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GBlist: Re: greenbuilding-digest V1 #178



>greenbuilding-digest    Tuesday, February 25 1997    Volume 01 : Number 178
>
>
>To whom it may concern:  Please take my name & address off of this mailing
>program.  I am getting more messages than I can possibly read here not to
>mention that I am already getting all of these at my other e-mail address
>of Center for Resourceful Building Technology.  If you could delete my
>name from this as soon as possible I would be most appreciative.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:59:27 -0500
>From: loren@cstone.net (Loren Abraham)
>Subject: Re: GBlist: Natural sealants
>
>Dear John:
>
>You obviously don't know what it is like to be disabled by MCS
>(multiple chemical sensitivity) and or suffer from related
>envronmental illnesses.  I hope that you never have to truly
>experience this nightmare.  Thousands of people would love to be
>free of this disenfranchising illness.  They have been assigned
>the role of *the canary in the mineshaft* but not by their own
>choice.  To use an analogy_would you consider someone a fanatic
>who chose not to cook with lead pots or season their food with
>arsenic,  or line their walls with asbestos insulation?  Would you
>willingly live in a home where the exhaust of your furnace was
>vented into the house?  This is exactly the situation that these
>thousands of people with MCS face in every environment every day
>because of the lack of understanding by designers and
>manufacturers.  Since you are a subscriber to this list you of all
>people should be willing to recognize that we must place the
>health and safety of building occupants above convenience and
>other economic concerns.  When someone tells you they cannot
>tolerate a certain odor or contaminant, you should give them the
>benefit of the doubt.  They know better than you what makes them
>ill.  Before labeling someone a fanatic I suggest you try to walk
>in their shoes.   Thank you for your increased awareness and
>compassion.
>
>Incidently, liquid silicones may be the worst possible choice for
>people with MCS.
>
>
>_____________________________________
>Loren E. Abraham, AIA, IDSA
>President - DTI/ERG
>912 St Charles Avenue, Charlottesville, VA 22901
>Vc: 804 296 4197    Pg: 804 963 1511  Fax: 804 971 3729
>=A9 1997 Daybreak Technologies Inc. / Environmental Research Group
>
>You wrote:
>- ----------
>> From: John Bower <healthy@bloomington.in.us>
>> To: Greenbuilding Discussion <greenbuilding@crest.org>
>> Subject: GBlist: Natural sealants
>> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:30:19 -0600
>>
>> Marc:
>> Fanatics are hard to deal with because they aren't rational. I
>like to
>> use 100% silicone because it lasts a long time. You might
>suggest
>> aquarium grade. If fish like it a fanatic might also.
>> --
>> John Bower
>> The Healthy House Insttute
>> Visit our web site: http://www.hhinst.com/
>> email: healthy@bloomington.in.us
>__________________________________________________________________
>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
>and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
>send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
>__________________________________________________________________
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:59:32 -0500
>From: loren@cstone.net (Loren Abraham)
>Subject: Re: GBlist: Natural sealants
>
>Liquid sealants must contain solvents to become liquid and in
>order to cure they must undergo chemical reactions after being
>applied.  Both of these criteria lead to the off-gassing of
>offensive and frequently irritating chemicals.  Latex rubber
>caulks are  probably the least offensive but they do release
>chemicals during the curing process and they are not as durable as
>some of the others (e.g., silicones, urethanes).
>
>The best solution to the problem you raised regarding chemical
>sensitivity to liquid sealants is probably the use of extruded
>thermoset (e.g., EPDM or silicone) gaskets.  PVC,  urethane and
>santoprene are also available in various profiles, foamed and
>otherwise, but would are less desirable because they are not as
>inert as the thermoset resins.  EPDM gaskets are used on a
>widespread basis in manufactured Housing in Europe (esp. Norway,
>Sweden, etc,) and also in most european windows.  In the US liquid
>sealants are usually preferred for these applications, with
>associated off-gassing of solvents and other additives for months
>or even years.  The chemicals off-gassed by some are proabably
>more offensive than others, however and the specific sensitivity
>seems to be a very individual thing.
>
>Unfortunately, this solution may not be at all helpful in a
>retrofit situation such as the one you currently face.  The EPDM
>gaskets are typically placed during construction (e.g., between
>sill plate and floor, between wall sections, etc.) and do not lend
>themselves to remedial application.  I would suggest a painstaking
>process of testing various inert foam materials (which can be
>forced into gaps) for sensitivity to the client.  You probably
>will not be successful in completely plugging all of the holes but
>you may be able to get most of them.  Be sure to deal with leaks
>around interior wall surface penetrations such as electrical
>outlets, lights, piping and fans.  A variety of products are
>available for this purpose and should work in a remedial
>application.
>
>As to the most natural material which can be found for this
>purpose_ because of the growing number of people with MCS
>(multiple chemical sensitivity)_and I have become one_ many
>plastic product applications are being replaced with natural
>rubber materials.  I am not aware of any extruded gaskets or
>sealants currently available in a natural rubber material, but if
>not,  one might bring it to the attention of a manufacturer such
>as Monsanto (a large manufacturer of foamed gaskets and
>weatherstripping).  Who knows_ they might very well decide to make
>such a product.  Hope this helps.  This is probably a good subject
>for EBN if they haven't already addressed it.  Nadav?
>
>
>_____________________________________
>Loren E. Abraham, AIA, IDSA
>President - DTI/ERG
>912 St Charles Avenue, Charlottesville, VA 22901
>Vc: 804 296 4197    Pg: 804 963 1511  Fax: 804 971 3729
>=A9 1997 Daybreak Technologies Inc. / Environmental Research Group
>
>
>You wrote:
>- ----------
>> From: Marc.J.Rosenbaum@valley.net (Marc J. Rosenbaum)
>> To: greenbuilding@crest.org
>> Subject: GBlist: Natural sealants
>> Date: 21 Feb 97 08:10:42 EST
>>
>> I have a building to fix where the owner was fanatical about
>everything being
>> natural and non-toxic.  The problem is, it is incredibly leaky.
>What
>> substances are natural sealants, replacing caulks?  Need to
>accommodate
>> movement, etc.
>>
>> Marc
>__________________________________________________________________
>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
>and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
>send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
>__________________________________________________________________
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:26:50 -0800
>From: Hal Levin <hlevin@cruzio.com>
>Subject: Re: GBlist: Natural sealants
>
>Loren:
>
>Nice rundown, Loren. I appreciate your depth of knowledge on these things.
>
>Beware of "natural rubber." Latex allergy is increasingly common in health
>care settings. Fine particles of latex have now been found in the air in
>some of these institutions.
>
>Hal
>
>
>At 01:59 PM 2/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>Liquid sealants must contain solvents to become liquid and in
>>order to cure they must undergo chemical reactions after being
>>applied.  Both of these criteria lead to the off-gassing of
>>offensive and frequently irritating chemicals.  Latex rubber
>>caulks are  probably the least offensive but they do release
>>chemicals during the curing process and they are not as durable as
>>some of the others (e.g., silicones, urethanes). =20
>>
>>The best solution to the problem you raised regarding chemical
>>sensitivity to liquid sealants is probably the use of extruded
>>thermoset (e.g., EPDM or silicone) gaskets.  PVC,  urethane and
>>santoprene are also available in various profiles, foamed and
>>otherwise, but would are less desirable because they are not as
>>inert as the thermoset resins.  EPDM gaskets are used on a
>>widespread basis in manufactured Housing in Europe (esp. Norway,
>>Sweden, etc,) and also in most european windows.  In the US liquid
>>sealants are usually preferred for these applications, with
>>associated off-gassing of solvents and other additives for months
>>or even years.  The chemicals off-gassed by some are proabably
>>more offensive than others, however and the specific sensitivity
>>seems to be a very individual thing.
>>
>>Unfortunately, this solution may not be at all helpful in a
>>retrofit situation such as the one you currently face.  The EPDM
>>gaskets are typically placed during construction (e.g., between
>>sill plate and floor, between wall sections, etc.) and do not lend
>>themselves to remedial application.  I would suggest a painstaking
>>process of testing various inert foam materials (which can be
>>forced into gaps) for sensitivity to the client.  You probably
>>will not be successful in completely plugging all of the holes but
>>you may be able to get most of them.  Be sure to deal with leaks
>>around interior wall surface penetrations such as electrical
>>outlets, lights, piping and fans.  A variety of products are
>>available for this purpose and should work in a remedial
>>application.
>>
>>As to the most natural material which can be found for this
>>purpose_ because of the growing number of people with MCS
>>(multiple chemical sensitivity)_and I have become one_ many
>>plastic product applications are being replaced with natural
>>rubber materials.  I am not aware of any extruded gaskets or
>>sealants currently available in a natural rubber material, but if
>>not,  one might bring it to the attention of a manufacturer such
>>as Monsanto (a large manufacturer of foamed gaskets and
>>weatherstripping).  Who knows_ they might very well decide to make
>>such a product.  Hope this helps.  This is probably a good subject
>>for EBN if they haven't already addressed it.  Nadav?
>>
>>
>>_____________________________________
>>Loren E. Abraham, AIA, IDSA
>>President - DTI/ERG
>>912 St Charles Avenue, Charlottesville, VA 22901
>>Vc: 804 296 4197    Pg: 804 963 1511  Fax: 804 971 3729
>>=A9 1997 Daybreak Technologies Inc. / Environmental Research Group
>>
>>
>>You wrote:
>>----------
>>> From: Marc.J.Rosenbaum@valley.net (Marc J. Rosenbaum)
>>> To: greenbuilding@crest.org
>>> Subject: GBlist: Natural sealants
>>> Date: 21 Feb 97 08:10:42 EST
>>>=20
>>> I have a building to fix where the owner was fanatical about
>>everything being
>>> natural and non-toxic.  The problem is, it is incredibly leaky.=20
>>What
>>> substances are natural sealants, replacing caulks?  Need to
>>accommodate
>>> movement, etc.
>>>=20
>>> Marc
>>__________________________________________________________________
>>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
>>and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
>>send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
>>__________________________________________________________________
>>.-
>>
>>
>Hal Levin         <hlevin@cruzio.com>
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
>and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
>send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
>__________________________________________________________________
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 11:35 PST
>From: obrien@hevanet.com (Mike O'Brien)
>Subject: Re: GBlist: Natural sealants
>
>A gasket option/question--
>
>Are polyethylene "backer rod" gaskets OK? They are available in diameters
>from 1/4" up to 2" for a few cents a foot from concrete and masonry
>suppliers. They are somewhat compressible and make good stuffers for larger
>cracks like windows to rough openings. They are intended as dams to prevent
>caulk sealants from sucking down into a wide gap before they can set up.
>When blower door testing houses, the backer rods look fairly tight even
>before caulk is applied over them.
>
>Mike
>
>>
>>The best solution to the problem you raised regarding chemical
>>sensitivity to liquid sealants is probably the use of extruded
>>thermoset (e.g., EPDM or silicone) gaskets.  PVC,  urethane and
>>santoprene are also available in various profiles, foamed and
>>otherwise, but would are less desirable because they are not as
>>inert as the thermoset resins.  EPDM gaskets are used on a
>>widespread basis in manufactured Housing in Europe (esp. Norway,
>>Sweden, etc,) and also in most european windows.  In the US liquid
>>sealants are usually preferred for these applications, with
>>associated off-gassing of solvents and other additives for months
>>or even years.  The chemicals off-gassed by some are proabably
>>more offensive than others, however and the specific sensitivity
>>seems to be a very individual thing.
>>
>>Unfortunately, this solution may not be at all helpful in a
>>retrofit situation such as the one you currently face.  The EPDM
>>gaskets are typically placed during construction (e.g., between
>>sill plate and floor, between wall sections, etc.) and do not lend
>>themselves to remedial application.  I would suggest a painstaking
>>process of testing various inert foam materials (which can be
>>forced into gaps) for sensitivity to the client.  You probably
>>will not be successful in completely plugging all of the holes but
>>you may be able to get most of them.  Be sure to deal with leaks
>>around interior wall surface penetrations such as electrical
>>outlets, lights, piping and fans.  A variety of products are
>>available for this purpose and should work in a remedial
>>application.
>>
>>As to the most natural material which can be found for this
>>purpose_ because of the growing number of people with MCS
>>(multiple chemical sensitivity)_and I have become one_ many
>>plastic product applications are being replaced with natural
>>rubber materials.  I am not aware of any extruded gaskets or
>>sealants currently available in a natural rubber material, but if
>>not,  one might bring it to the attention of a manufacturer such
>>as Monsanto (a large manufacturer of foamed gaskets and
>>weatherstripping).  Who knows_ they might very well decide to make
>>such a product.  Hope this helps.  This is probably a good subject
>>for EBN if they haven't already addressed it.  Nadav?
>>
>>
>>_____________________________________
>>Loren E. Abraham, AIA, IDSA
>>President - DTI/ERG
>>912 St Charles Avenue, Charlottesville, VA 22901
>>Vc: 804 296 4197    Pg: 804 963 1511  Fax: 804 971 3729
>>=A9 1997 Daybreak Technologies Inc. / Environmental Research Group
>>
>>
>>You wrote:
>>----------
>>> From: Marc.J.Rosenbaum@valley.net (Marc J. Rosenbaum)
>>> To: greenbuilding@crest.org
>>> Subject: GBlist: Natural sealants
>>> Date: 21 Feb 97 08:10:42 EST
>>>
>>> I have a building to fix where the owner was fanatical about
>>everything being
>>> natural and non-toxic.  The problem is, it is incredibly leaky.
>>What
>>> substances are natural sealants, replacing caulks?  Need to
>>accommodate
>>> movement, etc.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>__________________________________________________________________
>>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
>>and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
>>send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
>>__________________________________________________________________
>
>O'Brien & Associates
>Environmental Building Consultants
>Portland General Electric Earth Smart program
>Earth-Wise Builders
>obrien@hevanet.com
>
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
>and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
>send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
>__________________________________________________________________
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:02:44 -0800
>From: Hal Levin <hlevin@cruzio.com>
>Subject: Re: GBlist: Natural sealants
>
>At 11:35 AM 2/24/97 PST, you wrote:
>>A gasket option/question--
>>
>>Are polyethylene "backer rod" gaskets OK? They are available in diameters
>>from 1/4" up to 2" for a few cents a foot from concrete and masonry
>>suppliers. They are somewhat compressible and make good stuffers for larger
>>cracks like windows to rough openings. They are intended as dams to prevent
>>caulk sealants from sucking down into a wide gap before they can set up.
>>When blower door testing houses, the backer rods look fairly tight even
>>before caulk is applied over them.
>>
>Polyethylene should be reasonably stable and durable, especially absent any
>direct solar radiation, and it will have minimal offgassing. Clearly not
>natural, but what importance does "natural" have is a matter of dispute,
>obviously. On the other hand, one certainly is not going to be able to lable
>polyethylene "sustainable."
>
>
>Hal Levin         <hlevin@cruzio.com>
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
>and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
>send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
>__________________________________________________________________
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 15:51:17 -0500 (EST)
>From: RDSGlen@aol.com
>Subject: GBlist: Dustmites
>
>I would like more information on controlling dustmites in bedding.  Thanks.
>
>Glen
>__________________________________________________________________
>This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
>and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
>send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.


__________________________________________________________________
This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by Oikos (www.oikos.com)
and Environmental Building News (www.ebuild.com). For instructions
send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
__________________________________________________________________