[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: Permaculture & The Vegan way
- To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
- Subject: Re: Permaculture & The Vegan way
- From: "J. Hobbs" <hobbsj@efn.org>
- Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:31:49 -0800
- In-reply-to: <LYRIS-121328-24520-2001.03.08-17.31.40--hobbsj#efn.org@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
- Newsgroups: permaculture
- References: <LYRIS-121328-24520-2001.03.08-17.31.40--hobbsj#efn.org@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Regarding vegan diet. There are some in my profession, who think
that it would be unhealthy for nearly half of the population to be
vegan because, for some, there is a need for protein greater than
would be met by vegetable sources of protein only.
Jerome Hobbs, N. D.
>Hi Toby et al:
>
>During a class someone once asked Bill Mollison if he
>ate meat. He just replied "I don't eat factory food" Sums
>it up nicely.
>
>John
>
>Toby Hemenway wrote:
>
>> I appreciate many of the points that Graham raises on veganism in
>> permaculture at
>> > http://pages.unisonfree.net/gburnett/essay/veganperm.htm
>> I tend to agree with Wes Trotman, that veganism is only feasible in rich
>> countries. But I think the whole question, "which is more sustainable,
>> veganism or omnivory?" misses the point. Vegans point to the huge acreages
>> needed to produce beef; omnivores point back at the wasteful agriculture
>> that monocrops soy beans. The culprit in those cases is not a particular
>> eating choice but rather industrial agriculture, whether as feedlots or
>> beanfields. Neither "side" of this discussion is living sustainably, just as
>> all of us who drive cars are not living sustainably. So I think basing the
>> choice of eating animals on sustainability is a blind alley and isn't
>> related to how we're really living. I can certainly envision a permaculture
>> system that integrates animals in a way that consumes no more land and
>> resources than one without animals, and offers more yields. We can stack
>> animals into the system very efficiently, just as nature does.
>>
>> Frankly, I have a hard time conceiving of a sustainable agriculture that
>> does not involve animals, as the many roles they play in natural systems and
>> in designed ones must then be replaced by fossil fuel inputs or vast amounts
>> of human labor (and I prefer my hammock). For example, setting aside acreage
>> to grow and process compost crops is probably less efficient than running
>> livestock within a system to consume forage and crop wastes and generate
>> manure. Humanure can't be the only source of fertilizer?the Second Law of
>> Thermodynamics dictates that you'll run out of of nutrients. Plus having
>> humans as the only animal designed into the system is its own form of
>> monocrop, and overlooks many other ways to process nutrients. Stripping
>> animals out of our designed ecosystems seems unwise and certainly unnatural.
>>
>> Having animals in a system doesn't mean you have to eat them (although those
>> who believe keeping livestock is slavery are still going to be unhappy).
>> However, I share the views of Paul Shepard expressed in "The Tender
>> Carnivore and the Sacred Game," and of David Abrams in "The Spell of the
>> Sensuous" wherein they say we need relationships with animals; they enrich
>> us, connect us to the rest of life, and expand what it means to be human.
> > Even our role as predator is a crucial one, deeply embedded in our psyche
> > and genes. Not everyone wants to act out that aspect of ourselves, but as a
> > biologist I've got a healthy respect for 3 billion years of the
>> predator/prey dynamic, and I feel deepened by entering into the
>> awe-inspiring mysteries of that ancient and respectful relationship with the
>> "more than human" world.
>>
>> Thus I feel the sustainability argument tilts somewhat in favor of omnivory,
>> but that in the face of much larger constraints--since few of us are growing
>> all our own food, and we are dependent on industrial systems--whether or not
>> we eat animals really boils down to personal belief. Hence we can discuss
>> it, cheerfully or angrily, forever.
>>
>> Toby
>>
>> ---
>> You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: jwirwin@permaculture.net
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
>> Get the list FAQ at:
>>http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/permaculture.faq
>
>
>---
>You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: hobbsj@efn.org
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
>Get the list FAQ at:
>http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/permaculture.faq