutrients. Added nutrients are for the purpose of enhancing beneficial organism life.

Manure teas are made with manure.

You keep getting stuck on the term composted manure. But what is that? It's compost, not manure, right? If something has been composted, then it's compost. What if the material hasn't been completely composted? THEN IT ISN'T COMPOST. That's why you say it hasn't been completely composted. Partly composted material is not finished. How finished does something have to be to be compost? That's a different discussion. Let's just say there is a threshold where one can determine whether composting has not proceeded enough to be able to call the manure something different than manure.

So, stop saying composted manure. Either it is compost, or it is manure.

Compost extracts do not have the brewing period. So, the organisms have not had an opportunity to wake up, the beneficials have not been given an additional encouragement.

Compost leachate is a passive process. Both tea and extracts require a physical ripping of the organisms off the compost. Leachates do not, and therefore usually only contain the soluble nutrients from the compost. Not nearly the same benefit, but growth responses can be seen because of the enzymes, hormones and humics that can be solubilized.

Sun tea is just putting compost in water, out in the sun. UV does not penetrate water, or plastic much more than a few micrometers. When we did experiments in the lab on the ability of UV to mutate bacteria by harming DNA structure, we could stop any mutating effects by placing a simple plastic lid over the dish of organisms, no matter how intense the UV. People are much more afraid of UV than they need to be. ANY kind of covering protects from UV. Doesn't protect from dessication, but protects from UV.

The exposure to the sun doesn't do much to harm organisms in water. The reason the tea did not go anaerobic is because he apparently did not add any additional food resources to the brew. Did he actually apply any physical force to extract teh organisms? Then maybe the "sun tea" was actually a sun leachate. If no force is applied to extract, there is little likelihood of extracting the orgnaisms off the compost and into the water.

 
> How was AH formed?

I have written on this topic before, so this question was answered already. Back when glaciers were retreating , plants started to grow, but the growing season in Alaska is short, and so there was little time to have decomposition occur before the plant material froze SOLID. The next spring, it thawed, a new set of plants grew, and the next layer of plant material was laid down, again with little chance to decompose. The previous year's plant material did decompose some, but it wasn't all gone by the time the freeze occurred. So, over the 7,00 to 8,000 years since the glaciers retreated, quite a layer of plant material has accumulated. In low lying areas, such as the valleys between the glacial ridges and moraines, the layer of plant material can be 30 to 150 feet deep, as I recall.

This material is not stable to build on - rather like building on a firm jello. So the organic matter has to be removed before you can build on it. They take it to the dump - or they used to until AH realized teh stupidity of this and started selling the material to gardeners. And so, we have AH. Wonderful humic materal, great fungi. Some variation in the quality of the material from place to place though, and we need to understand that better.


> On manures, I'm simply trying to say manure composts can make or contribute
> to making good teas, be they aerated or not. Lots of manures are in lots of
> composts and we can't let USDA tell us we have to cook to 150 degrees/dry to
> 12% before it can become compost or tea.

What we really have to convince the USDA about is that composting does the trick in taking out the pathogens, if the process is done correctly. You can document that the process is done correctly, OR you can do the testing to show that the pathogens are gone. Either approach is acceptable. The USDA often gets stuck on "There's only one way to determine whether something is ok". That's stupid. So, we have to de-stupid the bureaucrats. Sigh. There's a chore.

We have to make sure that people understand that "processed" manure is still manure, and subject to all the regulatory oversight, UNTIL they compost it. Processed manure and compost are very different things.

But, you HAVE to get your definitions clear and correct. DON'T lump manure tea and compost tea into the same category.

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
www.soilfoodweb.com

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/0PSxlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Received on Tue Jul 01 2003 - 12:09:02 EDT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Tue Feb 07 2012 - 14:29:21 EST