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Re: Let's continue a global directory on-line...





In a message dated 7/28/99 7:17:23 AM, vinci@alternativ.net writes:

<<It is a little difference if you hust put out a catalog of ressources
or addresses, which you get form the whole world - and the only thing
you do is make the layout and sort alphabetically - or if you really
invent something new - and you feel you want to get something for it.
>>

Frankly, either you don't know what you are talking about or you are trying 
to be argumentitive instead of reaching some sort of understanding.   

There is a considerable expense in mailing to everyone on a directory, 
especially an international directory, to validate their information.   While 
the proliferation of email reduces this expense somewhat, it increases total 
work as people and groups change email addresses very frequently, even more 
frequently (by at least an order of magnitude) than they change their 
physical addresses.  Aside from mortgage payments, postage for validation of 
such lists is the major direct overhead.  The time involved in data entry and 
corrections is formidible and there is considerable work in setting up a 
really useful database.   If I publish in a print form, as I must since most 
people int he world don't have computers, I have to format every entry as the 
formatting carries information that helps save paper.  Purchases of the 
database have never covered our postage costs, not to mention printing the 
validation forms an something to serve as an envelope and printing the 
database itself.  Not to mention overhead and the cost of the computer.  And 
I don't get any money--in effect we pay money in order to be able to provide 
this service.   Partly this is a marketing problem--I don't do it.  I figure 
I'm providing a service and people will use it if they want it.
    PIJ is providing a service.  It is up to them how they do it.  If you 
took any kind of a real permaculture design course, you would know that we 
have an ethic against competing with one another and duplicating tasks.  
    There is no room in permaculture, in my opinion (and here is one place 
where I suspect Bill and I agree), either for a welfare mentality where 
people  feel ENTITLED to something or to a competitive attitude where we cut 
at the work of others.   Bill espouses, and I agree in this particular, that 
people doing the work need to be free to decide how it is done.
    It also needs to be understood that a global directory and national 
directories have been a continuing problem for permaculture.   The 
organization that became Bill's Permaculture Institute tried for a few of the 
early years to keep a listing.   I was sent one in 1983.   They gave up on 
it.    in the past the previous  incarnations of IPJ have done a really 
dreadful job, listing really ancient data, ignoring updates, etc.  Finally 
someone takes charge of the program and gathers the info and validates it 
annually, and now people feel ENTITLED to the information and ENTITLED to 
have it in whatever form suits them.   Only when you earn something are y ou 
entitled to it.   If there were no directory, we would not be having this 
conversation.  Because someone is attempting one, and now is doing what they 
must to do a good job if it. we get bitching from the non-workers.

We don't really need the owners of the cash economy to try to undercut 
permacutlure.  We are doing a great job of cutting ourselves down with this 
sort of undermining.   

It may be that IPJ doesn't mind if someone else sets up a web page.   It may 
be that they have something to say about this.  For now, I think it is 
arrogant to second guess what the people spending the time, resources and 
money to develop the list should do or shouldn't do.

Ireally don't  have anything to add to this.   So if you want to rant on 
about this topic, you've got an open field.  

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses, 
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence 
courses via email.  Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, 
Sparr FL 32192 USA  Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com  

We don't have time to rush.

A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at 
http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html
Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers 
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