Re: [compost_tea] Re: Soak in a Bucket CT

From: Robert Norsen <bnbrew_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:15:20 -0700 (PDT)

No, Graeme it isn't commercial interests that raised my objections to manure anaerobic tea. My brewer business has no commercial impact on me at all. I think Elaine's work and explanations have helped explain the problem. If you have watched a child die with E-Coli ripping it's guts, ruining those who survive, you would be where the USDA will be when the general term of compost tea includes any liquid that might be applied to food crops and that CAN contain e-Coli is considered in regulations. They would be negligent were they to allow it.

And if you blather about good old crap made grammas garden grow, so we should all treat this possibly deadly stuff like good stuff you are setting up a situation where we will all lose the right to apply this marvel that Elaine has so well introduced. One of our LIST objectives should be to release the carefully developed facts, not old gardeners tales. To caefully educate from good science. To remove hazards as well as to promote increased use of these soil building means.

If you read Irenes description of the world trade confrence promoting big agricuultures grab for corporate ownersip of seeds and fertilizers and food production on a world scale you can see there is a gigantic job for us to do getting this organic and natures soil systems to prevail in world agriculture. One trip over even one e-coli occurance, the press blaming it on a generic term "compost TEA" could set Organics back to where we all came in. We gotta get it right. Bob of but not said for my brewer business.



Graeme Gerrard <ggerrard_at_resonant.com.au> wrote:

Kirk,
I've got to agree about manure teas, plant teas (comfrey, nettle) and
anaerobic methods, they all have their place and have the benefit of
having been used for years.
But this is a Compost Tea list, and there are people here with
intense commercial interests and their businesses may be under threat
by the USDA. So the distinction between AACT and these brewed
amendments is going to be emphasized here, isn't it?
That doesn't mean that in other forums you won't find more agreement
with what you say. This list seems to be used for discussion,
advocacy and commercial promotion.
As to anaerobics and commercialisation - what about EM (Effective
Microorganisms). As I understand it, this is an anaerobic method
that uses a selection of bacteria and fungi (um...no e coli
included). A lot of people use it - I know that doesn't mean a
whole lot, a lot of people use glyphosate as well, but I think the
fact that it is a very packagable product has has helped its
marketing. Identifiable products such as Alaska Humus and brand X
tea brewer have a better chance of getting AACT accepted generally.
People these days feel more comfortable with a complete "product"
than a [backyard] practise or method.



>Mike recalls "Rodale's Organic Gardening Magazine...always speaking of the
>'soak in the bucket' (anaerobic) method." Are you surprised? He thinks
>this is bad. I don't.
>
>Soaking in a bucket is not necessarily anaerobic, first off. It's a method
>many have used for a real long time. And if it's compost and water in a
>bucket it's a compost extract, a compost tea. Period. This is what people
>heretofore have and henceforth will understand. Aerating enhances aerobic
>content.
>
>Most people likely won't get newer methods unless a connection is made with
>past
>practices, hmm? Why would we want to fly in the face of history? Why would
>we want to tell people who've been making compost tea for generations what
>they have been making is not compost tea? Why not simply tell them about a
>better compost tea?
>
>Despite Sue Lincoln's (Anchorage News) lack of clarity on compost tea and
>nutrients, perhaps aerobic and anaerobic are the two principal types of
>compost tea. My take is aerobic tea is best and there may be some danger
>with anaerobic teas, but they likely both have a place, and you do not have
>to pump a compost tea to produce an aerobic or beneficial compost tea.
>
>This week, I learned of another version of compost tea, from Florida and a
>delightful, smart Asian organic grower. "Sun Tea" he called it. Half a
>bucket of vermicompost and half water, stirred up, steeped overnight, shaken
>up in the morning, used as a soil drench, very successfully. No electric
>pumps involved. Excellent compost tea, we agreed.
>
>Come on, folks, let's get past whacking at what people have done in the past
>and get on with updating long-time organic practices. Even a healthy
>steeped
>manure compost tea is OK, in its place.
>
>What is with this compulsion to claim AACT is the only compost tea? And
>manure tea is outright bad? Where does that leave manure, which is the
>earliest and still one of the most valuable organic amendments I am aware
>of? NOT with "processed manure materials!" per USNOP, I hope. Manure
>composts in tea media are certainly a steady contributor to the value of
>compost teas.
>
>Please, let's agree on this: Compost tea can be made several ways. It can
>be aerated, stirred, steeped, or made with flow forms, for different
>purposes, with or without additional nutrients. It's all compost tea, all
>potentially good organic stuff, except for what might be made from NOP
>manures, it seems.
>
>The issue of pathogens is bogus if your animals are healthy, your compost or
>vermicompost and your methods are good, eh? And if we can agree that manure
>is usually ok and anaerobic teas may be a problem, and tell the difference
>among them, we can put USDA/NOP's stupid processed manure and CT ideas in
>the trash where they belong, yah?
>
>--Kirk
>
>
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>
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>
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--
Graeme Gerrard
1480 Sapphire Coast Drive
Wallagoot 2550

PO Box 39 Bega 2550
ph 6494 1191/0414 396 754
ggerrard_at_resonant.com.au

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Received on Wed Jul 02 2003 - 06:54:29 EDT

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