Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:13:35 -0600 From: "Sandy W5TVW"Subject: Re: Yet more Re: GB> Tube Dampers? LOL!
The "rubber band" dampers are no joke in some instances! Some of the old reel to reel tape recorders used to use a thick sheet lead damper on the outer part of the steel tube shield! Some people found out a rubber band on the preamp tube would reduce or eliminate "microphonics". I'd bet the "audiophools would jump on this as `giving richer and fuller' sound! 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From:To: "Brad Thompson" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 8:50 AM Subject: Re: Yet more Re: GB> Tube Dampers? LOL! | | | In the 20's you could spens a bit extra and buy 'sprung' sockets | for the tubes in your radio. I just sole a homebrew TRF on ebay that used | these. lineup was 301, 300, 2 x 340, 171 | -bob | | | On Sun, 14 Mar 2004, Brad Thompson wrote: | | > At 02:13 AM 03/14/2004 -0500, Sparkwireless@aol.com wrote: | > >Don't laugh guys. I have a very small tube portable from the mid | > >50s. Each of the 4 tubes has a heavy rubber band around it. (The little | > >radio was way cool too. Plugging in the earphone also disconnected the | > >3A5 audio amp stage to save the battery. I also have a pair of Roberts | > >770X tape recorders. The first audio stage tube has a heavy rubber | > >bourlet which it is pressed into. | > > | > | > Hello-- | > I dimly recall dismantling an oddball oscilloscope plug-in (Fairchild? | > LFE?) that | > featured a couple of odd tube shields in the preamp portion of the circuit. | > These | > were normal-looking shields except for a lead sleeve fitted over the top | > inch of the | > shield which added a large amount of mass. Also, IIRC the tube sockets were | > floated | > in rubber washers. I don't believe that the lad was there for radiation | > shielding-- only | > adding mass. | > | > 73-- | > | > Brad AA1IP | > | |
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:38:00 -0500 From: johnSubject: GB> Trade 50's QST CD set.....
--=======279B2DF======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-77932D60; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've got two original sets of the ARRL QST CD's for 1950-1959. Would like to trade for any pre-40's original set. Thanks! John --=======279B2DF======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-77932D60 Content-Disposition: inline --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 3/13/04 --=======279B2DF=======--
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:32:37 -0500 From: "dave hooker"Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Getting a bid is only half the battle...getting them to pay for it is the real fight. There seems to be quite a few bidders that either don't pay or as I have had, wish to withdraw their bids when they rethink them. I have had many back out like that , leaving me with the ebay fee's to pay. But I recently sold a radio shack TV type antenna rotor...to a chap in Canada for much more than it was worth...go figure.. plus, he had to pay the shipping and duties on the the item. 73's Dave WB4KVZ >From: "Brad Hernlem">To: Hans.Summers@tudor.com >CC: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu >Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again >Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:54:02 +0000 > > > > >>From: Hans Summers > >>I have a related question. A Mullard GZ34 on aBay UK, claimed tested OK, >>priced at over £30, with 9 minutes to go at the time I left work. A search >>on "completed" auctions showed one went recently for £90+! Yet at Farnell >>http://www.farnell.com a brand new "Chelmer" GZ34 incl shipping and tax >>would set you back approx £22. What gives? Do the Audiophiles who like >>GZ34 >>rectifiers not bother to check the price of a new one? > >I think that there IS quite a bit of THAT phenomenon happening on EBay, not >necessarily in this context. I alerted one fellow once to several web based >sources that offered, straight out, Tektronix probes for less than what he >was presently bidding. > >Brad > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:36:18 -0600 From: Jim IsbellSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Then there is the guy...I am dealing with one right now...........that has my money but hasnt sent the tubes. I complained and I got back a simple answer..."I am working on it"...This was a sale that took place three weeks ago and I paid on the first day. Unfortunately I did not check his feedback until after things started looking bad and he has 23 complaints of never receiving goods that were paid for and has been suspended from trading on EBay, but still continues to trade there...I dont understand that at all. E Bay does NOTHING to protect its customers on either side. I had a $250 bid on a radio I was selling, the buyer never answered any posts and E Bay didnt even suspend his trading abilities...but then even if they did, he would have continued to trade just as the guy I am fighting with right now is doing!!!! Ebay will ONLY work for you if you PAY them to do it....but I doubt that you would get your moneys worth even if you did pay the ransom they demand for protecting their OWN customers from whom they extract fees for services NOT RENDERED dave hooker wrote: > Getting a bid is only half the battle...getting them to pay for it is > the real fight. > There seems to be quite a few bidders that either don't pay or as I > have had, wish to withdraw their bids when they rethink them. I have > had many back out like that , leaving me with the ebay fee's to pay. > But I recently sold a radio shack TV type antenna rotor...to a chap in > Canada for much more than it was worth...go figure.. plus, he had to > pay the shipping and duties on the the item. > 73's Dave WB4KVZ > > >> From: "Brad Hernlem">> To: Hans.Summers@tudor.com >> CC: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu >> Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again >> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:54:02 +0000 >> >> >> >> >>> From: Hans Summers >> >> >>> I have a related question. A Mullard GZ34 on aBay UK, claimed tested >>> OK, >>> priced at over £30, with 9 minutes to go at the time I left work. A >>> search >>> on "completed" auctions showed one went recently for £90+! Yet at >>> Farnell >>> http://www.farnell.com a brand new "Chelmer" GZ34 incl shipping and tax >>> would set you back approx £22. What gives? Do the Audiophiles who >>> like GZ34 >>> rectifiers not bother to check the price of a new one? >> >> >> I think that there IS quite a bit of THAT phenomenon happening on >> EBay, not necessarily in this context. I alerted one fellow once to >> several web based sources that offered, straight out, Tektronix >> probes for less than what he was presently bidding. >> >> Brad >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! >> http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose > from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > >
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:59:12 -0700 From: DougSubject: GB> Loctal Sockets........
OK.....someone out there wanted some loctal sockets. Dont remember who it was. 'Found some and would be willing to ship. Just need to know who to send them to. 73 Doug, K7YD
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:31:33 -0500 From: johnSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
--=======35E95A3F======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-77932D60; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 05:36 PM 3/14/04 -0600, Jim Isbell wrote: >Ebay will ONLY work for you if you PAY them to do it.... I am finding this out! After several hundred successful transactions (mostly as a customer) over the past 5 years or so, I finally found a lunatic seller who's impossible to deal with It's really an interesting protection racket they have going ... John --=======35E95A3F======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-77932D60 Content-Disposition: inline --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 3/13/04 --=======35E95A3F=======--
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:18:02 -0600 From: Tom NorrisSubject: GB> "Vintage fuse" or grid leak resistor??
Can anyone take a look at ebay item 3082216212 and tell me what it really is? BTW, the seller has some other nifty looking things too, glowbugge style. (no association with the seller, etc) Tom
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:52:12 -0500 From: Kim HerronSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Hi John (et.al)
>At 05:36 PM 3/14/04 -0600, Jim Isbell wrote:
>
> >Ebay will ONLY work for you if you PAY them to do it....
>
>I am finding this out! After several hundred successful transactions
>(mostly as a customer) over the past 5 years or so, I finally found
>a lunatic seller who's impossible to deal with
>It's really an interesting protection racket they have going ...
>
>John
Do the rest of us a favor and let us know who these people are.
We (at least I) like to know these things so I can avoid these people.
Thanks!!
Kim Herron W8ZV
1-616-677-3706
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:20:46 -0600 From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: GB> "It's a wonderful day in my eBay neighborhood..."
Jim said: >Then there is the guy...I am dealing with one right now...........that >has my money but hasnt sent the tubes. All the more reason to deal with your humble and friendly "theponyengine". Unfortunately, the only thing I've got going on this week is a pair of 7591A's which I'm dangling on a hook in the audiophool pond. Last week, a similar pair caught me a bid of $86.00. Keep in mind, this is a consignment so I'm not pocketing the whole craparee. However, the week before, a comely young lady from Tokyo sent me a money order of $250 for a CX-350 that I'd given a fellow ham's widow five bucks for. NOW WAIT FOR THE REST OF THE STORY, DOGGONE IT!!!. Jeez! Hmmph! The fact was, I was desperately seeking 30's for youse guys back in November when I came across an eBay ad that had a few ST type 30's along with some various other tubes advertised in it-- so I bid accordingly and lost. A couple weeks later, the little old lady contacted me and said the original buyer stiffed her and I could have them for my bid if I still wanted (eBay's 2nd chance option). I went ahead and got them. A day after I paid, the original winner "chetatkinsdiet" contacted her only to find out she had sold them to me, and he went ballistic. He gave her a negative feedback that claimed she defrauded him and sold to a higher bidder on the side, then sent her an e-mail so obscene it would make Sid, my sea-faring parrot, blush (and Sid's truly one dirty bird- www.theponyengine.com/sid.jpg ). I couldn't figure out why anyone would be that rotten about some old 30's. Well, when the tubes got here I found out. I opened the box and there on top was a carefully wrapped CX-350! She had it listed as a UX-30. Even so, I should have seen the huge envelope in the eBay pic. but I was only looking at the 30's and was in a hurry. I guess I figured it was an old 80 as their is no such thing as a UX-30. Anyway, I wrote her back and said, "hey lady, dis ain't no oydinary fire-bottle," and I explained to her why the creep had been so nasty to her. I said I felt bad but she said, "no, no big deal," etc. So I offered to at least split it with her, and she thought that was sweet of me and all, so I cut it in half with a chop-saw. No. I waited 'til the post Christmas slump was over and then sold it http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3079553183 and gave her $125. She said I'm wonderful, which confirms my suspicion and also shows you how easy it is to con senior citizens, I guess. WØJHS's widow incidently. ANYWAY...I have to sheepishly admit, that (knock wood) I have yet to be burned by a buyer, even though half of them are from the Pacific Rim (doing my part to reduce the U.S. trade deficit), (knock twice) I've only been burned once when I was the buyer, and that was when I was a new guy--I don't think I would have burned on it today, (knock thrice) the two or three other times I got a defective tube, or radio, the seller's were very gracious and refunded all my expense, (keep knockin') I still have 100% positive feedback after a hundred and some transactions. I've only had to take a return once, and that guy gave good feedback because I stood by my return policy. Shoot, when I was in the truck business, people would pat me on the back, smile at me and then screw me out of ten grand on a regular basis. As the capo Tessio said right before he got whacked, "Tell Mikey it was just business..." 73, and "you came to the right place, my friend" Tom >----- Original Message ----- rom: "Jim Isbell".Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again Then there is the guy...I am dealing with one right now...........that has my money but hasnt sent the tubes. I complained and I got back a simple answer..."I am working on it"...This was a sale that took place three weeks ago and I paid on the first day. Unfortunately I did not check his feedback until after things started looking bad and he has 23 complaints of never receiving goods that were paid for and has been suspended from trading on EBay, but still continues to trade there...I dont understand that at all. E Bay does NOTHING to protect its customers on either side. I had a $250 bid on a radio I was selling, the buyer never answered any posts and E Bay didnt even suspend his trading abilities...but then even if they did, he would have continued to trade just as the guy I am fighting with right now is doing!!!! Ebay will ONLY work for you if you PAY them to do it....but I doubt that you would get your moneys worth even if you did pay the ransom they demand for protecting their OWN customers from whom they extract fees for services NOT RENDERED dave hooker wrote: > Getting a bid is only half the battle...getting them to pay for it is > the real fight. > There seems to be quite a few bidders that either don't pay or as I > have had, wish to withdraw their bids when they rethink them. I have > had many back out like that , leaving me with the ebay fee's to pay. > But I recently sold a radio shack TV type antenna rotor...to a chap in > Canada for much more than it was worth...go figure.. plus, he had to > pay the shipping and duties on the the item. > 73's Dave WB4KVZ > > >> From: "Brad Hernlem" >> To: Hans.Summers@tudor.com >> CC: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu >> Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again >> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:54:02 +0000 >> >> >> >> >>> From: Hans Summers >> >> >>> I have a related question. A Mullard GZ34 on aBay UK, claimed tested >>> OK, >>> priced at over £30, with 9 minutes to go at the time I left work. A >>> search >>> on "completed" auctions showed one went recently for £90+! Yet at >>> Farnell >>> http://www.farnell.com a brand new "Chelmer" GZ34 incl shipping and tax >>> would set you back approx £22. What gives? Do the Audiophiles who >>> like GZ34 >>> rectifiers not bother to check the price of a new one? >> >> >> I think that there IS quite a bit of THAT phenomenon happening on >> EBay, not necessarily in this context. I alerted one fellow once to >> several web based sources that offered, straight out, Tektronix >> probes for less than what he was presently bidding. >> >> Brad >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! >> http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose > from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > >
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:16:39 -0800 (PST) From: keith fordSubject: GB> Ham Freight
--0-232085646-1079316999=:40432 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is there anyone who is retired or works at home who would be interested in coordinating pickups and drop offs? I believe Brian Carling said he would. Anyone else? keith Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam --0-232085646-1079316999=:40432 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiIs there anyone who is retired or works at home who would be interested in coordinating pickups and drop offs? I believe Brian Carling said he would. Anyone else? keithDo you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam --0-232085646-1079316999=:40432--
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:12:17 EST From: W6jod@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> "Vintage fuse" or grid leak resistor??
--part1_11c.2c9186a3.2d867911_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/14/2004 4:27:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, r390a@bellsouth.net writes: > Can anyone take a look at ebay item 3082216212 and tell me what > it really is? > Looks like or similar to many cartridge type power resistors I've seen in various Broadcast TV transmitters & power supplies. Size is not noted but it is likely bigger than any fuse other than a very large one. 73, Norm Hall, W6JOD --part1_11c.2c9186a3.2d867911_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/14/2004 4:27:4= 0 PM Pacific Standard Time, r390a@bellsouth.net writes:
Can anyone take a look at ebay= item 3082216212 and tell me what
it really is?
Looks like or similar to many cartridge type power resistors I've seen in va= rious Broadcast TV transmitters & power supplies. Size is not note= d but it is likely bigger than any fuse other than a very large one.
73,
Norm Hall, W6JOD --part1_11c.2c9186a3.2d867911_boundary--
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:39:21 -0800 (PST) From: Glen ZookSubject: Re: GB> "Vintage fuse" or grid leak resistor??
Although there is nothing to compare the size with, it sure looks like some of the fuses that were used in various line applications when I worked for TXU (the electric company for about half the State of Texas, gas company for over half, etc.). Most of these had fuse elements that could be replaced when they happened to "blow". Some of the fuses were almost a "foot" long and at least a couple of inches in diameter (some even more!). Glen, K9STH --- W6jod@aol.com wrote: Looks like or similar to many cartridge type power resistors I've seen in various Broadcast TV transmitters & power supplies. Size is not noted but it is likely bigger than any fuse other than a very large one. ===== Glen, K9STH Web sites http://home.comcast.net/~k9sth http://home.comcast.net/~zcomco __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:22:54 -0500 From: Donald E SandersSubject: Re: GB> Ultimate mixers
Nice tubes but not good choice - too hard to find and usually $12 to $15 each.They have gone the way of the TV sweep tube linears. I just refurbished rig that used two in front end. Donn W4BWS On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:28:39 -0500 Bob Kulowwrites: > How about using two nuvistors, like the 6DS4 which is a > remote-cutoff triode, in a Pullen mixer? > > 73 > Bob WA2UEH > Donald Sanders W4BWS PO Box 459 Fellsmere, Fl 32948 321-426-5023 w4bws@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:34:43 +1100 From: "Ian C. Purdie"Subject: GB> ATTN: Scientists and pretenders
I'm in the hopeless process of assisting one of my grandson's with a serious school assignment. Jesse, is in year 5, he needs to research "Hurricanes and Cyclones". Put that into Google and see how many "unprintable" pages emerge because of a total obsession by amateurs with ludicrous backgrounds. Sorry, I'm really angry here. Really, really angry. You have a home page with valuable information? It isn't plain vanilla white background? The page isn't readily printable? You're a serial offender, print your page out. I'm so angry right now, I impress upon my grand-kids the value of the internet, using your brains and searching. And guess what? I was just shot down in flames, my credibility is in shreds. Check with Mr. Google for "Hurricanes and Cyclones", see what you can immediately print out. 72/73's Ian A.K.A. very cranky mouth....
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 04:07:38 -0600 From: dswartSubject: RE: GB> ATTN: Scientists and pretenders
If you go to "page setup" in your browser, or under "preferences" in some browsers, you can turn off printing of background colors and images. Works for me! You can also tell your browser to always print text as BLACK, which saves your butt when pages display white text on a black background. >===== Original Message From "Ian C. Purdie"===== >I'm in the hopeless process of assisting one of my grandson's with a serious >school assignment. > >Jesse, is in year 5, he needs to research "Hurricanes and Cyclones". > >Put that into Google and see how many "unprintable" pages emerge because of a >total obsession by amateurs with ludicrous backgrounds. > >Sorry, I'm really angry here. Really, really angry. > >You have a home page with valuable information? It isn't plain vanilla white >background? The page isn't readily printable? > >You're a serial offender, print your page out. I'm so angry right now, I >impress upon my grand-kids the value of the internet, using your brains and >searching. > >And guess what? I was just shot down in flames, my credibility is in shreds. > >Check with Mr. Google for "Hurricanes and Cyclones", see what you can >immediately print out. > >72/73's > >Ian > >A.K.A. very cranky mouth....
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:25:04 -0600 From: Jim IsbellSubject: GB> The TDSL (Tube Data Sheet Locator) Personal Edition
I just found out about this free download that gives you tube data at your fingertips. Just go to : http://www.duncanamps.com/tdslpe/ and download it for data on 1700 tubes.
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:38:18 -0500 From: "Merz Donald S"Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
A friend of mine buys and sells tubes on the web and on eBay. He has been doing this for at least 6 years. It has been very lucrative for him. He caters to the audiophile and jukebox markets with almost no interest in ham stuff at all. I recently asked him why we see these wide variations in tube prices. The discussion was interesting. It seems that certain audiophiles have made histories of tube manufacturing practices for specific tube types they are interested in. within each type, there are manufacturing variations that are highly prized and some regarded as proof that the tubes are junk. This goes way beyond the brand, sub-type (G, GT, GT/A, etc.) and date code of the tubes. These guys can read specific manufacturer codes to figure out which production line runs created a tube. If they don't have the tube data for this kind of analysis, they also focus heavily on the internal structure of the tube by visually inspecting it through the glass. This is why, when you advertise audiophile tubes on ebay, you will often get requests for close-up pictures of the tube that show its internals. Bob says that when all the criteria are met for a tube--like a specific RCA 6SN7 with a specific date code and other manufacturing codes, and the tube is new in the original box, then prices soar. He does not claim to have it all mastered. But he knows the basics and looks for tubes that are considered most desirable by the audiophiles. I have recently been selling off accumulated 6SN7s and a weird 12AX7 low-mu variant called a 5751. I don't know enough about the 6SN7's to know what the deal is but there are some RCA variants that seem to be attracting serious dollars. Also note that due to the USA's enormous trade deficit, which is mostly due to buying of foreign oil, the dollar is weaker than ever overseas. So foreign buyers are very active right now. It's a hell of a world, that's for sure. 73, Don Merz, N3RHT -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu]On Behalf Of Tom Norris Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 1:55 PM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again Since the list is not too busy today... ahem.... What is the deal with audiophiles and 6SN7's? When online looking for tubes, came across a fellow with a pair of them that *he does not even know have been used or not* (no boxes) that is up over $150 with a buy it now of $300 for a pair. Really wish I could figure out the formula for selling my tubes on Ebay, if I were to sell them, they would bring no more than $5 per, I'm sure.... Tom KA4RKT The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator.(A)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:01:18 -0500 From: "Merz Donald S"Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
As the original e-mailer admitted, he failed to check feedback. This is critical. You must check feedback. Anyone with less than 50-100 feedbacks is a questionmark. Anyone with negative feedbacks is a questionmark. Do you deal with these folks or not? You have a decision to make. It may not be that they intentionally defraud you. But they may be inexperienced at selling and packing--and cause the shipment to be ruined or very late just from sheer incompetence. Also look at their other auctions. If all the other stuff is Harlequin Romance paperback books and the item you are bidding on is an SX-88 in mint condition with a $499 BUY-IT-NOW, that is really suspicious.
Anyone with a ham callsign is usually okay--you can just look up their home address in QRZ, go to the phone book and most of the time have them on the phone in 5 minutes. But I have never found that necessary with hams. Hams are good to deal with.
For large purchases, I always use buyer protection from either PayPal or American Express. Yes, you have to pay for it--the free lunch still does not exist as far as I can tell. PayPal recovered $115 for me once when a buyer tried to rip me off. He had an AOL e-mail address so I should have known better. But PayPal saved the day. So I have proof that their system works.
Check Fortune magazine from about June of last year. They had a great analytical article about fraud on eBay and what eBay can and should do about it. Eventually, ecommerce sites will stop accepting anonymous e-mail addresses like yahoo, aol, hotmail and so forth. They will insist on a verifiable e-mail address. This is what the payment sites like PayPal require today. At that point, the fraud game will get a lot harder for the bad guys.
Last points: Never pay by Western Union money order for anything. WU Money orders are the bad guys currency of choice. And, probably obvious--but we all get caught up in hunting bargains--if it seems too good to be true, it isn't. Walk away.
73, Don Merz, N3RHT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu
[mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu]On Behalf Of Kim Herron
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:52 PM
To: john; Jim Isbell
Cc: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu
Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Hi John (et.al)
>At 05:36 PM 3/14/04 -0600, Jim Isbell wrote:
>
> >Ebay will ONLY work for you if you PAY them to do it....
>
>I am finding this out! After several hundred successful transactions
>(mostly as a customer) over the past 5 years or so, I finally found
>a lunatic seller who's impossible to deal with
>It's really an interesting protection racket they have going ...
>
>John
Do the rest of us a favor and let us know who these people are.
We (at least I) like to know these things so I can avoid these people.
Thanks!!
Kim Herron W8ZV
1-616-677-3706
The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee.
Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorized.
If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator.(A)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:36:24 -0500 From: Kim HerronSubject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Hi Gang,
>A friend of mine buys and sells tubes on the web and on eBay. He has been
>doing this for at least 6 years. It has been very lucrative for him. He
>caters to the audiophile and jukebox markets with almost no interest in
>ham stuff at all. I recently asked him why we see these wide variations in
>tube prices. The discussion was interesting.
>
>It seems that certain audiophiles have made histories of tube
>manufacturing practices for specific tube types they are interested in.
>within each type, there are manufacturing variations that are highly
>prized and some regarded as proof that the tubes are junk. This goes way
>beyond the brand, sub-type (G, GT, GT/A, etc.) and date code of the tubes.
>These guys can read specific manufacturer codes to figure out which
>production line runs created a tube.
Yes I concur with Don, I have a friend here that has gone even
further than that in the audio market. He has several tube testers that he
uses and
has set up test beds for certain tubes that he can configure for certain
amp designs. He can then test these tubes for certain applications
and can GUARANTEE that it will perform as the original amp manufacturer
intended. He looks for noise in a tube with scope
in certain elements and can reject a tube that the rest of the world
probably wouldn't call bad. He only deals with about 25 numbers and
is EXTREMELY fussy about what he sell. He has documentation on RCA and
their facility, even owning one of their engineering manuals
that was never to be seen by the outside world. He paid hundreds of
dollars just for that book. He has a shop that is bigger than my house
just for sorting and test tubes and has built an anechoic chamber for audio
testing of the tube before it's sold. I thought these people were
crazy and he tells me that there are many "snake oil salesman" out there,
but I also now realize that what he say is true and he can prove it
via test gear and your ear (proved it to me). He doesn't buy into the
oxygen free wire and all that stuff, but he does have a point and a fellow
that is trying to obtain certain results can get what he wants from my friend.
Thanks!!
Kim Herron
616-677-3706
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:30:22 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
>From: "Merz Donald S">As the original e-mailer admitted, he failed to check feedback. This is >critical. You must check feedback. Anyone with less than 50-100 feedbacks >is a questionmark. Anyone with negative feedbacks is a questionmark. Do you >deal with these folks or not? You have a decision to make. It may not be >that they intentionally defraud you. But they may be inexperienced at >selling and packing--and cause the shipment to be ruined or very late just >from sheer incompetence. Sometimes excessive patience pays off. I have to agree with what Don states here. I once won a Weller soldering station and went through several months waiting to get it. Initially, I sent a check and waited ... and waited. It turned out the unit was sent to the wrong state. Eventually it got sent the right way but when it arrived, it failed to function. The seller had claimed that they had sold several of these and they were "like new". I wrote back to the seller to ask for a refund. The seller didn't return e-mails. I tried calling and eventually got through. Seller claimed that their computers were down due to a flood. I explained the state of the unit and that the iron appeared to be burned out. I said that I would accept if seller sent me a new iron or else I wanted my money back. Seller had no replacement irons but finally agreed to send my money back and did NOT want the unit shipped back. It took a while longer but eventually I got my money back. As it turned out, and as I had suspected, the station was fine (looked brand new except for the burned iron) and all I had to do was buy a new iron to get it functioning. The cost of the brand new replacement iron was about the same as what I had bid on the whole thing so I ended up getting what I wanted even though it took a lot longer than expected. The point of the story, though, is that this seller was clearly not experienced in handling the volume of sales traffic that they had set upon themself. Several "suspicious" excuses turned out to be legitimate ... or at least the seller proved honest in the end. A less patient buyer might have blown up before everything turned out OK. Brad _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:01:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: wa4qal@ix.netcom.com Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
So, you're saying that that NOS 6SN7 that I picked up last week for $.50 was probably a good deal? I was also happy to get a NOS 5U4 for $.50, too. :-) On another note, I just happened to remember seeing a Tektronix 1L10 spectrum analyzer plugin on the used shelf of a local radio shop for $10 (untested, no idea of whether it worked or not). I've been lusting after a spectrum analyzer for a number of years, but I have 7000 series scopes, and the 1L10 won't fit those. Dave WA4QAL -----Original Message----- From: Merz Donald SSent: Mar 15, 2004 9:38 AM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again A friend of mine buys and sells tubes on the web and on eBay. He has been doing this for at least 6 years. It has been very lucrative for him. He caters to the audiophile and jukebox markets with almost no interest in ham stuff at all. I recently asked him why we see these wide variations in tube prices. The discussion was interesting. It seems that certain audiophiles have made histories of tube manufacturing practices for specific tube types they are interested in. within each type, there are manufacturing variations that are highly prized and some regarded as proof that the tubes are junk. This goes way beyond the brand, sub-type (G, GT, GT/A, etc.) and date code of the tubes. These guys can read specific manufacturer codes to figure out which production line runs created a tube. If they don't have the tube data for this kind of analysis, they also focus heavily on the internal structure of the tube by visually inspecting it through the glass. This is why, when you advertise audiophile tubes on ebay, you will often get requests for close-up pictures of the tube that show its internals. Bob says that when all the criteria are met for a tube--like a specific RCA 6SN7 with a specific date code and other manufacturing codes, and the tube is new in the original box, then prices soar. He does not claim to have it all mastered. But he knows the basics and looks for tubes that are considered most desirable by the audiophiles. I have recently been selling off accumulated 6SN7s and a weird 12AX7 low-mu variant called a 5751. I don't know enough about the 6SN7's to know what the deal is but there are some RCA variants that seem to be attracting serious dollars. Also note that due to the USA's enormous trade deficit, which is mostly due to buying of foreign oil, the dollar is weaker than ever overseas. So foreign buyers are very active right now. It's a hell of a world, that's for sure. 73, Don Merz, N3RHT
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:06:03 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Another point regarding feedback. Don't give alot of weight to the percentage. Read the actual negative feedback AND the guy's response. I would have to say that you can spot most of the crack-pots by their responses to negs. "You LIE! This guy wants sumting (sic) for noting (sic)! BLock Bidder!" for example. Look for similarities in complaints. One guy I know with a 98% rating who has about 25 negs saying he misrepresented the condition of the item, and about an equal number that say the item was damaged because of poor packing. He has a nasty reply for each one. Steer clear. Last night a guy had a "NIB" PK-232 for $40 with no bids, though it was ending. A quick check of his negs showed, first of all, that he spelled like a first grader, and secondly, that he would call something that was inoperable and scratched "mint" and "working perfectly" --then when the buyer complained and left a neg, he would respond "Thsi Buyer Lie! Can't read auction tems -no retuns means NO RETRUNS, DUMMY! F-" For more in-depth insight, take a look at the feedback he leaves for others. A true professional will leave feedback for a buyer as soon as he is paid, or the check clears. Beware of guys that "hold your feedback hostage" until you, the buyer leave HIS feedback. And while you're at it, it's relatively easy to spot guys who leave negative feedback in retaliation for having received negative feedback from the buyer. I avoid these guys like plague. If you're selling quite a bit on eBay, it's like owning any other business...i.e. you shouldn't be a business owner unless you can accept the certainty that you will have bad transactions and debts. You can bank on it, so anticipate it in your budget, like a real business does. If you've never owned a business, you need to understand that that's the way the cookie crumbles when you're in business. Always been that way. If your buying on eBay, take the time to scope out the seller. It's no more effort than going to a hamfest, it's just a different effort. The fact is, I've been burned buying at hamfests plenty of times, but I always knew that this was possible before I made the deal. Only been burned once on eBay, and I would only rate it a first-degree burn. Finally, they say you can't cheat an honest man. I disagree...but many an honest ham has been cheated because he became a little greedy and a little careless in his excitement over the prospect of a deal in which he thought he was going to cut a fat hog in the arse. BTW, did I tell you the one about out the old sow that...oh, yeah. Guess I did. Onnest Tom "I shaft the ohter guy, and pass the svaings on to yew" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merz Donald S"To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:01 AM Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again > As the original e-mailer admitted, he failed to check feedback. This is critical. You must check feedback. Anyone with less than 50-100 feedbacks is a questionmark. Anyone with negative feedbacks is a questionmark. Do you deal with these folks or not? You have a decision to make. It may not be that they intentionally defraud you. But they may be inexperienced at selling and packing--and cause the shipment to be ruined or very late just from sheer incompetence. Also look at their other auctions. If all the other stuff is Harlequin Romance paperback books and the item you are bidding on is an SX-88 in mint condition with a $499 BUY-IT-NOW, that is really suspicious. > > Anyone with a ham callsign is usually okay--you can just look up their home address in QRZ, go to the phone book and most of the time have them on the phone in 5 minutes. But I have never found that necessary with hams. Hams are good to deal with. > > For large purchases, I always use buyer protection from either PayPal or American Express. Yes, you have to pay for it--the free lunch still does not exist as far as I can tell. PayPal recovered $115 for me once when a buyer tried to rip me off. He had an AOL e-mail address so I should have known better. But PayPal saved the day. So I have proof that their system works. > > Check Fortune magazine from about June of last year. They had a great analytical article about fraud on eBay and what eBay can and should do about it. Eventually, ecommerce sites will stop accepting anonymous e-mail addresses like yahoo, aol, hotmail and so forth. They will insist on a verifiable e-mail address. This is what the payment sites like PayPal require today. At that point, the fraud game will get a lot harder for the bad guys. > > Last points: Never pay by Western Union money order for anything. WU Money orders are the bad guys currency of choice. And, probably obvious--but we all get caught up in hunting bargains--if it seems too good to be true, it isn't. Walk away. > > 73, Don Merz, N3RHT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu > [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu]On Behalf Of Kim Herron > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:52 PM > To: john; Jim Isbell > Cc: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu > Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again > > > Hi John (et.al) > >At 05:36 PM 3/14/04 -0600, Jim Isbell wrote: > > > > >Ebay will ONLY work for you if you PAY them to do it.... > > > >I am finding this out! After several hundred successful transactions > >(mostly as a customer) over the past 5 years or so, I finally found > >a lunatic seller who's impossible to deal with > >It's really an interesting protection racket they have going ... > > > >John > > Do the rest of us a favor and let us know who these people are. > We (at least I) like to know these things so I can avoid these people. > > > > Thanks!! > > Kim Herron W8ZV > 1-616-677-3706 > > The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. > Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorized. > If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator.(A) > >
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:35:07 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
I have been trading on the bay for over four years now. I have nearly 400 sales and close to 60 purchases. There have been times when I was dissapointed but I can't say that I was outright cheated. During that time there was only one radio I purchased, (a Kenwood, 2-meter, all mode), that worked perfectly without any need for repair or tweaking. That radio was purchased from a ham. However, there were other radios purchased from other hams that did not fare as well. I don't consider my experiences unique to the bay. People are more apt to sell equipment they don't need. Sometimes they don't need it because it is not working right. Sometimes they may even tell you that it is not up to par. More usually, they really don't know there is something amiss (even if they are hams), other than a newer radio works better. So, you pays your money and takes your chances. Buying something sight unseen from someone you don't know on the bay is really not that much removed from buying something used at a hamfest. Yes, you can see it at the hamfest, but you still don't know the fellow and usually can't check it out to see if it works as it should. So, before buying used equipment, make sure you are prepared to do repairs if needed. There is no such thing as used equipment in mint condition. If it really were in mint condition, it would be advertised as being new. I have learned to look for these phrases in an equipment description. Mint condition It worked the last time I used it. It is working now but I can't guarantee it will not be damaged in shipping I have no idea what this is. I know nothing about this item. The lights came on when I plugged it in and turned it on. Buyer pays shipping AND HANDLING. When is see these phrases, I avoid the auction. I also avoid anything priced over $200 and stuff where the shipping is going to be more than the selling price. Regards, Frank Kamp K5DKZ
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:40:31 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
wa4qal@ix.netcom.com wrote: > So, you're saying that that NOS 6SN7 that I picked up last week for $.50 was probably > a good deal? I was also happy to get a NOS 5U4 for $.50, too. :-) > Good deal? Yes, if they were good tubes. I have seen tubes advertised as NOS in original boxes that had open filaments. > On another note, I just happened to remember seeing a Tektronix 1L10 spectrum > analyzer plugin on the used shelf of a local radio shop for $10 (untested, no idea of > whether it worked or not). I've been lusting after a spectrum analyzer for a number Picky, picky, picky. I would bet that thing has at least $10 worth of parts in it. Heck, the salvagable hardware (nuts and bolts) should be worth at least that. Regards, Frank Kamp K6DKZ
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:09:21 -0600 From: msmith@licor.com Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Hi Don, Very good advice. i agree with all of that. I have been ePaying since 1999. Only a couple bad experiences for me, one of which I will relate below. I do have a question though. (I pay with postal money orders or cash) What is it with Western Union money orders?? What could someone do with those that they cannot do with a postal money order? I don't get it. > Last points: Never pay by Western Union money order for anything. WU > Money orders are the bad guys currency of choice. Ok, me story: Jim, N2EY, touted the tuning cap in the BC221 a few times, so I decided I would see about getting one and check it out for myself. he also said the rest of the parts in there are made of pure gold. Heck, the price of gold these days, I could stand to be rich beyond measure if I could get one of these! So I look on epay and see a couple of them. One was $5, the other $7.95 starting bids. I bid on both, but only the starting bid, no higher. I figured I would lose both auctions anyway. Well, I won both auctions. The $5 one has a homebrew power supply with it. The $5 one needed about 24 in shipping. Ok... about 5 times the auction price, but to get a shipment of pure gold and be rich beyond belief was worth that. This one is in California. The other one is in Florida. Ths guy wants the $7.95 and about $45 to ship it, and it does not have any power supply or anything with it. I asked if it was full of batteries or something, but no. I told him about the other one and asked why his shipping is so high. I got the box dimentions and wieght from him and plugged it into the UPS site and find it is WAY less than what he wants. I asked him about that. He was adamant that this was his price. Then he used the "shipping and HANDLING" words on me. I figure he is disappointed in not having gotten rich beyond belief himself and decided that he could gouge me some more. (this is one aspect of epay that bugs me, you don't always have a clear view of what shipping will be) So, I decided that rather than get gouged that much, that I would elect to not have it shipped. I emailed him and said that I will send him $7.95 and he can set it out for the trash or relist it. I think he gets the message. ( HEY... this gives me an idea... He is in Spring Hill, FL. Anyone here live in that town that wants it??? I will send him the $7.95 and tell him my associate will pick it up at his house. Then you can just keep it. Remember, it's pure gold on the inside) Just let me know if you want it. Gary???? Bry??? where is he in relation to your QTH?) I will get the other one and its power supply and call up the car dealer and order a new minivan with all the options. It will be so nice to just pay cash for a car! Thanks Jim, I can't wait to sit in the lap of luxury. One other thought on ePay: Does anyone else get bugged by people that put up stuff on QTH.net or other places like that, and you click on it, only to find they are just advertising their ePay auction? The reason I go to QTH or whereever, it to find something that is NOT on ePay.... I think I will put up a couple 6SN7s... gee, mine have black plates. 73 Michael
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:03:39 -0500 From: "Merz Donald S"Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Thanks for your note. WU money orders do not have to be delivered to an address. The recipient can pick them up at any local WU agent--like a drug store. A WU MO recipient is not traceable in any of the easy, conventional ways that you or I might use. BTW, a postal MO is no protection at all. All the advantages of a postal MO payment accrue to the person receiving the MO and none to the sender. Yes, you can file a mail fraud claim. Yes, you can follow up with your state and local fraud authorities. But NOTHING will happen. Nothing. Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt and used it for a rag. Postal MOs are a complete waste of money. Unless you are the recipient. Then they are a great form of guaranteed payment. I sometimes buy and sell pro audio music equipment. You want scum? Try the music business. 50% of all deals fall through for one reason or another. You cannot trust a soul. The pro audio business taught me a lesson--Amex or PayPal. Anything else and I am out. 73, Don Merz, N3RHT -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu]On Behalf Of msmith@licor.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:09 PM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again Hi Don, Very good advice. i agree with all of that. I have been ePaying since 1999. Only a couple bad experiences for me, one of which I will relate below. I do have a question though. (I pay with postal money orders or cash) What is it with Western Union money orders?? What could someone do with those that they cannot do with a postal money order? I don't get it. > Last points: Never pay by Western Union money order for anything. WU > Money orders are the bad guys currency of choice. Ok, me story: Jim, N2EY, touted the tuning cap in the BC221 a few times, so I decided I would see about getting one and check it out for myself. he also said the rest of the parts in there are made of pure gold. Heck, the price of gold these days, I could stand to be rich beyond measure if I could get one of these! So I look on epay and see a couple of them. One was $5, the other $7.95 starting bids. I bid on both, but only the starting bid, no higher. I figured I would lose both auctions anyway. Well, I won both auctions. The $5 one has a homebrew power supply with it. The $5 one needed about 24 in shipping. Ok... about 5 times the auction price, but to get a shipment of pure gold and be rich beyond belief was worth that. This one is in California. The other one is in Florida. Ths guy wants the $7.95 and about $45 to ship it, and it does not have any power supply or anything with it. I asked if it was full of batteries or something, but no. I told him about the other one and asked why his shipping is so high. I got the box dimentions and wieght from him and plugged it into the UPS site and find it is WAY less than what he wants. I asked him about that. He was adamant that this was his price. Then he used the "shipping and HANDLING" words on me. I figure he is disappointed in not having gotten rich beyond belief himself and decided that he could gouge me some more. (this is one aspect of epay that bugs me, you don't always have a clear view of what shipping will be) So, I decided that rather than get gouged that much, that I would elect to not have it shipped. I emailed him and said that I will send him $7.95 and he can set it out for the trash or relist it. I think he gets the message. ( HEY... this gives me an idea... He is in Spring Hill, FL. Anyone here live in that town that wants it??? I will send him the $7.95 and tell him my associate will pick it up at his house. Then you can just keep it. Remember, it's pure gold on the inside) Just let me know if you want it. Gary???? Bry??? where is he in relation to your QTH?) I will get the other one and its power supply and call up the car dealer and order a new minivan with all the options. It will be so nice to just pay cash for a car! Thanks Jim, I can't wait to sit in the lap of luxury. One other thought on ePay: Does anyone else get bugged by people that put up stuff on QTH.net or other places like that, and you click on it, only to find they are just advertising their ePay auction? The reason I go to QTH or whereever, it to find something that is NOT on ePay.... I think I will put up a couple 6SN7s... gee, mine have black plates. 73 Michael The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator.(A)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:16:42 -0600 From: Jim IsbellSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
fkamp@comcast.net wrote: >I also avoid anything priced over $200 and stuff where the shipping is going to be more than the selling price. > > Interesting comment because I have bought things that were quite expensive, even a motorhome, on the internet and found no real problems. BUT....I had someone I trusted inspect the item and in the case of the Motorhome, drive it. On the other hand the worst I got burned as a Seller...didnt really lose any money, just a bogus bidder that ran the bid up (from Korea) and then wouldnt pay...was a radio that went to $250 and should have gone at $50. The biggest thing I ever sold was a 44 foot steel hulled Schooner (16 tons) that went for $25,200 and the transaction went smoothly....of course he was getting a $100,000 boat of 25 cents on the dollar.
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:24:03 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
> > Then he used the "shipping and HANDLING" words on me. > I figure he decided that he could ...gouge me some more. (this is one aspect of epay > that bugs me, you don't always have a clear view of what shipping will be) > Mike (another satisifed customer of your humble "ponyengine", by the way) has brought up another point...the matter of "handling". This is a huge controversy amongst eBay sellers, and I won't go into that. But, be advised that when you sign up for eBay, you are certifying that you will be bound by the auction terms. If shipping and handling is not spelled out and you don't inquire before leg, you haven't got a hand to stand on. Lots of people just flat will not buy from anyone who doesn't give a fixed S&H price. If you see something worth the money, but have doubts about S&H, send an e-mail (it's only two clicks) and pin the guy down. Watch out for "buyer to pay ACTUAL shipping costs". Most people who say this are legit, but some will say that their shipping cost ACTUALLY includes boxes, peanuts, tape, labels, ink, labor to pack @$50/hr, gasoline to P.O., depreciation on car, tire wear, liability insurance, self-employment tax, etc. etc. etc. Many will only ship priority, because the P.O. furnishes the boxes for free. Instead, look for a guy, say, like me (heh, hehhh). I am loathe to put a fixed shipping cost in the ad, because I would have to make it high enough to cover a worst case scenario. I want my customers to get the lowest total payment they can get because it makes me look good. So, if you look a one of my ads, you'll see that all you have to do is scroll down to my "ZonAlyzer" and enter your zip code (or country) and click the button. Wham-o! There's your total shipping cost (except optional insurance), usually with two options. Often Priority doesn't get to the customer any quicker that 1st Class but costs a couple bucks more. I give you the choice. If you read further you'll see that the good ol' proprietor of "theponyengine" tells you that what you a paying for is his actual cost of postage or freight, + delivery confirmation (or Certificate of Mailing if it's out of the country). You'll also note that he specifically states that you are not being charged for materials or handling. He tells you about insurance and that it isn't included, and what happens if if the freight company damages it. Couldn't do it better myself... I mean, uh... Also, you'll see a return policy that doesn't leave a whole lot to the imagination. This is the kind of guy I like. > One other thought on ePay: Does anyone else get bugged by people that put > up stuff on QTH.net or other places like that, and you click on it, only to > find they are just advertising their ePay auction? Some newsgroups state that they don't want auction ads on there group. A decent eBay guy gets the group's FAQ before posting, to see if he's welcome or not. Then, if he is, it is common courtesy for a decent eBayer to put the letters "FA:" at the beginning of his subject line, so that those not interested in auctions can just hit the delete button. Guys that violate this rule are asking to get flamed publically and sometimes quite hilariously as well. > I think I will put up a couple 6SN7s... gee, mine have black plates. Good luck. If they are Sylvania chrome-tops with triangle plates and green lettering you should do okay. I sold a couple for ten bucks + freight to a guy in Austria, I think it was, a few weeks ago. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3071184892 "...and we thank you for shopping "theponyengine" Tom
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:42:28 -0600 From: "Sandy W5TVW"Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
I had a piece of gear that some Jap bid on and won, then he didn't want to pay the shipping costs. Insisted on another carrier that didn't exist or have a web site. I had told him ahead of time shipping was going to be expensive, but he outbid everyone else in spite of that. Too add to it he gave a nasty negative feedback note. Some you win some you lose! 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Isbell"Cc: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:16 PM Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again | | | fkamp@comcast.net wrote: | | >I also avoid anything priced over $200 and stuff where the shipping is going to be more than the selling price. | > | > | | Interesting comment because I have bought things that were quite | expensive, even a motorhome, on the internet and found no real problems. | BUT....I had someone I trusted inspect the item and in the case of the | Motorhome, drive it. | | On the other hand the worst I got burned as a Seller...didnt really lose | any money, just a bogus bidder that ran the bid up (from Korea) and then | wouldnt pay...was a radio that went to $250 and should have gone at $50. | | The biggest thing I ever sold was a 44 foot steel hulled Schooner (16 | tons) that went for $25,200 and the transaction went smoothly....of | course he was getting a $100,000 boat of 25 cents on the dollar. | |
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:03:17 -0600 From: Jim IsbellSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
On the subject of Red Flags in an auction, there is an interesting piece of Collins equipment for sale right now that has a RED flag in the text. Its #3084137408. In the text the seller says he has made several contacts on 40 meters and on 75 meters and had favorable comments on the signal. His quote is that the signal reports all were "you sound very loud". Now I have never heard a Ham give such a signal report in the 40+ years I have been a Ham.. This really sounds fishy to me. I'll bet he never got it on the air!
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:10:44 -0600 From: Tom NorrisSubject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Michael Smith wrote.... >I do have a question though. (I pay with postal money orders or cash) What >is it with Western Union money orders?? What could someone do with those >that they cannot do with a postal money order? I don't get it. > >> Last points: Never pay by Western Union money order for anything. WU >> Money orders are the bad guys currency of choice. Indeed. I have always wondered about WU money orders myself. I do understand, and share, the reluctance to buy from someone who is "cash or money order only" especially if they seller has one piece of electronic gear out of a thousand listing for Avon bottles, used baby clothes and romance novels, and has worded the listing as "I have no idea what this is/how to test/ if it works, etc." I quickly run away from the same type of seller who says all that, but adds "but I know it is working properly" (even though they have no idea what the thing is!) as well as lists it as "AS IS" on top of all that. The "I have no idea what it is" line is especially annoying when it is a military item with a clearly marked name plate on the front!! Bonus point go to the seller of a clearly marked/tagged military item if they give some wild off the mark description that contradicts the clearly photographed ID tag. Even more bonus point if I email the seller the correct identity of the item and they reply back with hate mail. Misspellings don't bother me that much as I always have to use spell check myself. But... There is one seller -- a nationally recognized ham radio store that will go unnamed -- that gets a special "spelling award" for selling Saratoga PSK interfaces by the name of "saragoga" even after a couple emails alerting them to that error. The listing shows the logos of the items they sell, including Saratoga, but they simply hit "relist" and don't pay it any mind, the fellow who answered my email admitted. Grr. I have listed items "as is" that I have been too lazy or unable to test and I say so in the listing. But I don't tell the buyer that an item that I have no clue about works fine! >(this is one aspect of epay >that bugs me, you don't always have a clear view of what shipping will be) I agree. I wonder what other realization, other than greed, can make one charge that much handling? I have seen small items with $20+ handing fees . I could take a half dozen packages to a pack and ship place for that price should I not want to pack them myself. And the same thing goes for insurance. I almost bid on a couple items from one seller recently, then I noticed that insurance was $12 per item, handling was another $10, plus $15 shipping, overnight via Airborne Express only, no combining shipments for discount. The items were *buy it now* $15 DMMs! Needless to say, I didn't buy. I have seen folks list $1 items have similar or EVEN HIGHER "handling fees." See it a lot with small computer parts, mostly. The sad part is folks seemed to be bidding/buying their items regularly. I guess they rely on folks not reading the fine print... But... when I have sold stuff, I have had folk refuse to pay if they had to pay a nickle over shipping, they did not care if I had to buy new packing material in order to ship it safely - even if I list that I may have to do so. A couple of years ago I had a $2900 radio already packed and ready to ship overseas, and the guy refused to pay because he looked up the shipping charges and I asked $20 more than BAX Global did on their web page. I had in the listing that "extra packing materials may be needed at additional cost depending on destination." The item was a nice (@LOOK@ MINT @WOW@) 51S1, and didn't have the proper sized boxes or foam to double box it, so had to buy new. Amazing that if he could afford *that much* for the radio, he could have spent the extra for me to pack it properly. No gouging, just the cost of materials. I re-listed and sold it a week later for about the same price to guy in the states. (this guy insisted I not put any sort on invoice inside, so I'm pretty sure it was just on its way to Japan as the first listing was. I have no problem with selling radios to Japanese collectors, if they appreciate them, that's a good thing. Especially if they want to pay that kind of price for a radio.) Also, when I have listed "ballpark" or flat rate shipping, instead of "actual plus any packing materials needed" I have almost always gotten emails accusing me of price inflation. Cant' win either way it seems. Had a fellow bid and win an item I had listed back several months ago and he *refused* to pay my flat rate that was listed. Raised all kinds of heck, talked about emailing Ebay and having me removed for price gouging, etc. So I agreed with him, and charged him exactly what it cost to ship. Actual shipping was about $5 more than my original flat rate, but he was happy with that price - I guess because he could go to UPS web page and look up the cost and be satisfied he did not pay a penny more than the shipping rate. All in all, I've had very good luck on ebay both buying and selling. Part of it is because I do some of the very same "check the seller" things that have been suggested. I have only had to do one refund - this past week for an item sold in December that I promised was not DOA. Turned out to not work 100%, so they are sending it back. Only one negative as a buyer, that was my first actual purchase on ebay -- a $1 bumper sticker from a guy in Georgia. I kept emailing him and asking shipping cost, address to send payment, etc. He never answered ANY of the emails, but gave me negative feedback for nonpayment! It's all part of having fun on Ebay, I suppose. Now off to find my graphite plate, gold pinned, silica glass bronze based 6SN7s I have around here somewhere. :-) Tom
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:46:29 EST From: TelegrapherQRF@aol.com Subject: GB> Fwd: ID'ing Crystals
--part1_1ee.1b89aff9.2d876215_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_1ee.1b89aff9.2d876215_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path:From: TelegrapherQRF@aol.com Full-name: TelegrapherQRF Message-ID: <65.24542ad8.2d8639de@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:42:38 EST Subject: ID'ing Crystals To: milsurplus@mailman.qth.net CC: Glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu SOC@mailman.qth.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part2_1ee.1b89aff9.2d8639de_boundary" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10721 --part2_1ee.1b89aff9.2d8639de_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Lists I am asking for help locating and posessing a copy of ?? pamphlet -?? couple of individual loose pages/ papers ?? - however configuered. The title is " Identifying Surplus Crystals" .....case styles , holders, and military channel lists. I do not know how many pages are involved . I do not know what organization or person put it together. I am not sure (but believe) that this is the precise title. Infotronics sold his one copy a year ago to someone whose name he did not know.!! ALSO; ........what is the most likely CW or crystal reflector I might put this question toward ? Reply directly or to the group 73 Dick P.S. where did all those Case-140's go ???? --part2_1ee.1b89aff9.2d8639de_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Lists
I am asking for help locating and posessing a copy of ?? pamphl= et -?? couple of individual loose pages/ papers ?? - however configuered.
The title is " Identifying Surplus Crystals" .....case styles ,= holders, and military channel lists.
I do not know how many pages are involved . I do not know what=20= organization or person put it together. I am not sure (but believe) that thi= s is the precise title.
Infotronics sold his one copy a year ago to someone whose name=20= he did not know.!!
ALSO; ........what is the most likely CW or crystal= reflector I might put this question toward ?
Reply directly or to the group
73 Dick &nbs= p; &n= bsp; = P.S. where did all th= ose Case-140's go ???? --part2_1ee.1b89aff9.2d8639de_boundary-- --part1_1ee.1b89aff9.2d876215_boundary--
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:35:08 -0600 From: Tom NorrisSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
Jim Isbell wrote - >Interesting comment because I have bought things that were quite >expensive, even a motorhome, on the internet and found no real >problems. BUT....I had someone I trusted inspect the item and in the >case of the Motorhome, drive it. There was a recent thread on the Mercedes diesel list about buying selling vehicles on ebay, always recommended doing just that because most old M-B diesels seem to go for more than they are worth. As well as radios, I have bought and sold cars on Ebay. Only bought one that I could not drive first, and that was a mistake. I have sold 7 older Mercedes diesels, plus one 1962 Unimog. (GB/BA content - it was an ex- Bundeswehr radio truck that was originally stocked with lots of heavy tube gear. This was the type of truck that I was commenting still had GRC-9's in them that were inventoried through the 1990's. Mine was pretty much stripped of radio gear, though.) Never had a problem with any of the sales since the folks came by in person to pick them up and paid by certified check after seeing the vehicle in person. It's amazing how for some folks with drive to trailer home a parts car. Radios are much much easier to ship! Tom
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:52:37 -0600 From: msmith@licor.com Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again
> But... when I have sold stuff, I have had folk refuse to pay if they > had to pay a nickle over shipping, they did not care if I had I tell them that the shipping cost is what I calculated it will be rounded up to the nearest dollar. If shipping is more than that, I make it up. If it is more than a dollar too high, I send them the refund. Never had a complaint on shipping cost. Anyone down there in Florida want that BC221? I went to the post office at lunch time and mailed some stuff, but held that guy's payment back in case someone wants to pick it up and have it. Michael
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:54:16 EST From: Tbs50A@aol.com Subject: GB> Could anyone use a scope cart?
-------------------------------1079380456 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got a Tektronix cart model C with drawer and power plug in good shape. If you can use it you can have it. Would prefer pickup in the Phila. Pa area but can ship. Pic's available Terry N3GTE -------------------------------1079380456 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableI got a Tektronix cart model C with draw= er and power plug in good shape. If you can use it you can have it. Would pr= efer pickup in the Phila. Pa area but can ship. Pic's available<= /DIV>Terry N3GTE-------------------------------1079380456--Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:13:28 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again Tom, I'd like to hear some pointers from you about selling vehicles on eBay sometime at your convenience. I've got a '72 Charger Rallye with the 440 magnum I want to sell on eBay, but have no experience with eBay Motors and am therefore a little nervous. They tell me it's sort of rare, just a few hundred built. 73, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Norris"To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 1:35 PM Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again > > Jim Isbell wrote - > >Interesting comment because I have bought things that were quite > >expensive, even a motorhome, on the internet and found no real > >problems. BUT....I had someone I trusted inspect the item and in the > >case of the Motorhome, drive it. > > There was a recent thread on the Mercedes diesel list about buying > selling vehicles > on ebay, always recommended doing just that because most old M-B diesels seem > to go for more than they are worth. > > As well as radios, I have bought and sold cars on Ebay. Only bought one that I > could not drive first, and that was a mistake. I have sold 7 older Mercedes > diesels, plus one 1962 Unimog. (GB/BA content - it was an ex- Bundeswehr radio > truck that was originally stocked with lots of heavy tube gear. This was the > type of truck that I was commenting still had GRC-9's in them that were > inventoried through the 1990's. Mine was pretty much stripped of radio gear, > though.) > > Never had a problem with any of the sales since the folks came by in person > to pick them up and paid by certified check after seeing the vehicle in person. > It's amazing how for some folks with drive to trailer home a parts car. Radios > are much much easier to ship! > > Tom > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:10:18 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: Re: GB> Fwd: ID'ing CrystalsDon't recognize the addresser and not expecting any attachments, so have deleted the information that was attached. sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. Ray "Politicians are like nappies. Both should be changed regularly -- and for the same reason" "Scotsman - Scotsman's Diary 12/97" Ray Colbert, W5XE, OOTC#3618, SOWP#1064M SOC#78 fp #111 ARCI-5784 NCT2R El Paso,(FAR WEST) TEXASDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:06:23 -0600 From: Tom NorrisSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again I think my favorite of the clueless seller looking for clueless buyer auctions was last year or the year before there was a guy selling a 75S3 that "transmits fine, made many contacts with this" !!! All his other items were, of course estate finds that he had no idea about. Most were marked "don't know anything about the item, but it works fine" or similar wording. What is it about the estate hunters out there? We had a local Hunter by the name of Chuck Grossman. Everything he sold was "rare" -- had rotted RAKs and RALs with no paint for $200, a beat up ART-13 with holes in it for $500, stuff like that. His plain old broadcast radios were priced as badly. And he used to boast about getting truckloads of stuff like this for under $100 - TO HIS CUSTOMERS! When he was moving to Florida, he had three semi-trailer loads of this stuff, I think he sells it on ebay every now and again. Not sure if he took all three trailerloads with him. Conard (WS4S) may remember his ebay ID... The good thing about this guy when he was up here in Nashville is that all his tubes were just a couple bucks, audiophiles only a bit more. And he checked all the used ones when you bought them, so no pig in a poke tubes. LOL Tom Jim Isbell >On the subject of Red Flags in an auction, there is an interesting >piece of Collins equipment for sale right now that has a RED flag in >the text. Its #3084137408. In the text the seller says he has made >several contacts on 40 meters and on 75 meters and had favorable >comments on the signal. His quote is that the signal reports all >were "you sound very loud". Now I have never heard a Ham give such >a signal report in the 40+ years I have been a Ham.. This really >sounds fishy to me. I'll bet he never got it on the air!Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:21:43 -0600 From: "Freeberg, Scott (STP)"Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again Since we're on the subject, my favorite is the "I don't know what it is, but its rare and my high starting bid reflects it" :))))) 73, Scott WA9WFA -Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:29:38 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: GB> I need a trucker...Iowa to Colorado Well, I believe I'll be in a position to test the trucker/RVer freight system sometime in the coming days or weeks. The freight is a TX-1. It is bound for Colorado Springs, but the recipient can meet you at truck-stop E. of Denver. The pickup point can be about anywhere in N.E. 1/4 of Iowa, including along I-80 from Iowa City to Brooklyn, I-35 at Mason City, anywhere on I-380/Avenue of the Saints route N. of I-80, Cedar Rapids, Waterloo, whatever. I will assist in loading, recipient will assist in unloading. If your goin' my way in the next month, please contact me and give me an idea as to how you would like to be compensated. Thanks, TomDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:11:30 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: GB> Capacitor Plate Spacing Getting off the EBay topic for a bit, could someone explain to me the definition of spacing in air variable capacitors? When one reads that a certain capacitor has 1/4" spacing, is it the spacing of the actual air gap or the spacing between the midpoints of the blades? I found up a couple of big caps at the industrial/commercial surplus joint a few days ago. One of them is made by National, is split stator 100 pF per section and has thick plates which are spaced every 1/2" if you consider the midpoints on the stator or rotor. This means that the spacing of the plates is 1/4" back and forth between the stator and rotor but the actual air gaps are more like 3/16". So what is the correct spacing spec for that unit? 1/4" or 3/16" (or 1/2")? Brad _________________________________________________________________ Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up blocking! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:55:02 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> Fwd: ID'ing Crystals Ditto. I expect it's benign... Someone posting a message in HTML and the mailing list stripped the text and wrapped it in an attachment. But I never take chances, in spite of a current virus checker on the system. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of w5xe@juno.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:10 PM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: Re: GB> Fwd: ID'ing Crystals Don't recognize the addresser and not expecting any attachments, so have deleted the information that was attached. sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. Ray "Politicians are like nappies. Both should be changed regularly -- and for the same reason" "Scotsman - Scotsman's Diary 12/97" Ray Colbert, W5XE, OOTC#3618, SOWP#1064M SOC#78 fp #111 ARCI-5784 NCT2R El Paso,(FAR WEST) TEXASDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:55:55 -0500 From: johnSubject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again --=======70BE6B5======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-86C3D37; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 10:01 AM 3/15/04 -0500, Merz Donald S wrote: >Check Fortune magazine from about June of last year. They had a great analytical article about fraud on eBay and what eBay can and should do about it. Eventually, ecommerce sites will stop accepting anonymous e-mail addresses like yahoo, aol, hotmail and so forth. They will insist on a verifiable e-mail address. This is what the payment sites like PayPal require today. At that point, the fraud game will get a lot harder for the bad guys. They better get a handle on SPAM prior to that, or they wont have any customers. Giving a merchant your real e-address is almost the kiss of death, these days... John K5MO --=======70BE6B5======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-86C3D37 Content-Disposition: inline --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 3/13/04 --=======70BE6B5=======--Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:11:18 -0800 (PST) From: Glen ZookSubject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again AOL addresses are "valid", not anonymous. AOL is the ISP for millions of people. Now, yahoo, like what I use for things like reflectors that seem to acquire a lot of SPAM, is an anonymous E-Mail address if you so choose. I do have E-Mail addresses through my ISP and I don't try to "hide" them. Unfortunately, I do get a small number of SPAM messages to those E-Mail addresses, but nothing like what I get on yahoo. I don't use AOL but my wife has several relatives and I have a number of friends who do use it as their ISP. Glen, K9STH --- johnwrote: Eventually, ecommerce sites will stop accepting anonymous e-mail addresses like yahoo, aol, hotmail and so forth. They will insist on a verifiable e-mail address. ===== Glen, K9STH Web sites http://home.comcast.net/~k9sth http://home.comcast.net/~zcomco __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:20:09 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again ----- Original Message ----- From: "john"> They better get a handle on SPAM prior to that, or they wont have any > customers. Giving a merchant your real e-address is almost the kiss of > death, these days... > Not really sure about what you mean, John. Are you meaning giving eBay your e-address? I've got one address that I use for eBay and PayPal only. Had it for quite a few months now. At first I always had my ISP filter the spam and automatically delete it. Awhile back I changed my configuration to shunt the spam to a separate folder so I could see if I was missing anything legitimate. So far, not a single e-mail, bulk, spam, or otherwise, has shown up (knock on wood). Right now, the problem that worries me is that sometimes my invoices or other legitimate e-mail to my customers wind up being filtered at their end. Time goes by and they think I'm slow to respond, which is not good for business. I don't know how to solve that one other than putting a message on the auction that warns potential bidders of this problem. Which is what I do. Looking at people's feedback, you often see buyers leaving negs saying that the seller never followed up after the auction and ignored e-mails -- then the seller says he never received any e-mails from the buyer and will gladly rectify the situation. I wonder how often this is really a spam filter issue? 73, Tom > > --- > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 3/13/04 > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:30:08 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: Re: GB> FT-243 crystals... > Er.... ePay says: > > "This seller is not currently offering any items for sale." Huh? Check Item number: 3085158307 Did I write the incorrect seller's name?.... Ken W7EKBDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:33:52 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: Re: GB> FT-243 crystals... > Ken, > > I came up empty searching for this seller, nothing current and nothing > under completed auctions. Sure you got the right guy? > > 73, Bob W9RAN Obviously not. Try this Item number: 3085158307 Sorry about that, fellows. Ken W7EKBDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:05:36 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: Re: GB> SW-3 Refreshing Simplicity...usable sensitivity... On 10 Mar 2004 at 11:19, lew t. fitch wrote: > The noise levels at frequencies below 30 MHz or so are so high that > the limit on a receiver is not its sensitivity, but whether the signal > exceeds the noise. Most tube sets are lots more sensitive than they > need to be. A short piece of wire will produce microvolts of noise, so > a nanovolt sensitivity is wasted. Using a highly directive antenna > will help in that the signal to noise ratio in a particular direction > is improved, but the noise still is the limit. Lew W4VRV Lew: In general, what you say above may be true. However, the noise level is NOT steady and constant, but can vary possibly as much as 30 db. The average noise level is just that: an average. Speaking from experience, even on 80 meters, sub-microvolt receiver sensitivity can be a big help to dig the weak ones out of even a low noise level at times. I prefer to have the lowest internally generated noise and the highest sensitivity, combined with good over-load capability as I can get. There are times when a receiver with poorer preformance simply won't cut it. Ken W7EKBDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:12:29 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again I haven't had any spam problems with e-bay or paypal either. Long ago I used to have a yahoo account to give out, but haven't bothered in a couple of years now. I use just my "main" e-mail address for everything. I get 50 or so e-mails a day - I have two businesses and personal stuff that gets regular e-mails. Among the daily mail are two or three - if that - SPAMs each day. I don't give my e-mail to any site that doesn't promise to keep it close. In my own business, NO one gets anyone's e-mail address from me for any reason. We don't sell, trade or give away any e-mail addresses, EVER! >From where I sit, the SPAM situation has gotten a LOT better over the past couple of years. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of Tom NØJMY - AAR7FV Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:20 PM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu; john Subject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again ----- Original Message ----- From: "john"> They better get a handle on SPAM prior to that, or they wont have any > customers. Giving a merchant your real e-address is almost the kiss > of death, these days... > Not really sure about what you mean, John. Are you meaning giving eBay your e-address? I've got one address that I use for eBay and PayPal only. Had it for quite a few months now. At first I always had my ISP filter the spam and automatically delete it. Awhile back I changed my configuration to shunt the spam to a separate folder so I could see if I was missing anything legitimate. So far, not a single e-mail, bulk, spam, or otherwise, has shown up (knock on wood). Right now, the problem that worries me is that sometimes my invoices or other legitimate e-mail to my customers wind up being filtered at their end. Time goes by and they think I'm slow to respond, which is not good for business. I don't know how to solve that one other than putting a message on the auction that warns potential bidders of this problem. Which is what I do. Looking at people's feedback, you often see buyers leaving negs saying that the seller never followed up after the auction and ignored e-mails -- then the seller says he never received any e-mails from the buyer and will gladly rectify the situation. I wonder how often this is really a spam filter issue? 73, Tom > > --- > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 3/13/04 > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:01:17 -0500 From: johnSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again --=======1A7616AC======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-86C3D37; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 05:20 PM 3/15/04 -0600, Tom N=D8JMY - AAR7FV wrote: > > >----- Original Message -----=20 >From: "john"> >> They better get a handle on SPAM prior to that, or they wont have any >> customers. Giving a merchant your real e-address is almost the kiss of >> death, these days... >> > >Not really sure about what you mean, John. Are you meaning giving eBay= your >e-address? I've got one address that I use for eBay and PayPal only. Had >it for quite a few months now. At first I always had my ISP filter the= spam >and automatically delete it. Awhile back I changed my configuration to >shunt the spam to a separate folder so I could see if I was missing= anything >legitimate. So far, not a single e-mail, bulk, spam, or otherwise, has >shown up (knock on wood). Ebay and Paypal both do a pretty good job in regards spam....other merchants vary all over the map. There's been some scouring of certain of the lists I'm on, as I now see an occasional spam to this address, even though I use it only when I have to (as I recall,=20 EPay wont accept yahoo/hotmail/other throwaway accounts). My address at work is much more publically used, and therefore abused. I get between 100-200 spam messages a *day* at that address.=20 John --=======1A7616AC======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-86C3D37 Content-Disposition: inline --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 3/13/04 --=======1A7616AC=======-- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:45:06 -0600 From: Tom NorrisSubject: Re: GB> Grossman? > >Tom: >Did Chuck live on the west side (Nashville) down a street >that had a huge hill to the north? (that's a real clear >explanation, right?) :-) > >I spent a number of weeks there three summers ago working [snip] Lived somewhere past Bellemeade going toward Belleview. Yep, he had a big sale the year he moved to Florida. I really do miss his shop "Hardware, Etc" Used to spend lots of time just hanging out there and talking about old radios and old surplus gear. Chuck is a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to his antique and surplus radio collecting. Nice guy too, and a vet with lots of interesting stories to tell. Just never could afford to buy anything other than tubes. Hopefully he is enjoying his second retirement in Florida. Think the owners of the building he leased for the radio "museum" just refused to maintain the building while going up on rent, forcing him out in favor of more "appropriate" (read "trendy") clientele. The only business that has been in that space since he left was only in there for a couple months. The place was empty last time I checked. 73, Tom KA4RKTDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:32:06 -0800 (PST) From: ClaudeSubject: GB> 450 ohm antenna question I have an antenna question that I would like to present to the group.... I would like to put up a dedicated 40 meter antenna for the low end of the CW band, appx 7.040.... I would like to feed it with 450 ohm feedline, and not use an antenna tuner.... My setup is this.... I have about 65 feet to work with (total), but really would like it in a shorter space.... I can only get about 20 to 30 feet off the ground at best.... I will be using my homemade 6AG7/6L6 CW transmitter, its output power is 8 watts at the antenna terminal.... IT needs to be effiecient as possible.... The transmitter will load perfectly into a 450 dummy load, it will not load into a 300, or 50 ohm dummy load.... The reason for this was the choice of variable capacitors that I had avialable to use.... Its output stage is a variable capacitor tuning for the plate and an output coil for the antenna side.... I Wish I could have used a pi-network, but did not have the variable capacitors to do so.... I would like to connect the 450 ohm twin lead to the output of the transmitter and go directly to the antenna..... But what lengths, and connection points...???? I have some ideas, but really would like to hear the groups thoughts as to a proven way to do this with the above conditions..... I thought that I knew until I started looking around as what to build..... I Thank everyone ahead of time for their input, it is sincerly appreciated...... Claude WB4WHH http://www.qsl.net/wb4whh/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.comDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:54:14 -0500 From: Brad ThompsonSubject: Re: GB> Tube Prices and Ebay, again Hello-- A few years ago, I noted an auction posting on another group (either rec.audio.tubes or boatanchors) and saw that the seller (a licensed Radio Amateur) listed "0.1 uF, 200 V. silver mica caps". As a designer and components engineer, I was intrigued as I had never encountered a silver-mica capacitor this large. After viewing the auction listing, I noted the capacitor's type number on the photo and looked it up-- sure enough, the capacitors in question were actually a metallized-foil type, although their reddish-brown epoxy coating resembled that of a garden-variety silver mica cap. I wrote a friendly note to the seller suggesting that he might want to crack one of the caps open and check its innards, just to be sure that it was of silver-mica construction. He wrote back a very brief note stating that the construction didn't matter and that he "didn't care" what was inside the caps. So, be careful of what's Out There. Sometimes, it's not The Truth (cf. "The X-Files", F. Mulder). 73-- Brad AA1IPDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:54:00 -0800 From: "Don Ehrlich"Subject: Re: GB> 450 ohm antenna question A folded dipole would meet your needs. Don K7FJ > I have an antenna question that I would like to > present to the group.... > I would like to put up a dedicated 40 meter > antenna for the low end of the CW band, appx 7.040.... > I would like to feed it with 450 ohm feedline, and not > use an antenna tuner.... > My setup is this.... > I have about 65 feet to work with (total), but > really would like it in a shorter space.... I can only > get about 20 to 30 feet off the ground at best.... > I will be using my homemade 6AG7/6L6 CW > transmitter, its output power is 8 watts at the > antenna terminal.... IT needs to be effiecient as > possible.... The transmitter will load perfectly into > a 450 dummy load, it will not load into a 300, or 50 > ohm dummy load.... The reason for this was the choice > of variable capacitors that I had avialable to use.... > Its output stage is a variable capacitor tuning for > the plate and an output coil for the antenna side.... > I Wish I could have used a pi-network, but did not > have the variable capacitors to do so.... > I would like to connect the 450 ohm twin lead to > the output of the transmitter and go directly to the > antenna..... But what lengths, and connection > points...???? > I have some ideas, but really would like to hear > the groups thoughts as to a proven way to do this with > the above conditions..... I thought that I knew until > I started looking around as what to build..... > I Thank everyone ahead of time for their input, > it is sincerly appreciated...... > Claude > WB4WHHDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:26:29 +1100 From: "Brian Goldsmith"Subject: Re: GB> Fwd: ID'ing Crystals ----- Original Message ----- From:Don't recognize the addresser and not expecting any attachments, so have deleted the information that was attached. sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. *** Complete agreement from this end,don't be sorry for the other posters ignorance. Brian Goldsmith. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:29:27 -0600 From: "jo"Subject: GB> Thanks Crawfish! my 1930's regen on it's way. Also thanks to Rocky First off, thanks Crawfish for sending me the 30 tube a few months back. It gave me the kick I needed to get my regen started. Here is the line up. RF amp 34 Detector 30 Preamp 31 PA 33 I ordered the "Secrets of Homebuilt Regenerative Receivers" by C. F. "Rock" Rockey from Midnight Science. Great reading. I've also got a 2" binder of print outs from this reflector on regens. I wonder if anyone here has any pointers to some schematics that use the 30 series? Also I got an ignition coil from my local junk yard to be used as the "500 Henry" coil, I've heard that these can be used effectively. Any comments from some of you who have used them? Thanks again Crawfish! Rick KC0GIXDate: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:39:42 -0600 From: "jo"Subject: GB> OT: SS pullen mixer I want to do some experimenting with Solid State Pullen mixers and I have a basic question. I understand that the original tube designs where often used almost without change with FETs replacing the tubes since the input/output impedance of a FET is similar to the impedance of a tube. My question is, do FET's make a better pullen than bipolar transistors or should I use some thing completely different (MOSFETs, Unijunction)? Does anyone have any data or article recommendations? I have access to a large number of PN2222As and a number of MPF102s. I figured I'd start with these and see what happens. Thanks to all Rick KC0GIXDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:29:43 -0000 From: "Barry Kirkwood"Subject: Re: GB> OT: SS pullen mixer Hmmm, is it heresy to talk solid state? Anyway, a short answer is if you go that way with a couple of devices there are better ways of doing it. Have a look at circuit of many of the ss transceivers and you will see neat semibalanced mixers using fets. 73 Barry end Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD Signal Hill Homestay 66 Cory Road Palm Beach Waiheke Island 1240 NEW ZEALAND ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "jo"To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:39 AM Subject: GB> OT: SS pullen mixer > I want to do some experimenting with Solid State Pullen mixers and I have a > basic question. I understand that the original tube designs where often used > almost without change with FETs replacing the tubes since the input/output > impedance of a FET is similar to the impedance of a tube. My question is, do > FET's make a better pullen than bipolar transistors or should I use some > thing completely different (MOSFETs, Unijunction)? Does anyone have any data > or article recommendations? I have access to a large number of PN2222As and > a number of MPF102s. I figured I'd start with these and see what happens. > > Thanks to all > > Rick KC0GIX > > > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:32:46 EST From: Wd4nka@aol.com Subject: GB> Eldico r-104 part value needed.--part1_6d.247bde93.2d883fde_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, gang: Someone ( i erased most of my mail, unfortunately ) was going to check their eldico R-104 manual to get a value for L-201 and L-202. I wonder if they had a chance to do that yet? Or if anyone on list might just happen to have an r-104 manual which has the parts list in it. I have a scanned version, but unfortunately the parts list was not included. I am rebuilding the pto, and the tuning coil values were omitted from the schematic. All other values are there except for those two coils. I particularly need the value of L-202, the trim coil. Tnx. gary // wd4nka Visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ --part1_6d.247bde93.2d883fde_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, gang:
Someone ( i erased most of my mail, unfortunately ) was
going to check their eldico R-104 manual to get a value for
L-201 and L-202. I wonder if they had a chance to do that
yet? Or if anyone on list might just happen to have an r-104
manual which has the parts list in it. I have a scanned version,
but unfortunately the parts list was not included. I am rebuilding
the pto, and the tuning coil values were omitted from the
schematic. All other values are there except for those two
coils. I particularly need the value of L-202, the trim coil.
Tnx.
gary // wd4nka
Visit my site at: http://www.qsl.= net/wd4nka/ --part1_6d.247bde93.2d883fde_boundary--Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:39:53 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: GB> Thanks re Plate Spacing Convention Thanks to those who responded to my question about plate spacing specs in air variable capacitors. Of course it makes more sense that this refers to the air gap but I wasn't sure whether this was what was meant as I read through various project articles. Also, it seems that many of the caps that one finds are less than perfectly aligned* and so a specified air gap is only the best case scenario until one of the plates is bent or the unit is put out of alignment (right?). Stuart recommended checking the Cardwell Condensor site and their charts don't even use the term "spacing" ... just "air gap". So there you are. This whole question is just a product of misleading or misapplied terminology in the articles. * but this is mainly the case with the narrow gap sort that are intended for relatively low voltage, receiver tuning applications. The wide gap caps typically have some facility for adjusting the alignment of the stator. Brad P.S. It's ALIVE! It's ALIVE! .... I donated my old beater, 185k miles car last month and I received a bill in the mail yesterday complete with a surveillence camera photo of my former car's license plate as the car cruised through a toll booth without paying the toll. The violation is dated 4 days after the car left my possession. I wonder what other naughty activities it is being used for. :-( Or maybe someone just slapped the old plate on a different car. Hmmm .... _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:29:26 -0500 From:Subject: GB> Various Type '30 triode regen designs Rick and group: That #30 can, of course, be used in several regen schemes, the most successful for me was the cathode loop. I used it for VLF and MW, it seemed that the feedback occuring at the cathode level was less touchy than the place coupled feedback arrangements. In my case i just wound a few loops around the base of the grid coil, connecting the top wind to the negative 'A' battery term and the ground end to the negative 'B' battery term. In my case, the main ground bus. You can also accomplish the same by voltage control of the filament. CQ's Dave Ingram featured a very nice twin #30 regen in his World of Ideas column for Feb. 1990, dubbed the "Globe Trotter" ( now you know where i get the idea of giving my receivers monikers ) which featured a 100pF throttle from plate, aft the tickler coil and RFC, to ground bus. Both detector and audio stage '30 have parallel filament circuits using a 10 ohm pot for voltage control. The beauty here is that you can control the detector voltage ( i would take the audio fil out of the pot circuit and hook it up direct to the A battery ) AND throttle the feedback, optimising your detector efficiency. It is considered a great little 0-v-1. Transformer coupled, though. Make the 'A' battery positive term common with B battery negative, and put the pot in the 'A' negative side. ( The same article features the "Gil Classic" heavy-tank Hartley, the design of which is taken from a Phil Gildersleeve cartoon from 1930, when he took over from W8EA, who went on to illustrate adds for Taylor, and other component manufactures. ) Mr Doerle used another cathode arrangement in his original "Globe Circler " which used a pair of '30s as a 0-V-1. In this case the B negative was also the A negative, and feedback occured in the plate via the usual armstrong tickler venue, but a lower value pot was put in series with the A battery positive term. I note that BOTH '30s, the detector and the audio had their cathode voltages simultaneously varied, their filaments connected in parallel above the pot! B+ on all the type '30 Doerles seem to be 90v, if that serves as a cue, although I used no more than 45v ever in detector service. On one of his early 1-V-1's, ("Signal Gripper") Doerle used 'A' batteries in series with the B, and a variable resistance in both the plate and the cathode, the plate pot likely being the voltage control, the cathode pot, not being in the 'A' battery line but rather connected to the positive side of the cathode, and the rotor conecting to the B-negative term. It's only function appears to be one of controlling feedback. There is no A batter voltage control. I believe the cathode, rather than the plate pot was the actual regen control. Of course, both have a bearing on feedback. If Doerle arrangements are of interest, here is a short biblio: "Those Good Ol' Radio Magazines", J. Nagle K4KJ ( great read! ) Ham Radio Horizons, Dec. 31 Wrap-up issue, 1977, pg. 38 - 47 "1929-1941: The Golden Years of Amateur Radio", Bill Orr, W6SAI- Ham Radio, April 1976, pg. 34-38 "Golden Years of Ham Radio", also Bill Orr who wrote extensively on this subject, Ham Radio Horizons, May 1978, pgs 40-43 "Golden Years of Radio- The Way it Was, 40 years ago" Bill Orr, Ham Radio Horizons, March 1977, pgs 32-36 "Golden Years of Radio" Bill Orr, Ham Radio Horizons, April 1979, pages 50-57, including a bio on Walter C. Doerle and tips on building his (then) 40 year old designs. The Editor of CQ and i had a small and very nice chat a short while back, and unfortunately he could not release permission to republish any articles by Bill Orr, they were one-time releases only. Thus i cannot offer scans of these articles, but HRHs and HR Reports pop up all the time on eBay for next to nuthin', and i plan to re-research Walter Doerle and post my own material in the future. gary // wd4nka ReformSchool Music LTD ( very limited. ) ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Caveat: don't hold anything written above as absolutely factual unless you know it to be so, or have done your own homework. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:21:33 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: GB> OT: Big motorTry putting this on your scooter! http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ -bobDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:57:54 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> OT: Big motor When I worked for Mackay in the San Francisco area, one day I stopped off at the SeaLand warehouse to leave them some radio spares they had ordered. It was my first trip into that warehouse, and I found the two guys working there having lunch. They were eating sandwiches while sitting up on top of what I first took to be a large round drum of some sort on a large wooden pallet. Then I saw the grooves for the rings and big hole for the wrist pin and realized it was actually the piston for one of the large marine diesel engines. Amazing! Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of ah7i@atl.org Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:22 AM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: GB> OT: Big motor Try putting this on your scooter! http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ -bobDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:18:51 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor Wouldn't that honey turn your Field Day generator just fine, HA! Lessee, that's about 80 MegaWatts for the 14 banger, ooh baby! Now, I wanna see Jesse James build a monster out of that puppy! (Monster Garage, Discovery Channel) 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:21:33 -0500 (EST) ah7i@atl.org writes: > > Try putting this on your scooter! > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ > > -bob > > > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:38:56 -0500 From: "Charles W3KC"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor That's why I keep my little one cylinder Yanmar diesel generator away from steroids! 73 Chas W3KCDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:54:56 -0600 From: dzabcik@texas.net Subject: GB> Leo Myerson special event!I just had the privilige (which I will long remember) of speaking to Leo Meyerson, W0GFQ, on 20m sideband. He told me that there is a special event station coming up, using his call, which will be on this Thursday. The station will be operating on 14.213 and will probably start 11:00 AM Pacific time, although I gathered that is perhaps subject to change. Antennas are problematic for Mr. Meyerson, so listen up! I feel sure there are several on this list that will be anxious to work this station; but I'm already the FIRST call in the log! 73, Dan, WB5YUZDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:41:54 -0600 From: Tom NorrisSubject: Re: GB> The TDSL (Tube Data Sheet Locator) Personal Edition And, instead of being a simple database that anyone can use, it is a windows only program. I have OSX and Linux machines. Oh well, *my type* probably doesn't need that program anyway, since I have an RCA HB-3 data book set that covers a little bit of everything - though it is missing the transmitting tube volume, if there was a transmitting tube volume. The data in the HB-3 also included operating curves and other good details. :-) Tom >I just found out about this free download that gives you tube data >at your fingertips. > >Just go to : > >http://www.duncanamps.com/tdslpe/ > >and download it for data on 1700 tubes.Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:31:29 -0500 From: w2bvhSubject: GB> Re:Big motor. Check out the details of this little motor Check out the details of this little motor: http://www.car.co.nz/hotrod.asp?articleid=1934 73, Lenny W2BVH ah7i@atl.org wrote: >Try putting this on your scooter! > >http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ > >-bob > > > > >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:43:35 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: GB> QSTs for tradeI have the following duplicate issues of QST: 1948 JAN,MAR, APR, MAY, SEP, OCT 1971 MAR,APR,JUN,JUL,AUG I would like to trade some or all for any of the following issues of QST (one for one):: 1950 ANY EXCEPT NOV 1953 ANY EXCEPT AUG,SEP,OCT,NOV,DEC 1954 ANY 1955 ANY EXCEPT MAY 1956 ANY 1957 ANY EXCEPT JAN 1958 APR 1959 ANY EXCEPT APR,MAY,JUN 1960 DEC 1961 ANY EXCEPT JAN,FEB,MAR,APR 1962 ANY EXCEPT JAN,FEB,AUG 1962 ANY Regards, Frank Kamp K5DKZDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:58:02 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor How in the he** do you start such a beast? Compressed air? A starter motor for that thing would be bigger than an entire over-the-road truck. I heard recently that the Bismark and other largeish German ships of WWII used diesels too. Wonder what they looked like? On 16 Mar 2004 at 13:21, ah7i@atl.org wrote: > > Try putting this on your scooter! > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ > > -bob > >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:07:11 -0800 (PST) From: ClaudeSubject: GB> 450 ohm antenna... Excellent answers... Thank you..!!!! Someone said a while back that this was the best radio group out there, I would like to add one comment to that.... He was right.....!!!! Again, I would like to thank everyone who was able to offer comments about my 450 ohm antenna question.... Every reply was excellent...!!!! Without exception, and I really appreciate your posts about it.... What good answers.... I am back on track now, in my understanding about the antenna.... For simplicity sake, I am going to use the folded dipole for this set..... I will let everyone know how all of this works out as time goes on..... Thank you...!!!!! 73's Claude WB4WHH __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.comDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:00:56 -0000 From: "Barry Kirkwood"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor FWIW: Giant Diesels are standard propulsion for big ships these days. They are controlled from the bridge, pretty much like driving a car. Most of the time there is nobody in the engine room. In the case of oil tankers, once underway they cut over from diesel fuel and run on crude. It takes about 15mins minimum to change them back again so that speed can be changed, or the engines reversed. Thus, if they run over something smaller they usually just keep going. Usually over the horizon before they could turn around, assuming they wanted to. 73 Barry end Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD Signal Hill Homestay 66 Cory Road Palm Beach Waiheke Island 1240 NEW ZEALAND ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"To: Cc: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:58 PM Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor > How in the he** do you start such a beast? Compressed air? A > starter motor for that thing would be bigger than an entire > over-the-road truck. > > I heard recently that the Bismark and other largeish German > ships of WWII used diesels too. > > Wonder what they looked like? > > On 16 Mar 2004 at 13:21, ah7i@atl.org wrote: > > > > > Try putting this on your scooter! > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ > > > > -bob > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:19:23 -0600 From: dzabcik@texas.net Subject: Re: GB> 450 ohm antenna questionDon Ehrlich wrote: > > A folded dipole would meet your needs. > I agree that this would be an excellent choice given the dimensions available and the matching method proposed. However, Claude observes: > > > The transmitter will load perfectly into > > a 450 dummy load, it will not load into a 300, or 50 > > ohm dummy load.... Huh? Unless I'm missing something, anything that loads perfectly into a 450 ohm load should load quite satisfactorily into a 300 ohm load. If I did the math correctly, this should give an SWR of less than 1.1:1! > > I Wish I could have used a pi-network, but did not > > have the variable capacitors to do so.... > > I would like to connect the 450 ohm twin lead to > > the output of the transmitter and go directly to the > > antenna..... But what lengths, and connection > > points...???? If you did not build in a pi-net output, it is probably advisable to use a pi-net antenna tuner following the set up, especially since I gather you are not using a push-pull or push-push amp (one of the latter cancels out harmonics, but I forget off the top of my head which circuit, and whether even or odd harmonics are deleted). Connecting the antenna directly across the coil WILL give the most efficient connection, and was indeed how they did it in the days when the letters NRA had nothing to do with guns; but in most mopa designs will result in considerable harmonic radiation. It is also highly likely no one on the other end of a QSO will ever notice the difference in signal strength that will result from the insertion loss of a properly operated pi-net antenna tuner. And, using a tuner can mean a nice 50 ohm unbalanced output, giving you the option of using conventional dipoles, or whatever you might have up for the sand state rigs. So, think about using a tuner; discretion, valor, and all. > > I Thank everyone ahead of time for their input, > > it is sincerly appreciated...... For what the above comments may be worth, you're quite welcome. But I'm new to this myself, so let's see what others have to say. 73, Dan, WB5YUZDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:31:38 -0500 From: John Dilks - K2TQNSubject: GB> Heathkit Estate FS in Secaucus, NJ To all, The main equipment for sale is: SB-221 linear, HW-101 transciever, SB-634 station control, HP-23C power supply, HD-15 phone patch, Astatic D-104 microphone, Clegg FM-28 older 2-m tranciever There is more, but the above is the main part. If anyone is interested, please contact the Son-in-law Glen at GMD5265@aol.com He would also be interested to sell the entire ham station to one person. 73, John Dilks, K2TQNDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:29:47 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: GB> Re: ur post ref mypost "i.d.ing crystals"Not a brush off of your query which was not in the text of your message but with an attachment thereto, and not being familiar with your email address, I opted not to keep the message and apologized if it caused a problem, but I was not about to open the attachment. That is all it was about. And I did not denigrate your inquiry but there was nothing to answer unless it was in the attachment. If you want to be insulting then I shan't bother to answer or even try to answer your query - why are you sending it to me anyway when there were numerous responders giving the same type of response to the attachment from an unknow person. Now if you would like to repost the same message to the entire list and get their responses, you may have better answers than what I can give you. You might as well know at this point I did not, do not appreciate these insinuations and insults. I am not familiar with the GRC109, but as I recall the HT18, which I used to have will accept the FT243, FT241 (same pin spacing as the 243 but a larger body) and the HC6 type crystal with the large pin adapters. The GRC9, I am not sure of and checking my manual, I did not see what type is used - perhaps one of the people on the list can answer that.Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:59:10 EST From: N2EY@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor--part1_1e4.1b688d4b.2d890aee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/16/04 7:02:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, keng@moscow.com writes: > How in the he** do you start such a beast? Compressed air? Yes. Big diesels are commonly air-started. A > > starter motor for that thing would be bigger than an entire > over-the-road truck. > Bwaahaahaa. They are direct-drive. IIRC, typically two will be used per ship... > I heard recently that the Bismark and other largeish German > ships of WWII used diesels too. > > Maybe, but they weren't nearly that powerful nor efficient. Most large ships of that time used steam, either reciprocating or turbine. The Titanic's two reciprocating engines were about the size of the engine pictured. But they required steam from external boilers, and produced far less horsepower. 73 de Jim, N2EY --part1_1e4.1b688d4b.2d890aee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a me= ssage dated 3/16/04 7:02:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, keng@moscow.com writes= :
How in the he** do you start su= ch a beast? Compressed air?
Yes. Big diesels are commonly air-started.
A
starter motor for that thing would be bigger than an entire
over-the-road truck.
Bwaahaahaa.
They are direct-drive. IIRC, typically two will be used per ship...
I heard recently that the Bisma= rk and other largeish German
ships of WWII used diesels too.
Maybe, but they weren't nearly that powerful nor efficient. Most large ships= of that time used steam, either reciprocating or turbine.
The Titanic's two reciprocating engines were about the size of the eng= ine pictured. But they required steam from external boilers, and produced fa= r less horsepower.
73 de Jim, N2EY --part1_1e4.1b688d4b.2d890aee_boundary--Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:02:07 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> OT: Big motor The "normal" fuel those big engines use is amazing stuff. At room temperature it has the consistency of gelatin. I won't "flow" in the sense one expects oil to flow. One of my few excursions into the engine room was on a Norwegian Cruise Ship to fix a "Viscotherm" - a device that controlled the heating of heavy fuel oil up to about 100C so it could be injected into the engine. A scare of my life came when a fitting broke and I was doused in fuel oil. Fortunately the heater had been shut down. It was like being hit with a fire hose filled with black "Jell-o". The heavier it is, the cheaper it is I guess, and when you use tons of the stuff... Never did get the stink or stains out of those coveralls or off my hardhat. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Kirkwood Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:01 PM To: Kenneth G. Gordon; ah7i@atl.org Cc: Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor FWIW: Giant Diesels are standard propulsion for big ships these days. They are controlled from the bridge, pretty much like driving a car. Most of the time there is nobody in the engine room. In the case of oil tankers, once underway they cut over from diesel fuel and run on crude. It takes about 15mins minimum to change them back again so that speed can be changed, or the engines reversed. Thus, if they run over something smaller they usually just keep going. Usually over the horizon before they could turn around, assuming they wanted to. 73 Barry end Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD Signal Hill Homestay 66 Cory Road Palm Beach Waiheke Island 1240 NEW ZEALAND ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm -Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:25:33 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> OT Big motor. Check out the details of this little motor One thing -not- mentioned on that page is that Top Fuel drivers pull more "G's" decelerating when they pull the 'chute than accelerating from the line. I think I read 12 'G's' somewhere. That is almost blackout territory but it is only momentary, not sustained. But a big problem is retinal detachment. That is the primary reason 5 time NHRA champion Joe Amato quit piloting fuelers. But I always like to get people going with the 540 revolutions from start to finish factoid. They always guess thousands of rev's. too high, HA! Also, I have timed the engine run time from startup to shutdown on a typical Top Fuel run and it's only about a minute or so. Amazing. Sorry, no GB connection that I can think of. 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:31:29 -0500 w2bvhwrites: > Check out the details of this little motor: > http://www.car.co.nz/hotrod.asp?articleid=1934 > > 73, > Lenny W2BVH ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:49:09 -0500 From: "Richard Brunner"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor Re: > > I heard recently that the Bismark and other largish German ships of WWII used diesels too. Quoth: The battleship Bismarck had a steam propulsion plant that amounted to 9% of the ship's weight. It consisted of three turbine sets (Blohm & Voss) in separated compartments (turbine rooms) located in sections VIII and X. The steam power was produced by twelve Wagner high pressure steam-heated boilers distributed in six watertight compartments (boiler rooms) that were located amidships in sections XI and XII. The plant generated a total horse power of 150,170 hp and provided the battleship with a maximum speed of 30.1 knots. The three propellers were of 4.8 meters in diameter and had three blades. The port and middle propellers rotated counter clockwise and the starboard propeller clockwise. Richard Brunner, AA1PDate: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:04:20 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Back on topic, was Re: GB> OT: Big motor I'll get this on topic...but first, I just wonder if any of you have ever been hanging around a heavy duty truck shop , when someone fired off a air-starter equipped diesel? I can assure you that this can be another raiment-soiler of an event! Especially if you're not expecting it. Imagine someone sneaking up on you while you're day-dreaming and firing off a 1/2" impact wrench about 2" behind your head. Fortunately, except for bulk-hauling fleets, they were kind of scarce. The advantage was their low maintenance and light weight back in the days when electric starters were all 24 volt. They had quite a stigma to most truckers though, like wedge brakes, 318 Detroits, Fontaine 5th wheels, Kysor shut-downs, twin-stick four-by-fours, alcohol evaporators...funny thing is you usually found all of them on the same truck! Now... the GB connection: Ken mentioned ships. Our WWII subs were all diesel electric, the most popular being the Fairbanks-Morris opposed-piston design. And yes, they had air starters. As I understand it, the way they started them was to bleed off cylinder pressure and fire the compressed air. The cranks would start to turn and when they got up to starting rpm, they would close the compression releases and start the fuel injection. Compression and heat took it from there. Apparently, the high compression ratio prevented the compressed air from overcoming the inertia, so they had to release the compression to get the thing a-whirlin' first. I know. Clear as mud. Anyway, if your still with me, our sub's engines had high-tech exhaust mufflers to keep it to a dull roar, and to keep the water out. I'm thinking that least some of these, and probably many, were designed and supplied by...none other than our beloved Old Man, himself, Hiram Percy Maxim! Sometimes it's easy to forget he had a day job, too! 73, Tom Original Message ----- From:To: ; Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:59 PM Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor > In a message dated 3/16/04 7:02:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, keng@moscow.com > writes: > > > > How in the he** do you start such a beast? Compressed air? > > Yes. Big diesels are commonly air-started. > > A > > > > starter motor for that thing would be bigger than an entire > > over-the-road truck. > > > > Bwaahaahaa. > > They are direct-drive. IIRC, typically two will be used per ship... > > > > I heard recently that the Bismark and other largeish German > > ships of WWII used diesels too. > > > > > > Maybe, but they weren't nearly that powerful nor efficient. Most large ships > of that time used steam, either reciprocating or turbine. > > The Titanic's two reciprocating engines were about the size of the engine > pictured. But they required steam from external boilers, and produced far less > horsepower. > > 73 de Jim, N2EY > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:18:59 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"To: Cc: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:58 PM Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor > I heard recently that the Bismark and other largeish German > ships of WWII used diesels too. > I'm thinking it might have been the Graf Spee, Ken. Whichever one got scuttled at Montevideo. Probably others, as well? It was of welded construction, too. Not too good of a set up. Trivia bit. The captain of the Graf Spee, which was primarily a commerce raider, was very careful when he was attacking unarmed ships. It sticks in my mind, that no lives were lost on any merchant or passenger vessel he sank. I'll have to look it up. I know he was an old-school Kreigsmariner who had no love for Hitler. Before sending the crippled Graf Spee to its doom, he covered himself with the old German flag and commited suicide. It seems to me, as Johnny Horton sang, "the war had just begun". 73, Tom Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:49:15 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor Hmmmmm > Before sending the crippled Graf Spee to its > doom, he covered himself with the old German flag and commited suicide. Hah Hahhh! Nice trick if he could do it! I must be up too late! I meant to say "AFTER sending Graf Spee to its doom"!!! Oh well. BTW, I was correct...Capt. Langsdorff sent nine Allied ships totalling over 50,000 tons to the bottom, yet not one Allied life was lost. He allowed many sailors to escape when near the shore. Those whom he captured, he set free in neutral Uruguay. Many of them attended his funeral. Even Churchill referred to him as "a high-class person". 73, Tom > > 73, > Tom > > >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:19:08 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: Back on topic, was Re: GB> OT: Big motor And they're still around! Check this out: http://www.beairdindustries.com/products/silencers.html Amazing. TNX Tom 73.......Steve Smith, WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:04:20 -0600 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=writes: > I'm > thinking > that least some of these, and probably many, were designed and > supplied > by...none other than our beloved Old Man, himself, Hiram Percy > Maxim! > Sometimes it's easy to forget he had a day job, too! > > 73, > Tom ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:54:11 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: Back on topic, was Re: GB> OT: Big motor OK, I can tie this air-start Diesel thread and Glowbugs together too. In the late 70s, I installed a repeater for the USGS in the FAA building on La Cumbre Peak near Santa Barbara. I went back subsequently to change channel frequencies on the radio and retune the duplexer. While I was up there, the FAA tech. was servicing the standby power generator, a big, beautiful air-start Diesel. I was in awe of that beast. It was spotless. Both the water jacket and the oil sump were kept pre-heated to running temperature. When the tech. simulated a power failure by pulling the mains breaker, there wasn't even a flicker of the lights as the air starter immediately spun the engine up to operating RPM and it fired off. The tech. explained that the starter was able to do that because the Diesel had a compression release on the cylinders and the valves didn't close until the oil pressure reached operating parameters. So that starter carried the load for a few seconds before the engine actually ran. Neat stuff. It sure made an awesome sound while starting. I'll never forget that. Oh, yeah. The GB connection. The inside of the FAA building was a beautiful facility, just spotless. And the radios. Oh, there were some soulless, stark solid state jobs for talking to the airliners but the radios for the local area were big olive drab colored tube beasts and looked practically brand new. I looked on the tags and they read "Civil Aeronautics Board, 1940". Still perking right along after almost 40 years of continuous service. They smelled great too! And only my fellow Glowbug-ers would know what I mean. 73.......Steve Smith, WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:04:20 -0600 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=writes: > I'll get this on topic...but first, I just wonder if any of you have > ever > been hanging around a heavy duty truck shop , when someone fired off > a > air-starter equipped diesel? ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:19:32 -0800 From: "John Moriarity"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor > How in the he** do you start such a beast? Compressed air? A > starter motor for that thing would be bigger than an entire > over-the-road truck. And I'd like to see the lathes, mills etc., that were used to make the monster! Absolutely amazing! 73, John - K6QQDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:16:38 -0500 From: Donald E SandersSubject: Re: GB> Thanks re Plate Spacing Convention Good word of warning, never give your license tag away. You are still responsible until it is reregistered. Don W4BWS On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:39:53 +0000 "Brad Hernlem"writes: > Thanks to those who responded to my question about plate spacing > specs in > air variable capacitors. Of course it makes more sense that this > refers to > the air gap but I wasn't sure whether this was what was meant as I > read > through various project articles. Also, it seems that many of the > caps that > one finds are less than perfectly aligned* and so a specified air > gap is > only the best case scenario until one of the plates is bent or the > unit is > put out of alignment (right?). > > Stuart recommended checking the Cardwell Condensor site and their > charts > don't even use the term "spacing" ... just "air gap". So there you > are. This > whole question is just a product of misleading or misapplied > terminology in > the articles. > > * but this is mainly the case with the narrow gap sort that are > intended for > relatively low voltage, receiver tuning applications. The wide gap > caps > typically have some facility for adjusting the alignment of the > stator. > > Brad > > P.S. It's ALIVE! It's ALIVE! .... I donated my old beater, 185k > miles car > last month and I received a bill in the mail yesterday complete with > a > surveillence camera photo of my former car's license plate as the > car > cruised through a toll booth without paying the toll. The violation > is dated > 4 days after the car left my possession. I wonder what other naughty > > activities it is being used for. :-( > Or maybe someone just slapped the old plate on a different car. Hmmm > .... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to > choose from! > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > > Donald Sanders W4BWS PO Box 459 Fellsmere, Fl 32948 321-426-5023 w4bws@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:32:03 -0600 From: Daniel WrightSubject: GB> Old Car Radio Greetings! This might might be slightly OT since it's not a HAM radio, but it does have tubes...heheh... My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup truck and has a radio he wants to install. I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker on the thing says: "Chevrolet; model 986669" Anyone have a clue as to where I might find info on this radio? The first thing we will want to do (after inspecting it) I guess, will be to try to hook it up and see if it plays. As I imagine these things have a bundle of wires stickin' out the back, connection info (power, speaker) would be good. Thanks a bunch! 73 de Dan -- WAØJRD .. Lincoln, NebraskaDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:38:58 -0500 From: Registered UserSubject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:32:03 -0600, you wrote: > > >Greetings! > >This might might be slightly OT since it's >not a HAM radio, but it does have tubes...heheh... > >My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup >truck and has a radio he wants to install. > >I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker >on the thing says: > >"Chevrolet; model 986669" > That appears to be a Delco number. http://www.wonderbarman.com/codes.html shows 986766 as being a manual tune AM radio for a 1966 Chevy van. >Anyone have a clue as to where I might find >info on this radio? The first thing we will >want to do (after inspecting it) I guess, >will be to try to hook it up and see if it >plays. As I imagine these things have a bundle >of wires stickin' out the back, connection >info (power, speaker) would be good. > Try http://www.vivisimo.com using the keywords "Delco car radio" w/out the quotes.The folks in the usenet group rec.antiques.radio+phono are another potential source of information. 73 de n4jvp FritzDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:19:19 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio Daniel, Do you need schematics and repair info? Try SAMS photofacts (or whatever the spelling). The public library in my area has a large collection so I may be able to make copies if you can't find them anywhere else (MAY, that is. The collection is large but not comprehensive). Or try your Chevrolet dealer. Go to the shop and ask the boys back there. Maybe they have some old shop manuals or leads that can get you what you need. Brad KG6IOE P.S. I just checked the SAMS Photofact search at: http://www.samswebsite.com/photofact/pf_search.asp and they show a hit at SAMS #224-6 for a General Motors model #986669. It costs $20 to order it on-line. >From: Registered User>Reply-To: n4jvp@ix.netcom.com >To: Daniel Wright >CC: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu >Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:38:58 -0500 > >On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:32:03 -0600, you wrote: > > > > > > >Greetings! > > > >This might might be slightly OT since it's > >not a HAM radio, but it does have tubes...heheh... > > > >My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup > >truck and has a radio he wants to install. > > > >I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker > >on the thing says: > > > >"Chevrolet; model 986669" > > >That appears to be a Delco number. >http://www.wonderbarman.com/codes.html shows >986766 as being a manual tune AM radio for a 1966 Chevy van. > > >Anyone have a clue as to where I might find > >info on this radio? The first thing we will > >want to do (after inspecting it) I guess, > >will be to try to hook it up and see if it > >plays. As I imagine these things have a bundle > >of wires stickin' out the back, connection > >info (power, speaker) would be good. > > >Try http://www.vivisimo.com using the keywords "Delco car radio" w/out >the quotes.The folks in the usenet group rec.antiques.radio+phono are >another potential source of information. > >73 de n4jvp >Fritz _________________________________________________________________ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:34:27 EST From: Wd4nka@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor--part1_13.297b5cb7.2d89ca03_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/16/04 9:01:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, N2EY@aol.com writes: > The Titanic's two reciprocating engines were about the size of the engine > pictured. But they required steam from external boilers, and produced far > less horsepower. > ******** I think she also had one turbine. Funny, she was a fast ship, attributed to her horses. But ever stop and look at a painting of an old china or san fransisco 5 or 6 masted square rigged clipper and consider the massive horespower developed in the canvasses on a heavy air day running before the wind ( as opposed to reaching) ? Glowbug connect: many a mate carried his own version of "Fire-bottles". Different kind of fire, tho . . . We used to ballast our day-sailers with pony kegs, which meant that as the day wore on, she would lose draught. Draught to the Draught, i always say. Aww, ya hadda be there. Who was that guy that couldn't sell the British admiralty on the steam turbine, so on QV's diamond jubilee, he took his steam-turbine outfitted, modified tug and injected himself into the parade of dreadnoughts and destroyers, fishtailing and running rings around them at over 40 knots. I guess the ol' royal gal herself stood up and asked "Ahem . . who IS that man?? " We are not amused.! My guess the Admiralty learned a lesson, because it was just after that they bought into Marconi's wireless signalling device. gary // wd4nka visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_13.297b5cb7.2d89ca03_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message=20= dated 3/16/04 9:01:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, N2EY@aol.com writes:
The Titanic's two rec= iprocating engines were about the size of the engine pictured. But they requ= ired steam from external boilers, and produced far less horsepower.=20
******** I think she also had one turbine.
Funny, she was a fast ship, attributed to her horses. But
ever stop and look at a painting of an old china or san
fransisco 5 or 6 masted square rigged clipper and consider
the massive horespower developed in the canvasses on
a heavy air day running before the wind ( as opposed to
reaching) ? Glowbug connect: many a mate carried his
own version of "Fire-bottles". Different kind of fire, tho . . .=20
We used to ballast our day-sailers with pony kegs, which meant
that as the day wore on, she would lose draught. Draught
to the Draught, i always say. Aww, ya hadda be there.
Who was that guy that couldn't sell the British admiralty on
the steam turbine, so on QV's diamond jubilee, he took
his steam-turbine outfitted, modified tug and injected himself
into the parade of dreadnoughts and destroyers, fishtailing
and running rings around them at over 40 knots. I guess
the ol' royal gal herself stood up and asked "Ahem . . who
IS that man?? "
We are not amused.!
My guess the Admiralty learned a lesson, because it was
just after that they bought into Marconi's wireless signalling
device.
gary // wd4nka
visit my site at:
http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_13.297b5cb7.2d89ca03_boundary--Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:00:08 -0600 From: dzabcik@texas.net Subject: Re: GB> Old Car RadioActually, this should be a great radio for BCB DX if he has an original equipment antenna. It never ceases to amaze me how well the Sapphire in my Beetle and the original equipment radio in my Bronco hear DX, as compared to a modern digital display PLL thingy. 73, Dan, WB5YUZ Registered User wrote: > > On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:32:03 -0600, you wrote: > > > > > > >Greetings! > > > >This might might be slightly OT since it's > >not a HAM radio, but it does have tubes...heheh... > > > >My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup > >truck and has a radio he wants to install. > > > >I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker > >on the thing says: > > > >"Chevrolet; model 986669" > > > That appears to be a Delco number. > http://www.wonderbarman.com/codes.html shows > 986766 as being a manual tune AM radio for a 1966 Chevy van. > > >Anyone have a clue as to where I might find > >info on this radio? The first thing we will > >want to do (after inspecting it) I guess, > >will be to try to hook it up and see if it > >plays. As I imagine these things have a bundle > >of wires stickin' out the back, connection > >info (power, speaker) would be good. > > > Try http://www.vivisimo.com using the keywords "Delco car radio" w/out > the quotes.The folks in the usenet group rec.antiques.radio+phono are > another potential source of information. > > 73 de n4jvp > FritzDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:13:13 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> OT: Big motor I was thinking of that story too. It was Sir Charles Algernon Parsons. It shows you how much the "experts" follow "fashion" in engineering as in other things. They simply would not believe that turbines had any future or could produce the power to match a reciprocating engine. It's a human failing to keep in mind as we ponder why engineers selected certain circuits or approaches to rig designs in the old radios too (or today, for that matter, but we don't find too much modern stuff with real, glowing parts, under the kilowatt class). Sometimes the over-riding choice by the "expert" designers had nothing at all to do with good engineering. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- [... Who was that guy that couldn't sell the British admiralty on the steam turbine, so on QV's diamond jubilee, he took his steam-turbine outfitted, modified tug and injected himself into the parade of dreadnoughts and destroyers, fishtailing and running rings around them at over 40 knots. I guess the ol' royal gal herself stood up and asked "Ahem . . who IS that man?? " We are not amused.! My guess the Admiralty learned a lesson, because it was just after that they bought into Marconi's wireless signalling device. gary // wd4nka visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia."Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:09:48 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motorOn Wed, 17 Mar 2004 Wd4nka@aol.com wrote: > Funny, she was a fast ship, attributed to her horses. But > ever stop and look at a painting of an old china or san > fransisco 5 or 6 masted square rigged clipper and consider IMO the only reason the clippers were replaced by steam was because of the material science timeline. The old clippers were faster, cost less to build, and carried as much cargo as the early steam ships. The main problem with them was they were so highly stressed that they didn't last long. Natural materials pushed to their limit. So, factoring in the service life, the early steam ships were more cost effective. -bobDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:30:18 -0500 From: "Merz Donald S"Subject: GB> WTB: Simpson 467 Manual (Or Mil AN/PSM-45) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C40C3D.22B5196E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to find a manual for a Simpson model 467 DMM. This is the same = unit as military AN/PSM-45 so that manual would work too.=20 Any help appreciated. Thanks. 73, Don Merz, N3RHT=20 =20 The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and is = intended solely for the use of the named addressee.=20 Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained = therein by any other person is not authorized.=20 If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by = returning the e-mail to the originator.(A)=20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C40C3D.22B5196E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableI'd = like to find a=20 manual for a Simpson model 467 DMM. This is the same unit as military = AN/PSM-45=20 so that manual would work too.Any = help=20 appreciated.Thanks.73, = Don Merz,=20 N3RHTThe information contained in this e-mail = may be confidential and is intended solely for the use of the named = addressee.Access, copying or = re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other = person is not authorized.If = you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by = returning the e-mail to the = originator.(A)------_=_NextPart_001_01C40C3D.22B5196E--Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:25:13 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: GB> More off topic from BobI'm still unloading stuff and naturally want to generate the best $ so I can spend some money on outfitting the Honolulu ham shack. There was a lot of talk on ultimate RX and some recent on topic of ebay sellers exageration... I've combined the two in order to present my 75A-4 on ebay sometime in the near future ;-) I guess the only GB content other than the pullen mixer in this 75A-4 is that the former owner, Hazard Reeves, had a lot to do with magnetic tape recording technology. Link to his bio in the presentation. There are also some good pix of the radio. http://edebris.com/catalog2/item/1256 -bob (I'd never make it as a copy editor :-)Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:54:24 -0600 From: mikeaSubject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 08:13:13AM -0800, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > I was thinking of that story too. It was Sir Charles Algernon Parsons. > > It shows you how much the "experts" follow "fashion" in engineering as in > other things. They simply would not believe that turbines had any future or > could produce the power to match a reciprocating engine. > > It's a human failing to keep in mind as we ponder why engineers selected > certain circuits or approaches to rig designs in the old radios too (or > today, for that matter, but we don't find too much modern stuff with real, > glowing parts, under the kilowatt class). > > Sometimes the over-riding choice by the "expert" designers had nothing at > all to do with good engineering. And before Parsons' turbine-power demo, didn't Ericsson do the same thing with a screw propellor, zipping all around the sidewheelers and paddlewheelers? A lot of the time, the "Not Invented Here" mindset at the PHB[1] level is a controlling factor. [1] Pointy-Haired Boss -- Mike Andrews mikea@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadminDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:58:25 -0500 From: Bob KulowSubject: Re: GB> WTB: Simpson 467 Manual (Or Mil AN/PSM-45) --=======13D03AE0======= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-259F387B; boundary="=====================_11735251==.ALT" --=====================_11735251==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-259F387B; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:30 AM 3/17/2004, Merz Donald S wrote: >I'd like to find a manual for a Simpson model 467 DMM. Simpson still sells copies of the manual. I bought one from them a few months ago. 73 Bob WA2UEH --=====================_11735251==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-259F387B; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:30 AM 3/17/2004, Merz Donald S wrote:
I'd like to find a manual for a Simpson model 467 DMM.
Simpson still sells copies of the manual. I bought one from them
a few months ago.
73
Bob WA2UEH
--=====================_11735251==.ALT-- --=======13D03AE0======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-259F387B Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 3/13/2004 --=======13D03AE0=======--Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:09:12 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> OT: Big motor I think the underlying reason for the change to steam was the same as the reason for the change from piston engines to jets or even a significant part of the reason for the change from vacuum tubes to solid-state for that matter. That reason is "labor costs". Sailing ships required a LOT more labor than steam vessels - especially skilled labor. It takes experience to handle sail, both aloft in the yards and at the helm. On a steam ship, all most workers needed to know was how so shovel fuel into the fire. A number of times in recent years various companies, especially Japan from my reading, have looked very hard at automated sailing vessels - at least using sail to augment diesel engines - that provide the efficiency of wind power without getting back into the labor issue. I don't know if any of the proposed large scale ships was ever built, but there were several large container vessel and tanker designs that used sails deployed from rolls inside the masts and controlled by a computer that decided when to use them and how to trim them. When jet engines first appeared in the skies, they were decreed unfit for civilian aircraft due to their tremendous fuel consumption. The experts were dead wrong, of course, because a jet can run safely much, much longer between overhauls than a piston engine and the controls are much, much simpler allowing the flight engineer to be removed from airplanes. The savings in labor more than offset the tremendous fuel bills jets ran up compared to piston engines. The extra speed provided by jet engines plays no part in their use in most trips. Piston-engine airplanes can get there just as fast in most cases short of intercontinental trips. Railroads changed from steam to diesel-electric for exactly the same reason. Steam is simple, but a steam engine requires unbelievable labor and specialized skills compared to a diesel-electric. Solid state circuits often do not work as well as the older vacuum tube counterparts, but that's more an engineering decision than any inherent fault in the solid-state devices. AM vehicles - as someone pointed out this morning -don't have the DX capability of the older tube radios. That's because they aren't designed to work as well. They assume that the listener will only be interested in very strong signals, and no one cares to go to the extra cost to design a receiver any longer. They use a simple one-IC design that has the entire "receiver" built in to a single piece of silicon. These guys are "packaging" an off-the-shelf design rather than designing anything in the way of a "radio". So why do manufacturers live with these "off-the-shelf" designs that don't work particularly well? The answer is cost: labor cost. The IC is the cheapest design by far, thanks to being pre-designed and manufactured for fractions of a cent by the millions, and thanks to being so reliable that no one ever repairs them. It works, sort of, and the labor costs are almost non-existent compared to the costs to build and service an old tube-type radio over its operating life. Indeed, even Parsons didn't "sell" his turbine on its raw power. The marine engineers of the day were saying that a turbine lacked the ability to drive a vessel. That's why he staged his demonstration in front of the crown. But Parson's says in his writings that the real advantage in his engine was greater reliability and lower LABOR costs to run it. Fewer people, less down time, harder to damage the engine in battle with fewer people needed available to effect repairs, and lower-levels of skills to keep it going. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of ah7i@atl.org Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:10 AM To: Wd4nka@aol.com Cc: N2EY@aol.com; glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 Wd4nka@aol.com wrote: > Funny, she was a fast ship, attributed to her horses. But ever stop > and look at a painting of an old china or san fransisco 5 or 6 masted > square rigged clipper and consider IMO the only reason the clippers were replaced by steam was because of the material science timeline. The old clippers were faster, cost less to build, and carried as much cargo as the early steam ships. The main problem with them was they were so highly stressed that they didn't last long. Natural materials pushed to their limit. So, factoring in the service life, the early steam ships were more cost effective. -bobDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:28:49 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio That is a standard (non-pushbutton) radio from a 1953-54 Chevy. It should be a cakewalk to hook up. Most likely it will have a "flying lead" for the A+ and probably the dial lamp. I can't remember how the speaker connects but it will be obvious. It will be vibrator powered. Don't be suprised if it doesn't start up. I'd suggest replacing the buffer capacitor across the transformer output -before- applying power to it. If the vibrator contacts aren't frozen or welded, not replacing the buffer cap. will make them that way :-). I fixed lots of Chevy radios for friends when I was a kid. They thought I was a god. 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:32:03 -0600 Daniel Wrightwrites: > > > Greetings! > > This might might be slightly OT since it's > not a HAM radio, but it does have tubes...heheh... > > My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup > truck and has a radio he wants to install. > > I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker > on the thing says: > > "Chevrolet; model 986669" > > Anyone have a clue as to where I might find > info on this radio? The first thing we will > want to do (after inspecting it) I guess, > will be to try to hook it up and see if it > plays. As I imagine these things have a bundle > of wires stickin' out the back, connection > info (power, speaker) would be good. > > Thanks a bunch! > > 73 de Dan -- WAØJRD .. > Lincoln, Nebraska > > > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:33:29 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio Oops! The 'Columbo Syndrome' ("Ahh.....there's just one more thing....") Don't forget: That radio is 6 Volt powered!!! 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:32:03 -0600 Daniel Wrightwrites: > > > Greetings! > > This might might be slightly OT since it's > not a HAM radio, but it does have tubes...heheh... > > My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup > truck and has a radio he wants to install. > > I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker > on the thing says: > > "Chevrolet; model 986669" ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:27:12 -0500 From: N2EY@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motorIn a message dated 3/17/2004 12:09:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, rondec@easystreet.com writes: > Railroads changed from steam to diesel-electric > for exactly the same reason. (labor costs) > Steam is simple, but a steam engine requires > unbelievable labor and > specialized skills compared to a diesel-electric. I have to dispute that, at least in part. Labor cost was indeed a factor for RRs, largely because there was no practical way to multiple-unit a steam engine. Double-headed steam meant two engine crews. By the peak of the RR steam era, such refinements as water scoops and semi-automatic stoking were perfected. Steam technology was well-understood and highly developed. There were even some steam turbine locos developed. First-generation diesel-electric locos were no picnic. Most required a fireman (actually a second engineer) to run them, because things like their cooling systems were not automatic. On a hilly division, the "fireman" might have to manually open and close the cooling shutters and engage/disengage the fan clutches in as many as 4 units once per hill while underway. And that was just one subsystem! Diesel-electrics cost much more to build, their fuel was more expensive per horsepower-hour and they required much more specialized maintenance and repair labor than steam. The economy of diesel mostly comes from areas other than direct labor. For example: Steamers required enormous quantities of fairly-clean water in order to operate. Collecting and distributing the required water was a major expense for the RRs, even with automatic pump and tank systems. Coal-fired steamers used large quantites of fuel that was more difficult and expensive to handle than diesel fuel. And there was also the problem of ash disposal. Steamers also required tenders to haul around the water and fuel. Engine service facilities were still needed, but the work of a lot of small roundhouses and turntables could be consolidated into a few big enginehouses at major yards. Steamers were built in many sizes, but there were few that were well-adapted to multiple roles. (The Pennsy K-4 comes to mind). By MU'ing diesels, any desired level of HP could be had with just one engine crew, *and* excess motive power could be transported where it was needed. (Hauling steamers "dead in train" is not practical unless you remove the side rods). Taxation gets into the picture, too. RRs in the USA were all private properties in the steam era, and paid taxes on the property value to every burg on their lines. All structures and other improvements were also taxed, so every steamer installation from the giant coaling facility to the small water tank was taxed. But rolling stock was *not* property-taxed. The pounding of steam engine drivers was harder on the track structure, requiring more track maintenance. Bridges and trestles had to be built to handle the shock loads of steam engines, not just the actual weight. This is one reason so many old rr bridges are still safe to use after 100+ years. Each of these factors (labor included) added up resulted in the inescapable conclusion that diesels could haul the same trains as steamers at a lower total cost, despite their higher initial price and more costly fuel. 73 de Jim, N2EYDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:55:59 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> OT: Big motor Good points, Jim. It emphasizes that the structure behind decisions is not as simple as we'd like at times. Of course, out here in the west where I was raised the railroads didn't pay "net" taxes... Indeed, they were given billions of dollars worth of land for being willing to put their tracks where they wanted, and then they were given carte blanche to monopolize shipping including banning roads and other forms of transport from their 'customers' - farmers and manufacturers who bought land from the railroad and who had to pay whatever the RR wanted to charge to ship their goods. It's still said, with truth I might add after living there for half a century, that California has the best government the Octopus (railroad) could buy. That's the less-desirable part of the legacy of Crocker, Stanford, Huntington and Hopkins. Maybe Gov Arnold will change that after nearly a 100 years. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: N2EY@aol.com [mailto:N2EY@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:27 AM To: rondec@easystreet.com; glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor In a message dated 3/17/2004 12:09:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, rondec@easystreet.com writes: > Railroads changed from steam to diesel-electric > for exactly the same reason. (labor costs) > Steam is simple, but a steam engine requires > unbelievable labor and > specialized skills compared to a diesel-electric. I have to dispute that, at least in part. Labor cost was indeed a factor for RRs, largely because there was no practical way to multiple-unit a steam engine. Double-headed steam meant two engine crews. By the peak of the RR steam era, such refinements as water scoops and semi-automatic stoking were perfected. Steam technology was well-understood and highly developed. There were even some steam turbine locos developed. First-generation diesel-electric locos were no picnic. Most required a fireman (actually a second engineer) to run them, because things like their cooling systems were not automatic. On a hilly division, the "fireman" might have to manually open and close the cooling shutters and engage/disengage the fan clutches in as many as 4 units once per hill while underway. And that was just one subsystem! Diesel-electrics cost much more to build, their fuel was more expensive per horsepower-hour and they required much more specialized maintenance and repair labor than steam. The economy of diesel mostly comes from areas other than direct labor. For example: Steamers required enormous quantities of fairly-clean water in order to operate. Collecting and distributing the required water was a major expense for the RRs, even with automatic pump and tank systems. Coal-fired steamers used large quantites of fuel that was more difficult and expensive to handle than diesel fuel. And there was also the problem of ash disposal. Steamers also required tenders to haul around the water and fuel. Engine service facilities were still needed, but the work of a lot of small roundhouses and turntables could be consolidated into a few big enginehouses at major yards. Steamers were built in many sizes, but there were few that were well-adapted to multiple roles. (The Pennsy K-4 comes to mind). By MU'ing diesels, any desired level of HP could be had with just one engine crew, *and* excess motive power could be transported where it was needed. (Hauling steamers "dead in train" is not practical unless you remove the side rods). Taxation gets into the picture, too. RRs in the USA were all private properties in the steam era, and paid taxes on the property value to every burg on their lines. All structures and other improvements were also taxed, so every steamer installation from the giant coaling facility to the small water tank was taxed. But rolling stock was *not* property-taxed. The pounding of steam engine drivers was harder on the track structure, requiring more track maintenance. Bridges and trestles had to be built to handle the shock loads of steam engines, not just the actual weight. This is one reason so many old rr bridges are still safe to use after 100+ years. Each of these factors (labor included) added up resulted in the inescapable conclusion that diesels could haul the same trains as steamers at a lower total cost, despite their higher initial price and more costly fuel. 73 de Jim, N2EYDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:15:48 EST From: Wd4nka@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor--part1_1d7.1c4b22c7.2d89fde4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well i guess like any technology, the passage from sail to steam, or from one technology to another has it's overlaps, and the sail / steam overlap is so much an overlap that you could actually pull a third "era" from the blend. Actually, steam got off to a very, very slow start owing to those very factors: labour costs and profitability, most noteably the latter. I speak of steam on the high seas. Even upon the time Isombard Kingdom Brunnell layed his last line of rail in an already rail-choked Great Britain and the steam locomotives and pumps were already into their third generation, far from the ratchet and lever gravity operated "Grass-hoppers" of the Rober Fulton era, it would be another one hundred years before you could call merchant sail "eclypsed". And for various reasons. Most of them could be answered by a snapshot of the merchantmarine world of 1929. Steam vessels had one thing going for them, maybe two. One was a minimised influence by weather and wind. You did not have to wait for a favourable wind just to leave port. Some vessels took the day just to tack out of the harbour. Another was the ability to sustain speeds. It took a long time to top a sailing speed, but so long as you didn't break down or run out of fuel, you kept going and going and going . . . . There were many industries however that did NOT utilise steam from sheer profitability, usually hauling non perishable freight, or semi perishable, like the lumber industry, especially down under where the square rigged lumber industry kept with sail nearly up to WW2. You see, steamers need fuel. Lots and lots of fuel, so much so that it bit heavily into stowage and cargo space. And instead of making money, that space was COSTING money. Another area where sail and wood kept out steam and iron was the polar trades. This was true also with most arctic and antarctic exploration. Glowbug connection: Reinartz served as ships sparks aboard the schooner Bowdouin, MacMillan's polar expedition in 1925, under the call WNP, or Wireless North Pole! He used his new tuner. BTW. Kept Nat'l Geo and his wife updated from time to time. Ironwood sheathing held up better than Iron and Steel. Oddly enough, these wooden ships would eventually employ diesel, so here is a case where steam NEVER entered the picture, the ships went from wood and sail straightway into metals and diesel. W3KW's 1929 service aboard the Nanuk, in the Seattle-Alaska trade saw use of a 3 masted schooner, electric generators, and a 6-cyl. diesel. Yet she carried and used full sail. Weathered better, and more cargo area. ( another glowbug connection.) Steam reigned in inland waters. Especially rivers. Also with military, the navies no longer were at the wind's mercy, and could carry on those iron dreadnoughts armament and ordinance never before seen afloat. And noteably passenger services, viz: Collins and Cunard line races to quickest sail the atlantic. By 1869 you could steam to London from NY aboard a Collins liner in just 14 days! In a couple years, 10. Before Garfield was shot, 8 days! Newspapers rang with the popularity, and a grudging poem was written by the brits: A steamer of the Collins Line a Yankee Doodle Notion has proved to run most prudently across the wide blue ocean. Her british rivals, no way slow her merits to discover Propose we buy her just to haul the british packets over! Thus we get the impression that much by the industrial revolution steam pretty much ended sail. Not so by a longshot. Sail oriented businesses like the fishing industry kept producing AND selling traditional wood sailers well into the '30s, some beyond. Many of these ships carried diesel, smaller types. Again, wood and sail jumping right over steam and into internal combustion. It's a cool subject that has many Glowbug intersects. Just like early aviation. gary // wd4nka visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_1d7.1c4b22c7.2d89fde4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well i guess=20= like any technology, the passage from
sail to steam, or from one technology to another has
it's overlaps, and the sail / steam overlap is so much
an overlap that you could actually pull a third "era"
from the blend.
Actually, steam got off to a very, very slow start owing
to those very factors: labour costs and profitability, most
noteably the latter. I speak of steam on the high seas.
Even upon the time Isombard Kingdom Brunnell layed
his last line of rail in an already rail-choked Great Britain
and the steam locomotives and pumps were already into
their third generation, far from the ratchet and lever=20
gravity operated "Grass-hoppers" of the Rober Fulton
era, it would be another one hundred years before you
could call merchant sail "eclypsed". And for various
reasons. Most of them could be answered by a snapshot
of the merchantmarine world of 1929.
Steam vessels had one thing going for them, maybe two.
One was a minimised influence by weather and wind.
You did not have to wait for a favourable wind just to leave
port. Some vessels took the day just to tack out of the
harbour.
Another was the ability to sustain speeds. It took a long
time to top a sailing speed, but so long as you didn't break
down or run out of fuel, you kept going and going and going . . . .=20
There were many industries however that did NOT utilise steam
from sheer profitability, usually hauling non perishable freight,
or semi perishable, like the lumber industry, especially down
under where the square rigged lumber industry kept with sail
nearly up to WW2. You see, steamers need fuel. Lots and lots
of fuel, so much so that it bit heavily into stowage and cargo
space. And instead of making money, that space was COSTING
money.
Another area where sail and wood kept out steam and iron
was the polar trades. This was true also with most arctic and
antarctic exploration. Glowbug connection:=20
Reinartz served as ships sparks aboard the schooner Bowdouin,=20
MacMillan's polar expedition in 1925, under the call WNP, or=20
Wireless North Pole! He used his new tuner. BTW. Kept Nat'l
Geo and his wife updated from time to time.
Ironwood sheathing held up better than Iron and Steel. Oddly
enough, these wooden ships would eventually employ diesel,
so here is a case where steam NEVER entered the picture,
the ships went from wood and sail straightway into metals=20
and diesel. W3KW's 1929 service aboard the Nanuk, in the
Seattle-Alaska trade saw use of a 3 masted schooner, electric
generators, and a 6-cyl. diesel. Yet she carried and used full
sail. Weathered better, and more cargo area. ( another glowbug
connection.)
Steam reigned in inland waters. Especially rivers. Also with
military, the navies no longer were at the wind's mercy, and
could carry on those iron dreadnoughts armament and ordinance
never before seen afloat. And noteably passenger services, viz:
Collins and Cunard line races to quickest sail the atlantic. By
1869 you could steam to London from NY aboard a Collins liner
in just 14 days! In a couple years, 10. Before Garfield was=20= shot,
8 days! Newspapers rang with the popularity, and a grudging
poem was written by the brits:
A steamer of the Collins Line
a Yankee Doodle Notion
has proved to run most prudently
across the wide blue ocean.
Her british rivals, no way slow
her merits to discover
Propose we buy her just to haul
the british packets over!
Thus we get the impression that much by the industrial
revolution steam pretty much ended sail. Not so by a=20
longshot.
Sail oriented businesses like the fishing industry kept
producing AND selling traditional wood sailers well into=20
the '30s, some beyond. Many of these ships carried diesel,=20
smaller types. Again, wood and sail jumping right
over steam and into internal combustion.
It's a cool subject that has many Glowbug intersects.
Just like early aviation.
gary // wd4nka
visit my site at:
http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_1d7.1c4b22c7.2d89fde4_boundary--Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:47:30 -0500 From: "Richard Brunner"Subject: Fw: GB> OT: Big motor Re: > There were many industries however that did NOT utilise steam > from sheer profitability, usually hauling non perishable freight, > or semi perishable, like the lumber industry, especially down > under where the square rigged lumber industry kept with sail > nearly up to WW2. You see, steamers need fuel. Lots and lots > of fuel, so much so that it bit heavily into stowage and cargo > space. And instead of making money, that space was COSTING > money. Yes, and don't forget the steel-hulled sailing ships in the guano trade from coast of Peru. They sailed, with boy-crews, around the horn to Europe until WWII. Maybe they had radios... Richard Brunner, AA1PDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:19:28 -0500 From: "Mike Silva"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C40C33.3D7093F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can I get really OT on an OT thread? I got around to watching "Captains = Courageous" (1937, Spencer Tracy, et al) a few years ago and that movie = had the most beautiful sailing scenes I've ever seen. Just awesome! Sailing ships are the glowbugs of the nautical world, wouldn't you say? 73, Mike, KK6GM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wd4nka@aol.com=20 To: rondec@easystreet.com=20 Cc: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor Well i guess like any technology, the passage from=20 sail to steam, or from one technology to another has=20 it's overlaps, and the sail / steam overlap is so much=20 an overlap that you could actually pull a third "era"=20 from the blend.=20 Actually, steam got off to a very, very slow start owing=20 to those very factors: labour costs and profitability, most=20 noteably the latter. I speak of steam on the high seas.=20 Even upon the time Isombard Kingdom Brunnell layed=20 his last line of rail in an already rail-choked Great Britain=20 and the steam locomotives and pumps were already into=20 their third generation, far from the ratchet and lever=20 gravity operated "Grass-hoppers" of the Rober Fulton=20 era, it would be another one hundred years before you=20 could call merchant sail "eclypsed". And for various=20 reasons. Most of them could be answered by a snapshot=20 of the merchantmarine world of 1929. =20 Steam vessels had one thing going for them, maybe two.=20 One was a minimised influence by weather and wind. =20 You did not have to wait for a favourable wind just to leave=20 port. Some vessels took the day just to tack out of the=20 harbour.=20 Another was the ability to sustain speeds. It took a long=20 time to top a sailing speed, but so long as you didn't break=20 down or run out of fuel, you kept going and going and going . . . .=20 There were many industries however that did NOT utilise steam=20 from sheer profitability, usually hauling non perishable freight,=20 or semi perishable, like the lumber industry, especially down=20 under where the square rigged lumber industry kept with sail=20 nearly up to WW2. You see, steamers need fuel. Lots and lots=20 of fuel, so much so that it bit heavily into stowage and cargo=20 space. And instead of making money, that space was COSTING=20 money. =20 Another area where sail and wood kept out steam and iron=20 was the polar trades. This was true also with most arctic and=20 antarctic exploration. Glowbug connection:=20 Reinartz served as ships sparks aboard the schooner Bowdouin,=20 MacMillan's polar expedition in 1925, under the call WNP, or=20 Wireless North Pole! He used his new tuner. BTW. Kept Nat'l=20 Geo and his wife updated from time to time.=20 Ironwood sheathing held up better than Iron and Steel. Oddly=20 enough, these wooden ships would eventually employ diesel,=20 so here is a case where steam NEVER entered the picture,=20 the ships went from wood and sail straightway into metals=20 and diesel. W3KW's 1929 service aboard the Nanuk, in the=20 Seattle-Alaska trade saw use of a 3 masted schooner, electric=20 generators, and a 6-cyl. diesel. Yet she carried and used full=20 sail. Weathered better, and more cargo area. ( another glowbug=20 connection.)=20 Steam reigned in inland waters. Especially rivers. Also with=20 military, the navies no longer were at the wind's mercy, and=20 could carry on those iron dreadnoughts armament and ordinance=20 never before seen afloat. And noteably passenger services, viz:=20 Collins and Cunard line races to quickest sail the atlantic. By=20 1869 you could steam to London from NY aboard a Collins liner=20 in just 14 days! In a couple years, 10. Before Garfield was shot,=20 8 days! Newspapers rang with the popularity, and a grudging=20 poem was written by the brits:=20 A steamer of the Collins Line=20 a Yankee Doodle Notion=20 has proved to run most prudently=20 across the wide blue ocean.=20 Her british rivals, no way slow=20 her merits to discover=20 Propose we buy her just to haul=20 the british packets over!=20 Thus we get the impression that much by the industrial=20 revolution steam pretty much ended sail. Not so by a=20 longshot.=20 Sail oriented businesses like the fishing industry kept=20 producing AND selling traditional wood sailers well into=20 the '30s, some beyond. Many of these ships carried diesel,=20 smaller types. Again, wood and sail jumping right=20 over steam and into internal combustion.=20 It's a cool subject that has many Glowbug intersects.=20 Just like early aviation.=20 gary // wd4nka=20 visit my site at:=20 http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20 "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.=20 It's already tomorrow in Australia." ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C40C33.3D7093F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableCan I get really OT on an OT = thread? I got=20 around to watching "Captains Courageous" (1937, Spencer Tracy, et al) a = few=20 years ago and that movie had the most beautiful sailing scenes I've = ever=20 seen. Just awesome!Sailing ships are the glowbugs of the = nautical=20 world, wouldn't you say?73,Mike, KK6GM----- Original Message -----------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C40C33.3D7093F0--From:=20 Wd4nka@aol.comSent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 = 2:15=20 PMSubject: Re: GB> OT: Big = motorWell i=20 guess like any technology, the passage from
sail to steam, or from = one=20 technology to another has
it's overlaps, and the sail / steam = overlap is=20 so much
an overlap that you could actually pull a third "era" =
from the=20 blend.
Actually, steam got off to a very, very slow start = owing
to=20 those very factors: labour costs and profitability, most
noteably = the=20 latter. I speak of steam on the high seas.
Even upon the = time=20 Isombard Kingdom Brunnell layed
his last line of rail in an = already=20 rail-choked Great Britain
and the steam locomotives and pumps were = already=20 into
their third generation, far from the ratchet and lever =
gravity=20 operated "Grass-hoppers" of the Rober Fulton
era, it would be = another one=20 hundred years before you
could call merchant sail "eclypsed". = And=20 for various
reasons. Most of them could be answered by a = snapshot=20
of the merchantmarine world of 1929.
Steam vessels = had one=20 thing going for them, maybe two.
One was a minimised influence by = weather=20 and wind.
You did not have to wait for a favourable wind = just to=20 leave
port. Some vessels took the day just to tack out of = the=20
harbour.
Another was the ability to sustain speeds. It = took a long=20
time to top a sailing speed, but so long as you didn't break =
down or=20 run out of fuel, you kept going and going and going . . . . =
There were=20 many industries however that did NOT utilise steam
from sheer=20 profitability, usually hauling non perishable freight,
or semi = perishable,=20 like the lumber industry, especially down
under where the square = rigged=20 lumber industry kept with sail
nearly up to WW2. You see, = steamers=20 need fuel. Lots and lots
of fuel, so much so that it bit heavily = into=20 stowage and cargo
space. And instead of making money, that = space was=20 COSTING
money.
Another area where sail and wood = kept out=20 steam and iron
was the polar trades. This was true also with = most=20 arctic and
antarctic exploration. Glowbug connection:=20
Reinartz served as ships sparks aboard the schooner = Bowdouin,=20
MacMillan's polar expedition in 1925, under the call WNP, or =
Wireless=20 North Pole! He used his new tuner. BTW. Kept Nat'l
Geo = and his=20 wife updated from time to time.
Ironwood sheathing held up = better than=20 Iron and Steel. Oddly
enough, these wooden ships would = eventually=20 employ diesel,
so here is a case where steam NEVER entered the = picture,=20
the ships went from wood and sail straightway into metals
and = diesel.=20 W3KW's 1929 service aboard the Nanuk, in the
Seattle-Alaska = trade=20 saw use of a 3 masted schooner, electric
generators, and a 6-cyl. = diesel.=20 Yet she carried and used full
sail. Weathered better, = and more=20 cargo area. ( another glowbug
connection.)
Steam reigned = in inland=20 waters. Especially rivers. Also with
military, the = navies no=20 longer were at the wind's mercy, and
could carry on those iron=20 dreadnoughts armament and ordinance
never before seen afloat. = And=20 noteably passenger services, viz:
Collins and Cunard line races to = quickest sail the atlantic. By
1869 you could steam to = London from=20 NY aboard a Collins liner
in just 14 days! In a couple = years, 10.=20 Before Garfield was shot,
8 days! Newspapers rang with = the=20 popularity, and a grudging
poem was written by the brits: =
A=20 steamer of the Collins Line
a Yankee Doodle Notion
has proved = to run=20 most prudently
across the wide blue ocean.
Her british = rivals, no=20 way slow
her merits to discover
Propose we buy her just to = haul=20
the british packets over!
Thus we get the impression = that much=20 by the industrial
revolution steam pretty much ended sail. = Not so by=20 a
longshot.
Sail oriented businesses like the fishing = industry=20 kept
producing AND selling traditional wood sailers well into =
the=20 '30s, some beyond. Many of these ships carried diesel, =
smaller=20 types. Again, wood and sail jumping right
over steam and = into=20 internal combustion.
It's a cool subject that has many Glowbug = intersects.
Just like early aviation.
gary // wd4nka =
visit=20 my site at:
http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. =
It's=20 already tomorrow in Australia." =Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:36:51 -0600 From: msmith@licor.com Subject: GB> National MB-40-DL tank assyDoes anyone have the documentation that came with a National MB-40-DL tank assembly?? I have one here. It sure is a cute little bugger. Any help out there, or should I draw it out? Thanks, MichaelDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:40:09 -0500 From: N2EY@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motorIn a message dated 3/17/2004 1:55:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, rondec@easystreet.com writes: > Good points, Jim. It emphasizes that the structure > behind decisions is not > as simple as we'd like at times. Exactly! Part of the reason for the conversion to SS from tubes was that SS was supposedly "better" because it was newer. Yet we saw things like the original Quasar TVs with "the works in a drawer" so they'd be easy to service... > > Of course, out here in the west where I was raised > the railroads didn't pay > "net" taxes... But they did pay taxes. > Indeed, they were given billions of dollars worth of land for > being willing to put their tracks where they wanted, and then they were > given carte blanche to monopolize shipping including banning roads and other > forms of transport from their 'customers' - farmers and manufacturers who > bought land from the railroad and who had to pay whatever the RR wanted to > charge to ship their goods. Actually it's not that simple. The RRs were given land as an inducement to build the transcontinental and other lines because the govt. knew the land would not develop any other way. The land was not worth much until the RR came along because of the time and cost of transportation. And the rr's more than paid for every bit of land in property taxes over the years. Once the ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission) was formed, the RRs could not charge whatever they wanted. In fact, one of the ICC's primary functions was total control of RR freight charges. Here's how it worked: Every type of rail cargo, and every point where a shipment could originate or destinate was cataloged by the ICC. And there was a published rate for every possible freight move, and that's what the customer paid. A set of rate books was several feet high. All this began in the precomputer era, and was not really changed until the Staggers Act of 1980. It did not matter what route was used, or whether the rr's involved made money or not, the rate was the rate. As "common carriers", they *had to* provide the service. And each carload was a separate transaction. It did not matter whether it was a single carload shipped one time, or a daily "unit train" of 120 cars, the rate for a given type of freight from Point A to Point B was the same. No discounts, no longterm contracts. No abandoning unprofitable lines and services without govt. approval. Most of all, the competition (trucks, mostly) had their rights-of-way built for them at taxpayer's expense, and their rates were not regulated the same way. Railroads in the USA were almost wiped out by such over-regulation. > It's still said, with truth I might add after > living there for half a > century, that California has the best government the Octopus (railroad) > could buy. That's the less-desirable part of the legacy of Crocker, > Stanford, Huntington and Hopkins. Sure! > Maybe Gov Arnold will > change that after > nearly a 100 years. > Hopefully, but doubtful. Do you really think he's the governor, and not simply a figurehead to get around term limits? 73 de Jim, N2EYDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:40:23 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor This is real interesting stuff to know. Thanks for sharing it! I certainly am no expert, and rely only on hearsay on this, but I was always under the impression that the diesel WOULD have been a big saver of labor costs when it was introduced, except for the political clout of the labor it was eliminating The diesel locomotive came into widespread use during a time when unemployment was incredibly high, groups like the American Communist Party were openly flourishing, there was talk of revolution, labor strife was constant, labor violence was cheered and condoned by the press, and labor's voting clout at the time could "purchase" just about any legislation it wanted. I was thinking that the position of fireman on the diesels existed through legislative fiat. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine the railroad management not firing the firemen, and telling the engineers to open and close the shutters by themselves, unless they were prohibited by law or contract. Diesels below a certain tonnage did not require a brakeman. I'm certain that this was an arbitrary limit, set either by law or contract. Wasn't there a grandfather clause for some of the labor, too? Or maybe for certain labor rules? I was always assuming that was why you virtually never see cabooses anymore. The guys that rode back there retired and didn't have to be replaced, maybe? To give you an idea of some of those work rules, I used to spend a lot of time at a customer's place near a big CNW (now U.P.) division point, Clinton, Iowa. Sometimes, (often, actually) a crew of a eastbound freight would hit its maximum hours limit before reaching Clinton, so they would stop the train at Low Moor, about 5 miles west of town. A little pickup on railroad wheels would chauffeur a new crew out to Low Moor, and to bring the old crew back to Clinton. The new crew would bring the train on into Clinton, and be paid the full day's wages and benefits for the 45 minutes or so of work. They were not allowed to move the train once it made it to the yard, because the regularly scheduled crew was waiting to take over. And of course, the switch engine guys were the only ones who could shuffle any cars around that needed it. The switchers were not allowed, however, to proceed beyond the marked "yard limit". So, I guess I'm saying there are always conflicting interests between different groups of people that also play a part in the success or failure of any technological advance. It's a Gordian Knot that makes the human condition interesting to observe (speaking as an outsider, hi hi): Everybody instinctively wants to eat. Nobody instinctively wants to pay. 73, Tom- author of: "Women Are From Venus - Is That Near Cedar Rapids? ----- Original Message ----- From:To: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor > In a message dated 3/17/2004 12:09:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, rondec@easystreet.com writes: > > > Railroads changed from steam to diesel-electric > > for exactly the same reason. > > (labor costs) > > > Steam is simple, but a steam engine requires > > unbelievable labor and > > specialized skills compared to a diesel-electric. > > I have to dispute that, at least in part. > > Labor cost was indeed a factor for RRs, largely because there was no practical way to multiple-unit a steam engine. Double-headed steam meant two engine crews. > > By the peak of the RR steam era, such refinements as water scoops and semi-automatic stoking were perfected. Steam technology was well-understood and highly developed. There were even some steam turbine locos developed. > > First-generation diesel-electric locos were no picnic. Most required a fireman (actually a second engineer) to run them, because things like their cooling systems were not automatic. On a hilly division, the "fireman" might have to manually open and close the cooling shutters and engage/disengage the fan clutches in as many as 4 units once per hill while underway. And that was just one subsystem! > > Diesel-electrics cost much more to build, their fuel was more expensive per horsepower-hour and they required much more specialized maintenance and repair labor than steam. > > The economy of diesel mostly comes from areas other than direct labor. For example: > > Steamers required enormous quantities of fairly-clean water in order to operate. Collecting and distributing the required water was a major expense for the RRs, even with automatic pump and tank systems. > > Coal-fired steamers used large quantites of fuel that was more difficult and expensive to handle than diesel fuel. And there was also the problem of ash disposal. > > Steamers also required tenders to haul around the water and fuel. > > Engine service facilities were still needed, but the work of a lot of small roundhouses and turntables could be consolidated into a few big enginehouses at major yards. > > Steamers were built in many sizes, but there were few that were well-adapted to multiple roles. (The Pennsy K-4 comes to mind). By MU'ing diesels, any desired level of HP could be had with just one engine crew, *and* excess motive power could be transported where it was needed. (Hauling steamers "dead in train" is not practical unless you remove the side rods). > > Taxation gets into the picture, too. RRs in the USA were all private properties in the steam era, and paid taxes on the property value to every burg on their lines. All structures and other improvements were also taxed, so every steamer installation from the giant coaling facility to the small water tank was taxed. But rolling stock was *not* property-taxed. > > The pounding of steam engine drivers was harder on the track structure, requiring more track maintenance. > > Bridges and trestles had to be built to handle the shock loads of steam engines, not just the actual weight. This is one reason so many old rr bridges are still safe to use after 100+ years. > > Each of these factors (labor included) added up resulted in the inescapable conclusion that diesels could haul the same trains as steamers at a lower total cost, despite their higher initial price and more costly fuel. > > 73 de Jim, N2EY > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:30:39 -0500 From: luc dugasSubject: GB> crt tube story This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_wEwsi02ASiBmyjgw/eqagg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT one day a shortwave listener phoned to a friend of mine clem ve2bia to buy some tubes. he told clem he was saving television screen tube too. he was dismantling them to save the electrode (cannon). then he was putting the electrodes in a strong acid like chloridric or sulfuric acid. the next day he was adding 45 gallons of water to the solution and he was using that mix to water the vegetables in the garden with outstanding results. biggest vegetables ever seen. how about that. luc ve2lgj 73s --Boundary_(ID_wEwsi02ASiBmyjgw/eqagg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BITone day a shortwave listener phoned to a friend of mine clem ve2bia to buy some tubes. he told clem he was saving television screen tube too. he was dismantling them to save the electrode (cannon). then he was putting the electrodes in a strong acid like chloridric or sulfuric acid. the next day he was adding 45 gallons of water to the solution and he was using that mix to water the vegetables in the garden with outstanding results. biggest vegetables ever seen. how about that. luc ve2lgj 73s--Boundary_(ID_wEwsi02ASiBmyjgw/eqagg)--Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:59:21 -0600 From: "Crawfish"Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio The cap Steve mentioned is a culprit. Better stock up on vibrators and OZ4 rectifier tubes.I have a 6 volt Mallory I will send you just for postage. Joe Crawford W4AAB ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve SmithTo: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:28 AM Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio > That is a standard (non-pushbutton) radio from a 1953-54 Chevy. It > should be a cakewalk to hook up. Most likely it will have a "flying > lead" for the A+ and probably the dial lamp. I can't remember how the > speaker connects but it will be obvious. It will be vibrator powered. > Don't be suprised if it doesn't start up. I'd suggest replacing the > buffer capacitor across the transformer output -before- applying power to > it. If the vibrator contacts aren't frozen or welded, not replacing the > buffer cap. will make them that way :-). > > I fixed lots of Chevy radios for friends when I was a kid. They thought > I was a god. > > 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL > Oxnard, CA USA > "Snort Rosin" > > > On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:32:03 -0600 Daniel Wright > writes: > > > > > > Greetings! > > > > This might might be slightly OT since it's > > not a HAM radio, but it does have tubes...heheh... > > > > My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup > > truck and has a radio he wants to install. > > > > I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker > > on the thing says: > > > > "Chevrolet; model 986669" > > > > Anyone have a clue as to where I might find > > info on this radio? The first thing we will > > want to do (after inspecting it) I guess, > > will be to try to hook it up and see if it > > plays. As I imagine these things have a bundle > > of wires stickin' out the back, connection > > info (power, speaker) would be good. > > > > Thanks a bunch! > > > > 73 de Dan -- WAØJRD .. > > Lincoln, Nebraska > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:26:38 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> crt tube story Sounds like these weren't ordinary "picture tubes". Probably "carrot ray" instead of "cathode ray"... Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of luc dugas Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:31 PM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu; armyradios@yahoogroups.com; Old Tube Radios Subject: GB> crt tube story one day a shortwave listener phoned to a friend of mine clem ve2bia to buy some tubes. he told clem he was saving television screen tube too. he was dismantling them to save the electrode (cannon). then he was putting the electrodes in a strong acid like chloridric or sulfuric acid. the next day he was adding 45 gallons of water to the solution and he was using that mix to water the vegetables in the garden with outstanding results. biggest vegetables ever seen. how about that. luc ve2lgj 73sDate: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:44:50 EST From: W6jod@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> National MB-40-DL tank assy--part1_1df.1b832e2a.2d8a4b02_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael, I haven't seen or heard of an MB-40DL. I am aware of an original MB-40 and a later MB-40SL (for swinging link). I used the latter more than 50 years ago as the output tank in an exciter with a 2E26 which, in turn, fed another MB-40SL as the input circuit for an 813 power amplifier. The design stems from the mid 1940s or so and was covered in several articles and National ads in QST magazine. The MB-40SL link also has a Faraday shield to prevent capacitive coupling of harmonics to help reduce or prevent TVI. You can download the manual for the larger, more powerful, MB-150 from: http://bama.edebris.com/bama_dir/downloads/ It is in the National directory. This is the mirror BAMA site and works much better for IE equipped browsers. Several diagrams and theory of operation is all there. 73, Norm Hall, W6JOD --part1_1df.1b832e2a.2d8a4b02_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael,
I haven't seen or heard of an MB-40DL. I am aware of an original MB-40= and a later MB-40SL (for swinging link). I used the latter more than=20= 50 years ago as the output tank in an exciter with a 2E26 which, in turn, fe= d another MB-40SL as the input circuit for an 813 power amplifier.
The design stems from the mid 1940s or so and was covered in several article= s and National ads in QST magazine. The MB-40SL link also has a Farada= y shield to prevent capacitive coupling of harmonics to help reduce or preve= nt TVI.
You can download the manual for the larger, more powerful, MB-150 from:
http://bama.edebris= .com/bama_dir/downloads/ It is in the National directory.&nb= sp; This is the mirror BAMA site and works much better for IE equipped brows= ers. Several diagrams and theory of operation is all there.
73,
Norm Hall, W6JOD --part1_1df.1b832e2a.2d8a4b02_boundary--Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:48:20 -0500 From: "dave hooker"Subject: GB> big motors-steam As a former paper industry Maintenance Manager I can understand the switch away from steam. (we used a lot of it). High-pressure steam (such as found in locomotive engines) can be very dangerous. Small steam leaks can be deadly and at times are almost invisible if under high pressure. Remember, the Latent heat energy contained in high pressure steam can be several times that of boiling water. However,there is such a mix of classic charm, grace and power in the old locomotives that I still find myself going down to our railway museum just to get a glimse of them running. (glowbug connection- steam runs though TUBES- - -gosh that was bad!) 73's Dave WB4KVZ _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:42:12 -0500 From: Bill CooperSubject: Fwd: Re: GB> The TDSL (Tube Data Sheet Locator) Personal For those of us that don't have a personal copy of the RCA HB-3 tube manual, the following link may be of interest: http://www.pmillett.addr.com/hb-3_tube_manual.htm Bill Cooper >X-Authentication-Warning: piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu: domo set sender to >owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu using -f >X-Sender: r390a@205.152.59.16 >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:41:54 -0600 >To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu >From: Tom Norris>Subject: Re: GB> The TDSL (Tube Data Sheet Locator) Personal Edition >Sender: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu > >And, instead of being a simple database that anyone can >use, it is a windows only program. I have OSX and Linux >machines. Oh well, *my type* probably doesn't need that >program anyway, since I have an RCA HB-3 data book set >that covers a little bit of everything - though it is missing >the transmitting tube volume, if there was a transmitting >tube volume. The data in the HB-3 also included operating >curves and other good details. :-) > >Tom > >>I just found out about this free download that gives you tube data at >>your fingertips. >> >>Just go to : >> >>http://www.duncanamps.com/tdslpe/ >> >>and download it for data on 1700 tubes. Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:02:39 -0800 From: "Hue Miller"Subject: GB> Old Car Radio & problem with SAMS.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Hernlem"> and they show a hit at SAMS #224-6 for a General Motors model #986669. It > costs $20 to order it on-line. Here's the reason, in my opinion, why SAMS has become mostly useless: their prices are unrealistic for most of this junque. If i buy a used CB or car radio for $1 to $10, i don't much feel like paying $20 for a a couple pages of information. AND, stuff you'd gladly pay $20 - OR MORE - for, like current and recent electronics equipment, NO LONGER goes into print at SAMS - it's proprietary information - you ship it to a repair depot, or if you're really in luck, they will sell you a service manual for $40-100, after you spend hours figuring out whom to contact for that priviledge. ( I would probably exempt good old, much-badmouthed Radio Shack from the above criticism: their service manuals are excellent, educational, and very reasonable priced indeed - but they do not stay in print forever - after a certain number of years, you are out of luck here too. ) Remember when some electronics gear came with a schematic pasted inside? -Hue Miller Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:09:46 -0800 From: "Hue Miller"Subject: GB> Re: Old Car Radio ----- Original Message ----- From:To: "Glowbugs" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:00 AM Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio > Actually, this should be a great radio for BCB DX if he has an original > equipment antenna. It never ceases to amaze me how well the Sapphire in > my Beetle and the original equipment radio in my Bronco hear DX, as > compared to a modern digital display PLL thingy. > > 73, Dan, WB5YUZ One problem with the modern car radios is the step-step-step tuning. Most of them mute the output while you're tuning. Makes dx'ing while driving a hassle. Also you cannot offtune by any amount less than 10 kHz to fine- tune away from QRM. Thinking about this makes me realize i should repair this $1.00 Chevy tube radio, with the classic 12-volt tubes, and use it in my vehicle, even if it's just set up on the dash and plugged into the lighter. This step by step tuning means you cannot use the old-time xtal controlled shortwave converters with the car radios. One exception - i have a Kraco digital tuning car radio which uses an unusual early system: the LO is analog, continuously-tuning, non microprocessor, and the digital readout seems to just be a counter that reads exactly what the VFO is set at. -Hue Miller Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:14:40 -0600 From: "Crawfish"Subject: GB> Tubes For Trade This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C40C64.DC0B2F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the big box of tubes I got the other day(HK-254 and 4-65) I found a = goodly number of 6EJ7 as well as a couple of 826 tubes. The 826's were = used in the older Gonset amps. I also have an 832A. I am willing to = trade these tubes for big 4-pin sockets to fit the HK-254's.I also have = some 1625's and need two sockets for them.Private e-mail only. Also = wondering if anyone ever used the 4-65's as push-pull modulators. = Joe W4AAB ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C40C64.DC0B2F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableIn the big box of tubes I got the other = day(HK-254=20 and 4-65) I found a goodly number of 6EJ7 as well as a couple of 826 = tubes. The=20 826's were used in the older Gonset amps. I also have an 832A. I am = willing to=20 trade these tubes for big 4-pin sockets to fit the HK-254's.I also have = some=20 1625's and need two sockets for them.Private e-mail only. Also wondering = if=20 anyone ever used the 4-65's as push-pull modulators.=20 = =20 = =20 = =20 = =20 = =20 = =20 Joe W4AAB------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C40C64.DC0B2F80--Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 04:11:04 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: RE: GB> Old Car Radio & problem with SAMS.... The only great thing is that their on-line search feature lets me figure out whether there exists a Photofact and then I can run down to the library and copy it for a fraction of what they ask. Brad >From: "Hue Miller">To: >Subject: GB> Old Car Radio & problem with SAMS.... >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:02:39 -0800 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brad Hernlem" > > > and they show a hit at SAMS #224-6 for a General Motors model #986669. >It > > costs $20 to order it on-line. > >Here's the reason, in my opinion, why SAMS has become mostly useless: >their prices are unrealistic for most of this junque. If i buy a used CB or >car radio for $1 to $10, i don't much feel like paying $20 for a a couple >pages of information. AND, stuff you'd gladly pay $20 - OR MORE - >for, like current and recent electronics equipment, NO LONGER goes >into print at SAMS - it's proprietary information - you ship it to a >repair depot, or if you're really in luck, they will sell you a service >manual for $40-100, after you spend hours figuring out whom to >contact for that priviledge. >( I would probably exempt good old, much-badmouthed Radio >Shack from the above criticism: their service manuals are excellent, >educational, and very reasonable priced indeed - but they do not >stay in print forever - after a certain number of years, you are out >of luck here too. ) >Remember when some electronics gear came with a schematic >pasted inside? >-Hue Miller _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:46:13 -0500 From: "RJ Mattson"Subject: GB> Litz wire This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0140_01C40C82.69B2E4F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Was someone looking for Litz wire? http://www.schmarder.com/radios/sale/wire.htm bob...w2ami ------=_NextPart_000_0140_01C40C82.69B2E4F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableWas someone looking for Litz = wire?bob...w2ami------=_NextPart_000_0140_01C40C82.69B2E4F0--Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:43:20 -0000 From: "william stephenson"Subject: GB> avo model 40 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C40CBC.AF1BDBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, bit of a longshot but does anyone in the group possiably have a = copy of the operating instructions for an "AVO Model 40" multimeter. = this meter seems to require an external supply to measure resistance in = the 100,000 ohms range, for the other ranges it uses an internal 1v5 = volt battery. have searched the net but come up with nothing for this model, plenty on = the model 8 etc. cheers Bill G4KKI ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C40CBC.AF1BDBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableHi All,= bit of a=20 longshot but does anyone in the group possiably have a copy of the = operating=20 instructions for an "AVO Model 40" multimeter. this meter seems to = require an=20 external supply to measure resistance in the 100,000 ohms range, for the = other=20 ranges it uses an internal 1v5 volt battery.have searched the net but come up with = nothing for=20 this model, plenty on the model 8 etc.cheersBill G4KKI------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C40CBC.AF1BDBC0--Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:35:47 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: GB> Speaking of tubes manualsHas anyone ever seen the RCA 'pindex'? It' got pages cut into three leaves. Each page has a set of tube base diagrams. Diagrams are the same for all three leaves. So, if you're working on a radio, you can flip the leaves and see the base diagrams of three different tubes all at once. Makes troubleshooting on old radios much easier. -BobDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:48:24 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio & problem with SAMS....OK guys. Here is the BEST online resource for old radio schematics...free of charge I do not know if the particular GM radio is there, but the chassis are generally derivative so it's worth a look at similar... http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources CHeck Chassis to make sure it is actually GM made. -bob On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Hue Miller wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Hernlem"> > > and they show a hit at SAMS #224-6 for a General Motors model #986669. It > > costs $20 to order it on-line. > > Here's the reason, in my opinion, why SAMS has become mostly useless: > their prices are unrealistic for most of this junque. If i buy a used CB or > car radio for $1 to $10, i don't much feel like paying $20 for a a couple > pages of information. AND, stuff you'd gladly pay $20 - OR MORE - > for, like current and recent electronics equipment, NO LONGER goes > into print at SAMS - it's proprietary information - you ship it to a > repair depot, or if you're really in luck, they will sell you a service > manual for $40-100, after you spend hours figuring out whom to > contact for that priviledge. > ( I would probably exempt good old, much-badmouthed Radio > Shack from the above criticism: their service manuals are excellent, > educational, and very reasonable priced indeed - but they do not > stay in print forever - after a certain number of years, you are out > of luck here too. ) > Remember when some electronics gear came with a schematic > pasted inside? > -Hue Miller > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:00:07 -0500 From: ma.locksmith@juno.com Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio & problem with SAMS....Well, for that reason you have to make sure you have a library card. Most all of the Sams publications are available FREE (for a couple of weeks) from your local library! Some large libraries have subscriptions to the Sams publications and have all or nearly all of them. What you need to do is go down to your local library and ask if they participate in the "Interlibrary Loan Program". If so, they are able to search state wide, and even country wide, sometimes internationally, to find the document you want. You "order" it, they find it and ask the owner for the loan, it comes to your local library and you pick it up there just like any other book. I've not pair for a Sams Photofact in the last 20 years. I get what I need from the Worcester (MA) Public Library by going to my local and asking. Mine even has an on-line request form. It's great to have a library card. However, your point about newer equipment is well taken. Ed K1ZOK On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:02:39 -0800 "Hue Miller"writes: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Hernlem" > > > and they show a hit at SAMS #224-6 for a General Motors model > #986669. It > > costs $20 to order it on-line. > > Here's the reason, in my opinion, why SAMS has become mostly > useless: > their prices are unrealistic for most of this junque. If i buy a > used CB or > car radio for $1 to $10, i don't much feel like paying $20 for a a > couple > pages of information. AND, stuff you'd gladly pay $20 - OR MORE - > for, like current and recent electronics equipment, NO LONGER goes > into print at SAMS - it's proprietary information - you ship it to a > > repair depot, or if you're really in luck, they will sell you a > service > manual for $40-100, after you spend hours figuring out whom to > contact for that priviledge. > ( I would probably exempt good old, much-badmouthed Radio > Shack from the above criticism: their service manuals are > excellent, > educational, and very reasonable priced indeed - but they do not > stay in print forever - after a certain number of years, you are > out > of luck here too. ) > Remember when some electronics gear came with a schematic > pasted inside? > -Hue Miller > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:25:16 -0000 From: "tom"Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio some time in the past I ran acrost a web site that had a lot of info on old car radios.Hook up diagrams and sutch. I can't find the URL but I think if you search you can find it. If I get time I'll look kc8eaf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Wright"To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:32 PM Subject: GB> Old Car Radio > > > Greetings! > > This might might be slightly OT since it's > not a HAM radio, but it does have tubes...heheh... > > My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup > truck and has a radio he wants to install. > > I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker > on the thing says: > > "Chevrolet; model 986669" > > Anyone have a clue as to where I might find > info on this radio? The first thing we will > want to do (after inspecting it) I guess, > will be to try to hook it up and see if it > plays. As I imagine these things have a bundle > of wires stickin' out the back, connection > info (power, speaker) would be good. > > Thanks a bunch! > > 73 de Dan -- WAØJRD .. > Lincoln, Nebraska > > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:27:45 -0500 From:Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio & problem with SAMS.... Somebody might want to check me out on this, but back when i lived in Palm Harbour, FL. , right up the road off of Alt.19 was a company called "Antique Auto Radio" which did an international mail order business. Used to advertise in AWA's newsletters. This goes back to, hmm . . . about 1992. ( oh, it's really spelled "Palm Harbor". Skip the 'u') I know they changed locations. But from what i understand, they are still around, somewhere. Antique auto radio specialised in the odd-balls, like Kaiser Frasier and Stude Commanders and Nash Ambassadors. They would alternately trade and rehab. You could send them, say, and old FoMoCo radio from a 52 Custom and maybe get the grille of an AM "wonderbar" Delco. Kinda like Bob Rader does with "Rader's Relics", which ads in the DuPont Registry. You can trade value for value ( if ever in Orlando, check out his lot. It's a museum, and every car has a name and docier.) Anyway, check and see if they are still around. Last visit i had with them in their old location ( they helped me with my vintage magazine procurement. ) they were doing a land office business. gary // wd4nka ReformSchool Music LTD ( very limited. ) ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Caveat: don't hold anything written above as absolutely factual unless you know it to be so, or have done your own homework. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:55:34 -0500 From: "Bill Henderson"Subject: Re: GB> Speaking of tubes manuals YEP!!! I have one of these. Thought about selling it a few times... but find it invaluable and change my mind before I do. - Bill H. ************** > >Has anyone ever seen the RCA 'pindex'? > >It' got pages cut into three leaves. >Each page has a set of tube base diagrams. >Diagrams are the same for all three leaves. > >So, if you're working on a radio, you can flip the leaves >and see the base diagrams of three different tubes all at >once. Makes troubleshooting on old radios much easier. > >-Bob > > > > > > > Sent using cyberus.ca WebMail - http://www.cyberus.ca/Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:04:01 -0800 (PST) From: John DalySubject: GB> Antique Automobile Radio's website Antique Automobile website is - http://www.antiqueautomobileradio.com/ Just a follow up to AH7I comments below. And I have no involvement, affiliation, or even know the people there. 73 John WA9WHD --- reformschool@juno.com wrote: > Somebody might want to check me out > on this, but back when i lived in Palm > Harbour, FL. , right up the road off of Alt.19 > was a company called "Antique Auto Radio" > which did an international mail order business. > Used to advertise in AWA's newsletters. > This goes back to, hmm . . . about 1992. > > ( oh, it's really spelled "Palm Harbor". Skip the > 'u') > > I know they changed locations. But from what > i understand, they are still around, somewhere. > > Antique auto radio specialised in the odd-balls, > like Kaiser Frasier and Stude Commanders > and Nash Ambassadors. They would alternately > trade and rehab. You could send them, say, > and old FoMoCo radio from a 52 Custom and > maybe get the grille of an AM "wonderbar" Delco. > > Kinda like Bob Rader does with "Rader's Relics", > which ads in the DuPont Registry. You can trade > value for value ( if ever in Orlando, check out his > lot. It's a museum, and every car has a name > and docier.) > > Anyway, check and see if they are still around. Last > visit i had with them in their old location ( they > helped > me with my vintage magazine procurement. ) they > were doing a land office business. > > gary // wd4nka > ReformSchool Music LTD ( very limited. ) > ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > Caveat: don't hold anything written above as > absolutely factual > unless you know it to be so, or have done your own > homework. > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno > SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ===== John L. Daly, Ph.D. Creative Insights Corporation 1539 Coppersmith Ct. Lutz, Florida, USA 33559 Telephone: (813)949-2504 (Voice); (813) 994-5408 (Fax) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.comDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:47:38 -0500 From: "Ralph Zekelman"Subject: Re: GB> Speaking of tubes manuals I have several of different dates. Very valuable and I would not consider selling. You may be able to spot one at a hamfest. ZEKE W9HZX > > Has anyone ever seen the RCA 'pindex'? > > It' got pages cut into three leaves. > Each page has a set of tube base diagrams. > Diagrams are the same for all three leaves. > > So, if you're working on a radio, you can flip the leaves > and see the base diagrams of three different tubes all at > once. Makes troubleshooting on old radios much easier. > > -Bob > > > > > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:19:05 -0500 From: "Dave and Merrijoy"Subject: GB> w0gfq Special event for today Too bad the special event committee elected to put their activity below the General Class sector. Dave w9ocmDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:17:50 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: RE: GB> Litz wire Now I don't know anything about this fellow's stuff but it is worth taking note that not all wire that is comprised of very fine strands of copper wire is "Litz". I have some fiber wrapped stuff that is made of bundles of very fine wire (and made by the same company as several products shown on this site - New England Wire) which matches the description of Litz except in one important property ... the individual fine wires are not insulated. Proper Litz, to have the greatest benefit at HF operation, should have each little wire insulated from the rest. Caveat Emptor. Also, do not take this as implying that the mentioned seller is misrepresenting his products. But it is worth asking these details, however, if you plan to buy and are looking for something other than simply super-flexible wire. Brad >From: "RJ Mattson">To: >Subject: GB> Litz wire >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:46:13 -0500 > >Was someone looking for Litz wire? >http://www.schmarder.com/radios/sale/wire.htm >bob...w2ami _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:12:50 EST From: "Edward M Shawlis, Jr."Subject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio The diagram can be found at http://techpreservation.dyndns.org/schematics/ >From Ed Shawlis> > My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup > > truck and has a radio he wants to install. > > > > I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker > > on the thing says: > > > > "Chevrolet; model 986669" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:33:15 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: GB> glowbug power suppliesI have a question regarding filament supply. Several years ago I built a supply to power a Heathkit 40 meter single bander SSB transceiver. I started with an HP-23 schematic and pretty much duplicated the circuit. It worked great and still does. Recently, I retired the single bander. I didn't trash it or sell it. I just quit using it. I needed a power supply for a recently acquired Drake T4X. I decided to use the homebrew HP-23 supply but I did not want to destroy the capability of using it with Heath equipment. So I decided to just add another cable for the Drake so that I could use it to power either Heath or Drake equipment. Yes, I know the HV from an HP-23 is higher than what is recommended for the Drake. In my case, the HV is just about right for Drake equipment and a little low for Heath equipment. As I was studying the cable connections, I noticed that there was a difference in the way the filament supply was connected. The Heathkits use two wires with neither being tied to ground. At least that is the case for the single banders. Neither side of the filament supply for the single banders is taken to ground. Not in the supply or in the single bander. The Drake equipment does ground one side of the filament supply, both in the radio and at the power supply. In fact that same ground is used as a return for the HV and the LV. Drake does use an additional ground but that pin seems reserved for the shields of ALC, AMP keying, and speaker output. I suppose the speaker output is for use with Drake transceivers. Now I can certainly install a switch to ground the filament in case I want to use the supply with the Drake or unground the filament in case I want to use the supply with the Heathkit. That is probably what I will do but it raises a question. Is the floating filament supply a design requirement for the Heathkit equipment? Does anyone have any experience with regard to grounding one side of the filament when using Heath equipment? I can understand that a floating filament supply might reduce hum. At least that is the common belief. I have seen filament power done both ways and I have built equipment using both floating and grounded filament supply lines. I have never seen any significant difference in performance except in audio equipment and in that case there were additional problems with ground loops. Regards, Frank KampDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:13:43 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> Old Car Radio Wow, You guys are simply awesome. 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:12:50 EST "Edward M Shawlis, Jr."writes: > The diagram can be found at > http://techpreservation.dyndns.org/schematics/ > From Ed Shawlis > > > > My bother-in-law is restoring on old pickup > > > truck and has a radio he wants to install. > > > > > > I have not seen the radio yet, but a sticker > > > on the thing says: > > > > > > "Chevrolet; model 986669" > > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:09:43 -0600 From: windy10605@juno.com Subject: Fw: RE: GB> Litz wireWhat size Litz wire are people looking for ? I have a large spool of the stuff with the solder meltable insulation (comes in real handy). I can make lengths of it available at reasonable prices plus 1st class postage. 73 Kees K5BCQ . --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Brad Hernlem"To: rjmattson@hvi.net Cc: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:17:50 +0000 Subject: RE: GB> Litz wire Message-ID: Now I don't know anything about this fellow's stuff but it is worth taking note that not all wire that is comprised of very fine strands of copper wire is "Litz". I have some fiber wrapped stuff that is made of bundles of very fine wire (and made by the same company as several products shown on this site - New England Wire) which matches the description of Litz except in one important property ... the individual fine wires are not insulated. Proper Litz, to have the greatest benefit at HF operation, should have each little wire insulated from the rest. Caveat Emptor. Also, do not take this as implying that the mentioned seller is misrepresenting his products. But it is worth asking these details, however, if you plan to buy and are looking for something other than simply super-flexible wire. Brad >From: "RJ Mattson" >To: >Subject: GB> Litz wire >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:46:13 -0500 > >Was someone looking for Litz wire? >http://www.schmarder.com/radios/sale/wire.htm >bob...w2ami _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:30:04 -0500 From: chantzSubject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor The knowledge of you folks is amazing! One point, re: steam turbines; I had read/heard that during the decades-long conversion from steam to diesel-electric, almost every iteration was seriously tried - including using diesel (instead of coal) as the fuel for both steam-piston and steam-turbine engines; steam-piston electrics, steam turbine-electrics, etc. Also, as noted, the need to MU (multiple-unit) locomotives with a small amount of staff was the main "driver" to diesel-electric - each steam loco in the MU needed at least one engineer. Another factor in the diesel-electric success was the need for transcontinental freight shipments in WWII; with vast desert stretches in which both operating personnel and station/water personnel were in short suppply. Engine-for-engine though, in single-unit operation the steam locomotives more than held its own regarding torque, total-cost-of-ownership etc. The relation to GB? It's always interesting to contemplate 'what if' some of the technology branches which were superceded by "better" technology and not fully explored (steam, tubes, etc.) could have gone forward - and I guess we glowbuggers are lucky enough to sometimes put these "by-pathed" advancements into practice! 73 Hy W2HYDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:38:03 -0500 From: chantzSubject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor ..re: sail -> steam..and while we're at it, in Derek Lundy's interesting book "The Way of a Ship" he notes that the age of steam actually EXTENDED the age of sail - because the old iron sailing ships found a vital, long-distance, non-time-critical bulk cargo in coal, which was needed for the far-flung coaling stations (e.g. Valpariso Chile) which the steamers frequented. (OK, lunch break over, now back to work..maybe even back to..gasp!..radio..)Hy W2HY Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:02:22 -0500 From: N2EY@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motorIn a message dated 3/18/2004 12:30:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, chantz@well.com writes: > One point, re: steam turbines; I had read/heard that during the > decades-long conversion from steam to diesel-electric, almost every > iteration was seriously tried - including using diesel (instead of coal) > as the fuel for both steam-piston and steam-turbine engines; > steam-piston electrics, steam turbine-electrics, etc. Actually, the conversion did not take very long - maybe a decade from diesels being a small part of the fleet to being the overwhelming majority. Some variations were tried: - Oil-fired steamers (used oil that was much cheaper and lower-grade than diesel) - Geardrive steam turbine (worked, but had a more-restricted range of economic operation) - Various forms of steam-electric drive - Gas turbine - electric drive (very complicated mechanicals) - Diesel hydraulic (popular in Europe, too maintenance-intensive for USA) > > Also, as noted, the need to MU (multiple-unit) locomotives with a small > amount of staff was the main "driver" to diesel-electric - each steam > loco in the MU needed at least one engineer. Labor cost reduction was one factor, but not the deciding one. > Another factor in the > diesel-electric success was the need for transcontinental freight > shipments in WWII; with vast desert stretches in which both operating > personnel and station/water personnel were in short suppply. A factor, but not the deciding one. And it wasn't just in deserts - consider this example: The New York Central's premium train, the 20th Century Limited, made the 961 miles from New York City to Chicago in 960 minutes - including tunnels, bridges, curves, station stops, speed restrictions, and engine changes. This wasn't an easy task - the train was pulled by electric locos from Grand Central to Harmon, by steam from Harmon to Cleveland, by electric through Cleveland and then by steam from Cleveland to Chicago. (The steamer ran around the Cleveland terminal and met the train on the other side of town). The Central used track pans (a maintenance headache but very dramatic in operation) to scoop water, enormous tenders carrying many tons of coal and the J-3A class streamlined, superheated roller-bearing locos. But even the Limited could not carry enough coal for the run, so a stop for coal had to be made at Wayneport, NY (east of Rochester) and again at Cleveland. Diesels could make the whole trip without refueling or taking water. > > Engine-for-engine though, in single-unit operation the steam > locomotives more than held its own regarding torque, > total-cost-of-ownership etc. Not when total costs were calculated. That's why diesels won out - they simply cost less for the work done when all factors were considered. Some very big steamers were built, though, and only now are single-unit diesels reaching the power levels of UP Big Boys, NYC Niagaras and similar designs. \ Early in the diesel era, the engine consist was referred to as "a locomotive" - such as "a 6000 HP four-unit Diesel locomotive" meaning four 1500 HP units coupled together and controlled from the lead unit. "B" units (with no cab) were common. There have been attempts to revive steam operation, but in almost all cases the economic considerations simply don't support it. The considerations mentioned already, plus property tax and ROI concerns, also put sever limits on rr electrification in the USA, which was growing by leaps and bounds before WW2. That's sad, because from a technical standpoint an electric railway is the cleanest and most efficient way to do the job. > > The relation to GB? It's always interesting to contemplate 'what if' > some of the technology branches which were superceded by "better" > technology and not fully explored (steam, tubes, etc.) could have gone > forward - and I guess we glowbuggers are lucky enough to > sometimes put > these "by-pathed" advancements into practice! > Agreed! -- One more factoid: The big motor that started this thread is rated at something like 108,000 HP in its largest size. That's about 80 MW (80 megawatts). I pulled one of my old EE textbooks off the shelf, and found steam-turbine-driven generator sets rated at over 1000 MW. (Of course they spin at 3600 RPM, not 102 RPM!) 73 de Jim, N2EYDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:19:50 -0600 From: windy10605@juno.com Subject: Fw: RE: GB> Litz wireWent to the web site Bob provided and the guy definitely knows his Litz wire. Good prices too. Let me give the sizes I have available out of the junkbox (don't want to sell the whole spool): 5/44 Litz with cloth covering, solderable insulation, $3.00 for 100 ft shipped in the USA 7/36 Litz, solderable insulation, $7.00 for 100 ft shipped in the USA #28 cloth covered old wire on a wooden spool $2.00 for 100ft shipped in the USA. It will be shipped in a loop, inside a padded envelope. 73 Kees K5BCQ --------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: "RJ Mattson">To: >Subject: GB> Litz wire >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:46:13 -0500 > >Was someone looking for Litz wire? >http://www.schmarder.com/radios/sale/wire.htm >bob...w2ami Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:53:39 -0600 From: "Michael N. Hopkins"Subject: GB> DeMaw's last VT hurrah? Doug DeMaw designed a tube transceiver as late as July, 1973, and it had feet in both eras. First, the QST 80M number used toroids in the pre-selector and a ubiquitous MFJ transistor CW filter. I've got five of those. But I sure don't have a direct conversion receiver using a 6GX6 driving a 12AT7. I'd use an octal, but down farther on the schematic I find another 12AT7 and a 6EA8 in a semi break-in and sidetone lifted from Heathkit and, most remarkably, a 6U8 VFO claimed to drift just 100 cycles from turn on. I've a Swan 250, Charlie, that ends up in another room. On transmit he's shown a 12BY7/6GK6 with a control to make the 10W even harder to hear. But the world's full of 807s and 1000 volt power supplies. So If you want a CW Transceiver without the moral baggage of commercial gear, view "An 80M Pebble Pulverizer," W1CER (later W1FB) and W1NPG, QST, July, 1973, page 16. Michael, ab5L, MNHopkins@JUNO.com Student of Tecraft, International Crystal, and 6 Meter's Golden Age: 1956-58.Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:36:49 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: Re: GB> glowbug power supplies On 18 Mar 2004 at 10:33, fkamp@comcast.net wrote: > As I was studying the cable connections, I noticed that there was a > difference in the way the filament supply was connected. The > Heathkits use two wires with neither being tied to ground. At least > that is the case for the single banders. Neither side of the filament > supply for the single banders is taken to ground. Not in the supply > or in the single bander. This was because the single-banders and the other transceivers were also used as mobiles with the filaments run directly from the 12 VDC battery. I have forgotten the details, but am sure this is the case. Ken W7EKBDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:57:31 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: GB> Really terrible story... Reward offered A reward of 500 microfarads is offered for information leading to the arrest of Hop-a-long Capacity. This un-rectified criminal escaped from a Weston primary cell where he had been clamped in ions awaiting the gauss chamber. He is charged with the induction of an 18 turn coil named Milli Henry who was found choked and robbed of valuable joules. He is armed with a carbon rod and is a potential killer. Capacity is also charged with driving a dc motor over a wheatstone bridge and refusing to let the band- pass. If encountered, he may offer series resistance. The electromotive force spent the night searching for him in a magnetic field, where he had gone to earth. They had no success and believed he had returned ohm via a short circuit. He was last seen riding a kilocycle with his friend Eddy Current who was playing a harmonic. Ken W7EKBDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:11:57 -0600 From: "Freeberg, Scott (STP)"Subject: RE: GB> Really terrible story... I Love it!!!! Great story Ken, I love it!!!! 73, Scott WA9WFADate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:31:47 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor > One more factoid: > > The big motor that started this thread is rated at something like 108,000 HP in its largest size. That's about 80 MW (80 megawatts). I pulled one of my old EE textbooks off the shelf, and found steam-turbine-driven generator sets rated at over 1000 MW. (Of course they spin at 3600 RPM, not 102 RPM!) > > 73 de Jim, N2EY> I wonder about the difference in torque? What is that simple equation that finds torque in lbs./ft if you know horsepower and RPM? I remember the constant 5252, IIRC, but I lost the equation somewhere upstairs (between my ears). It's no more complicated than ohms law, if memory serves. I mean, back when memory served HI. Would the fins of the turbine act as a torque multiplier kind of like the way a torque-convertor in an automatic transmission does? Something I thought was pretty cool was when Mack had some experimental cab-over gas-turbine tractors in the early 80's. The vertical exhaust pipe seemed like it was about a foot in diameter. A buddy of mine, Dennis Boswinkle, was test-driving one in downtown Macungie (sp?), PA, and had pulled out into an intersection to make a left turn. After the oncoming traffic had cleared, he romped down on the accelerator...and melted the lenses of the traffic signal that was hanging over the intersection! The world is so full of a number of things. 73, TomDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:36:33 -0000 From: "Barry Kirkwood"Subject: Re: GB> DeMaw's last VT hurrah? That rig always intrigued me, too. Anybody built/used it? The 6GX6 should go well in a direct conversion rx. 73 Barry end Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD Signal Hill Homestay 66 Cory Road Palm Beach Waiheke Island 1240 NEW ZEALAND ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael N. Hopkins"To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: GB> DeMaw's last VT hurrah? > > Doug DeMaw designed a tube transceiver as late as July, 1973, and it had > feet in both eras. > > First, the QST 80M number used toroids in the pre-selector and a > ubiquitous MFJ transistor CW filter. I've got five of those. > > But I sure don't have a direct conversion receiver using a 6GX6 driving a > 12AT7. I'd use an octal, but down farther on the schematic I find > another 12AT7 and a 6EA8 in a semi break-in and sidetone lifted from > Heathkit and, most remarkably, a 6U8 VFO claimed to drift just 100 cycles > from turn on. I've a Swan 250, Charlie, that ends up in another room. > > On transmit he's shown a 12BY7/6GK6 with a control to make the 10W even > harder to hear. > > But the world's full of 807s and 1000 volt power supplies. So If you > want a CW Transceiver without the moral baggage of commercial gear, view > "An 80M Pebble Pulverizer," W1CER (later W1FB) and W1NPG, QST, July, > 1973, page 16. > > Michael, ab5L, MNHopkins@JUNO.com Student of Tecraft, International > Crystal, and 6 Meter's Golden Age: 1956-58. > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:47:20 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: GB> How to Boot a Steam Engine... With all this "train chatter" I want to share what I consider one of the most compelling little bits of writing I've seen on the 'net. It's called "How to Boot a Steam Locomotive, or How to Hostle Without Really Trying". It's a description of what one goes through when faced with a cold, empty steam locomotive that needs to be up and moving in a few hours. I got tired just reading the thing! See: http://www.sdrm.org/faqs/hostling.html Ron AC7ACDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:04:47 -0600 From: mikeaSubject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 02:31:47PM -0600, Tom NØJMY - AAR7FV wrote: > Something I thought was pretty cool was when Mack had some experimental > cab-over gas-turbine tractors in the early 80's. The vertical exhaust pipe > seemed like it was about a foot in diameter. A buddy of mine, Dennis > Boswinkle, was test-driving one in downtown Macungie (sp?), PA, and had > pulled out into an intersection to make a left turn. After the oncoming > traffic had cleared, he romped down on the accelerator...and melted the > lenses of the traffic signal that was hanging over the intersection! The > world is so full of a number of things. There is a similar story -- possibly urban legend -- about a VW caught behind an Abrams tank on some Army post or other. When the tank driver opened the throttle to start up at a stop sign, the VW's turn signals melted, or the paint scorched, or the headlight lenses cracked, or some combination. OTOH, having worked near turbine-powered jet-engine starters, I can attest that they move A Lot Of Air per unit time, and that the exhaust is Damn Hot. Ditto for the exhaust of F-4 Phantoms and Republic F-105 Lead Sleds. GB content: The VW was a Beetle, supposedly. -- Mike Andrews mikea@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadminDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:25:52 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: Re: GB> glowbug power suppliesStuart Rohre wrote: > Frank > Actually, if the filament wires are twisted pair as they should be the > floating supply for filaments is the preferred way to wire things. Keeps > the filament out of sharing ground with RF ground path. Yes, that is the way I do it too. Then ground the centertap of the filament transformer. That is just about the best you can do to eliminate ground loops and hum when runing AC on the filaments. However, I don't understand why polarity would make a difference when running DC. Negative ground/positive ground, what difference does that make to the filament? After all it puts up with AC which changes polarity every cycle. Regards, Frank KampDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:41:37 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> OT: Big motor When I worked at Lockheed Aircraft Service in the late 1950's, we had a lot of F-86D fighters on the flight line being overhauled in preparation for sale to foreign governments. Part of the regular work most shifts included running up the engines and lighting-off the afterburners with the planes facing tail-outward toward blast deflectors. At "lunch" time they'd all be shut down for half an hour. Being cold out on the line often, those hot afterburners were a welcome addition. But, finally, the company had to step in with signs near the blast deflectors: "No Roasting Hot Dogs or Other Items In the Jet Tailpipes". We didn't do it while they were running, of course, but those tailpipes stayed very hot for some time after shut-down. Besides, who wanted a hot dog that tasted like jet fuel? GB content: Hey, it WAS the '50s! The age of the vacuum tube! Transistors? Yeah, they'll find some limited use in audio circuits where low power consumption and small size are more important than performance, according to the electronics pundits of the day... Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- OTOH, having worked near turbine-powered jet-engine starters, I can attest that they move A Lot Of Air per unit time, and that the exhaust is Damn Hot. Ditto for the exhaust of F-4 Phantoms and Republic F-105 Lead Sleds. GB content: The VW was a Beetle, supposedly. -- Mike Andrews mikea@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadminDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:55:30 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom_N=D8JMY_-_AAR7FV?=Subject: Re: GB> Really terrible story... Bravo! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"To: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: GB> Really terrible story... > Reward offered > > A reward of 500 microfarads is offered for > information leading to the arrest of Hop-a-long > Capacity. This un-rectified criminal escaped > from a Weston primary cell where he had been > clamped in ions awaiting the gauss chamber. > > He is charged with the induction of an 18 turn coil > named Milli Henry who was found choked and > robbed of valuable joules. He is armed with a carbon > rod and is a potential killer. > > Capacity is also charged with driving a dc motor over > a wheatstone bridge and refusing to let the band- > pass. If encountered, he may offer series resistance. > > The electromotive force spent the night searching for > him in a magnetic field, where he had gone to earth. > They had no success and believed he had returned > ohm via a short circuit. > > He was last seen riding a kilocycle with his friend > Eddy Current who was playing a harmonic. > > > Ken W7EKB > > > > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:03:07 -0500 From: "Mike Silva"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor My dad worked for the phone co. in Calif. and he was there one time when they fired up their new turbine emergency generator. The exhaust was vented out into an alley and it roasted the top of an illegally-parked delivery van... 73, Mike, KK6GM ----- Original Message ----- From: "mikea"To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:04 PM Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor > On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 02:31:47PM -0600, Tom NØJMY - AAR7FV wrote: > > > Something I thought was pretty cool was when Mack had some experimental > > cab-over gas-turbine tractors in the early 80's. The vertical exhaust pipe > > seemed like it was about a foot in diameter. A buddy of mine, Dennis > > Boswinkle, was test-driving one in downtown Macungie (sp?), PA, and had > > pulled out into an intersection to make a left turn. After the oncoming > > traffic had cleared, he romped down on the accelerator...and melted the > > lenses of the traffic signal that was hanging over the intersection! The > > world is so full of a number of things. > > There is a similar story -- possibly urban legend -- about a VW caught > behind an Abrams tank on some Army post or other. When the tank driver > opened the throttle to start up at a stop sign, the VW's turn signals > melted, or the paint scorched, or the headlight lenses cracked, or > some combination. > > OTOH, having worked near turbine-powered jet-engine starters, I can > attest that they move A Lot Of Air per unit time, and that the exhaust > is Damn Hot. Ditto for the exhaust of F-4 Phantoms and Republic > F-105 Lead Sleds. > > GB content: The VW was a Beetle, supposedly. > > -- > Mike Andrews > mikea@mikea.ath.cx > Tired old sysadmin > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:06:53 -0600 From: dzabcik@texas.net Subject: Re: GB> Really terrible story...He volted, eh? I should have known no cell could hold him...hope they can stop him before he kilos again! 73, Dan, WB5YUZ "Kenneth G. Gordon" wrote: > > Reward offered > > A reward of 500 microfarads is offered for > information leading to the arrest of Hop-a-long > Capacity. This un-rectified criminal escaped > from a Weston primary cell where he had been > clamped in ions awaiting the gauss chamber. > > He is charged with the induction of an 18 turn coil > named Milli Henry who was found choked and > robbed of valuable joules. He is armed with a carbon > rod and is a potential killer. > > Capacity is also charged with driving a dc motor over > a wheatstone bridge and refusing to let the band- > pass. If encountered, he may offer series resistance. > > The electromotive force spent the night searching for > him in a magnetic field, where he had gone to earth. > They had no success and believed he had returned > ohm via a short circuit. > > He was last seen riding a kilocycle with his friend > Eddy Current who was playing a harmonic. > > > Ken W7EKBDate: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:18:18 -0000 From: "Barry Kirkwood"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor Now that would be a sign truly worth souveniering! 7Barry3 end Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD Signal Hill Homestay 66 Cory Road Palm Beach Waiheke Island 1240 NEW ZEALAND ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:41 PM Subject: RE: GB> OT: Big motor > When I worked at Lockheed Aircraft Service in the late 1950's, we had a lot > of F-86D fighters on the flight line being overhauled in preparation for > sale to foreign governments. > > Part of the regular work most shifts included running up the engines and > lighting-off the afterburners with the planes facing tail-outward toward > blast deflectors. > > At "lunch" time they'd all be shut down for half an hour. Being cold out on > the line often, those hot afterburners were a welcome addition. > > But, finally, the company had to step in with signs near the blast > deflectors: "No Roasting Hot Dogs or Other Items In the Jet Tailpipes". > > We didn't do it while they were running, of course, but those tailpipes > stayed very hot for some time after shut-down. Besides, who wanted a hot dog > that tasted like jet fuel? > > GB content: Hey, it WAS the '50s! The age of the vacuum tube! Transistors? > Yeah, they'll find some limited use in audio circuits where low power > consumption and small size are more important than performance, according to > the electronics pundits of the day... > > Ron AC7AC > > -----Original Message----- > OTOH, having worked near turbine-powered jet-engine starters, I can > attest that they move A Lot Of Air per unit time, and that the exhaust is > Damn Hot. Ditto for the exhaust of F-4 Phantoms and Republic > F-105 Lead Sleds. > > GB content: The VW was a Beetle, supposedly. > > -- > Mike Andrews > mikea@mikea.ath.cx > Tired old sysadmin > > > > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:46:02 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> Really terrible story... Oh, I.C.. That's tube add. Actually, he was discharged. The police said one element of the alleged crime was a charge of battery but they failed to connect him to anything. It all started as a child when his father scolded him. "Son, I overheard you and your friend talking about running a dipole megacycle! Well, you can just walk to school like I did." They now suspect he's been staying with his Aunt Enna. But there have also been reports of him working nights at the freight depot as a semi conductor. Sorry, I know that really Hertz. 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:06:53 -0600 dzabcik@texas.net writes: > He volted, eh? I should have known no cell could hold him...hope > they > can stop him before he kilos again! > > 73, Dan, WB5YUZ > > "Kenneth G. Gordon" wrote: > > > > Reward offered > > > > A reward of 500 microfarads is offered for > > information leading to the arrest of Hop-a-long > > Capacity. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:11:00 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> Really terrible story... Oh, and Eddy Current? Just got too amped up on Orange Drops. He's now checked into a re-cap center. Thank goodness he swore off Black Beauties long ago. But they did let him keep his harmonic. He just sits around all day playing Ohm On The Range. Don't touch that dial..... ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:29:36 EST From: Wd4nka@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> DeMaw's last VT hurrah?--part1_5b.49fdf0ce.2d8b98f0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/18/2004 3:39:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, bjk@ihug.co.nz writes: > That rig always intrigued me, too. > Anybody built/used it? > The 6GX6 should go well in a direct conversion rx. > 73 > Barry > ***** I was always a little skeptical about tube DC rigs. Termans mentions direct conversion of HF signals as being one of the more viable modes of detection, but with the 100dB + audio gain needed, i would imagine the PS being a major source of problems. Perhaps a couple stages of RF to bring up the sig so that the audio stage doesn't have to do it all. Has anyone here messed with tube DC rigs? Are they anything like the solid state versions? gary // wd4nka Visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ --part1_5b.49fdf0ce.2d8b98f0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/18/2004 3:39:33= PM Eastern Standard Time, bjk@ihug.co.nz writes:
That rig always intrigued m= e, too.
Anybody built/used it?
The 6GX6 should go well in a direct conversion rx.
73
Barry
***** I was always a little skeptical about tube DC rigs.
Termans mentions direct conversion of HF signals as
being one of the more viable modes of detection, but
with the 100dB + audio gain needed, i would imagine
the PS being a major source of problems. Perhaps
a couple stages of RF to bring up the sig so that the audio
stage doesn't have to do it all.
Has anyone here messed with tube DC rigs? Are they
anything like the solid state versions?=20
gary // wd4nka
Visit my site at: http://www.qsl.= net/wd4nka/ --part1_5b.49fdf0ce.2d8b98f0_boundary--Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:52:59 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> DeMaw's last VT hurrah? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_5c93.5bd0.17cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Prof. Arnie should know. Their Islander rigs are tube DC receivers. 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:29:36 EST Wd4nka@aol.com writes: In a message dated 3/18/2004 3:39:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, bjk@ihug.co.nz writes: That rig always intrigued me, too. Anybody built/used it? The 6GX6 should go well in a direct conversion rx. 73 Barry ***** I was always a little skeptical about tube DC rigs. Termans mentions direct conversion of HF signals as being one of the more viable modes of detection, but with the 100dB + audio gain needed, i would imagine the PS being a major source of problems. Perhaps a couple stages of RF to bring up the sig so that the audio stage doesn't have to do it all. Has anyone here messed with tube DC rigs? Are they anything like the solid state versions? gary // wd4nka Visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ ----__JNP_000_5c93.5bd0.17cb Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableProf. Arnie should know. Their Islander rigs are tube DC=20 receivers.
73.......Steve Smith=20 WB6TNL
Oxnard,=20 CA =20 USA = =20
"Snort=20 Rosin"
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:29:36 EST Wd4nka@aol.com writes:----__JNP_000_5c93.5bd0.17cb-- ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!In a message dated 3/18/2004 3:39:33 PM = Eastern=20 Standard Time, bjk@ihug.co.nz writes:That rig always intrigued me, too.
Anybody built/used = it?=20
The 6GX6 should go well in a direct conversion rx.
73
Barry= =20
***** I was always a little skeptical about tube= DC=20 rigs.
Termans mentions direct conversion of HF signals as
being = one of=20 the more viable modes of detection, but
with the 100dB + audio = gain=20 needed, i would imagine
the PS being a major source of problems.=20 Perhaps
a couple stages of RF to bring up the sig = so=20 that the audio
stage doesn't have to do it all.
Has = anyone=20 here messed with tube DC rigs? Are they
anything like the solid= =20 state versions?
gary // wd4nka
Visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/= =20Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:17:38 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> DeMaw's last VT hurrah? Yes, I have, a bit. Can anyone spell MICROPHONIC?. Actually, one I tried it twice, both times using a frequency converter tube as both oscillator and mixer. One was much better than the other. The first time was using a octal-base conventional frequency converter stage many years ago. I no longer have the notes but it was a common frequency converter in the 50's, probably a 12SA7. Apparently the movement of the grid produces phase/frequency as well as amplitude modulation that all shows up in the audio. And, as you said, >100 dB of amplification makes little sounds LOUD! Now, just for fun when I was tinkering with the one-stage 12AD6 "frequency converter" for the Simple Superhet, I put a audio transformer in the plate and tried it as a "direct conversion" detector feeding a >100 dB audio amp. The 12AD6 is one of the "space charge" tubes designed for 12 volts on the plate in auto radio service. It was surprisingly quiet, compared to my experience some years ago. I wondered if that could be a result of sturdier construction perhaps inherent in the miniature tube design, or perhaps the tubes specifically designed for auto radio service were more rugged and vibration-resistant. But I've not pursued it further yet. Ron AC7AC Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:09:35 -0600 From: "whoag"Subject: RE: GB> Litz wire I suspect that most members of this group are aware of the following but I haven’t seen it mentioned before. Remember that litz wire combinations are frequency specific, i.e., they only provide their unique advantages over a small range of frequencies. Somewhere around here I have a frequency chart for this and I know that there are a couple out on the web but I can’t find either at the moment. Lacking all else, check out the Xtal Set Society’s web page. I haven’t checked in for a while but there is almost always a thread going on the subject (almost always for BCB frequencies however). Will, WA5OLT --------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilson Hoag whoag@flash.net 1704 Venetian Circle Arlington, TX + 1 817 277-9874 76013-3306Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:34:41 -0600 From: "Sandy W5TVW"Subject: Re: GB> Really terrible story... Did anyone ever hear the "blue" story about Milli Amp and Henry? They were having a torrid affair! 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Smith"To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: Re: GB> Really terrible story... | Oh, I.C.. That's tube add. | | Actually, he was discharged. The police said one element of the alleged | crime was a charge of battery but they failed to connect him to anything. | | | It all started as a child when his father scolded him. "Son, I overheard | you and your friend talking about running a dipole megacycle! Well, you | can just walk to school like I did." | | They now suspect he's been staying with his Aunt Enna. But there have | also been reports of him working nights at the freight depot as a semi | conductor. | | Sorry, I know that really Hertz. | | 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL | Oxnard, CA USA | "Snort Rosin" | | | On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:06:53 -0600 dzabcik@texas.net writes: | | > He volted, eh? I should have known no cell could hold him...hope | > they | > can stop him before he kilos again! | > | > 73, Dan, WB5YUZ | > | > "Kenneth G. Gordon" wrote: | > > | > > Reward offered | > > | > > A reward of 500 microfarads is offered for | > > information leading to the arrest of Hop-a-long | > > Capacity. | | ________________________________________________________________ | The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! | Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! | Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! | | Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:31 -0500 From: Brad ThompsonSubject: RE: GB> crt tube story At 03:26 PM 3/17/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Sounds like these weren't ordinary "picture tubes". > >Probably "carrot ray" instead of "cathode ray"... > >Ron AC7AC > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu >[mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of luc dugas >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:31 PM >To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu; armyradios@yahoogroups.com; Old Tube >Radios >Subject: GB> crt tube story > > >one day a shortwave listener phoned to a friend of mine clem ve2bia to buy >some tubes. he told clem he was saving television screen tube too. he was >dismantling them to save the electrode (cannon). then he was putting the >electrodes in a strong acid like chloridric or sulfuric acid. the next day >he was adding 45 gallons of water to the solution and he was using that mix >to water the vegetables in the garden with outstanding results. biggest >vegetables ever seen. how about that. luc ve2lgj 73s Hello-- Interesting! I wonder whether dissolving the screen phosphors in acid would produce a fertilizer once the acid was neutralized? Or perhaps the garden soil was extremely alkaline? 73-- Brad AA1IP P.S.: didn't Al Kaline play for the Detroit Tigers... or was it the Eveready Coppertops????Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:09:07 -0500 From:Subject: GB> DC vs. Regen comments. I recall the big fuss the '70s and '80s handbooks or magazines made about how cranky and unreliable the regen detector were, and how the darling of simple receivers should be the direct conversion types. Then i would read the articles and hear all the glowing reports, and then, the projects began to get more and more involved until pretty soon you had a major challenge building that doubly balanced 3n211 mixer with the bifilar wound toroids, building that 2 transistor cascode RF amp, winding up the 3 ganged butterworth, making that 741 op amp active filter, setting up the audio derived agc, and then plopping in the LM386. Ahh, now you have a simple receiver that has ears, stabiltiy, decent passband, and stable audio. And it cost you a tad bit more than you expected when you started out. And in spite of it all, if you didn't have that linear taper, if you bfo inductor wasn't good quality, if you didn't have temperature stability, you drifted about as much as even the simplest 2 element dc rigs. And your bfo was just as good at radiating as a regen, so you had to make provision for that, too. Oh, the DC was a good rig, but look what you needed to do to be acceptable by the folks that published the magazines. . . in most cases. 73 was a noteable exception. The 1980 "Understanding Amateur Radio" 80m passive diode detector 80m receiver was really not all that sensitive. The Tuna Tin 40m dc receiver was more complex to make, and finikky than any tube simple super **I** ever made, anyway. Finally, after about 2 years of chasing DC rigs all over a pc board, i went back to regens and never went back. There was one thing i really liked about the DC rigs: Except for front end overload from a loud broadcaster like VOA or now WHR, saturating the front ends, it was really hard to overload them. No grid blocking those things. The outside world had very little effect of the mixer frequency, so they were quite stable, so long as you did a good job with the bfo. But broad as a barn door, microphonic, and sonic city! I had to address more foibles with the dc than the regens. Thought most pervasive when messing with the DC rigs: " hmm . . . regen wouldn't need that." I wonder now if having a regen detector operating near threshold, but not TOO near, and a bfo to inject it might not make a tolerable tube DC rig, and with a front end and the gain developed at the detector, might not need so much audio amping? Just a thot. gary // wd4nka ReformSchool Music LTD ( very limited. ) ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Caveat: don't hold anything written above as absolutely factual unless you know it to be so, or have done your own homework. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:08:01 -0500 From: "Bill Henderson"Subject: Re: GB> Really terrible story... Steve Smithwrites: >Oh, and Eddy Current? Just got too amped up on Orange Drops. He's now >checked into a re-cap center. Thank goodness he swore off Black Beauties >long ago. But they did let him keep his harmonic. He just sits around >all day playing Ohm On The Range. Give me an ohm Where the frequencies roam and the amps and inductances play Where never you meet with an audio beat and we're radio students all day Can't remember where this is originally from.... but i would properly credit it if I could. - Bill H. Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:00:51 -0500 From:Subject: Re: GB> Really terrible story... I Love it!!!! Ken, great stuff ! gary // wd4nka ReformSchool Music LTD ( very limited. ) ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Caveat: don't hold anything written above as absolutely factual unless you know it to be so, or have done your own homework. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:38:35 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: GB> receiver comparison DC vs RegenI have to agree with Gary's excellent comparison. You just can't beat a regen if you need a minimum parts count radio. Regards, Frank KampDate: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:19:36 -0600 From: dzabcik@texas.net Subject: Re: GB> receiver comparison DC vs Regenfkamp@comcast.net wrote: > > I have to agree with Gary's excellent comparison. > > You just can't beat a regen if you need a minimum parts count radio. > > Regards, > Frank Kamp I read Gary's commentary (as I read most things he writes) with interest. I am starting to develop a theory of my own. It has two interrelated aspects. One is that there can be no doubt that, for whatever reason, the rise of solid state circuits has coincided with a great decline in homebrewing. I think this has to do with rush to embrace miniaturization and the appeal of using the very newest devices and techniques in our simple equipment. This does, no doubt, provide training for technicians to work on the latest electronic equipment. At the same time, however, no one can question that the industry, by and large, has pretty much abandoned the "repair and re-use" mentality for the "replace and toss" mode and the need for large numbers of repair technicians for this technology has never emerged. So, in this respect, the rush to embrace miniaturization has not had the desired result. Meanwhile, the use of surface-mount technology and ever smaller components has resulted in an absurd situation. I visited the home of a prominent homebrewer the other night. He is a very vocal advocate of the need for homebrewers to embrace the newest construction techniques and the attendant components that are designed for robots, not people, to handle. He feels that homebrewers will otherwise lose relevance. Now, his eyesight is average; he needs glassed to read, but can get around without them. He has a stereoscopic microscope to facilitate his work with tiny components and surface mount boards. It cost him several hundred dollars. He doesn't use it, however, because he's since discovered a video magnifier, such as the vision-impaired use to read. It cost him two thousand dollars! But, even he will admit it's the only way he can satisfactorily see what he's doing. This being the internet, I am sure there are those reading this who will reply: "That's a myth. Anyone can work with surface mount components using simple equipment." I know. I've done it myself, several times. But this does not change the simple fact that it is easier for human beings to work with large components where mounting is not so critical than it is with the tiny parts and close tolerances of current technology that has, after all, been developed with the assumption that robots will be the end users. The other aspect of this theory is that the vacuum tube saw forty years of circuit development, a great deal of it directed at the HF spectrum and home construction. The transistor didn't begin to dominate home construction until the 'seventies; and by the early nineties, almost all commercial research and development was aimed at digital information technology rather than radio communications. Since homebrewing has declined so much, there is little experimentation (outside a small but dedicated segment of the amateur radio community) aimed at allowing home duplication using modern circuits and devices, and almost none done by the industry itself. Compare this to the effort Thordarson, RCA, and others expended over forty years to develop and improve such easily duplicated circuits as the regen and the two-tube xtal oscillator mopa! I have no doubt there are plenty of satisfactory designs out there for solid state homebrew equipment; I read QST and I own "QRP Classics." But, if I want to duplicate circuits in my home using simple equipment, it is much easier for me to find and adapt tube-type designs, simply because there is so much more good information available for them than there is for solid-state projects, and the circuits and construction techiques are much better suited to home duplication. 73, Dan, WB5YUZDate: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:33:13 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> DC vs. Regen comments. Excellent observations, Gary. The DC design really did have a tremendous advantage: it could be made very hard to overload! At least a good one based on diode-ring detectors and the like. As you said, some of the active-device designs became really complicated. But, let's face it, a DC receiver is simply a "superhet" with the I.F. at zero kc/s. The "I.F" filtering is therefore at audio. The disadvantage is that if you want "single signal" reception (that is, hear only ONE side of "zero beat") you have to do it with phasing techniques because the two sidebands are folded back on each other with the "carrier" frequency at zero kc/s. The advantage is that you don't need a 'second detector' since the RF at the signal frequency is converted "direct" to audio. Other than the need for employing a phasing system to remove the "other" sideband, the design issues with a direct-conversion receiver are much the same as any superhet. It's a whole different set of design issues compared to a regen, or any TRF design, where virtually ALL the selectivity happens at the signal frequency. One of the things I'd like to try is using a conventional mixer (like the 12AD6 or 12SA7) at the input to a DC receiver is to add regeneration to improve the gain and input circuit Q. That wouldn't be to provide the ultimate selectivity, but to improve the 'front end' selectivity to better reject strong off-frequency signals like the broadcasters on 40 meters. Just like the old "regenerative" preselectors of years ago, the regeneration would never be run high enough to make the stage oscillate. The local oscillator injection would always provide the heterodyne signal. The regeneration would be and always kept sub-critical to improve the input circuit selectivity and overall mixer gain. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of reformschool@juno.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 6:09 AM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: GB> DC vs. Regen comments. I recall the big fuss the '70s and '80s handbooks or magazines made about how cranky and unreliable the regen detector were, and how the darling of simple receivers should be the direct conversion types. Then i would read the articles and hear all the glowing reports, and then, the projects began to get more and more involved until pretty soon you had a major challenge building that doubly balanced 3n211 mixer with the bifilar wound toroids, building that 2 transistor cascode RF amp, winding up the 3 ganged butterworth, making that 741 op amp active filter, setting up the audio derived agc, and then plopping in the LM386. Ahh, now you have a simple receiver that has ears, stabiltiy, decent passband, and stable audio. And it cost you a tad bit more than you expected when you started out. And in spite of it all, if you didn't have that linear taper, if you bfo inductor wasn't good quality, if you didn't have temperature stability, you drifted about as much as even the simplest 2 element dc rigs. And your bfo was just as good at radiating as a regen, so you had to make provision for that, too. Oh, the DC was a good rig, but look what you needed to do to be acceptable by the folks that published the magazines. . . in most cases. 73 was a noteable exception. The 1980 "Understanding Amateur Radio" 80m passive diode detector 80m receiver was really not all that sensitive. The Tuna Tin 40m dc receiver was more complex to make, and finikky than any tube simple super **I** ever made, anyway. Finally, after about 2 years of chasing DC rigs all over a pc board, i went back to regens and never went back. There was one thing i really liked about the DC rigs: Except for front end overload from a loud broadcaster like VOA or now WHR, saturating the front ends, it was really hard to overload them. No grid blocking those things. The outside world had very little effect of the mixer frequency, so they were quite stable, so long as you did a good job with the bfo. But broad as a barn door, microphonic, and sonic city! I had to address more foibles with the dc than the regens. Thought most pervasive when messing with the DC rigs: " hmm . . . regen wouldn't need that." I wonder now if having a regen detector operating near threshold, but not TOO near, and a bfo to inject it might not make a tolerable tube DC rig, and with a front end and the gain developed at the detector, might not need so much audio amping? Just a thot. gary // wd4nka ReformSchool Music LTD ( very limited. ) ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Caveat: don't hold anything written above as absolutely factual unless you know it to be so, or have done your own homework. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:27:38 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: GB> RegenerodyneAs part of the grand liquidation of too much stuff to take to Hawaii I pulled the National HFS off the shelf today. Want to make it play prior to putting on ebay and pronted out a copy of the schematic from BAMA. Had never looked at this before. It never made it off the 'tuit shelf. It's a pretty neat circuit: Plug in antenna coil to 6AK5 first detector. Plug in osc coil for the 9002 LO. 10.7Mc IF transformer 6SG7 IF amp Regenerative 6SK7 2nd detector with regeration controlled by the plate voltage! Have not seen this discussed on GB, may have just missed it though. Especially cool is a 6J5 buffer with switch so the IF may be routed out through a coaxial connector on the back for use with an alternative detector. So, if you want FM, the 10.7 Mc buffered output is there! Audio from 2nd detector > 6J5 > 6V6. OK, now I'm ready to make it go... -bobDate: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:43:22 -0800 From: "Davies, Doug A FOR:EX"Subject: GB> DX-40 Knobs Needed I am in need of one of the large tuning knobs and one of the smaller grey knobs from the front panel of a DX-40 transmitter. Anyone have such things? Doug VA7DDDate: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:09:33 EST From: Wd4nka@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> Regenerodyne--part1_134.2c999e93.2d8cad7d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/19/04 12:38:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, ah7i@atl.org writes: > As part of the grand liquidation of too much stuff to take to Hawaii > I pulled the National HFS off the shelf today. ***** Oh gosh, i hadn't heard of the HFS in a long time. Wasn't that the "second generation" NC 1-10 more or less ? I remember them having that recessed HRO dial. Cool as grits. The one i saw last was from 1946, so i got the impression it was a post-war NC 1-10. ( The NC 1-10 actually had, i think, more in common with the SW-3, as a combination regen-superregen instead of being a superhet like the HFS) Is it in fact a regenerodyne, where the detector is the tuner? Or is it LO tuned as a conventional superhet? It sounds like the first conversion stage is 10.7mc. Sounds like it is amped and then fed to the detector at that frequency. That's very interesting, because it kinda cuts against the "very low" IF frequencies commonly used. But that would make it a double conversion rig to do that, and at VHF, to keep the front end from going bezerk, you would either HAVE to keep a high IF on the order of 9 - 10mc, or do that second conversion. Which might have been beyond the design goals of the HFS. Sounds like a keeper! gary // wd4nka visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_134.2c999e93.2d8cad7d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message=20= dated 3/19/04 12:38:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, ah7i@atl.org writes:
As part of the grand liquid= ation of too much stuff to take to Hawaii
I pulled the National HFS off the shelf today.
***** Oh gosh, i hadn't heard of the HFS in a long time. Wasn't th= at
the "second generation" NC 1-10 more or less ? I remember th= em
having that recessed HRO dial. Cool as grits. The one i saw=20= last
was from 1946, so i got the impression it was a post-war NC 1-10.
( The NC 1-10 actually had, i think, more in common with the SW-3,
as a combination regen-superregen instead of being a superhet like=20
the HFS)
Is it in fact a regenerodyne, where the detector is the tuner? Or
is it LO tuned as a conventional superhet? It sounds like the
first conversion stage is 10.7mc. Sounds like it is amped and
then fed to the detector at that frequency. That's very interestin= g,
because it kinda cuts against the "very low" IF frequencies commonly
used. But that would make it a double conversion rig to do that,
and at VHF, to keep the front end from going bezerk, you would=20
either HAVE to keep a high IF on the order of 9 - 10mc, or do
that second conversion. Which might have been beyond the
design goals of the HFS.
Sounds like a keeper!
gary // wd4nka
visit my site at:
http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_134.2c999e93.2d8cad7d_boundary--Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:31:23 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: Re: GB> RegenerodyneOn Fri, 19 Mar 2004 Wd4nka@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/19/04 12:38:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, ah7i@atl.org > writes: > > > > As part of the grand liquidation of too much stuff to take to Hawaii > > I pulled the National HFS off the shelf today. > > Is it in fact a regenerodyne, where the detector is the tuner? Or > is it LO tuned as a conventional superhet? It sounds like the It's conversion to 10.7 and then regen detector at 10.7. Yes, very attractive. Grey PW dial and cabinet. Grey doghouse supply. But not particularly sensitive. I do like the 10.7 buffered output in case you want to route IF though another detector or maybe receiver tuned to 10.7 -BobDate: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:53:17 EST From: Wd4nka@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> receiver comparison DC vs Regen--part1_146.24bd475c.2d8cb7bd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just thinking, there was one DC set-up that might translate to v/t mode in that the primary detectors are diodes. This would not even be necessarily a hybrid, unless one considers any use of silicone/ germanium diode detection a hybrid, which would leave out a considerable number of tube type receivers from the '60s. >From time to time in CQ and QST, a fella named Bozidar Pasaric, YU2HL came up with cool eastern eu. dc designs that would remind me that these guys definately play outside the sandbox ( think outside the box ). One such article appeared in the CQ ish for 6/83, "Build Your Own Direct Conversion Receiver". YU2HL already had a decade of very techy articles published in QST by this time, mostly doubly balanced mosfet mixers, etc. all with the common goal of reducing the front end saturation from the local stations which, from what i read, was horrid. This was eastern eu. during the cold war. HF was a nightmare there, i guess. In this article, a very simple antiparallel diode arrangement was used, incorporating matched silicone diodes with an 0.5v avalanche, or germanium (1.0 breakdown). I might have proffered this topic before on this list, i forgot. If i have, pse bear with. In this setup, the diodes are fed with the LO signal. Each half of the sine would pop open ( make to conduct )one or the other diode. This made the diodes act as a doubling "switch". These were in turn coupled to the antenna. The only signals that could pass were those that matched the frequency at which the diode pair were switching. The diode arrangement cancels any AM detection ( when used as a DC receiver, that is ), and what you have is the pure result of mixing. The brainchild behind this mixer was V. Polyakov, RA3AAE. I call it a "Polyakov mixer". I have never seen another article involving this scheme. It was most effective in the eastern bloc countries from what i heard. But we in the west, well . . . i think sometimes there is a bit of stuffery sometimes that keeps these simple things at a rather low profile. The polyakov mixer finds a home these days at mirowave, i believe. This is why when you overseas folks come up with a way you traditionally meet challenges, we here at WD4NKA are all ears! Now one interesting exponent of this design is the doubling aspect of the diode "gate". You must use half the frequency. This makes for a more stable, slower tuning LO. To detect 3.6mc, you inject 1.8mc. Your 40m DC rx tunes like an 80 metre rx. Now . . . consider a v/t RF amp, minimum gain, feeding this antiparallel diode detector using a tube LO and tube AF. Now, instead of operating at audio, have the diodes operating at RF. The AM cancelling property would not happen, but you may have effective bandpass filtering AND a stable LO. Then, feed a tube regen detector, audio, etc. OR, just a v/t RF amp at the front end, detect at the doubler, and go straight to the audio, letting the front end to do a good part of the gain-work, so you wouldn't need so much at audio. Splitting the gain might make for less microfoniks. ( of course, i sorta liked the ringing sound of the filaments in a '30.) Thots? gary // wd4nka visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_146.24bd475c.2d8cb7bd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just thinking= , there was one DC set-up that might translate
to v/t mode in that the primary detectors are diodes. This
would not even be necessarily a hybrid, unless one considers
any use of silicone/ germanium diode detection a hybrid, which=20
would leave out a considerable number of tube type receivers=20
from the '60s.
From time to time in CQ and QST, a fella named Bozidar
Pasaric, YU2HL came up with cool eastern eu. dc designs
that would remind me that these guys definately play outside
the sandbox ( think outside the box ). One such article=20
appeared in the CQ ish for 6/83, "Build Your Own Direct
Conversion Receiver". YU2HL already had a decade of very
techy articles published in QST by this time, mostly doubly
balanced mosfet mixers, etc. all with the common goal of
reducing the front end saturation from the local stations
which, from what i read, was horrid. This was eastern eu.
during the cold war. HF was a nightmare there, i guess.
In this article, a very simple antiparallel diode arrangement
was used, incorporating matched silicone diodes with an 0.5v=20
avalanche, or germanium (1.0 breakdown). I might have=20
proffered this topic before on this list, i forgot. If i have, pse= =20
bear with.
In this setup, the diodes are fed with the LO signal. Each
half of the sine would pop open ( make to conduct )one or=20
the other diode. This made the diodes act as a doubling=20
"switch". These were in turn coupled to the antenna.
The only signals that could pass were those that matched=20
the frequency at which the diode pair were switching.
The diode arrangement cancels any AM detection ( when
used as a DC receiver, that is ), and what you have is the=20
pure result of mixing.
The brainchild behind this mixer was V. Polyakov,
RA3AAE. I call it a "Polyakov mixer". I have never seen
another article involving this scheme. It was most effective
in the eastern bloc countries from what i heard. But we
in the west, well . . . i think sometimes there is a bit of
stuffery sometimes that keeps these simple things at a
rather low profile. The polyakov mixer finds a home these
days at mirowave, i believe. This is why when you overseas
folks come up with a way you traditionally meet challenges,
we here at WD4NKA are all ears!
Now one interesting exponent of this design is the doubling
aspect of the diode "gate". You must use half the frequency.
This makes for a more stable, slower tuning LO. To detect
3.6mc, you inject 1.8mc. Your 40m DC rx tunes like an 80
metre rx.
Now . . . consider a v/t RF amp, minimum gain, feeding this
antiparallel diode detector using a tube LO and tube AF.
Now, instead of operating at audio, have the diodes operating=20
at RF. The AM cancelling property would not happen, but you=20
may have effective bandpass filtering AND a stable LO. Then,=20
feed a tube regen detector, audio, etc.
OR, just a v/t RF amp at the front end, detect at the doubler,
and go straight to the audio, letting the front end to do a good
part of the gain-work, so you wouldn't need so much at audio.
Splitting the gain might make for less microfoniks. ( of course,
i sorta liked the ringing sound of the filaments in a '30.)
Thots?
gary // wd4nka
visit my site at:
http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_146.24bd475c.2d8cb7bd_boundary--Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:03:35 EST From: Wd4nka@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> Regenerodyne ( nc 1-10 )--part1_1d2.1c82cbef.2d8cba27_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/19/04 3:41:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, ah7i@atl.org writes: > It's conversion to 10.7 and then regen detector at 10.7. > Yes, very attractive. Grey PW dial and cabinet. Grey doghouse supply. > But not particularly sensitive. > ********** i think i remember seeing an ad for one in an old handbook. Seems like they were aiming at the mid-market, the prices were not all that high. They probably figured if you were seriously gonna do VHF, you'd get a more specialised, higher priced rig. Now, i brought up the NC 1-10. That was, from what Bill Orr describes, quite a rig. Used the 955 triode and was engineered for the owner to experiment with. It was regen up to 10m, with the option of using superregeneration, and above 10 it was a superregen only. I think it could actually be used as low as 21mc, and superregen was an AM advantage even there. NC printed their "infomercial" on it in one of the 1936 QSTs. I have seen these go for very depressed prices on the Bay due to general lack of recognition. Hah, in fact so do some FB-7s. Even though the 1-10 was not a superhet, it would seem it was intended for more than casual vhf-ing. Bet they saw lots of WERS work, just like the Abbot TR4 5m tx/rx. gary // wd4nka visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/ "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_1d2.1c82cbef.2d8cba27_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message=20= dated 3/19/04 3:41:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, ah7i@atl.org writes:
It's conversion to 10.7 and= then regen detector at 10.7.
Yes, very attractive. Grey PW dial and cabinet. Grey doghouse supply.
But not particularly sensitive.
********** i think i remember seeing an ad for one in an old handbook.
Seems like they were aiming at the mid-market, the prices were not
all that high. They probably figured if you were seriously gonna d= o
VHF, you'd get a more specialised, higher priced rig.
Now, i brought up the NC 1-10. That was, from what Bill Orr descri= bes,
quite a rig. Used the 955 triode and was engineered for the owner=20= to
experiment with. It was regen up to 10m, with the option of using
superregeneration, and above 10 it was a superregen only. I think=20= it
could actually be used as low as 21mc, and superregen was an AM
advantage even there. NC printed their "infomercial" on it in one=20= of the
1936 QSTs. I have seen these go for very depressed prices on the B= ay
due to general lack of recognition. Hah, in fact so do some FB-7s.
Even though the 1-10 was not a superhet, it would seem it was intended
for more than casual vhf-ing. Bet they saw lots of WERS work, just
like the Abbot TR4 5m tx/rx.
gary // wd4nka
visit my site at:
http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_1d2.1c82cbef.2d8cba27_boundary--Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:16:32 -0700 From: "Chris Trask"Subject: GB> Ultimate Receiver Front End I've been pouring over countless datasheets for all kinds of tubes that I've never heard of before, putting together a lineup of tubes for the front end of this project. Here's what I've come up with: 1. RF Amp 6EJ7 Good noise and linearity throughout the AVC range. 2. 1st mixer 6BK7B Good noise figure (7.0dB) and linearity. Cathode LO injection. 40MHz 1st IF. 3. 1st LO 6EU8 Pentode for injection locked VFO (good noise), triode for grounded grid buffer (best for isolation). Transformer coupled to mixer (less expensive). 4. 2nd mixer 6BK7B Good noise figure (7.0dB) and linearity. Cathode LO injection. 8MHz 2nd IF. 5. 2nd LO 6EU8 Pentode for linear tuning LMO (good noise), triode for grounded grid buffer (best for isolation). Transformer coupled to mixer (less expensive). Chris ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications / extinct stuff, anyhow? / \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY _ |/ Principal Engineer oo\ Sonoran Radio Research (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 \ \ / \ \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 . ( ) \ '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask c__; c__; '-..'>.__ Graphics by Loek Frederiks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"To: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: RE: GB> Ultimate receiver > Chris has it just right. > > An "ideal" receiver has: > > 1 - All the selectivity at the antenna. > > 2 - All the gain AFTER the selectivity, so only the desired signal is > amplified. > > That's what makes regens so good, and so bad. In their pure one-tube form, > they usually have all the selectivity they can have at the antenna end - > that's good, but it's often not enough selectivity on the higher frequencies > - that's bad. > > So we add audio selectivity. Now we have the regen stage amplifying signals > we don't hear because they are filtered out later in the audio stage. That's > bad. Those signals can overload the detector ahead of the selectivity. > > So we put a mixer in to make a superhet that takes the HF signal frequency > down to a low I.F. where the selectivity is good again. The noise figure of > the mixer and I.F. amplifiers must be low enough that it does not mask the > noise picked up by the antenna. That's really easy to do when: > > 1 - The frequency is below about 14 MHz. Atmospheric noise is quite high for > most of us below that frequency. > > 2 - The total selectivity isn't too good. The better the selectivity, the > less atmospheric noise gets amplified so the 'quieter' the receiver stages > must be. Still, most tubes and sand-state mixers and I.F. amps are FB way > down to selectivities of 100 Hz or so up through 20 meters at least - and a > few are FB all the way to maybe 30 MHz. > > The design of any receiver is a balancing act as Chris said. Since we have > never built a tunable filter that can be attached to the antenna that > provides the sort of selectivity we normally want, we have some stages AHEAD > of the selective filter. We want those stages to be able to deal with very > strong off-frequency signals without overloading. So a absolute minimum of > "gain" ahead of the selective filters (usually in the I.F.) is ideal - just > enough to overcome atmospheric noise. > > A perfectly valid test of the noise figure of any receiver is to disconnect > the antenna while listening to noise with the narrowest selectivity > available. If the noise level drops, then atmospheric noise is still > over-riding the internal noise and the "sensitivity" is limited entirely by > the selectivity and atmospheric noise, not the internally-generated noise. > > In the 1930's, this business of avoiding strong-signal overload wasn't such > a big deal, apparently, and a lot of receiver manufacturers opted to put a > significant amount of gain ahead of the I.F. filter. That cut the cost of > the receiver because they NEEDED those stages ahead of the mixer. Here's > why. > > In a superhet there are two sorts of "selectivity" needed. One is to sort > out only the signal we want to hear. That's what we do at the I.F. and > possibly with an audio filter helping in the audio amps. But a superhet will > also respond to two different frequencies coming in at the antenna - the one > we want and the 'image' produced in the mixer. We need enough selectivity > AHEAD of the mixer to suppress the 'image' frequency. The image frequency is > 2 times the I.F. from the signal we want. > > With the popular 455 kHz I.F.s that were used, the image becomes a real > problem up above 7 MHz. One tuned circuit simply won't attenuate a signal > 910 kHz away all that well. > > So designers added more tuned circuits ahead of the mixer for the purpose of > suppressing the image frequency. Those circuits have losses, so they add RF > amplifiers to make up for the losses. As long as they had to add those > amplifiers, they might as well build up some of the total system gain there > too, but that's BEFORE the selective I.F filter, so doing so makes the > receiver more vulnerable to overload from off-frequency signals. > > One solution is to raise the I.F. so the image isn't a problem. That led to > multiple-conversion designs that had a high first I.F. to help with image > suppression and a low second I.F. for selectivity. But now we have even MORE > stages ahead of the selective I.F. that can overload. We were stuck with > that until really good high-frequency filters became available that let us > take all of the selectivity at an I.F. of 2, 4 or even 9 MHz! Once we could > use such a high I.F., we didn't need a lot of selectivity ahead of the mixer > again. That's why most modern (sand-state) receivers have the first mixer > coupled directly to the antenna and that mixer is often a passive device > that has no gain. > > Such a mixer provides excellent results up to the frequency where then > atmospheric noise gets down near the noise generated by the mixer - > somewhere around 14 MHz or so. That's why modern receivers have a switchable > preamp that can be turned on at the higher frequencies where a lower noise > figure is needed. The preamp is electrically quieter than the mixer and > amplifies the signals so they overcome the mixer noise, keeping the receiver > sensitivity as great as needed on the quieter higher frequencies. It can be > turned off to avoid compromising the strong-signal capability on frequencies > low enough that the mixer noise is overcome by the atmospheric noise. > > It's a very difficult balancing act! An HF receiver needs somewhere around > 100 dB of gain to bring up a weak signal to good audio level. If the wrong > signals are allowed to see much of that gain, they'll overload the > amplifiers and create all sorts of noise, squawks, birdies and other > unwanted QRM. > > Ron AC7AC > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > We talk about 'low noise' mixers and 'low noise' tubes. Is 'noise' > > defined as just unwanted signals? Signals such as unwanted products > > at the IF output, or are there additional considerations? Can I > > assume that a tube is low in noise mainly because it has a > > particularly clean output when used as a mixer. I would think that > > the circuit the tube is used in would also have a significant effect. > > i.e. the quality and quantity of the output filters. Can a 'low > > noise' tube become noisier if used in a poorly designed circuit? > > > > I have heard that the first mixer ( I guess the pre-mixer in some > > sets. In anycase, the mixer closest to the antenna input.) sets the > > noise figure for the entire radio. That seems to imply that > > additional mixers, further removed from the antenna, have little > > effect. How 'little' is that effect or is this erroneous thinking? > > > > It depends on the gain of the previous stages. The higher the gain of > the earlier stages, the less effect the noise of the later stages has. There > comes a point where a good low-noise frontend dominates the NF of the > receiver if the gain is sufficiently high. > > For the most part, the RF amplifier and first mixer stages will > determine the overall NF of the receiver. What becomes important afterwards > is the linearity. A good deal of intermod products are created in these > early stages, but in later stages where the signal levels are higher the > problem can become more severe. It becomes important to establish the > overall bandwidth as early as possible, preferrably immediately after the > first mixer. > > ... > Chris > > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:52:48 -0700 From: "Chris Trask"Subject: Re: GB> Ultimate Receiver Front End I forgot to mention that in the evaluation of dual triodes for the mixer, I found that the 12AV7 (18.0mA per plate, 294 ohms ENR) is 25% quieter than the 12AT7 (11.0mA per plate, 417 ohms ENR) and is far more linear. Those of you who are using the 12AT7 as a mixer may want to try substituting the 12AV7 (adjust the bias) and see if there is a noticable difference. The 6J6 turned out to be very noisy (8.5mA per plate, 472 ohms ENR) so was dropped from consideration. One tube, the 6KN8 is very very quiet (16.0mA per plate, 156 ohms ENR), but no curves were found so the linearity could not be evaluated. The 6DJ8 and 6ES8 also had good noise (15.0mA per plate, 200 ohms ENR), but the linearity was less than good. The 6BK7B that I chose has very good noise (7dB NF, 18.0mA per plate, 269 ohms ENR) and the best linearity of those that I looked at. Chris ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications / extinct stuff, anyhow? / \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY _ |/ Principal Engineer oo\ Sonoran Radio Research (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 \ \ / \ \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 . ( ) \ '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask c__; c__; '-..'>.__ Graphics by Loek FrederiksDate: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:04:40 EST From: Wd4nka@aol.com Subject: GB> Current production old fashioned technologies--part1_118.305fc1fd.2d8cc878_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Someone once told me they don't make anything=20 like they used to. This is a bit off topic ( what else is new? ) but might be interesting for you traditionalists out there, especially those who like to dink with old technologies, radios, sailboats, steam engines and black powder. Add my personal favourite, British bikes. Google up "Royal Enfield" and check out those machines. Straightway out of the 1950s and 60s, and these are not replicas! No sir, these are their regular production bikes. Nowadays they are made out of Delhi, India instead of their native Birmingham, but are nonetheless reclaiming their share of brit- bike devotees. This year they had a race team at Daytona, which i call "Hog Heaven" during bike-week. And . . . the Enfield cost under =A3 4000, a far, far, far cry from Norton and Harley !! =20 ( a Bullet Clubman is under 5000 dollars US! ) Of course here, near Daytona, it's hard to find many folks with the proper taste to apprehend the finer Vincents, HRDs and other British treasures. ( says gary, sipping his Earl Grey. :>) Take a peek at=20 http://www.bridge-road-motorcycles.fsnet.co.uk/royal_enfield.htm Check out the military Bullet at the bottom, too. It's the real item. So, sailing, motorrads and valve radios! The retro- action is growing! gary // wd4nka visit my site at: http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20 "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." --part1_118.305fc1fd.2d8cc878_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Someone once=20= told me they don't make anything=20
like they used to. This is a bit off topic ( what else
is new? ) but might be interesting for you traditionalists
out there, especially those who like to dink with old
technologies, radios, sailboats, steam engines and
black powder. Add my personal favourite, British bikes.
Google up "Royal Enfield" and check out those
machines. Straightway out of the 1950s and 60s,
and these are not replicas! No sir, these are their
regular production bikes. Nowadays they are made
out of Delhi, India instead of their native Birmingham,
but are nonetheless reclaiming their share of brit-
bike devotees. This year they had a race team at
Daytona, which i call "Hog Heaven" during bike-week.
And . . . the Enfield cost under =A3 4000, a far, far,
far cry from Norton and Harley !!
( a Bullet Clubman is under 5000 dollars US! )
Of course here, near Daytona, it's hard to find
many folks with the proper taste to apprehend
the finer Vincents, HRDs and other British treasures.
( says gary, sipping his Earl Grey. :>)
Take a peek at=20
http://www.bridge-road-motorcycles.fsnet.co.uk/royal_enfield.htm
Check out the military Bullet at the bottom, too. It's the real it= em.
So, sailing, motorrads and valve radios! The retro-
action is growing!
gary // wd4nka
visit my site at:
http://www.qsl.net/wd4nka/=20
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia."
--part1_118.305fc1fd.2d8cc878_boundary--Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:34:31 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: GB> Lightning Calculator Is there a software version of the old ARRL Lightning Calculator? 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL Oxnard, CA USA "Snort Rosin" ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:55:13 -0600 From: "Sandy W5TVW"Subject: GB> Tube reference manual There is a book called "electron tube vade mecum", I think published hard cover in Poland now. Anybody have a source for these? 73, Sandy W5TVWDate: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:11:33 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> OT: Really terrible story... Do you recall poor Mili Henry the 18 turn coil? Well, she some watt recovered from her ordeal with Hopalong Capacity but really wasn't the same after that. Mili could no longer resonate, had problems coupling and lost all continuity. She had a job wired with the EMF Co. but was shocked to discover that they folded back after too many IR losses. It was apparent that their field collapsed. In her current situation, Mili actually believed that she had no potential and thought that by moving to a solid state things would be beta. At first she considered a journey to Brittain but instead settled in the town of Schockley where her point contact had found a nice rental half-duplex near the junction. Mili moved in with her pet cats, a long-tailed pair, and tried to forget the past by reading and tending her germaniums. At one point she was tempted to get silicon implants but quickly realized that idea didn't hole any promise for her. Mili even went so far as to buy a brand new PTO convertible but it didn't oscillator and it began to appear that nothing would exciter. Fortunately she was able to flyback home but once there she began to experience ringing and things rapidly degenerated. Mili tried her best but managed only to eke out a subroutine existence. She was continually harassed by a root mean square who hung around her neighborhood and was known only by his initials, "A.C.". One day he and his triple gang teased Mili and wound up taking turns yelling "Ha, Ha! You'll never get connected! You'll be solenoid the rest of your life!". A.C. finally relented calling out to his lugs, "Come on boys, let's go get some Pi!". She just told them all to go to L. Finally, the poor coil was saturated and began to unwind so she checked herself into the degaussing center. There she joined the self help group UTC (United Traumatized Coils) and things started looking up. At long last Mili found work at the Thordarson factory and met a nice man by the name of Armstrong who managed to transformer. They often go on dates in his car because he loves to driver. Armstrong sometimes tries to tickler but she always recoils. I suppose it's sort of a reflex but fortunately she has never tried to throttle him. That's it, I'm tapped out. I can Hartley write any more. The End ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:16:26 -0800 From: Mike FallonSubject: GB> Re: Tube reference manual Sandy: Ned Carlson at Triode Electronics had copies a couple of years ago. Be sure you're sitting down when you check the price. www.triodeelectronics.com I don't see it in the current on-line catalog. Probably need to call. 73, Mike Mike Fallon K6YOQ Veradale, WA On 3/19/04 3:55 PM, Sandy W5TVW wrote: > There is a book called "electron tube vade mecum", I think published > hard cover in Poland now. Anybody have a source for these? > 73, > Sandy W5TVW >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:44:50 -0700 From: "Lloyd"Subject: GB> Horrible? Sounds to me like a few of you are due for a spring vacation romp in the Rubber Rumpus Room at the Happy Valley Laughing Academy. Please visit my web site http://www.lloydsdipsydumpster.com/ Lloyd Godsey KK7IZ 1315 N. Udall Circle Mesa, Az 85203 480-620-7145 (cell)Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:01:29 EST From: N2EY@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor--part1_26.4655ea57.2d8cfff9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/17/04 10:36:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, Wd4nka@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 3/16/04 9:01:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, N2EY@aol.com > writes: > > > >> The Titanic's two reciprocating engines were about the size of the >> engine pictured. But they required steam from external boilers, and produced far >> less horsepower. >> > > ******** I think she also had one turbine. You are correct, sir! The two reciprocating engines were triple-expansion type, and drove the port and starboard propellers. Maximum speed ~75 RPM. Their exhaust steam fed the turbine, which drove the center propeller. Despite its smaller size, the turbine was at least as powerful. But the turbine could not be reversed. In the Cameron film, this is correctly depicted when "all back full" is called for - the two outer propellers reverse but the center one just stops. > > Funny, she was a fast ship, attributed to her horses. Oddly enough, the Olympic class (Olympic, Titanic, and Gigantic/Britannic) were not the absolute fastest of their time. I have a book on the Titanic's construction, and one of the most impressive facts about those ships was how much space was taken up by the power systems - boilers, flues, coal bunkers, engines, pipes, etc. And of course there had to be space and accomodations for all of the trimmers, stokers, greasers, mechanics and engineers needed to run the power systems. A modern diesel-powered ship of Titanic's size could eliminate much of that stuff, and use the space for other things. But > > ever stop and look at a painting of an old china or san > fransisco 5 or 6 masted square rigged clipper and consider > the massive horespower developed in the canvasses on > a heavy air day running before the wind ( as opposed to > reaching) ? Glowbug connect: many a mate carried his > own version of "Fire-bottles". Different kind of fire, tho . . . > We used to ballast our day-sailers with pony kegs, which meant > that as the day wore on, she would lose draught. Draught > to the Draught, i always say. Aww, ya hadda be there. > Aye! > Who was that guy that couldn't sell the British admiralty on > the steam turbine, so on QV's diamond jubilee, he took > his steam-turbine outfitted, modified tug and injected himself > into the parade of dreadnoughts and destroyers, fishtailing > and running rings around them at over 40 knots. I guess > the ol' royal gal herself stood up and asked "Ahem . . who > IS that man?? " > > We are not amused.! > Victoria Regina. She had how many kids? Gives a new meaning to the term "Victoria's Secret" > My guess the Admiralty learned a lesson, because it was > just after that they bought into Marconi's wireless signalling > device. > Yet it took the Titanic sinking for them to realize how to use it to best advantage! 73 de Jim, N2EY One wonders if any of the folks who run the big marine diesels know "McAndrew's Hymn". It's really quite appropriate. --part1_26.4655ea57.2d8cfff9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a me= ssage dated 3/17/04 10:36:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, Wd4nka@aol.com writes= :
In a message dated 3/16/04 9:01= :31 PM Eastern Standard Time, N2EY@aol.com writes:
The Titanic's two recipro= cating engines were about the size of the engine pictured. But they required= steam from external boilers, and produced far less horsepower.
******** I think she also had one turbine.
You are correct, sir!
The two reciprocating engines were triple-expansion type, and drove the port= and starboard propellers. Maximum speed ~75 RPM. Their exhaust steam fed th= e turbine, which drove the center propeller. Despite its smaller size, the t= urbine was at least as powerful. But the turbine could not be reversed. In t= he Cameron film, this is correctly depicted when "all back full" is called f= or - the two outer propellers reverse but the center one just stops.
Funny, she was a fast ship, attributed to her horses.
Oddly enough, the Olympic class (Olympic, Titanic, and Gigantic/Britannic)=20= were not the absolute fastest of their time.
I have a book on the Titanic's construction, and one of the most impressive=20= facts about those ships was how much space was taken up by the power systems= - boilers, flues, coal bunkers, engines, pipes, etc. And of course there ha= d to be space and accomodations for all of the trimmers, stokers, greasers,=20= mechanics and engineers needed to run the power systems. A modern diesel-pow= ered ship of Titanic's size could eliminate much of that stuff, and use the=20= space for other things.
But
ever stop and look at a painting of an old china or san
fransisco 5 or 6 masted square rigged clipper and consider
the massive horespower developed in the canvasses on
a heavy air day running before the wind ( as opposed to
reaching) ? Glowbug connect: many a mate carried his
own version of "Fire-bottles". Different kind of fire, tho . . .
We used to ballast our day-sailers with pony kegs, which meant
that as the day wore on, she would lose draught. Draught
to the Draught, i always say. Aww, ya hadda be there.
Aye!
Who was that guy that couldn't=20= sell the British admiralty on
the steam turbine, so on QV's diamond jubilee, he took
his steam-turbine outfitted, modified tug and injected himself
into the parade of dreadnoughts and destroyers, fishtailing
and running rings around them at over 40 knots. I guess
the ol' royal gal herself stood up and asked "Ahem . . who
IS that man?? "
We are not amused.!
Victoria Regina. She had how many kids? Gives a new meaning to the term "Vi= ctoria's Secret"
My guess the Admiralty learned=20= a lesson, because it was
just after that they bought into Marconi's wireless signalling
device.
Yet it took the Titanic sinking for them to realize how to use it to best a= dvantage!
73 de Jim, N2EY
One wonders if any of the folks who run the big marine diesels know "McAndre= w's Hymn". It's really quite appropriate.
--part1_26.4655ea57.2d8cfff9_boundary--Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:37:52 -0700 From: Joseph BentoSubject: Re: GB> Lightning Calculator The real thing is once again available new from the ARRL at: http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?item=9123 If you want a software version, you can find it at: http://www.peeblesoriginals.com/projects-instructions.html It will calculate cylindrical and spiderweb coil turns required as well as capacitance required for frequency of choice. Note that it requires Excel to work. Joe, N6DGY Steve Smith wrote: > Is there a software version of the old ARRL Lightning Calculator? > > 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL > Oxnard, CA USA > "Snort Rosin" > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:11:33 -0800 From: Steve SmithSubject: Re: GB> OT: Really terrible story... Do you recall poor Mili Henry the 18 turn coil? Well, she some watt recovered from her ordeal with Hopalong Capacity but really wasn't the same after that. Mili could no longer resonate, had problems coupling and lost all continuity. She had a job wired with the EMF Co. but was shocked to discover that they folded back after too many IR losses. It was apparent that their field collapsed. In her current situation, Mili actually believed that she had no potential and thought that by moving to a solid state things would be beta. At first she considered a journey to Brittain but instead settled in the town of Schockley where her point contact had found a nice rental half-duplex near the junction. Mili moved in with her pet cats, a long-tailed pair, and tried to forget the past by reading and tending her germaniums. At one point she was tempted to get silicon implants but quickly realized that idea didn't hole any promise for her. Mili even went so far as to buy a brand new PTO convertible but it didn't oscillator and it began to appear that nothing would exciter. Fortunately she was able to flyback home but once there she began to experience ringing and things rapidly degenerated. Mili tried her best but managed only to eke out a subroutine existence. She was continually harassed by a root mean square who hung around her neighborhood and was known only by his initials, "A.C.". One day he and his triple gang teased Mili and wound up taking turns yelling "Ha, Ha! You'll never get connected! You'll be solenoid the rest of your life!". A.C. finally relented calling out to his lugs, "Come on boys, let's go get some Pi!". She just told them all to go to L. Finally, the poor coil was saturated and began to unwind so she checked herself into the degaussing center. There she joined the self help group UTC (United Traumatized Coils) and things started looking up. At long last Mili found work at the Thordarson factory and met a nice man by the name of Armstrong who managed to transformer. They often go on dates in his car because he loves to driver. Armstrong sometimes tries to tickler but she always recoils. I suppose it's sort of a reflex but fortunately she has never tried to throttle him. That's it, I'm tapped out. I can Hartley write any more. The End ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:16:26 -0800 From: Mike FallonSubject: GB> Re: Tube reference manual Sandy: Ned Carlson at Triode Electronics had copies a couple of years ago. Be sure you're sitting down when you check the price. www.triodeelectronics.com I don't see it in the current on-line catalog. Probably need to call. 73, Mike Mike Fallon K6YOQ Veradale, WA On 3/19/04 3:55 PM, Sandy W5TVW wrote: > There is a book called "electron tube vade mecum", I think published > hard cover in Poland now. Anybody have a source for these? > 73, > Sandy W5TVW >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:44:50 -0700 From: "Lloyd"Subject: GB> Horrible? Sounds to me like a few of you are due for a spring vacation romp in the Rubber Rumpus Room at the Happy Valley Laughing Academy. Please visit my web site http://www.lloydsdipsydumpster.com/ Lloyd Godsey KK7IZ 1315 N. Udall Circle Mesa, Az 85203 480-620-7145 (cell)Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:01:29 EST From: N2EY@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> OT: Big motor--part1_26.4655ea57.2d8cfff9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/17/04 10:36:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, Wd4nka@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 3/16/04 9:01:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, N2EY@aol.com > writes: > > > >> The Titanic's two reciprocating engines were about the size of the >> engine pictured. But they required steam from external boilers, and produced far >> less horsepower. >> > > ******** I think she also had one turbine. You are correct, sir! The two reciprocating engines were triple-expansion type, and drove the port and starboard propellers. Maximum speed ~75 RPM. Their exhaust steam fed the turbine, which drove the center propeller. Despite its smaller size, the turbine was at least as powerful. But the turbine could not be reversed. In the Cameron film, this is correctly depicted when "all back full" is called for - the two outer propellers reverse but the center one just stops. > > Funny, she was a fast ship, attributed to her horses. Oddly enough, the Olympic class (Olympic, Titanic, and Gigantic/Britannic) were not the absolute fastest of their time. I have a book on the Titanic's construction, and one of the most impressive facts about those ships was how much space was taken up by the power systems - boilers, flues, coal bunkers, engines, pipes, etc. And of course there had to be space and accomodations for all of the trimmers, stokers, greasers, mechanics and engineers needed to run the power systems. A modern diesel-powered ship of Titanic's size could eliminate much of that stuff, and use the space for other things. But > > ever stop and look at a painting of an old china or san > fransisco 5 or 6 masted square rigged clipper and consider > the massive horespower developed in the canvasses on > a heavy air day running before the wind ( as opposed to > reaching) ? Glowbug connect: many a mate carried his > own version of "Fire-bottles". Different kind of fire, tho . . . > We used to ballast our day-sailers with pony kegs, which meant > that as the day wore on, she would lose draught. Draught > to the Draught, i always say. Aww, ya hadda be there. > Aye! > Who was that guy that couldn't sell the British admiralty on > the steam turbine, so on QV's diamond jubilee, he took > his steam-turbine outfitted, modified tug and injected himself > into the parade of dreadnoughts and destroyers, fishtailing > and running rings around them at over 40 knots. I guess > the ol' royal gal herself stood up and asked "Ahem . . who > IS that man?? " > > We are not amused.! > Victoria Regina. She had how many kids? Gives a new meaning to the term "Victoria's Secret" > My guess the Admiralty learned a lesson, because it was > just after that they bought into Marconi's wireless signalling > device. > Yet it took the Titanic sinking for them to realize how to use it to best advantage! 73 de Jim, N2EY One wonders if any of the folks who run the big marine diesels know "McAndrew's Hymn". It's really quite appropriate. --part1_26.4655ea57.2d8cfff9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a me= ssage dated 3/17/04 10:36:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, Wd4nka@aol.com writes= :
In a message dated 3/16/04 9:01= :31 PM Eastern Standard Time, N2EY@aol.com writes:
The Titanic's two recipro= cating engines were about the size of the engine pictured. But they required= steam from external boilers, and produced far less horsepower.
******** I think she also had one turbine.
You are correct, sir!
The two reciprocating engines were triple-expansion type, and drove the port= and starboard propellers. Maximum speed ~75 RPM. Their exhaust steam fed th= e turbine, which drove the center propeller. Despite its smaller size, the t= urbine was at least as powerful. But the turbine could not be reversed. In t= he Cameron film, this is correctly depicted when "all back full" is called f= or - the two outer propellers reverse but the center one just stops.
Funny, she was a fast ship, attributed to her horses.
Oddly enough, the Olympic class (Olympic, Titanic, and Gigantic/Britannic)=20= were not the absolute fastest of their time.
I have a book on the Titanic's construction, and one of the most impressive=20= facts about those ships was how much space was taken up by the power systems= - boilers, flues, coal bunkers, engines, pipes, etc. And of course there ha= d to be space and accomodations for all of the trimmers, stokers, greasers,=20= mechanics and engineers needed to run the power systems. A modern diesel-pow= ered ship of Titanic's size could eliminate much of that stuff, and use the=20= space for other things.
But
ever stop and look at a painting of an old china or san
fransisco 5 or 6 masted square rigged clipper and consider
the massive horespower developed in the canvasses on
a heavy air day running before the wind ( as opposed to
reaching) ? Glowbug connect: many a mate carried his
own version of "Fire-bottles". Different kind of fire, tho . . .
We used to ballast our day-sailers with pony kegs, which meant
that as the day wore on, she would lose draught. Draught
to the Draught, i always say. Aww, ya hadda be there.
Aye!
Who was that guy that couldn't=20= sell the British admiralty on
the steam turbine, so on QV's diamond jubilee, he took
his steam-turbine outfitted, modified tug and injected himself
into the parade of dreadnoughts and destroyers, fishtailing
and running rings around them at over 40 knots. I guess
the ol' royal gal herself stood up and asked "Ahem . . who
IS that man?? "
We are not amused.!
Victoria Regina. She had how many kids? Gives a new meaning to the term "Vi= ctoria's Secret"
My guess the Admiralty learned=20= a lesson, because it was
just after that they bought into Marconi's wireless signalling
device.
Yet it took the Titanic sinking for them to realize how to use it to best a= dvantage!
73 de Jim, N2EY
One wonders if any of the folks who run the big marine diesels know "McAndre= w's Hymn". It's really quite appropriate.
--part1_26.4655ea57.2d8cfff9_boundary--Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:37:52 -0700 From: Joseph BentoSubject: Re: GB> Lightning Calculator The real thing is once again available new from the ARRL at: http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?item=9123 If you want a software version, you can find it at: http://www.peeblesoriginals.com/projects-instructions.html It will calculate cylindrical and spiderweb coil turns required as well as capacitance required for frequency of choice. Note that it requires Excel to work. Joe, N6DGY Steve Smith wrote: > Is there a software version of the old ARRL Lightning Calculator? > > 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL > Oxnard, CA USA > "Snort Rosin" > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:30:01 -0600 From: "whoag"Subject: RE: GB> Current production old fashioned technologies Back in the early ‘50s I used to ride with a friend who had a Black Shadow - awesome bike! At that time I had one of Indian’s V-twin shaft-drive prototypes that they made for the US Army in “42??. He used to blow me away for the first 25 miles but it seemed to develop a bad case of croup after that and I was usually in the lead on the final leg. Only had limited experience with brit bikes. An unremarkable time with a 125 James and an all too short one with a 500cc BSA Gold Star (lost the job necessary to make the payments). Now if they would only bring back the Morgan Plus Four. Will, WA5OLT --------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilson Hoag whoag@flash.net 1704 Venetian Circle Arlington, TX + 1 817 277-9874 76013-3306Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:33:59 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: GB> Glass Piston Caps What is a typical voltage rating for a glass piston cap? How would one estimate? Is the tempco positive, negative or NPO? I glommed onto a handful of small boards that each have one very nice cap of this sort. They are marked only "VOL TP60CAX". Adjustment is by a small Allen wrench and the range, according to my measurement, is about 0.7-65 pF. Brad _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:37:57 -0600 From: "Bill Hawkins"Subject: RE: GB> Lightning Calculator "It will calculate cylindrical and spiderweb coil turns" You mean it doesn't calculate lightning parameters? Darn.Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:44:28 -0000 From: "Barry Kirkwood"Subject: Re: GB> Current production old fashioned technologies Hoboy! If that was a Vincent Black Shadow, then worth the price of a mansion on the beach north of L.A. Morgan Plus 4: Hard ride, but if you are really keen the plans are available off the web, and they come into their own with a modern Japanese 4 cylinder with all the trimmings. My last venture into British sports cars was a Reliant Scimitar SE5. Gave up on the dreadful english Ford V-6 and lowered a Toyota V8 4/12 litre into it. Made for an interesting gentleman's touring car. 73 Barry end Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD Signal Hill Homestay 66 Cory Road Palm Beach Waiheke Island 1240 NEW ZEALAND ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "whoag"To: "GLOWBUGS" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 4:30 AM Subject: RE: GB> Current production old fashioned technologies Back in the early ‘50s I used to ride with a friend who had a Black Shadow - awesome bike! At that time I had one of Indian’s V-twin shaft-drive prototypes that they made for the US Army in “42??. He used to blow me away for the first 25 miles but it seemed to develop a bad case of croup after that and I was usually in the lead on the final leg. Only had limited experience with brit bikes. An unremarkable time with a 125 James and an all too short one with a 500cc BSA Gold Star (lost the job necessary to make the payments). Now if they would only bring back the Morgan Plus Four. Will, WA5OLT --------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilson Hoag whoag@flash.net 1704 Venetian Circle Arlington, TX + 1 817 277-9874 76013-3306 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:54:48 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: RE: GB> Glass Piston Caps I should have looked harder before posting ... found it at Voltronics Corp site. >From: "Brad Hernlem">What is a typical voltage rating for a glass piston cap? How would one >estimate? Is the tempco positive, negative or NPO? > >I glommed onto a handful of small boards that each have one very nice cap >of this sort. They are marked only "VOL TP60CAX". Adjustment is by a small >Allen wrench and the range, according to my measurement, is about 0.7-65 >pF. > >Brad _________________________________________________________________ Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms – all in one place at MSN Money! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:31:40 -0800 From: "John Moriarity"Subject: Re: GB> Glass Piston Caps > What is a typical voltage rating for a glass piston cap? How would one > estimate? Is the tempco positive, negative or NPO? Can't answer your question, but I'll bet they were made by Voltronics. Maybe you can find information with that as a start. 73, John - K6QQDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:38:30 -0500 From: "Ed Swynar"Subject: Re: GB> Lightning Calculator Folks, If you're seriusly into experiments with RF/homebrewing, that little ARRL Lightning Calculator is a "must-have" item for your shack. I have TWO of them, in case I wear the first one out(!). They are a god-send... ~73~ Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Bento"To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:37 PM Subject: Re: GB> Lightning Calculator > The real thing is once again available new from the ARRL at: > http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?item=9123 > > If you want a software version, you can find it at: > http://www.peeblesoriginals.com/projects-instructions.html > > It will calculate cylindrical and spiderweb coil turns required as well > as capacitance required for frequency of choice. Note that it requires > Excel to work. > > Joe, N6DGY > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > Is there a software version of the old ARRL Lightning Calculator? > > > > 73.......Steve Smith WB6TNL > > Oxnard, CA USA > > "Snort Rosin" > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 06:57:22 -0600 From: Tom NorrisSubject: GB> OT: Interesting Ad for Free Radio Equipment Lets do our best to not let THIS future come to pass > >Free Ham Radio Gear.... I hadn't been on the ham bands for many >years when I saw the ad in the newspaper For Sale Column. I had >struggled really hard to get my ham license as a teenager. But in my >adult life I got involved in other things, and the radio gear on the >bench had a fine coating of dust on it from inactivity. > >The ad said -- "Giving away Ham Radio Gear. You pick up. No charge. >Free to a good home!" Wow I thought - This sounds too good to be >true! I had just the other day thought how much fun it would be to >turn the radio on and make a few contacts both local and >worldwide. > >So I called the number and a pleasant older voice answered. I made >arrangements and went over to see this gear. The radios ranged from >older tube sets to a new HF/VHF radio. I asked the ham why he didn't >want any money for the gear. He just smiled and said that he could >not use it anymore. I thought that he might be selling his house and >moving into a retirement community where they did not allow radios. >I thanked him, >packed the gear in the car and rushed home to try it out. > >My antenna farm was a tangled mess due to a number of frozen winter >storms without repair. So I fashioned a crude antenna from a hunk of >wire and stuck it to the back of one of the newer radios. I pushed >the "on" button, with the intent of just listening to some HF Ham >Stations, and was surprised what I heard. > >There were signals there all right but not the ones I had hoped to >hear. Instead the band was full of Short Wave and Data Signals. I >turned to another band and heard the same thing. This is really >weird I thought! Since this was one of those fancy newer HF/VHF >radios, I tuned down to the 2 meter and 440 bands looking for the >local repeaters. What I heard there were truck drivers and taxi cab >companies talking to their dispatchers, and even a local hotel chain >talking to their work crew about getting rooms ready. I thought to! >myself -- no wonder the guy wanted to get rid of this equipment -- >the radio only gets the scanner channels. >I'm guessing that he wanted to get rid of this radio, because he >didn't want to go to the expense of sending them back to the >manufacturers service center. > >Puzzled by what I was hearing I decided to call the old ham and ask >some information on what had caused this radio to receive the local >scanner frequencies in the ham band segment. Over the phone he >laughed out loud and said, "No those are the ham bands all right -- >or what used to be the ham bands!" "What - do you mean used to be?", >I asked back. > >He went on to tell me that several years ago the FCC had closed >those bands to hams due to inactivity by the ham community. Those >bands are now being used by land services and other business uses," >he said. "You mean all the ham bands were given away?", I asked. >"Don't be silly," he replied, " the FCC sold off those parcels of >unused bands to the highes! t bidder! They simply put out a letter >to all the hams saying that >these bands were restricted to business only. And we were to never >use these bands again under penalty of thousand of dollars in fines." > >What he told me left me dumbstruck! "So let me get this straight," I >said, "you mean that the reason you gave me this equipment is >because there are no longer bands to use it on! "Yep! he said with a >laugh, "It was simply that the FCC saw all those empty ham bands as >a gold mine of potential fundraising for the government. With no one >using the bands, and a unsupportive and ineffective ham radio lobby, >hams just literally gave those bands away to be sold off!" > >As I hung up the phone I thought of all the money I already had tied >up in ham radio equipment down in the basement. I had purchased both >old and new sets through the years and was quite proud of my ham >radio station. All that money wasted with nothing to do now, but >monitor the local Burger King asking if som! eone wanted fries with >their Whopper. > >A far fetched story? Not at all! Not a day goes by that you don't >read in the newspapers about the government selling off frequencies >to the highest bidder! A national radio communications magazine >recently had an article by a columnist saying his good byes as he >was closing his column after many years. Why? Well, he explained >that with all the different agencies going to trunking, the average >scanner listener could no longer listen to anything interesting on >the radio. That facts are time had passed and so had technology. >Suddenly he found himself with no one sending him emails about >interesting local frequencies that he could pass on to his readers. >With all the new systems out most of the old scanner units were as >useless as our old early day computers. > >There is a moral to this story of course. Anyone who has been around >the activity for a while can see the handwriting on the wall! Have >you listened to the repeaters lately,! during daytime, during drive >time, or anytime at all? Remember the days when all your friends >were on the radio just waiting to chat with you during the drive >home or after dinner? >Well, those friends are no longer on the radio anymore. > >Some have said it was because their old friends had moved to other >towns. Some said that their old friends got busy doing something >else, and no longer had the time to talk on the radio. Some blamed >it on the internet. While others decided that they just did not want >to talk to the new people they heard on radio. Everyone had an >excuse for no longer turning the radio on. Suddenly there was >silence! > >So when was the last time YOU threw out your call on the radio? When >was the last time you turned on the HF radio and enjoyed the thrill >talking to another land? I didn't say TYPING on the internet to >another land, I said TALKING on the radio to another land! When was >the last time you came to a radio club meeting, and what excuse did >y! ou have for that? >Was it because you were too busy? Was it because you were afraid you >would have to talk to "those new people" face to face? It seems that >today we all have so many excuses no longer being active on the >bands. I am sure that you have heard plenty or perhaps made up a >number of them yourself. > >Well, lets look at this another way! I remember a local AM talk >radio broadcaster suggesting that we follow the money trail. Let's >start with our side! We shelled out money for books and tapes to >learn the needed information to pass the license test. We shelled >out good money for the license, for the QSL cards, for the tower, >the antennas, the base >radio, the mobile radio, the HT's, the new keyer, club memberships >etc. Look at all the money that you have spent on this great hobby. >Count it up and you will soon discover that you have a lot of time >and money invested in this activity. > >Now lets return to the FCC looking for a way to make a buck by >selling fre! quencies. You know they really don't care how much you >personally have spent on radio hardware! They don't care how much >time you took to get that license. In fact your personal interests >are the last thing they are thinking about. They are only looking at >all those "empty" frequencies that they could sell to big business. >Remember the 220 ham segment that was sold off to United Parcel >Service a number of years ago? It will happen again -- for the right >price! > >But wait you say! How about the need for ham radio during National >Emergencies? How about 911, and the twin towers, and the terrorists >who are lurking everywhere. How about the hurricanes, the tidal >waves, the tornados and the floods? Let's be honest folks -- when >was the last time that YOU participated in any of those events? If >you haven't turned on the radio in years then isn't that just >another excuse. Ham Radio is going to run out of excuses one day and >suddenly YOU will be the one giving all your equipment away. Y! ou >may think this is all far fetched, but you would be run. Remember >that there are no guarantees that the ham bands will go on forever. >Especially if they are mostly empty and there is a buck to be made. > >Perhaps you would like to turn on the radio and check this out for >yourself? Simon and Garfunkel put out a record talking about "The >Sounds of Silence." This sound is not a good sound for YOU the ham >radio operator! This is the sound of the wolves at the door just >waiting to pounce on your ham bands! Oops - I meant to say on the >FCC frequencies that were your ham bands. > >This is a wake up call! Use them or lose them! Let me repeat that >again so it sinks in: USE THOSE BANDS NOW...OR LOSE THEM TOMORROW! > >Now is the time to dust off those radios, to throw out your call, to >join a radio club, to support the ARRL efforts in your behalf, to do >Field Day this summer and to return to the days when you made life >long friends through a great hobby. > >Or you can just! leave it the way it is now. Get that newspaper ad >ready for some poor ham who hasn't been on the radio for a long >time. It will save you leaving those boat anchors out on the curb >for the trash man! > >An editorial by Bob Fields, KC6AOH, President of the Delaware County >(PA) Amateur Radio Club 73 >Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:17:42 -0500 From: "Ken Simpson, W8EK"Subject: GB> General Radio Impedance Bridge FS For Sale: General Radio Impedance Bridge This unit has the Type 650 A Impedance bridge, along with the Type 650-P1 Oscillator-Amplifier in a beautiful wood case. This unit will measure Resistance from 1 milliohm to 1 Megaohm, 2% Capacitance from 1 pf to 100 uf, 2% accuracy Dissipation factor from 0.002 to 1 Inductance from 1 microhenry to 100 henries Storage factor from 0.02 to 1000 The ORIGINAL 26 page manual is included. The unit is in very, very nice condition, as is the manual. $100 plus shipping from Florida. Thanks. 73, Ken, W8EK Ken Simpson E-mail to W8EK@copper.net or W8EK@arrl.net Voice Phone (352) 732-8400Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:12:04 -0600 From: dzabcik@texas.net Subject: Re: GB> Current production old fashioned technologiesBarry Kirkwood wrote: > > > Morgan Plus 4: > Hard ride... I've never driven one, but I bet it was that damn pillar front suspention!Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:21:48 -0600 From: "W5JGV"Subject: GB> Semi-Glowbug Power Supply - Part II Hello everyone! As promised, Part Two of my attempt to make a big KW High Voltage switching power supply for my Heath Warrior amplifier is online at http://www.w5jgv.dyndns.org Just click on the Power Supply Update link. I think this is going to work out pretty well. At least the parts I have been burning up are a bit less expensive this time.73, Ralph W5JGV - WC2XSR/13 http://www.emachine.com Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:18:31 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: GB> Heathkit AO-1 audio oscillator manual(1958)Anyone know where to find a copy for download or got one they would email or upload to bama.edebeis.com mirror? ftp bama.edebris.com cd upload binary put filename (when done) bye Thanks, -BobDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:12:23 -0600 From: Tom NorrisSubject: Re: GB> Semi-Glowbug Power Supply - Part II Hey Ralph. Liked the article on the supply. I may have enough ferrite bar stock here to experiment at some point on that same type of project. But looking for info I ran across a commercially available 1.5 KW switcher at wattsunlimited.com. Reading along I found this hidden in the fine print - "For the pre-built unit, the PS-2500A may be customized by the user for any lower voltage by removing turns from the secondary winding of the toroid stack" so looks like it is fully customizable. It is also available as a kit, which would make it even more so. http://wattsunlimited.com/ It's not cheap, though. Tom >Hello everyone! > >As promised, Part Two of my attempt to make a big KW High Voltage >switching power supply for my Heath Warrior amplifier is online at >http://www.w5jgv.dyndns.org Just click on the Power Supply Update link. > >I think this is going to work out pretty well. At least the parts I have >been burning up are a bit less expensive this time.> >73, > >Ralph W5JGV - WC2XSR/13 > >http://www.emachine.com Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:16:52 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: GB> National NC57-B BFOI have acquired an old NC57B that is working quite well but do have a problem with the BFO stability. Any hints as to how to tame that - I looked in past postings but did not see that addressed. I presently have it paired with my T60 with a EFJ TR switch. Hints appreciated. 73 Ray "Politicians are like nappies. Both should be changed regularly -- and for the same reason" "Scotsman - Scotsman's Diary 12/97" Ray Colbert, W5XE, OOTC#3618, SOWP#1064M SOC#78 fp #111 ARCI-5784 NCT2R El Paso,(FAR WEST) TEXASDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:34:46 -0600 From: "W5JGV"Subject: RE: GB> Semi-Glowbug Power Supply - Part II > But looking for info I ran across a commercially available 1.5 KW > switcher at wattsunlimited.com. Reading along I found this hidden > in the fine print - "For the pre-built unit, the PS-2500A may be > customized by the user for any lower voltage by removing turns > from the secondary winding of the toroid stack" so looks like it > is fully customizable. It is also available as a kit, which would > make it even more so. > > http://wattsunlimited.com/ It's not cheap, though. Yep; I saw that when they came out with it. It's a very nice design. As I quickly found out, there are a lot of little details that you have to take into account in order to build something that handles that amount of power if you want it to work reliably. Things tend to vanish in a brilliant ball of flame accompanied by very loud noises and flying shrapnel if the design is not excellent! 73, Ralph W5JGV - WC2XSR/13 http://www.emachine.comDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:43:53 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> National NC57-B BFO I don't know that particular receiver, but other vintage receivers that I've worked on used ordinary paper caps in frequency-sensitive circuits - especially down at the 455 kc/s I.F. Those things can be awful when they age and dry out. Keep in mind that bypass caps in an oscillator can also affect the frequency. Something else that I've run into is a resistor drifting high - usually a dropping resistor in the B+ to the oscillator. The oscillator will work in spite of the low B+, but the voltage becomes very unstable (and usually temperature-sensitive). Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of w5xe@juno.com Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 5:17 PM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: GB> National NC57-B BFO I have acquired an old NC57B that is working quite well but do have a problem with the BFO stability. Any hints as to how to tame that - I looked in past postings but did not see that addressed. I presently have it paired with my T60 with a EFJ TR switch. Hints appreciated. 73 Ray "Politicians are like nappies. Both should be changed regularly -- and for the same reason" "Scotsman - Scotsman's Diary 12/97" Ray Colbert, W5XE, OOTC#3618, SOWP#1064M SOC#78 fp #111 ARCI-5784 NCT2R El Paso,(FAR WEST) TEXASDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:03:19 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: GB> HP-410....diode...2-01-C... Two of those diodes for sale on the bay. Item # 3803522677 Ken W7EKBDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:38:49 -0600 From: "Michael N. Hopkins"Subject: GB> Fixin' NC-57 BFOs by Radiator Cap Method. I've NC-57s here but I misplaced the manual so I reviewed an article in 73 magazine. The BFO is half a 6SL7 with 150 regulated volts on the plate and 220pf in parallel to a center tapped coil. This diagram shows it tuned by moving the BFO slug in and out a la Hallicrafter's S-40. If that's so, you might just have it too far out or in. I've two NC-57, but one is a marine, aka AC/DC and it seemed to me one of them had a cap tuned beat oscillator. But no matter. All of it is subject to the Radiator Cap Rule of auto repair: In some cases it's best to take off the radiator cap and run in another car below it. I'll not go quite that far wih the far with mine. But in that spirit, W6GXN and I suggest you replace your triode BFO with an N-channel mosfet. He swapped 150 volts for 12, added a 1K source resistor bypassed by a 0.1uf cap and tossed the 10K at the plate for a 12mh choke bypassed by 0.22uf. That's all he did. He says it works fine and it gives you a spare triode. But you probably don't need a spare triode. There are many reasons to restore a vt RX with all vacuum tubes, but performance isn't one of them. And a pristine NC-57 will be worth about as much as some other NC-57, or the S-53 I once had with only the Heptode Mixer still using a heater. It was better than the original, of course. But none of them are worth much. You can buy a restored Model T for far less than it costs to restore one. Now I do admit the vt is still a prince, if not a king in the front end. A rig with no RF stage does much better with a tube up front. The NC-57 is a closer case in that it has a 6SK7 up there. Those are noisy, but 455 superhets don't perform so well above 10mc that you'd notice. It's 6SB7 LO will be drifting along, too. Still, it is as W6GXN says in "Old Receivers--A Hidden Gold Mine," 73 Magazine, (cite lost but in the newer, large format era.) "Once one starts down the road of improvement, the options are endless, and finally one finds out that he should have started from scratch." If you consider the FET an improvement, and want to fix the HT BFO, it's the 150 volts to the plate thru a 10K and a 22K grid leak. Then, from the plate find a 0.01uf cap and from the grid a 270 pf. Those two go to a 220pf across them and, in parallel with it, the center tapped coil. W6GXN was working with an S-40 and an NC-57 in very rough condition, by the way. So perhaps he offended orthodoxy less than I will when he put in transistor audio. I'm going to do that on mine, and maybe a SS IF in one too. But I'll keep the AC-DC stock, at least as to tube lineup, 'cause it so irritates the pusilaminous upgraders when I don't use a transformer other than the one on the pole. Michael, ab5L, MNHopkins@JUNO.com, devil-may-care student of Tecraft, International Crystal, and Six Meter's Golden age: 1956-58.Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:51:43 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: Re: GB> Fixin' NC-57 BFOs by Radiator Cap Method.Thanks Mike for the hints and a lot of good info. I have had the S40, S85, S53 series receivers and I think I like the ole 57 best of all so will try to do some improvements on it as I get to them. 73 RayDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:31:21 -0600 From: "Michael N. Hopkins"Subject: GB> National HFS for S/T Just came back from where I stack my NC-57s and I found an HFS. Anyone want it? This latter day (late '40s) rig is really a tuner for 27 up to about 250mc. It has plug-in front ends and oscillators for the various slices of the coverage in a holder inside the top. A 6AK5 leads off and it ends either in a regnerative RX or in a 10.7 take off which fed my National NC-57 nicely. It fits right on top too. But I'm a Tecraft person and have more converters than my cats have fleas. So I took it to Dallas HamCom last year, with $60 on it, and drew no nibbles. That says I should E-bay it, I suppose, but I'm irresolute. I'll just take it to the central Texas Belton Hamfest next month, then to Dallas in June if it survives Belton. That said, we were talking about these recently so someone might want to trade it for something or otherwise work out a deal. It's clean but old, works but needs work, and the cover, for some reason, is gone from the bottom of the legendary 500 mark National dial. It works, however. It needs 170 or up HT and 6.3 in the back via a 4 prong jack I've mated to a 4-prong socket inside a pill bottle. Period corectness is not a goal at ab5L and I don't want to let my Eico bench supply go with the HFS (the supply is missing a bezzle anyway, collectors.) But the HFS is nice and has original manual. So let me know before late next month if you want it. Michael, MNHopkins@JUNO.comDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:34:04 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: GB> Diode tube for HP-410... See the bay. Item # 3393151013. AES wants nearly $32.00 each for these. This guy has a pair for $24.00. Ken W7EKBDate: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:48:12 -0800 From: "Hue Miller"Subject: Re: GB> OT: Interesting Ad for Free Radio Equipment ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Norris"To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 4:57 AM Subject: GB> OT: Interesting Ad for Free Radio Equipment > Lets do our best to not let THIS future come to pass.... There is something about this that kinda bothers me, though. I have long felt that if you HAVE to have revival meetings, bang the drum, get out there and exercise your RESPONSIBILITY etc. etc., your product might be some- how lacking, or at least thought of incorrectly, or positioned in the market incorrectly. Altho there is a lot of pressure on the high VHF and up, bands, i don't really see any increase in users clammoring for HF channels or even VHF. There IS a great deal of increase in distribution by means of direct connection and by UHF and microwave. Personally, i just don't see it as very attractive to get on the air with contem- porary ham radio products and exchange numbers, even with someone far away, so i will probably sit out this call for a Revival. One thing you always have to face is, TIMES CHANGE and we with them. ( Sorry, Mom, i can't recall the Latin saying you taught me.) "Ham Radio" as we knew it in the Classic Age of Radio is over, no longer cutting edge. It's now more of a niche interest. However, even in an age of jet transportation, sailplanes, homebuilts, and sailboats still exist. There's no reason to really think radio as a hobby has to die out, altho it is declining, maybe. I see from the auction prices for shortwave radios that there seems to still be a high level of interest in them. Probably a lot of this is from us who remember when we could hardly think of affording that stuff when it was new. But i really don't think it's just all old guys. There's still a lot of fun & fascinating aspects to radio & electronics. I think the issue is the best ways to get these out in the public eye, not in having any responsibility to get on the air and yak so the FCC doesn't pull the plug. My 2 cents. -Hue Miller Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:50:58 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: GB> Re: de '5L: qsl NC-57Yes, I agree. Speaking of the instability above 10 Mhz, I have a Lafayette Preselector convertor that does a nice job on 10, 15 and 20 using the receiver as a tunable IF on 80. I haven't used it with the NC57 yet but it did a great job with my BC348Q which I made the mistake of letting the local club have for auction material. A very good receiver albeit broad and never missed til it isn't here - HI! RayDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:51:21 -0800 From: "Hue Miller"Subject: GB> Looking over the Knight R-100 (again) After a while back reading a bunch of negative posts on the Knight R-100, i picked up a manual for the set. After scrutinizing the manual, i have to say i am impressed with the design -- at least its electrical design. Consider: 1 RF stage with a "good" tube, 6BZ6 antenna tune control separate oscillator and mixer ( altho probably an oscillator buffer would have been more helpful ) regulated voltage on HF oscillator 2 IF stages separately operable BFO and Q multiplier ( unlike some sets i can think of....Lafayette HE-30 and (maybe) a Hammarlund or National) printed circuit wiring filter choke in power supply Now, on the other hand, the 6AZ8 is maybe not the best tube for the IF stages. And why leave a left over triode part unused, when you could use it for the crystal calibrator? But, the weak point, as i see it: the mechanics. The dial markings look pretty crappy, and it looks like there's a minimal gear reduction for the tuning. The tuning works look at least in the photo, pretty much equivalent to the cheapest SW radios. Now, when you put out a low price kit like this, you cannot afford to have made some heavy solid castings and gear works, like some military radio or National, so you have to be a little chintzy. I was thinking if this circuit was built into some chassis with the robustness of a National product, it would be a real prizewinner, BUT-- it would easily have cost twice as much, maybe more. -Hue MillerDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:57:20 -0800 From: "Hue Miller"Subject: Re: GB> Ultimate Receiver Front End ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Trask"To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:16 PM Subject: GB> Ultimate Receiver Front End > I've been pouring over countless datasheets for all kinds of tubes that > I've never heard of before, putting together a lineup of tubes for the front > end of this project. Here's what I've come up with: > > 1. RF Amp 6EJ7 Good noise and linearity throughout the > AVC range. Actually, poring the tube manuals should maybe point out this tube for the RF: 6EH7. It is more a remote-cutoff type, better suited to RF amp. I think QST even had a kink-type article on using it, as a plug in replacement, back sometime in the late 1960s. I made up an adapter for my Lafayette KT-200 back then. Hue Miller Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:33:58 +0000 From: "Ron Barlow"Subject: GB> GB Browning freq meter Greetings! I "discovered" a Browning S-4 freq. meter, in a hidden corner of my garage, yesterday, while looking for something else. Does anyone know the freq. range that this freq. meter, is designed for? It has a switch, that appears to allow a choice of 3 different ranges. It appears to be of inferior construction, compared to the LM series freq. meters. Thanks and 73 de Ron n4gjv --------------------------------------------- This e-mail was sent using a CentralPets WebMail account Get yours at: http://mail.centralpets.comDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:13:48 -0700 From: "Chris Trask"Subject: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier An earlier posting made mention that the 6EH7 is supposedly a better choice for an RF amplifier than a 6EJ7. I evaluated the 6EH7 in my front-end lineup, and it has a slightly higher ENR than the 6EJ7. Also, the linearity is difficult to evaluate as there are no suitable curves to refer to. I'm not inclined to use tubes (or transistors, etc.) for which there is inadequate documentation and only subjective evaluations. The 6EJ7 has a higher input capacitance by just 1.0pF, but this is not of concern as that would be absorbed by the antenna (input) tuned network. Chris ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications / extinct stuff, anyhow? / \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY _ |/ Principal Engineer oo\ Sonoran Radio Research (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 \ \ / \ \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 . ( ) \ '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask c__; c__; '-..'>.__ Graphics by Loek Frederiks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Trask"To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:52 PM Subject: Re: GB> Ultimate Receiver Front End > I forgot to mention that in the evaluation of dual triodes for the > mixer, I found that the 12AV7 (18.0mA per plate, 294 ohms ENR) is 25% > quieter than the 12AT7 (11.0mA per plate, 417 ohms ENR) and is far more > linear. Those of you who are using the 12AT7 as a mixer may want to try > substituting the 12AV7 (adjust the bias) and see if there is a noticable > difference. > > The 6J6 turned out to be very noisy (8.5mA per plate, 472 ohms ENR) so > was dropped from consideration. One tube, the 6KN8 is very very quiet > (16.0mA per plate, 156 ohms ENR), but no curves were found so the linearity > could not be evaluated. The 6DJ8 and 6ES8 also had good noise (15.0mA per > plate, 200 ohms ENR), but the linearity was less than good. > > The 6BK7B that I chose has very good noise (7dB NF, 18.0mA per plate, > 269 ohms ENR) and the best linearity of those that I looked at. > > Chris > > ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and > / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications > / extinct stuff, anyhow? / > \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY > _ |/ Principal Engineer > oo\ Sonoran Radio Research > (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 > \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 > \ \ / \ > \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 > . ( ) \ > '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net > | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask > c__; c__; '-..'>.__ > > Graphics by Loek Frederiks > > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:26:52 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: GB> WTS: HP 626A SHF signal generatorThis puppy does 10kilomegacycle to 15.5kilomegacycle. Untested, looks good, $50 plus ship on approximately 30kilograms from 30114. fedex.com has rates for home delivery/ground, check 'residential' bos for rate to your house. -BobDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:29:01 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: GB> WTS: Military version of Measurements model 80At least that's what it looks like. 2Mc to a few hundred Mc The attenuator feels good, it's clean, it's not tested. $50 plus ship from 30114. Feels like about 20kg if you want to check rates. I forgot the model number and I'm at the hous eand it's in Canton. -BobDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:53:47 -0800 (PST) From: Glen ZookSubject: Re: GB> WTS: Military version of Measurements model 80 The TS-497 series is the military equivalent of the Measurements Model 80. They go up to 400 Mcs (MHz for the "modern" amateur!). I obtained 12 of them back in the 1970s and reconditioned all 12. Sold 11 of them off and still have the 12th. Works very well. You just need to use the 6 dB matching pad so that there are no problems with aligning 50 ohm receivers. Glen, K9STH --- ah7i@atl.org wrote: At least that's what it looks like. ===== Glen, K9STH Web sites http://home.comcast.net/~k9sth http://home.comcast.net/~zcomco __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.htmlDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:54:03 -0800 From: "Hue Miller"Subject: Re: GB> receiver comparison DC vs Regen I had to weigh in on the simple-project, hollowstate vs. solidstate issue. One thing that has bothered me for a long time, is that as some of you have pointed out, even seemingly simple project ideas like for d/c receivers have ended up in published projects with astronomical parts counts and complexity. It has seemed to me that maybe the ARRL was largely to blame for this; maybe they were overly concerned to show that hams are up with state of the art components and techniques. Those projects undoubtedly have their place. However, few beginners or even weekend constructors are going to be real enthusiastic about charging into a QRP d/c receiver project that's as complex as any super- het. It seems to me that after HF transistors appeared, there were a few simple projects, just a few, for ham or SWL work, and then the trend went away from any simple construction. I have saved a few solid state simple projects. I think these are worth saving for their rarity, simplicity, and usability: 2-transistor 80 meter receiver, in Electronics Illustrated 2-" VFO transmitter, same magazine. NO VFO buffer chain! No special low pass filter networks! 2-transistor, line powered ( 120 volt a.c., NO stepdown transformer! ) xtal controlled transmitter, i think also from E.I. There was also a project for a d/c receiver in one of the ARRL handbooks, that used something like 3 or 4 JFETs, in a very simple design. I gotta think that homebrewing and maybe ham radio in general, would be better off if QST and the other mags had kept up a mix of simple projects with the more complex, instead of continuously going for the technically awesome ones. In the same way, why not allow the entry-level class license to use AM on 10m, instead of SSB, which pretty much locked them into using an off-the-store-shelf rig? And why not allow the beginners 5 or 10 watts AM on 160, as is permitted in the U.K. ? Why not allow a simple operating-questions only class to use part of 10m or lower- to circumvent the tendency for unlicensed use of those frequencies? Crazy, isn't it? But NOW they are catching on..... -Hue MillerDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:59:06 -0800 From: "Hue Miller"Subject: GB> Re: Looking over the Knight R-100 (again) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arden Allen"Subject: Re: Looking over the Knight R-100 (again) > > After a while back reading a bunch of negative posts on the Knight > > R-100, i picked up a manual for the set. ........ > > I have an R100 in my heap of projects and gave the schematic a once-over and > was also impressed at how much design effort was put into such a cheaply > made radio. I guess the hope was for rave reviews. Back then kit builders > counted! I was thinking that if i had reviewed the radio "back then", i would have to give it a "10" for value for money. It also occurred to me that maybe there is enuff room in the set for adding in some kind of better vernier reduction drive. But i don't need another project. I also wonder how the magazine reviews back then rated it. The Knight R-55 has had a lot of negative-trending reviews, more like a toy. I gather this is mostly a problem of the low selectivity due to the high IF, which did deal with the image situation. A Q-multiplier at 1650 kHz, either built in or external, would take care of the selectivity. -Hue Miller Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:11:24 -0500 (EST) From: ah7i@atl.org Subject: Re: GB> WTS: Military version of Measurements model 80Yes, that's it! It's up in Canton and I couldn't remember the TS number. Thanks! -Bob On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Glen Zook wrote: > The TS-497 series is the military equivalent of the > Measurements Model 80. They go up to 400 Mcs (MHz for > the "modern" amateur!). > > I obtained 12 of them back in the 1970s and > reconditioned all 12. Sold 11 of them off and still > have the 12th. Works very well. You just need to use > the 6 dB matching pad so that there are no problems > with aligning 50 ohm receivers. > > Glen, K9STH > > > --- ah7i@atl.org wrote: > > At least that's what it looks like. > > > ===== > Glen, K9STH > > Web sites > > http://home.comcast.net/~k9sth > http://home.comcast.net/~zcomco > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html >Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:04:56 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: GB> antenna questionAre you guys willing to discuss an antenna question? It is a little off topic, but glowbug rigs do use antennas, don't they. I would post to the antenna reflector but I have lost the address. Besides, I'm convinced you guys are probably more knowlegable. Regards, Frank KampDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:14:54 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> receiver comparison DC vs Regen I agree with your thoughts Hue. Simple is good. I've followed DC receivers since the 50's when I first ran into them. They are capable of performance rivaling any conventional superheterodyne, if they are properly designed. Of course, phasing techniques are required to suppress the "other" sideband. That was pretty expensive and clumsy in the 60's, but it's a lot easier today. So, I think, like superhets, DC receivers cover the gamut from the very simple and effective to the very complex. I don't know why QST hasn't published more "simple" designs. Perhaps they didn't get any submissions from authors? I do know that, for 'sand-state' Wes Hayward's book, "Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur" has a wealth of great information about simple DC receiver designs that really work. Maybe today's Ham designers are falling into the trap that many professional engineers are stumbling into. They have these wonderful and exotic simulation software (like Spice) so they just keep plugging in parts and circuits until the device works acceptably. Often the result is a very complex circuit. But if you're having an automated machine burn and stuff the board, who cares about a few cents of parts when it saves hours of engineering time? The "art" of building simple takes a back seat to economics in that scenario, but it's in the art of building simple where many of us find the beauty in a design, sand-state or hollow-state. Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of Hue Miller Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 2:54 PM To: Glowbugs Subject: Re: GB> receiver comparison DC vs Regen I had to weigh in on the simple-project, hollowstate vs. solidstate issue. One thing that has bothered me for a long time, is that as some of you have pointed out, even seemingly simple project ideas like for d/c receivers have ended up in published projects with astronomical parts counts and complexity. It has seemed to me that maybe the ARRL was largely to blame for this; maybe they were overly concerned to show that hams are up with state of the art components and techniques. Those projects undoubtedly have their place. However, few beginners or even weekend constructors are going to be real enthusiastic about charging into a QRP d/c receiver project that's as complex as any super- het. It seems to me that after HF transistors appeared, there were a few simple projects, just a few, for ham or SWL work, and then the trend went away from any simple construction. I have saved a few solid state simple projects. I think these are worth saving for their rarity, simplicity, and usability: 2-transistor 80 meter receiver, in Electronics Illustrated 2-" VFO transmitter, same magazine. NO VFO buffer chain! No special low pass filter networks! 2-transistor, line powered ( 120 volt a.c., NO stepdown transformer! ) xtal controlled transmitter, i think also from E.I. There was also a project for a d/c receiver in one of the ARRL handbooks, that used something like 3 or 4 JFETs, in a very simple design. I gotta think that homebrewing and maybe ham radio in general, would be better off if QST and the other mags had kept up a mix of simple projects with the more complex, instead of continuously going for the technically awesome ones. In the same way, why not allow the entry-level class license to use AM on 10m, instead of SSB, which pretty much locked them into using an off-the-store-shelf rig? And why not allow the beginners 5 or 10 watts AM on 160, as is permitted in the U.K. ? Why not allow a simple operating-questions only class to use part of 10m or lower- to circumvent the tendency for unlicensed use of those frequencies? Crazy, isn't it? But NOW they are catching on..... -Hue MillerDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:53:19 -0700 From: "NR5A"Subject: Re: GB> antenna question Frank ya got to post the question for us to discuss it!! Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota ----- Original Message ----- From:To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 5:04 PM Subject: GB> antenna question > Are you guys willing to discuss an antenna question? > > It is a little off topic, but glowbug rigs do use antennas, don't they. > > I would post to the antenna reflector but I have lost the address. > Besides, I'm convinced you guys are probably more knowlegable. > > Regards, > Frank Kamp > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:06:52 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: Re: GB> antenna question You bet! Fire away! Ken W7EKB > Are you guys willing to discuss an antenna question? > > It is a little off topic, but glowbug rigs do use antennas, don't they. > > I would post to the antenna reflector but I have lost the address. > Besides, I'm convinced you guys are probably more knowlegable. > > Regards, > Frank Kamp > >Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:34:19 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_N=D8XY?=Subject: Re: GB> antenna question These guys are willing to discuss zink the Bismark. (I am still laughing on that one!) I think they would stray to antennas a bit. :-) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "NR5A"To: ; Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: Re: GB> antenna question > Frank ya got to post the question for us to discuss it!! > > Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 5:04 PM > Subject: GB> antenna question > > > > Are you guys willing to discuss an antenna question? > > > > It is a little off topic, but glowbug rigs do use antennas, don't they. > > > > I would post to the antenna reflector but I have lost the address. > > Besides, I'm convinced you guys are probably more knowlegable. > > > > Regards, > > Frank Kamp > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:03:05 +0000 From: "Ron Barlow"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier >-----Original Message----- >From: Chris Trask [mailto:christrask@earthlink.net] >Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 06:13 PM >To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu >Subject: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > > An earlier posting made mention that the 6EH7 is supposedly a better >choice for an RF amplifier than a 6EJ7. I evaluated the 6EH7 in my >front-end lineup, and it has a slightly higher ENR than the 6EJ7. Also, the >linearity is difficult to evaluate as there are no suitable curves to refer >to. I'm not inclined to use tubes (or transistors, etc.) for which there is >inadequate documentation and only subjective evaluations. > > The 6EJ7 has a higher input capacitance by just 1.0pF, but this is not >of concern as that would be absorbed by the antenna (input) tuned network. > >Chris > Hi Chris, I just dug out my RCA receiving tube manual to confirm that the 6EH7 is a semi-remote cutoff pentode, while the 6EJ7 is the sharp cutoff version. Thus, if one wished to gain control the RF stage, in question, by altering the grid bias, on the amp. stage, the 6EH7 does offer an advantage. I noticed that the 6KT6 may be a worthy candidate, for consideration, as even though it's a semi-remote cutoff bottle, has a rated transconductance of 18,000 micromhos, vs 15k, for the 6EJ7, and 12.5K, for the 6EH7. 73 de Ron n4gjv --------------------------------------------- This e-mail was sent using a CentralPets WebMail account Get yours at: http://mail.centralpets.comDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:29:06 -0600 From: "George R. Griesbach W5GRG"Subject: GB> R-100 I have my novice R-100 still, it might not have been too much , but back then I thought it was great. I got it from a friend who built kits for a hobby, did a great job. Recently I got it out, put a 3 wire cord on it and relived those days. It sure does need a better dial drive mechanism, I think I have to hold the knobs in to get it to turn. I have a manual from a R-100A if anyone needs any scans. Thank You George R. Griesbach W5GRG 505 River Oaks Rd. Comfort, Texas 78013 w5grg@comforttexas.net http://www.comforttexas.net/w5grg --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.614 / Virus Database: 393 - Release Date: 3/5/04Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:51:44 -0600 From: "W5JGV"Subject: GB> Semi-Glowbug Power Supply - Part II - revised I have added a link to a PDF file of a quick & dirty hand-drawn schematic diagram of my test setup for my KW High Voltage switching power supply. It's about 51 KB in size. The updated file is at http://www.w5jgv.dyndns.org Just click on the Power Supply Update link, and, when you get to the update page, the link for the PDF file is at the top of that page. I also corrected a couple of typos I found in the page as I was sketching the diagram. 73, Ralph W5JGV - WC2XSR/13 http://www.emachine.comDate: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:57:27 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: Re: GB> antenna question"Kenneth G. Gordon" wrote: > You bet! Fire away! > > Ken W7EKB > This afternoon I was looking up at my beam, a KLM KT-34, and wished I could get a dipole up at its 55 foot height. The beam has a 20 foot boom. As I recall the boom material is 3 inch diameter. I also recall that thick elements can be shorter. However, I doubt I could get the boom to work on a frequency lower than 15 meters. Since I already have a four element beam for that band, it would not make much sense to rig up the boom with a gamma match and turn it into a rotatable dipole for 15 meters. What I really need is a 40 meter rotatable dipole up at 55 feet. Then why stop there? Use a delta match, feed it with open wire line, use an antenna tuner and end up with a multiband rotatable dipole to cover 30 meters as well. Trouble is, 20 feet of radiator is probably not going to do well on 40 meters. I could add loading coils to the ends, extensions to the boom (maybe a couple of ten foot whips off each end), some capacity hats might come in handy too. It is probably going to take one heck of a pair of loading coils to do any good at the existing boom ends. Hmm... half wave on 30 meters is only a little more than 45 feet. 20 feet of thick boom along with 10 feet of whip at each end might just get me into the ballpark for 30 meters. The question is, have any of you seen this done, or done it? Regards, Frank Kamp K5DKZDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:39:40 -0000 From: "Barry Kirkwood"Subject: Re: GB> antenna question Hi Frank: There has been material on this on the Tower Talk reflector. Short answer is that it is feasible to run the boom of a beam as a dipole for a lower frequency. A complicating factor is the influence of the beam elements. I understand that the KLM has elements insulated from the boom which simplifiies things. I would not recommend the Gamma Match, but others will diagree. As a first fix: Take a wire to each end of the boom, raise it a few feet above or below the boom. You now have the boom configured as a folded dipole. Split the new wire at its centre and grid dip it. You now know the natural resonance of the boom. It will likely be much higher than 10/7 mHz. Options: 1. Make light extensions at each end of the boom to resonate on one band or the other. Measure the impedance at the feedpoint (see above) and make broadband transformer to match, or make mini antenna tuner to match. New coax to tx. 2. As above, but add loading coils or helically wind wire on fibreglass fish poles if you want to reduce wingspan. 3. For two band operation: Make two slightly veed extensions at each end adjust loding coils so they resonate on 7 and 10. or: 4. Make new dipole above to resonate between 7/10 (around 8.6 mHz good choice). At feedpoint connect a variable L and a variable C, fiddle the L to get on 7, the C to hit 10. Feed via 450 line and ATU at TX, or link couple to L and fiddle with series C in link to get best match on the preferred band, use coax and ATU (line flattener) at TX to match the other band. 73 Barry end Barry Kirkwood PhD ZL1DD Signal Hill Homestay 66 Cory Road Palm Beach Waiheke Island 1240 NEW ZEALAND ph/fax 64-9-372-5161 www.waiheke.co.nz/signal.htm ----- Original Message ----- From:To: "Kenneth G. Gordon" Cc: "Old Tube Radios" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:57 AM Subject: Re: GB> antenna question > > > "Kenneth G. Gordon" wrote: > > > You bet! Fire away! > > > > Ken W7EKB > > > > This afternoon I was looking up at my beam, a KLM KT-34, and wished I could > get a dipole up at its 55 foot height. > > The beam has a 20 foot boom. As I recall the boom material is 3 inch > diameter. I also recall that thick elements can be shorter. However, I > doubt I could get the boom to work on a frequency lower than 15 meters. > Since I already have a four element beam for that band, it would not make > much sense to rig up the boom with a gamma match and turn it into a rotatable > dipole for 15 meters. > > What I really need is a 40 meter rotatable dipole up at 55 feet. Then why > stop there? Use a delta match, feed it with open wire line, use an antenna > tuner and end up with a multiband rotatable dipole to cover 30 meters as > well. > > Trouble is, 20 feet of radiator is probably not going to do well on 40 > meters. I could add loading coils to the ends, extensions to the boom (maybe > a couple of ten foot whips off each end), some capacity hats might come in > handy too. It is probably going to take one heck of a pair of loading coils > to do any good at the existing boom ends. > > Hmm... half wave on 30 meters is only a little more than 45 feet. 20 feet of > thick boom along with 10 feet of whip at each end might just get me into the > ballpark for 30 meters. > > The question is, have any of you seen this done, or done it? > > Regards, > Frank Kamp > K5DKZ > > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:05:43 -0800 From: "Kenneth G. Gordon"Subject: Re: GB> antenna question...the "Long-Tailed Quad"... Frank Kamp wrote:> The question is, have any of you seen this done, or done it? Yes, I have seen it done. W7GKF, Bill Waters, when he lived in Missoula, Montana did this with a multi-element (5 elements on 20, IIRC) quad up about 100 feet. This was about 40 years ago. I think his was built using ideas from an article in either QST or Ham Radio entitled "The Long-tailed Quad". I remember the "tails" on each end. As I remember it, it took him MANY days of tweaking and tuning before he got the thing to work correctly on all bands. Bill is still an active ham and lives in California now. He was a chemistry professor and had one of the most delightful senses of humor I had ever seen. He also loved CW, and can still be heard once in a while on 40 meters operating CW mobile. I am sure that if he were asked, he would be most eager to help. I'll see if I can get hold of him. I really should talk with him anyway. Ken W7EKB Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:43:33 -0800 From: "Hue Miller"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Barlow"To: "Chris Trask" >-----Original Message----- > >From: Chris Trask [mailto:christrask@earthlink.net] > > An earlier posting made mention that the 6EH7 is supposedly a better > >choice for an RF amplifier than a 6EJ7. > >Chris > Hi Chris, > I just dug out my RCA receiving tube manual to confirm that the 6EH7 > is a semi-remote cutoff pentode, while the 6EJ7 is the sharp cutoff version. Thus, if one wished to gain control the RF stage, in question, > by altering the grid bias, on the amp. stage, the 6EH7 does offer an advantage. > I noticed that the 6KT6 may be a worthy candidate, for consideration, > as even though it's a semi-remote cutoff bottle, has a rated transconductance of 18,000 micromhos, vs 15k, for the 6EJ7, and 12.5K, for the 6EH7. > 73 de Ron n4gjv This is of course, the reason the QST article suggested the 6EH7 for RF amp use and the 6EJ7 for mixer use. It worked very well as a preamp for my receiver. It occurred to me recently that it might be fun to use this for the amplifying device in an active antenna. Now here's something that puzzles me: years ago i was given an unwanted TV antenna distribution amp. It had several 6EJ7's in it, if i now recall correctly, which surprised and puzzled me at the time, and still does, as the -EJ7 is the sharp cutoff one. BTW, didn't the Mackay 3010 receiver use a frame grid pentode as the RF amp? -Hue Miller Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 01:55:56 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_N=D8XY?=Subject: GB> Strange signal on 40 It's 0748Z March 22. I am on 7.039 and hearing the wierdest signal. it repeats a K 5 times, then a V, then 5 K's and a V. The interspersed V's follow some pattern, and for a while will only have 4 K's in between. I listened for a while and found some intervals of 7 and 6 k's. OH! now it is a D instead of the V. There was a B also. I have been listening for 8 minutes now. This is making me crazy. I am tuning away to see if I can find Alaska or Hawaii, which is why I came down here in the first place. Goes on and on, very weak at my qth. Anyone else ever hear this? MichaelDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:02:45 -0700 From: "Chris Trask"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier Hue, Could you copy that QST article and send it to me? I'd like to see the application and read the comments. Chris ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications / extinct stuff, anyhow? / \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY _ |/ Principal Engineer oo\ Sonoran Radio Research (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 \ \ / \ \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 . ( ) \ '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask c__; c__; '-..'>.__ Graphics by Loek Frederiks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hue Miller"To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:43 PM Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Barlow" > To: "Chris Trask" > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Chris Trask [mailto:christrask@earthlink.net] > > > An earlier posting made mention that the 6EH7 is supposedly a better > > >choice for an RF amplifier than a 6EJ7. > > >Chris > > > Hi Chris, > > I just dug out my RCA receiving tube manual to confirm that the 6EH7 > > is a semi-remote cutoff pentode, while the 6EJ7 is the sharp cutoff version. Thus, if one wished > to gain control the RF stage, in question, > > by altering the grid bias, on the amp. stage, the 6EH7 does offer an advantage. > > I noticed that the 6KT6 may be a worthy candidate, for consideration, > > as even though it's a semi-remote cutoff bottle, has a rated transconductance of 18,000 micromhos, > vs 15k, for the 6EJ7, and 12.5K, for the 6EH7. > > 73 de Ron n4gjv > > This is of course, the reason the QST article suggested the 6EH7 for RF amp use and the > 6EJ7 for mixer use. It worked very well as a preamp for my receiver. It occurred to me > recently that it might be fun to use this for the amplifying device in an active antenna. > > Now here's something that puzzles me: years ago i was given an unwanted TV antenna > distribution amp. It had several 6EJ7's in it, if i now recall correctly, which surprised and > puzzled me at the time, and still does, as the -EJ7 is the sharp cutoff one. > > BTW, didn't the Mackay 3010 receiver use a frame grid pentode as the RF amp? > -Hue Miller Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:11:50 -0700 From: "Chris Trask"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier Yes, it looks like it would be worth considering. Very low plate resistance. Chris ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications / extinct stuff, anyhow? / \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY _ |/ Principal Engineer oo\ Sonoran Radio Research (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 \ \ / \ \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 . ( ) \ '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask c__; c__; '-..'>.__ Graphics by Loek Frederiks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Barlow"To: "Chris Trask" ; Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:03 PM Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Chris Trask [mailto:christrask@earthlink.net] > >Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 06:13 PM > >To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu > >Subject: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > > > > An earlier posting made mention that the 6EH7 is supposedly a better > >choice for an RF amplifier than a 6EJ7. I evaluated the 6EH7 in my > >front-end lineup, and it has a slightly higher ENR than the 6EJ7. Also, the > >linearity is difficult to evaluate as there are no suitable curves to refer > >to. I'm not inclined to use tubes (or transistors, etc.) for which there is > >inadequate documentation and only subjective evaluations. > > > > The 6EJ7 has a higher input capacitance by just 1.0pF, but this is not > >of concern as that would be absorbed by the antenna (input) tuned network. > > > >Chris > > > Hi Chris, > I just dug out my RCA receiving tube manual to confirm that the 6EH7 > is a semi-remote cutoff pentode, while the 6EJ7 is the sharp cutoff version. Thus, if one wished to gain control the RF stage, in question, > by altering the grid bias, on the amp. stage, the 6EH7 does offer an advantage. > I noticed that the 6KT6 may be a worthy candidate, for consideration, > as even though it's a semi-remote cutoff bottle, has a rated transconductance of 18,000 micromhos, vs 15k, for the 6EJ7, and 12.5K, for the 6EH7. > 73 de Ron n4gjv > > --------------------------------------------- > This e-mail was sent using a CentralPets WebMail account > Get yours at: http://mail.centralpets.com > > > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:18:42 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: Re: GB> antenna questionBarry Kirkwood wrote: > Hi Frank: > There has been material on this on the Tower Talk reflector. > Short answer is that it is feasible to run the boom of a beam as a dipole > for a lower frequency. > A complicating factor is the influence of the beam elements. > I understand that the KLM has elements insulated from the boom which > simplifiies things. > I would not recommend the Gamma Match, but others will diagree. > As a first fix: > Take a wire to each end of the boom, raise it a few feet above or below the > boom. > You now have the boom configured as a folded dipole. > Split the new wire at its centre and grid dip it. > You now know the natural resonance of the boom. > It will likely be much higher than 10/7 mHz. > Options: > 1. Make light extensions at each end of the boom to resonate on one band or > the other. > Measure the impedance at the feedpoint (see above) and make broadband > transformer to match, or make mini antenna tuner to match. New coax to tx. > 2. As above, but add loading coils or helically wind wire on fibreglass fish > poles if you want to reduce wingspan. > 3. For two band operation: Make two slightly veed extensions at each end > adjust loding coils so they resonate on 7 and 10. or: > 4. Make new dipole above to resonate between 7/10 (around 8.6 mHz good > choice). At feedpoint connect a variable L and a variable C, fiddle the L to > get on 7, the C to hit 10. Feed via 450 line and ATU at TX, or link couple > to L and fiddle with series C in link to get best match on the preferred > band, use coax and ATU (line flattener) at TX to match the other band. Looks like I just found my first antenna project of the season. The folded dipole scheme seems the way to go and I can still leave the boom grounded to the mast at the center. I already use the mast and beam as a shunt loaded vertical on 75 meters. If I can get the boom to work, even if only on 30meters, I will be happy. Then I can continue to use the delta loop on 40 meters and probably take down my all band inverted-vee. I will probably go with open wire line and use a tuner. Or maybe use window line to ease the twist in the feedline while rotating the beam. Six bands plus on a single mast and beam. A fairly clean installation that does not look like a rats nest of wire. I should have done this a long time ago. Regards, Frank KampDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:02:53 -0800 (PST) From: Glen ZookSubject: Re: GB> Strange signal on 40 There are all sorts of these signals on various frequencies ranging from amateur to commercial to wherever. They are generally thought to be some sort of "spook" ("spy"), but that may, or may not, be the actual purpose of their existance. The 30 meter band usually has a number of these in operation at any one time. Frankly, they are a "fact of life" and most amateur radio operators just ignore them. Sometimes, if you transmit near their frequency they will move and sometimes not. Many of these seem to be completely automated (not just automatic transmissions) and move from frequency to frequency on a predetermined schedule. Glen, K9STH --- Michael_NØXYwrote: I am on 7.039 and hearing the wierdest signal. it repeats a K 5 times,.... Anyone else ever hear this? ===== Glen, K9STH Web sites http://home.comcast.net/~k9sth http://home.comcast.net/~zcomco __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:13:34 -0800 (PST) From: ClaudeSubject: GB> antenna question.... Hi Frank, I have one thought..... AS you connect wires to your mast, or boom, do so with clamps.... Do not drill into the mast or boom for as that will cause a weak point, that ice or wind will love..... You may never have a problem with a weak point, but if you did, it could be a big problem.... Just a thought as you undertake the project.... Claude..... WB4WHH __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.htmlDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:07:08 -0500 From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier Dear amigo: Maybe you will like to see the specifications of the European vacuum tubes EF183 and EF184. I remember that Rhode and Schawartz used them in one of their outstanding laboratory radio receivers. 73and DX Arnie Coro CO2KK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Trask"To: "Hue Miller" ; Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > Hue, > Could you copy that QST article and send it to me? I'd like to see the > application and read the comments. > > Chris > > ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and > / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications > / extinct stuff, anyhow? / > \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY > _ |/ Principal Engineer > oo\ Sonoran Radio Research > (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 > \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 > \ \ / \ > \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 > . ( ) \ > '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net > | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask > c__; c__; '-..'>.__ > > Graphics by Loek Frederiks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hue Miller" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:43 PM > Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron Barlow" > > To: "Chris Trask" > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Chris Trask [mailto:christrask@earthlink.net] > > > > An earlier posting made mention that the 6EH7 is supposedly a > better > > > >choice for an RF amplifier than a 6EJ7. > > > >Chris > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > I just dug out my RCA receiving tube manual to confirm that the 6EH7 > > > is a semi-remote cutoff pentode, while the 6EJ7 is the sharp cutoff > version. Thus, if one wished > > to gain control the RF stage, in question, > > > by altering the grid bias, on the amp. stage, the 6EH7 does offer an > advantage. > > > I noticed that the 6KT6 may be a worthy candidate, for consideration, > > > as even though it's a semi-remote cutoff bottle, has a rated > transconductance of 18,000 micromhos, > > vs 15k, for the 6EJ7, and 12.5K, for the 6EH7. > > > 73 de Ron n4gjv > > > > This is of course, the reason the QST article suggested the 6EH7 for RF > amp use and the > > 6EJ7 for mixer use. It worked very well as a preamp for my receiver. It > occurred to me > > recently that it might be fun to use this for the amplifying device in an > active antenna. > > > > Now here's something that puzzles me: years ago i was given an unwanted TV > antenna > > distribution amp. It had several 6EJ7's in it, if i now recall correctly, > which surprised and > > puzzled me at the time, and still does, as the -EJ7 is the sharp cutoff > one. > > > > BTW, didn't the Mackay 3010 receiver use a frame grid pentode as the RF > amp? > > -Hue Miller > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:44:21 -0500 From:Subject: GB> The "Cutting Edge" Back, fresh after giving a double concert fri & sat. Home on Sunday, and the ol mail box is jammed and i am still going thru it. First i wanted to say Yo! Vincent motorcyles! What i wouldn't give even for the Pre Vincent HRDs. Now, off to other old technologies and the looming demise of Ham Radio. Hue's comments got me to thinking, especially the phrase "cutting edge", and i agree, ham radio in the classic sense is really no longer squarely on the cutting edge, and the "niche" factor is firmly entrenched. And yet . . . . I had a chat with a welcome visitor, Hiram, just the other day. Between false lights of "the ol' pipe" and fatherly reminiscences of other "young squirts" like me who have "ideas without handles", he said something i have not quite forgotten. Hiram does not ken the use of such phrases as "cutting edge", so may i take the liberty of paraphasing for him? I know he would hate that. Sorry, Mr. H. . . . "Cutting Edge" is where you find it. And usually you find it where you last put it. " I'm a big one for moaning that all the excitement already happened. I call it "George Eastman Syndrome". George gave us acetate film and the first "everyman's" camera. George founded the largest camera operation on earth, Kodak. He put a bullet in his own head because, as he wrote, there just were no more challenges to take on! He just could not see beyond his own proboscis. I read about how Ham Radio lost that pioneer "frontier" ( hmm, sounds like cutting edge to me ) in the QST's "Correspondence from Members" of the early 1960s. All the while this little guy called "Oscar" was bleeping "HI" all over the ether. Ironic. I remember moaning about how i wish i was born around 1900, so i could get in on the ground floor. Hiram would say "ground floor of what? Squirt, we're ALWAYS on the ground floor! " I bemoaned the reduction of tube use while 73 and CQ magazing was spitting out some of the first BASIC algorithms written by hams to replace the old satelite tracking protractors, animations on 286 DOS systems that would not only compute but animate video representations of apogee and perigee. Slow scan was shifting over from the Robot 48 line scans on phosphor tubes to VDTs. I wasn't looking, i was busy wishing i was on the cutting edge when Grammar and Lamb was busting loose with innovations. While i was wishing i had an old Klineschmidt, Ascii communication modes, Packet Radio, PSK was "happening" Aww, but it wasn't the same thing, i complained. "That stuff all comes from the engineers and the military and Nasa these days, the days of kitchen table 'cutting edge' is finito. Done. Over!" "Cutting Edge, Hmphh!" snorted The Old Man as he re-lit the last embers of his cavendish. "Seems to me you have so many cutting edges you need to carry a styptic pencil! " I noticed that he had a 1999 ARRL Handbook face down in his lap, opened right about where Digital Signal Processing was being explained. "Hiram, that's not very cutting edge these days, either." i said, sounding like Rocky the Squirrel. "Son, you don't understand what a "frontier" is. Our forefathers were not pioneers because each one necessarily hacked the furthest tree in the woods, or put up the outermost stockade. They were pioneers because they chose to live in that place. "-- and well he knows, his own lineage looks to the Mayflower for arrival -- "Hams are not pioneers because they necessarily push back the frontiers, either. But they choose to dwell there. They take it in their own hands and do with it as propriety and necessity demands! They can be called 'pioneers' because they choose to live there. And don't you think MacMillan was every bit the pioneer "cutting edge" character with all his newfangled radios and airdrops and electric generators and medicines when he bit into the frozen arctic with "QP" as any Mayflower passenger or spanish swashbuckler? " Hiram sat back in my easy chair once more and looked at the crown molding above the entertainment center in my living room. I think he was looking at something far more distant. " I made an electric car once. In fact i was responsible for quite a few of 'em around Hartford. They call me an automotive pioneer, but son, i didn't invent them! In fact, i didn't really do much in the way of developing them. But i did *traffic* in them." - he waited for a laugh and got rolled eyes instead.- "I DID race 'em, i might add! Way before traffic lights!" "You have a bunch of undone projects out there in that catastrophe you call a radio "shack"! Much as i wish you'd finish them, i admire the fact that you boys are lighting the old torch and melting solder. Sure, you might be using circuits ages old, but you ARE USING them, innovatively, using the ol' noggin. Learning new ways to apply them. Improving on the mistakes of us ol' "pioneers". Your work with our "old ideas" make them worthwhile. Never forget that. It's not the 'inventor' that creates the so-called 'cutting edge', but those who give those inventions feet and hands". The Old Man went back a'staring a hole in that crown moulding. The frontier, the cutting edge is where you find it. And you find it usually at the intersection of Passion and Talent. And you never know just where the next "Cutting Edge" might crop up. From what Hiram says, you might be on one . . . . . . right now! Carry that styptic pencil. So join me, with Hiram, in our optimism regarding not only ham radion, but it's traditions, but also it's relevance. Cutting edges are still to be found, i am very sure. gary // wd4nka ReformSchool Music LTD ( very limited. ) ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Caveat: don't hold anything written above as absolutely factual unless you know it to be so, or have done your own homework. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:56:22 -0500 From: "Brian Carling"Subject: GB> FS: 21 Panel Meters $2-12 For sale - 21 Panel Meters. 2) Triplett 0-5mA DC meter - round type. Slightly cracked glass. 3-1/2" diameter. Needs approx. 2-3/4" hole. Available for $3.00 plus shipping 3) Weston 0-1.5 mA DC meter - excellent. Dimensions - 3-1/4" diameter. Needs approx. 2-1/2" hole. Available for $3.00 plus shipping 4) Weston 0-100 mA DC meter. Round type. Dimensions 3-1/4" diameter. Needs approx. 2-1/2" hole. Available for $6.00 plus shipping 5) Military surplus 0-200 mA DC meter. Dimensions - 4" diameter. Needs approx. 2-1/2" hole. Available for $3.00 plus shipping 6) Westinghouse 0-500V DC meter. Type RX-35 Dimensions - 3" square face. Needs approx. 2-3/4" diameter hole. Available for $8.00 plus shipping 7) Westinghouse 0 - +/- 3V DC Center zero meter. Type SX-33 protruding design for surface mount. Slightly cracked glass. Dimensions 2-1/2" diameter. Available for $2.00 plus shipping 8) Westinghouse 0 - 2500 V DC meter. FSD = 0.001A. Dimensions - 3-1/2" diameter. Needs approx. 2-3/4" diameter hole. Available for $10.00 plus shipping 10) Surplus vertical edgewise meter 0-2500V DC. Has 2 mA movement. There is a shunt resistor attached. Dimensions 2-3/4" X 1". Needs approx. 2" X 3/4" hole. Available for $5.00 plus shipping 11) Phastron +/- 5 mA DC meter with center zero. Chrome trim - extra nice looking. Face dimensions - 4-5/8" X 4-1/4". Needs approx. 2-3/4" diameter. hole. Available for $5.00 plus shipping 12) Aircraft meter. Reads plus and minus 20 degrees with 1 degree scale markings. Center zero. Dimensions - 2-3/8" square. Needs approx. 2-1/8" diameter hole. Available for $2.00 plus shipping 13) Stromberg-Carlson VU Meter! Typical markings form minus infinity to +3dB. Dimensions - 3" square face. Needs approx. 2-3/4" diameter hole. Available for $12.00 plus shipping 14) Surplus 0-100 mA DC meter. 2-5/8" diameter face. Needs approx. 2-1/4" diameter hole. Available for $4.00 plus shipping 16) Burlington 0-1 mA DC square meter. Dimensions - 3" square. Needs approx. 2-3/4" diameter hole. Loose inside and may be sticking. Available for $4.00 plus shipping 17) Weston 0- 200 uA meter. Model 301. Dimensions - 3" square. Needs approx. 2-3/8" diameter hole. Has two scales with markings for 0 - 3 and 0-15. Available for $4.00 plus shipping 18) General Electric 0-500V DC meter. Model VNW19-2. 1000 ohms per volt. Comes with a shunt. Dimensions - 3-1/2" diameter. Needs approx. 2-3/4" hole. Available for $10.00 plus shipping 19) Westinghouse Filament Meter 0 - 7.5 V AC. Very sharp. Dimensions - 3-1/2" diameter. Needs approx. 2-3/4" diameter hole. Available for $10.00 plus shipping 21) Burlington VU meter. Great for audio applications. Has the typical scale from minus infinity to + 3dB. Dimensions 3" square. Needs approx. 2-3/4" diameter hole. Available for $8.00 plus shipping 22) Small Surplus VU meter - New, old stock - never used. DeJUA brand - military style VU meter. Dimensions - 1-3/4" square. Needs approx. 1-1/2" diameter hole. Available for $8.00 plus shipping 23) Edgewise vertical reading 0 - +/- 50 uA meter. Center zero with scale markings for 50 - 0 - 50 uA. Dimensions 1-3/4" X 3/4" QTY 2 available for $2.00 each plus shipping 24) Westinghouse Filament Meter 0-10. Not sure if this scale is for volts or amps. Dimensions: 4" square with rounded corners. Needs approx. 3-3/4" diameter hole. Available for $6.00 plus shipping Reply by E-mail or visit: http://www.af4k.com/meters.htmDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:57:30 -0500 From: "Brian Carling"Subject: GB> WTD: Tube Tester Hey guys - our friend Karl, WA2KBZ has been having trouble accessing the list from his new e-mail address and needs our help for a friend of his: Passing this along guys, a friend of Karl's is looking for a good tube tester. I have already sold the two that I had. If you know of a nice tube tester for sale, please contact Karl at: wa2kbzKarl@wmconnect.com His new e-mail address has not worked for subscribing to the list yet! Please ONLY reply to Karl directly at: wa2kbzKarl@wmconnect.com 73s - BrianDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:59:27 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: Re: GB> Strange signal on 40They are called Single Letter Beacons, operated by the Russian Navy. The K beacon is Kharbarovsk and there are a whole bunch of them - this frequently asked question comes up on the qrp list and I have sent out the info numerous times. The other letters represent different locations. K7QO has a very good reference at his website and the info about the SLB is below - they are very good for helping with propagation: -------------- Additional listings from the WUN list - some of which are not on the listing from the K7QO site: ::: Known locations of channel markers and cluster beacons. B - Arkhangelsk C - Moscow D - Odessa F - possibly Gdynia (not to be confused with the Vladivostok beacon) F - Vladivostok K - Petropavlovsk Kamchatskiy L - St. Petersburg M - Magadan O - Moscow P - Kaliningrad R - Izhevsk S - Arkhangelsk V - Khiva W - Cuba (a new European based 'W' popped up recently) X - Prague Yu - Kizyl Orda Z - Mulachevo PIP - Rostov-Volgograd area BUZZER - Moscow area --------------------------------- Russian Beacons - K7QO listing ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 40M Beacons heard around 7.039MHz The V-beacon heard around 7.002MHz No data known on power levels are antenna patterns at this time. C - Moscow, European Russia 37.58E 55.75N (in degrees) D - Odessa, Ukraine 30.70E 46.48N F - Vladivostok, Asiatic Russia 131.85E 43.14N K - Khabarovsk, Asiatic Russia 135.10E 48.50N L - St Petersburg, Eur. Russia 30.33E 59.92N M - Magadan, Asiatic Russia 150.83E 59.63N O - Moscow, European Russia 37.58E 55.75N P - Kaliningrad, Eur. Russia 20.50E 54.72N R - Ustinov, S - Archangel, Eur. Russia 41.00E 64.66N U - Murmansk, Eur. Russia 33.08E 68.97N V - Tashkent, X - Prague, Czech Republic 14.43E 50.08N yu- Kholmsk, Asiatic Russia 142.08E 47.66N **** yu is dididahdah **** Here are some distances in miles from the beacons to the city indicated and number in parenthesis is beam heading in degrees: Beacon Seattle,WA San Fran.,CA Phoenix,AZ Dallas,TX C 5,198 (11) 5,864 (11) 6,015 (16) 5,752 (23) D 5,731 (18) 6,377 (18) 6,443 (24) 6,055 (33) F 4,711 (310) 5,163 (313) 5,781 (318) 6,353 (326) K 4,341 (313) 4,818 (316) 5,424 (321) 5,969 (328) L 4,846 (14) 5,507 (13) 5,636 (18) 5,360 (24) M 3,383 (318) 3,904 (322) 4,484 (326) 4,986 (330) P 5,039 (21) 5,675 (20) 5,723 (25) 5,339 (31) S 4,625 (7) 5,298 (7) 5,499 (11) 5,325 (17) U 4,281 (9) 4,952 (9) 5,138 (12) 4,959 (16) X 5,209 (27) 5,819 (26) 5,801 (31) 5,337 (37) u 4,135 (309) 4,578 (312) 5,198 (317) 5,788 (324) Beacon Denver,CO Chicago,IL Buffalo,NY Atlanta,GA Anchorage,AK O 5,479 (20) 4,969 (28) 4,677 (32) 5,371 (29) 4,342 (355) D 5,879 (28) 5,254 (38) 4,907 (43) 5,578 (39) 4,992 (359) F 5,697 (321) 6,068 (332) 6,191 (338) 6,648 (334) 3,305 (285) K 5,317 (323) 5,669 (332) 5,789 (338) 6,250 (335) 2,924 (288) L 5,095 (21) 4,577 (28) 4,287 (32) 4,982 (28) 4,064 (270) M 4,339 (326) 4,677 (332) 4,809 (335) 5,257 (334) 1,953 (293) O 5,479 (20) 4,969 (28) 4,677 (32) 5,371 (29) 4,342 (355) P 5,157 (29) 4,540 (37) 4,204 (40) 4,883 (36) 4,406 (6) S 4,988 (14) 4,569 (21) 4,328 (24) 5,025 (21) 3,718 (354) U 4,623 (15) 4,206 (20) 3,972 (23) 4,668 (20) 3,438 (358) X 5,223 (35) 4,536 (43) 4,166 (47) 4,824 (42) 4,694 (10) u 5,129 (319) 5,543 (328) 5,697 (333) 6,115 (330) 2,742 (282) We have been getting more reports from AK than anywhere else in the USofA and some people in Central Europe have reported hearing some of the beacons all during daylight hours, which makes sense. Hope this information is of use to the QRP community. Any errors are the result of this authors typing skills and will be corrected and posted as needed. =============================== 73 Ray "Politicians are like nappies. Both should be changed regularly -- and for the same reason" "Scotsman - Scotsman's Diary 12/97" Ray Colbert, W5XE, OOTC#3618, SOWP#1064M SOC#78 fp #111 ARCI-5784 NCT2R El Paso,(FAR WEST) TEXASDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:21:11 -0500 From: "Merz Donald S"Subject: RE: GB> The "Cutting Edge" About 25 years ago, a guy I knew decided to get out of his motorcycles. Among others, he had a gorgeous original Vincent in ride-able condition and the big Arial (sp?) square four that looked great but had engine trouble (those rear cylinders never got enough cooling...). I could have owned them both for $1,500. But I was recently married and headed off to grad school and could not swing it. Egad... Other deals I missed: When I lived in Miami in 1974, the local cycle shop mechanic guru offered me two 196? Marusho Japanese BMW copies in great condition for $500. But I was broke... Later, in Georgia, one of my best friends who hardly ever got out riding was selling his Laverda 750 for just $500. It was perfect and original and had 2,400 miles on it. But I was still broke... He later traded it in on a Moto Guzzi and was killed driving the Guzzi. If I'd have had a little more money I could have saved his life. He died in intensive care exactly one month to the day after his wedding day. I have never experienced anything as devastating as that before or since. Shortly thereafter I got out of motorcycles for good. 73, Don Merz, N3RHT -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu]On Behalf Of reformschool@juno.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:44 AM To: glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Cc: FLBOATANCHORS@yahoogroups.com Subject: GB> The "Cutting Edge" Back, fresh after giving a double concert fri & sat. Home on Sunday, and the ol mail box is jammed and i am still going thru it. First i wanted to say Yo! Vincent motorcyles! What i wouldn't give even for the Pre Vincent HRDs. Now, off to other old technologies and the looming demise of Ham Radio. Hue's comments got me to thinking, especially the phrase "cutting edge", and i agree, ham radio in the classic sense is really no longer squarely on the cutting edge, and the "niche" factor is firmly entrenched. And yet . . . . I had a chat with a welcome visitor, Hiram, just the other day. Between false lights of "the ol' pipe" and fatherly reminiscences of other "young squirts" like me who have "ideas without handles", he said something i have not quite forgotten. Hiram does not ken the use of such phrases as "cutting edge", so may i take the liberty of paraphasing for him? I know he would hate that. Sorry, Mr. H. . . . "Cutting Edge" is where you find it. And usually you find it where you last put it. " I'm a big one for moaning that all the excitement already happened. I call it "George Eastman Syndrome". George gave us acetate film and the first "everyman's" camera. George founded the largest camera operation on earth, Kodak. He put a bullet in his own head because, as he wrote, there just were no more challenges to take on! He just could not see beyond his own proboscis. I read about how Ham Radio lost that pioneer "frontier" ( hmm, sounds like cutting edge to me ) in the QST's "Correspondence from Members" of the early 1960s. All the while this little guy called "Oscar" was bleeping "HI" all over the ether. Ironic. I remember moaning about how i wish i was born around 1900, so i could get in on the ground floor. Hiram would say "ground floor of what? Squirt, we're ALWAYS on the ground floor! " I bemoaned the reduction of tube use while 73 and CQ magazing was spitting out some of the first BASIC algorithms written by hams to replace the old satelite tracking protractors, animations on 286 DOS systems that would not only compute but animate video representations of apogee and perigee. Slow scan was shifting over from the Robot 48 line scans on phosphor tubes to VDTs. I wasn't looking, i was busy wishing i was on the cutting edge when Grammar and Lamb was busting loose with innovations. While i was wishing i had an old Klineschmidt, Ascii communication modes, Packet Radio, PSK was "happening" Aww, but it wasn't the same thing, i complained. "That stuff all comes from the engineers and the military and Nasa these days, the days of kitchen table 'cutting edge' is finito. Done. Over!" "Cutting Edge, Hmphh!" snorted The Old Man as he re-lit the last embers of his cavendish. "Seems to me you have so many cutting edges you need to carry a styptic pencil! " I noticed that he had a 1999 ARRL Handbook face down in his lap, opened right about where Digital Signal Processing was being explained. "Hiram, that's not very cutting edge these days, either." i said, sounding like Rocky the Squirrel. "Son, you don't understand what a "frontier" is. Our forefathers were not pioneers because each one necessarily hacked the furthest tree in the woods, or put up the outermost stockade. They were pioneers because they chose to live in that place. "-- and well he knows, his own lineage looks to the Mayflower for arrival -- "Hams are not pioneers because they necessarily push back the frontiers, either. But they choose to dwell there. They take it in their own hands and do with it as propriety and necessity demands! They can be called 'pioneers' because they choose to live there. And don't you think MacMillan was every bit the pioneer "cutting edge" character with all his newfangled radios and airdrops and electric generators and medicines when he bit into the frozen arctic with "QP" as any Mayflower passenger or spanish swashbuckler? " Hiram sat back in my easy chair once more and looked at the crown molding above the entertainment center in my living room. I think he was looking at something far more distant. " I made an electric car once. In fact i was responsible for quite a few of 'em around Hartford. They call me an automotive pioneer, but son, i didn't invent them! In fact, i didn't really do much in the way of developing them. But i did *traffic* in them." - he waited for a laugh and got rolled eyes instead.- "I DID race 'em, i might add! Way before traffic lights!" "You have a bunch of undone projects out there in that catastrophe you call a radio "shack"! Much as i wish you'd finish them, i admire the fact that you boys are lighting the old torch and melting solder. Sure, you might be using circuits ages old, but you ARE USING them, innovatively, using the ol' noggin. Learning new ways to apply them. Improving on the mistakes of us ol' "pioneers". Your work with our "old ideas" make them worthwhile. Never forget that. It's not the 'inventor' that creates the so-called 'cutting edge', but those who give those inventions feet and hands". The Old Man went back a'staring a hole in that crown moulding. The frontier, the cutting edge is where you find it. And you find it usually at the intersection of Passion and Talent. And you never know just where the next "Cutting Edge" might crop up. From what Hiram says, you might be on one . . . . . . right now! Carry that styptic pencil. So join me, with Hiram, in our optimism regarding not only ham radion, but it's traditions, but also it's relevance. Cutting edges are still to be found, i am very sure. gary // wd4nka ReformSchool Music LTD ( very limited. ) ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Caveat: don't hold anything written above as absolutely factual unless you know it to be so, or have done your own homework. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator.(A)Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:48:54 -0800 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire"Subject: RE: GB> Strange signal on 40 Tnx for the info Ray. I hear them too from time to time and assumed they were some sort of beacon. Must be running some serious power - the K beacon is often audible in N.W. Oregon even in the daytime. I'm hearing it about S3 right now at 1623Z Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu [mailto:owner-glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu] On Behalf Of w5xe@juno.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 7:59 AM To: michael72@binary.net; glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu Subject: Re: GB> Strange signal on 40 They are called Single Letter Beacons, operated by the Russian Navy. The K beacon is Kharbarovsk and there are a whole bunch of them - this frequently asked question comes up on the qrp list and I have sent out the info numerous times. The other letters represent different locations. K7QO has a very good reference at his website and the info about the SLB is below - they are very good for helping with propagation: -------------- Additional listings from the WUN list - some of which are not on the listing from the K7QO site: ::: Known locations of channel markers and cluster beacons. B - Arkhangelsk C - Moscow D - Odessa F - possibly Gdynia (not to be confused with the Vladivostok beacon) F - Vladivostok K - Petropavlovsk Kamchatskiy L - St. Petersburg M - Magadan O - Moscow P - Kaliningrad R - Izhevsk S - Arkhangelsk V - Khiva W - Cuba (a new European based 'W' popped up recently) X - Prague Yu - Kizyl Orda Z - Mulachevo PIP - Rostov-Volgograd area BUZZER - Moscow area --------------------------------- Russian Beacons - K7QO listing ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 40M Beacons heard around 7.039MHz The V-beacon heard around 7.002MHz No data known on power levels are antenna patterns at this time. C - Moscow, European Russia 37.58E 55.75N (in degrees) D - Odessa, Ukraine 30.70E 46.48N F - Vladivostok, Asiatic Russia 131.85E 43.14N K - Khabarovsk, Asiatic Russia 135.10E 48.50N L - St Petersburg, Eur. Russia 30.33E 59.92N M - Magadan, Asiatic Russia 150.83E 59.63N O - Moscow, European Russia 37.58E 55.75N P - Kaliningrad, Eur. Russia 20.50E 54.72N R - Ustinov, S - Archangel, Eur. Russia 41.00E 64.66N U - Murmansk, Eur. Russia 33.08E 68.97N V - Tashkent, X - Prague, Czech Republic 14.43E 50.08N yu- Kholmsk, Asiatic Russia 142.08E 47.66N **** yu is dididahdah **** Here are some distances in miles from the beacons to the city indicated and number in parenthesis is beam heading in degrees: Beacon Seattle,WA San Fran.,CA Phoenix,AZ Dallas,TX C 5,198 (11) 5,864 (11) 6,015 (16) 5,752 (23) D 5,731 (18) 6,377 (18) 6,443 (24) 6,055 (33) F 4,711 (310) 5,163 (313) 5,781 (318) 6,353 (326) K 4,341 (313) 4,818 (316) 5,424 (321) 5,969 (328) L 4,846 (14) 5,507 (13) 5,636 (18) 5,360 (24) M 3,383 (318) 3,904 (322) 4,484 (326) 4,986 (330) P 5,039 (21) 5,675 (20) 5,723 (25) 5,339 (31) S 4,625 (7) 5,298 (7) 5,499 (11) 5,325 (17) U 4,281 (9) 4,952 (9) 5,138 (12) 4,959 (16) X 5,209 (27) 5,819 (26) 5,801 (31) 5,337 (37) u 4,135 (309) 4,578 (312) 5,198 (317) 5,788 (324) Beacon Denver,CO Chicago,IL Buffalo,NY Atlanta,GA Anchorage,AK O 5,479 (20) 4,969 (28) 4,677 (32) 5,371 (29) 4,342 (355) D 5,879 (28) 5,254 (38) 4,907 (43) 5,578 (39) 4,992 (359) F 5,697 (321) 6,068 (332) 6,191 (338) 6,648 (334) 3,305 (285) K 5,317 (323) 5,669 (332) 5,789 (338) 6,250 (335) 2,924 (288) L 5,095 (21) 4,577 (28) 4,287 (32) 4,982 (28) 4,064 (270) M 4,339 (326) 4,677 (332) 4,809 (335) 5,257 (334) 1,953 (293) O 5,479 (20) 4,969 (28) 4,677 (32) 5,371 (29) 4,342 (355) P 5,157 (29) 4,540 (37) 4,204 (40) 4,883 (36) 4,406 (6) S 4,988 (14) 4,569 (21) 4,328 (24) 5,025 (21) 3,718 (354) U 4,623 (15) 4,206 (20) 3,972 (23) 4,668 (20) 3,438 (358) X 5,223 (35) 4,536 (43) 4,166 (47) 4,824 (42) 4,694 (10) u 5,129 (319) 5,543 (328) 5,697 (333) 6,115 (330) 2,742 (282) We have been getting more reports from AK than anywhere else in the USofA and some people in Central Europe have reported hearing some of the beacons all during daylight hours, which makes sense. Hope this information is of use to the QRP community. Any errors are the result of this authors typing skills and will be corrected and posted as needed. =============================== 73 Ray "Politicians are like nappies. Both should be changed regularly -- and for the same reason" "Scotsman - Scotsman's Diary 12/97" Ray Colbert, W5XE, OOTC#3618, SOWP#1064M SOC#78 fp #111 ARCI-5784 NCT2R El Paso,(FAR WEST) TEXASDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:30:15 -0500 From: N2EY@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> antenna questionIn a message dated 3/21/2004 11:57:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, fkamp@comcast.net writes: > The question is, have any of you seen this done, or done it? There was an article on doing just that in QST between 1968 and 1975. (I'll look it up when I get home). The author had a 4 element quad (!). He extended the boom and added loading coils, IIRC. Found that the quad elements acted as capacity hats so he didn't need 70 feet for 40 meters. He used a gamma match and got a decent SWR. How he installed the whole thing without a bucket truck is another matter! If you have a 20 foot boom and you put 8 foot extensions on each end, there's 36 feet, which is a little ove half-size for 40. With the loading coils more than halfway out from the center, the whole thing may be manageable. Good luck! 73 de Jim, N2EYDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:43:46 -0600 From: msmith@licor.com Subject: Re: GB> Strange signal on 40> They are called Single Letter Beacons, operated > by the Russian Navy. Thanks for that Ray. I printed your email. I kept wondering last night about the U and the D I was copying. The signal was really weak with QSB. So the U might have been a V missing a dit and the D might have been the last element of the previous K with the first 2 elements of the V. It was the kind of signal that I have to close my eyes and listen carefully. I was not using the headphones either. That would have made it better. Anyway, thanks a lot and now I will know what's up next time. I can't hear anything there right now with my crummy antenna here at work and my R-2000 at 1740Z. MichaelDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:37:44 -0600 From: Dennis_Brady@tigspecialty.com Subject: GB> Kenyon T-26On the weekend AM round table, yesterday ( 7160 14:00 CST ) there was discussed the need for driver transformers to drive modulator tubes... Seems the folks have salvaged plenty of big iron plate modulation transformers, but let the smaller interstage transformers go the recycler's... Seems that push pull driver plate(s) to push pull grids is a highly desirable configuration... I have a Kenyon T-26 unit that appears to be an interstage xfmr, maybe even a driver for the grids of a pair of 810's... Searching the I-net gave no info, so if I may ask the group, does anyone have any info on this xfmr... One thing I notice is that some of the many terminals are marked with letters, and others are marked with numbers... I don't remember ever seeing a transformer with this terminal designation... Thanks, DennisDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:04:36 -0700 From: "Chris Trask"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > > Maybe you will like to see the specifications of the > European vacuum tubes EF183 and EF184. > I remember that Rhode and Schawartz used them > in one of their outstanding laboratory radio receivers. > Ah, that gives me something to work with. I downloaded the datasheets for both of these from: http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets6.html and found the same curves for both tubes, which is exactly what I needed. >From these, I can tell you that the EF184 is a better variable gain tube than the EF183 as the transconductance of the latter has a sharp knee in it, which can potentially make the AGC system difficult to stabilise. However, let me look these two over more thoroughly and see how they compare under close scrutiny. It looks as though the EF184 is the European equivalent of the 6EJ7. Chris ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications / extinct stuff, anyhow? / \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY _ |/ Principal Engineer oo\ Sonoran Radio Research (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 \ \ / \ \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 . ( ) \ '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask c__; c__; '-..'>.__ Graphics by Loek FrederiksDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:30:07 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: Re: GB> Strange signal on 40Ah, but they do on occasion issue a data transmission. They are more for channel marker than radio location as there are a lot of Russian (I keep wanting to say Soviet) nets that operate in and around the 40m band and they can provide a frequency for the net to come up on, but more likely they use it for propagation to know when to make best contact in the region. Last I heard they were still way behind in the telephone technology where it would put radio out to pasture. If one looks at a lot of these locations, they are either on the Volga or along the Trans-Siberian railway where traversing that territory is essential to have a means of communications. I have not heard the data transmissions but it has been reported on the WUN list in years past. Also, these beacons can be reckoned on by the aircraft when they have artic manuevers. From October to April, the 43rd, 50th and 5th Air Armies have artic war games, money allowing, so that is another use for the beacons. It should be noted that besides 7039, these are also transmitting in various shortwave ranges including the 80m and other amateur bands, have been heard in the 5,6,8,10, 14 and a number of other ranges. As Glen pointed out, they may also be used by traveling agents to check the propagation between the homeland and various targeted locations. By the way, that is also a usage of the voice and cw 5number/5letter group broadcasts often heard on the 30m band 10.125 (enigma 208 I think the lable is), where there may be no valid traffic but hearability studies. It is an interesting field. 73 Ray "Politicians are like nappies. Both should be changed regularly -- and for the same reason" "Scotsman - Scotsman's Diary 12/97" Ray Colbert, W5XE, OOTC#3618, SOWP#1064M SOC#78 fp #111 ARCI-5784 NCT2R El Paso,(FAR WEST) TEXASDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:35:26 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: Re: GB> Strange signal on 40I almost forgot to mention, it does not take a continuous signal to obtain a bearing with the equipment of recent years. Before I retired we were using an older 2 channel interferrometer (7 antennas) and a bearing could be obtained within a few seconds, the FCC system using the automated system they have now, can do a fix within 25-50 miles in a few seconds - basically one transmission if the frequency is already acquired, but for sure within a couple of transmissions. The larger interferrometer systems or single site locators can do the same on one transmission. Allowing for older technology such as the old Aeroflot KRUG in Russia, it might take 3 or 4 transmissions but doable without continuous tone or transmission. Ray, W5XEDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:17:32 -0600 From: fkamp@comcast.net Subject: Re: GB> antenna questionN2EY@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/21/2004 11:57:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, fkamp@comcast.net writes: > > > The question is, have any of you seen this done, or done it? > > There was an article on doing just that in QST between 1968 and 1975. (I'll look it up when I get home). > > The author had a 4 element quad (!). He extended the boom and added loading coils, IIRC. Found that the quad elements acted as capacity hats so he didn't need 70 feet for 40 meters. > > He used a gamma match and got a decent SWR. How he installed the whole thing without a bucket truck is another matter! > > If you have a 20 foot boom and you put 8 foot extensions on each end, there's 36 feet, which is a little ove half-size for 40. With the loading coils more than halfway out from the center, the whole thing may be manageable. Thanks for the ideas. I would like to see that article. My tower is a hybrid tilt-over. I have about 20 feet of Rohn tower that is topped with a steel plate. The plate has a hinge mechanism welded to the top. Then I have a combination 3 inch and 2-1/2 inch drill stem that is 53 feet long. It is hinged at the 20 foot level. I use a boat winch to lower the beam onto the garage roof where I can work on it. It is a little better than having to climb a tower. Right now I am leaning toward linear loading. Shooting for something less than 40 feet total length. I will probably scale it down to 10 meters and try it before I start working on a 40 meter version for the beam. I also found a very neat linear loaded, 40 meter dipole project at: http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/0207040.pdf Regards, Frank KampDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:30:10 -0700 From: "Chris Trask"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier Using the datasheets for the EF183/6EH7: http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/010/e/EF183.pdf and for the EF184/6EJ7: http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/010/e/EF184.pdf I was able to do anevaluation of these two tubes for use as an RF amplifier stage. Here's the vital statistics: TUBE EF183/6EH7 EF184/6EJ7 gm 12.5mA/V 15.6mA/V Ri 500K 380K Ci 9.5pF 10pF Co 3pF 3pF Vp 200V 200V Ip 12mA 10mA Vg2 90V 200V Ig2 4.5mA 4.1mA ENR 490 ohms 300 ohms Curves p.3 p.4 These tubes appear to be fairly similar until you get down to the last two entries, and here we find that the 6EJ7 is significantly quieter than the 6EH7 (490 vs. 300 ohms ENR). In looking at the transfer curves in the two datasheets, we find that not only is the 6EJ7 noticably more linear than the 6EH7, but the variation of the transconductance with the control grid is much smoother, rendering the 6EJ7 more forgiving at AGC extremes and less likely to cause AGC motorboating. Now that I have datasheets available to do an "apples vs. apples" comparison, I would choose the 6EJ7 ahead of the 6EH7. Chris ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications / extinct stuff, anyhow? / \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY _ |/ Principal Engineer oo\ Sonoran Radio Research (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 \ \ / \ \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 . ( ) \ '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask c__; c__; '-..'>.__ Graphics by Loek Frederiks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Trask"To: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" ; Cc: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > > > > Maybe you will like to see the specifications of the > > European vacuum tubes EF183 and EF184. > > I remember that Rhode and Schawartz used them > > in one of their outstanding laboratory radio receivers. > > > > Ah, that gives me something to work with. I downloaded the datasheets > for both of these from: > > http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets6.html > > and found the same curves for both tubes, which is exactly what I needed. > From these, I can tell you that the EF184 is a better variable gain tube > than the EF183 as the transconductance of the latter has a sharp knee in it, > which can potentially make the AGC system difficult to stabilise. However, > let me look these two over more thoroughly and see how they compare under > close scrutiny. > > It looks as though the EF184 is the European equivalent of the 6EJ7. > Chris > > ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and > / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications > / extinct stuff, anyhow? / > \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY > _ |/ Principal Engineer > oo\ Sonoran Radio Research > (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 > \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 > \ \ / \ > \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 > . ( ) \ > '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net > | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask > c__; c__; '-..'>.__ > > Graphics by Loek Frederiks > > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:40:12 +1200 From: "Dave Brown"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Trask"snip-- Certainly is. The 183 and the 184 were widely used in TV sets and there have been a number of amateur rx projects published using them-one that comes to mind was the Electronics Australia (then RTV&H) version of the Wadley loop front end-the Deltahet- published in mid-1963. It used both-a 6EH7 as RF amp and a 6EJ7 as second mixer (They used a 12AT7 as first mixer) with a pair of 6EJ7s as the 37.5MHz amp. But I'm sure both were widely used in all sorts of amateur applications- I even had an EF184 at the start of the multiplier chain in an xtal controlled 2 MX transmitter at one time. There was a post script to the QST article as well- original article was in Feb 1966 and a postscript from F8AJ in QST for July 66. I only have a very poor xerox of the latter though. 73 Dave, ZL3FJ > It looks as though the EF184 is the European equivalent of the 6EJ7. > Chris > > ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and > / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications > / extinct stuff, anyhow? / > \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY > _ |/ Principal Engineer > oo\ Sonoran Radio Research > (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 > \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 > \ \ / \ > \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 > . ( ) \ > '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net > | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask > c__; c__; '-..'>.__ > > Graphics by Loek Frederiks > > > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:49:42 -0700 From: w5xe@juno.com Subject: Re: GB> Strange signal on 40This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_6760.56a0.53c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Interesting. I didn't know about the capabilites to get a >DF shot with short xmissions. How is DFing on HF >accomplished? I thought that was practically impossible >without multiple mobile rigs to get triangulation shots. Well that is normally true, especially with fixed sites normally configured. and then the fix information is tightened up with mobile units to get it within the 25-50 mile eliptical area. However, with a single site locator, one can get to the same eliptically patterned area with just one site, but the accuracy is enhanced with an ionospheric sounder or series of sounders set out 1000-2000 miles in the directions of interest. In other words, one could have 4 sounders at the main direction points of N/E/S/W and get a relatively good position that could then be followed up with mobile units. These sounders you have probably heard on the ham bands as they pass thru, going up or down in frequency - sounds like a sweeper - which it is, usually sending out the signal from a broadband omni antenna (crossed dipoles) and will run the range set by the computer program - say 6-25 Mhz and it takes several seconds to run up stop then run back down. The transmitter power is also set at about 10-20 watts - 25 I think is the max. The incoming signal from a specific area is then tabulated in the computer with what the sounder shows at that frequency, and range with its bounce off the ionosphere. They do work very well. And where an agency can't, for various reasons, get space to install the minimum of 3 fixed sites(foreign jurisdiction), the single site at just over the cost of a single with the sounders, can be put to use. And the sounders can be put in an office building such as embassy or counseler offices. Not a lot of detail but hopefully you get the idea. 73 Ray, W5XE ----__JNP_000_6760.56a0.53c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable>Interesting. I didn't know about the = capabilites to=20 get a>DF shot with short xmissions. How is DFing on= HF=20>accomplished? I thought that was practically= =20 impossible>without multiple mobile rigs to get triangulation=20 shots.Well that is normally true, especially with fixedsites normally configured. and then the fixinformation is tightened up with mobile units toget it within the 25-50 mile eliptical area. However,with a single site locator, one can get to the sameeliptically patterned area with just one site, butthe accuracy is enhanced with an ionospheric sounderor series of sounders set out 1000-2000 miles inthe directions of interest. In other words, one couldhave 4 sounders at the main direction points of N/E/S/Wand get a relatively good position that could then befollowed up with mobile units. These sounders youhave probably heard on the ham bands as they passthru, going up or down in frequency - sounds likea sweeper - which it is, usually sending out the signalfrom a broadband omni antenna (crossed dipoles)and will run the range set by the computer program -say 6-25 Mhz and it takes several seconds to run upstop then run back down. The transmitter power isalso set at about 10-20 watts - 25 I think is the max.The incoming signal from a specific area is thentabulated in the computer with what the sounder showsat that frequency, and range with its bounce off theionosphere. They do work very well. And wherean agency can't, for various reasons, get space toinstall the minimum of 3 fixed sites(foreign jurisdiction),the single site at just over the cost of a single with the sounders,= DIV>can be put to use. And the sounders can be put in anoffice building such as embassy or counseler offices.Not a lot of detail but hopefully you get the idea.73Ray, W5XE----__JNP_000_6760.56a0.53c4--Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:58:32 -0000 From: Hans SummersSubject: Re: GB> xtal qsy Dave If you or someone else are able to scan those and email them to me, I would be very interested. Alternatively photocopies and snail mail and I'll cover your expenses. It would be interesting to reproduce the articles on my penning page http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/penning (of course after getting ARRL permission). 73 de Hans G0UPL -----Original Message----- From: wa4qal@ix.netcom.comTo: Hans Summers ; 'Ron Barlow' ; 'g4kki.bill@ntlworld.com' CC: 'glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu' Sent: Mon Mar 22 21:54:03 2004 Subject: RE: GB> xtal qsy Ok, now I have an authoratative reference regarding "penning" crystals. On page 48 of the February 1933 QST, there's an article entitled "Silvering to Lower Crystal Frequency (For the Experimentor)" by W. Powell Hunter (W4PAL). There's a followup article on page 41 of the March 1934 QST entitled "More on Silvering Crystals (For the Experimenter)", by Fred Armes (W1GMD). On page 15 of the April 1935 QST, there's a "Strays" article "W8MJR suggests coating crystals with ink". Additionally, on page 63 of the April 1939 QST, there's a "Hints and Kinks" item entitled "New Method of Lowering Crystal Frequency" by B. P. Hansen (W9KNZ). Finally, there's a "Strays" item on page 27 of the May 1940 QST concerning "Lower the Frequency of a Crystal" by W4DMC. Dave WA4QAL -----Original Message----- From: wa4qal@ix.netcom.com Sent: Mar 8, 2004 2:38 PM To: Hans Summers , 'Ron Barlow' , "'g4kki.bill@ntlworld.com'" Cc: "'glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu'" Subject: RE: GB> xtal qsy I first heard of that trick about 28 years ago, and it definitely wasn't new back then (It probably dates back to the 1930s, although I don't have an authoratative reference.). Back then, American Novices were restricted to crystal controlled rigs, and, even then, crystals were expensive. So, if you wanted to change the frequency of a crystal, you could open it up (we were all mostly using FT-243 crystals back then), pull the rock out, and give it a good rubbing with a pencil. The graphite would load the crystal, pulling the frequency lower. The only problem is that, over a couple of weeks, as the crystal shed the graphite, the frequency would drift back up toward the original frequency. Dave WA4QAL -----Original Message----- From: Hans Summers Sent: Mar 8, 2004 9:23 AM To: 'Ron Barlow' , Hans Summers , "'g4kki.bill@ntlworld.com'" Cc: "'glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu'" Subject: RE: GB> xtal qsy > > > > Another thought Ron... > > > > I used modern HC49 sized crystals (I think Bill G4KKI did too). If > > you were using an older and physically larger crystal like HC6 I > > suppose that you might reason that the weight of ink you would need to > > add would need to be much more due to the proportionately larger crystal. > > > It's a great technique for lowering crystal QRG. Grinding for > > increasing freq, penning to reduce it. But I don't think grinding an > > HC49 sized xtal would be possible. > > > Incidentally the TX these crystals are used in is a one valve > > triode-pentode rig, see http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/cwtx > > > 73 de Hans G0UPL > > Hi Hans! > Many thanks, for all the great info! You are absolutely correct. > I was "operating" on a HC6 style xtal. I was very impressed with how > well your technique works! I may be able to move this HC6 "rock" > further, by waiting for it to "dry" more completely, between > applications of ink. > I will advise you of my results. > Many tks & vy 73 de Ron n4gjv That's great Ron, I'll look forward to hearing your further experiments and perhaps adding details of your results to my webpage. I can't claim credit for the technique though, I first heard about it in an article in SPRAT, the journal of the G-QRP club, issue #99, "Penning Down Crystals" by Richard Wells G0RXH. My webpage is really only a writeup of my experiences with Richard's technique. Tying this back to all the other threads too... http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/polyphase/vfo/index.htm Here's a page with the circuit diagram of a 14MHz Franklin oscillator done in solid state with a 74ACT04 inverter chip. Which ALSO shows pictures of my Huff and Puff stabiliser for stabilising it (though it's already very stable), and a picture of an old Jackson Brothers reduction drive for historical interest! 73 Hans G0UPL http://www.HansSummers.com Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:54:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: wa4qal@ix.netcom.com Subject: RE: GB> xtal qsyOk, now I have an authoratative reference regarding "penning" crystals. On page 48 of the February 1933 QST, there's an article entitled "Silvering to Lower Crystal Frequency (For the Experimentor)" by W. Powell Hunter (W4PAL). There's a followup article on page 41 of the March 1934 QST entitled "More on Silvering Crystals (For the Experimenter)", by Fred Armes (W1GMD). On page 15 of the April 1935 QST, there's a "Strays" article "W8MJR suggests coating crystals with ink". Additionally, on page 63 of the April 1939 QST, there's a "Hints and Kinks" item entitled "New Method of Lowering Crystal Frequency" by B. P. Hansen (W9KNZ). Finally, there's a "Strays" item on page 27 of the May 1940 QST concerning "Lower the Frequency of a Crystal" by W4DMC. Dave WA4QAL -----Original Message----- From: wa4qal@ix.netcom.com Sent: Mar 8, 2004 2:38 PM To: Hans Summers, 'Ron Barlow' , "'g4kki.bill@ntlworld.com'" Cc: "'glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu'" Subject: RE: GB> xtal qsy I first heard of that trick about 28 years ago, and it definitely wasn't new back then (It probably dates back to the 1930s, although I don't have an authoratative reference.). Back then, American Novices were restricted to crystal controlled rigs, and, even then, crystals were expensive. So, if you wanted to change the frequency of a crystal, you could open it up (we were all mostly using FT-243 crystals back then), pull the rock out, and give it a good rubbing with a pencil. The graphite would load the crystal, pulling the frequency lower. The only problem is that, over a couple of weeks, as the crystal shed the graphite, the frequency would drift back up toward the original frequency. Dave WA4QAL -----Original Message----- From: Hans Summers Sent: Mar 8, 2004 9:23 AM To: 'Ron Barlow' , Hans Summers , "'g4kki.bill@ntlworld.com'" Cc: "'glowbugs@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu'" Subject: RE: GB> xtal qsy > > > > Another thought Ron... > > > > I used modern HC49 sized crystals (I think Bill G4KKI did too). If > > you were using an older and physically larger crystal like HC6 I > > suppose that you might reason that the weight of ink you would need to > > add would need to be much more due to the proportionately larger crystal. > > > It's a great technique for lowering crystal QRG. Grinding for > > increasing freq, penning to reduce it. But I don't think grinding an > > HC49 sized xtal would be possible. > > > Incidentally the TX these crystals are used in is a one valve > > triode-pentode rig, see http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/cwtx > > > 73 de Hans G0UPL > > Hi Hans! > Many thanks, for all the great info! You are absolutely correct. > I was "operating" on a HC6 style xtal. I was very impressed with how > well your technique works! I may be able to move this HC6 "rock" > further, by waiting for it to "dry" more completely, between > applications of ink. > I will advise you of my results. > Many tks & vy 73 de Ron n4gjv That's great Ron, I'll look forward to hearing your further experiments and perhaps adding details of your results to my webpage. I can't claim credit for the technique though, I first heard about it in an article in SPRAT, the journal of the G-QRP club, issue #99, "Penning Down Crystals" by Richard Wells G0RXH. My webpage is really only a writeup of my experiences with Richard's technique. Tying this back to all the other threads too... http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/polyphase/vfo/index.htm Here's a page with the circuit diagram of a 14MHz Franklin oscillator done in solid state with a 74ACT04 inverter chip. Which ALSO shows pictures of my Huff and Puff stabiliser for stabilising it (though it's already very stable), and a picture of an old Jackson Brothers reduction drive for historical interest! 73 Hans G0UPL http://www.HansSummers.com Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:48:59 -0500 From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich"Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier Dear amigo Chris: You are absolutely right ! EF184 is the best pentode for RF amplifier duty... But, let me ask you something... have you thought about the ECC88 and the even better ECC189 dual triodes that were designed for TV tuner work, and that incidentally were also about the last vacuum tubes ever designed from ""scratch"" until Phillips and other European manufacturers stopped from making receiving type vacuum tubes. The ECC189 is simply wonderful for a front end !!! I am sure that you are aware of our limitations here at my QTH regarding the possibility of obtaining solid state modern devices... so we still make ""new"" ham radio rigs using mostly vacuum tubes... We even still make a version of "" The Islander"" a DSB transceiver with direct conversion vacuum tube receiver... Tube lineup is EF184 RF amp ECH81 product detector ECH81 triode section not used ECL82 triode audio preamp ECL82 pentode audio output 6AH6 VFO ( Russian equivalent 6*5P ) Audio filter provided by good working brain of operator !!! Keep up the good work amigo !!! 73 and DX YOur friend in Havana Arnie Coro CO2KK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Trask"To: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" ; Cc: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:04 PM Subject: Re: GB> 6EH7 vs. 6EJ7 as RF Amplifier > > > > Maybe you will like to see the specifications of the > > European vacuum tubes EF183 and EF184. > > I remember that Rhode and Schawartz used them > > in one of their outstanding laboratory radio receivers. > > > > Ah, that gives me something to work with. I downloaded the datasheets > for both of these from: > > http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets6.html > > and found the same curves for both tubes, which is exactly what I needed. > From these, I can tell you that the EF184 is a better variable gain tube > than the EF183 as the transconductance of the latter has a sharp knee in i t, > which can potentially make the AGC system difficult to stabilise. However, > let me look these two over more thoroughly and see how they compare under > close scrutiny. > > It looks as though the EF184 is the European equivalent of the 6EJ7. > Chris > > ,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and > / What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications > / extinct stuff, anyhow? / > \ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY > _ |/ Principal Engineer > oo\ Sonoran Radio Research > (__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240 > \ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240 > \ \ / \ > \ '" \ IEEE Member #40274515 > . ( ) \ > '-| )__| :. \ Email: christrask@earthlink.net > | | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask > c__; c__; '-..'>.__ > > Graphics by Loek Frederiks > > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:22:33 +0000 From: "Brad Hernlem"Subject: GB> 5687 Does the 5687 twin triode have any redeeming virtues of note other than as a temptation of the audiophoolz and as a shack space heater? Brad _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:43:43 EST From: N2EY@aol.com Subject: Re: GB> The "Cutting Edge"--part1_8b.6769457.2d90d42f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/22/04 11:24:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, merz.ds@mellon.com writes: > Among others, he had a gorgeous original Vincent in ride-able condition One of my favorite late-weekend-night songs. But you have to hear it on the late-night radio to do it justice. 73 de Jim, N2EY 1952 Vincent Black Lightning by Richard Thompson Oh says Red Molly to James "That's a fine motorbike. A girl could feel special on any such like" Says James to Red Molly "My hat's off to you It's a Vincent Black Lightning, 1952. And I've seen you at the corners and cafes it seems Red hair and black leather, my favourite colour scheme" And he pulled her on behind and down to Boxhill they did ride Oh says James to Red Molly "Here's a ring for your right hand But I'll tell you in earnest I'm a dangerous man. For I've fought with the law since I was seventeen, I robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine. Now I'm 21 years, I might make 22 And I don't mind dying, but for the love of you. And if fate should break my stride Then I'll give you my Vincent to ride" "Come down, come down, Red Molly" called Sergeant McRae "For they've taken young James Adie for armed robbery. Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside. Oh come down, Red Molly to his dying bedside" When she came to the hospital, there wasn't much left He was running out of road, he was running out of breath But he smiled to see her cry He said "I'll give you my Vincent to ride" Says James "In my opinion, there's nothing in this world Beats a 52 Vincent and a red headed girl. Now Nortons and Indians and Greeves won't do, Ah, they don't have a soul like a Vincent 52" Oh he reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys Said "I've got no further use for these. I see angels on Ariels in leather and chrome, Swooping down from heaven to carry me home" And he gave her one last kiss and died And he