Article: 225416 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: <1150256354.651203.182360@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: antenna coil forms Message-ID: <3Kglg.61416$qd2.16512@bignews6.bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 14:14:30 -0400 "rckchp" wrote in message news:1150256354.651203.182360@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com... > Greetings, > > In the course of my occupation I have aquired a bunch of heavy > cardboard tubes. These are all 3-1/4" external diameter and approx 1/8 > to 3/16" wall thickness. Before sending them to the cardboard recycling > dump I though of offering them to the antenna coil experimenters out > there. Some of them have what appears to be a plastic coating and would > likely be somewhat weather resistant, but even the plain ones could be > spray on plastic (or brushed on epoxy or poly resin?) coated. A list > how many available and the lengths follows (the plastic coated ones > identified with letter "P") : > > (2) 32-3/4" P > (2) 24-1/2" > (3) 18-3/4" P > (4) 18-3/4" > (3) 16-1/2" > (6) 15" P > (5) 14-1/4" > (1) 12-3/4" P > (3) 12-1/4 > (2) 10-1/2" > > I'm offering these free, first come first served, but you pay the > postage, or you can pick them up if you're local. I think they can be > sent parcel post without any wrapping....I'll just stick a mailing > label on them and send them out. When it arrives just look at the > postage sticker and reimburse me that amount. Any takers? If so, email > me (off list) your name & mailing address. > > 72 & Regards, > > Rich k2cpe > K2 #1102 > rckchp@comcast.net > Cardboard soaked in fiberglass resin makes an excellent coil form. It's strong , waterproof and RF transparent. Even better it you put a little glass on it. Article: 225417 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: <2JSdnUf_F_ld5AjZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@insightbb.com> Subject: Re: Looking for simple antenna solution Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 14:59:11 -0400 "Bob D." wrote in message news:2JSdnUf_F_ld5AjZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@insightbb.com... > After years off the air, I'm ready to get back on. I want to keep it > simple though. I picked up a 6m/2m/440 Yaesu VX-7 HT at Dayton and I plan > to use it for both base and mobile. I want an antenna that covers these 3 > bands that I can mount off the side of my 80 ft. tower. (Off the side, > because there is no way I can climb to the top anymore!) I'm not concerned > with the gain, I just want something better than the rubber duck. Any > product and mounting recommendations? > > -- > Bob D. ND9B > Find someone who can climb for you. There is usually a willing young ham glad to do this sort of thing. Article: 225418 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: fmmck@aol.com (Fred McKenzie) Subject: Re: Antennas and the FCC Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:15:23 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1150292304_65647@sp6iad.superfeed.net> In article <1150292304_65647@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, chuck wrote: > Hey Jimbo, > > Here's a link: > > http://www2.arrl.org/news/rfsafety/exposure_regs.html > ARRLWeb: The FCC's New RF-Exposure Regulations Chuck- Thanks for the link. I went from there to the FCC's web site and downloaded Bulletin 65 and its supplements, including the guide for local government. I followed another link and found a BASIC program called rfsafety.bas at http://www2.arrl.org/news/rfsafety/rfsafety.bas by Wayne Overbeck, N6NB. (In the Ham Radio supplement (B) to Bulletin 65, I found a reference to the program written by Prof. Wayne Overbeck.) Except for the first line of the program, it runs in Chipmunk BASIC on the Macintosh. It may also run in Microsoft QBASIC, but I didn't try it. I went ahead and ran all combinations I use, both mobile and at home. Apparently you can absorb a little too much RF by standing next to a mobile, unless you consider the duty cycle! 73, Fred, K4DII Article: 225419 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:09:54 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Anyone understanding the basic system at all would understand if the > little charges made noise from transferring charge, that noise would be > at a radio frequency. Anyone looking at what you drew and understaning > what you drew would also understand in order to short the noise energy > at the radio frequency the path would also be required to short the > good signal. Absolutely false! Good grief, Tom, don't you even understand impedance transformation? The impedance changes along a transmission line with reflections. The impedance at the receiver is NOT the same impedance as exists at the antenna feedpoint. Since my noise problems were with a G5RV used to receive on 40m, let's take that as an example. G5RV dipole---30 ft. 300 ohm matching section--x--coax to RCVR Let's assume a 50 ohm impedance at point 'x' looking toward the receiver. What is the impedance at the dipole feedpoint? Are you capable of that calculation? The 300 ohm matching section is known to be 1/2WL on 20m so it is 1/4WL on 40m. The impedance seen at the dipole feedpoint looking back toward the receiver is therefore ~1800 ohms. A 500 ohm RF choke across the feedpoint will considerably decrease the RF noise at the receiver. So, Tom, which way would the RF noise rather flow? Through a 500 ohm RF choke at the feedpoint or down the transmission line that is exhibiting an impedance of 1800 ohms. I thought you were kidding but you really are trying to refute Ohm's law. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225420 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <2uilg.100562$H71.50366@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:13:50 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > I was very surprised you didn't think through what you drew and what > you proposed before posting it. And I am astounded that you would assert that an RF noise pulse would rather flow into the 1800 ohms looking into the feedline than to flow through the 500 ohm choke located at the feedpoint. Or through the straight copper wire of a folded dipole. But, as I have said earlier, I'm willing to learn. Please tell us all exactly how your proposed violation of Ohm's law occurs in reality. Please see my other posting involving a G5RV on 40m. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225421 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:23:42 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > By the way Cecil, I'm absolutely serious. So am I, Tom. For the readers who haven't been keeping up with this thread, let me relate exactly what you are serious about. I had a severe clear-sky charged-particle problem in the Arizona desert. My G5RV was arcing at my transceiver's coax connector about once per minute. I wouldn't have been able to hear any signals through the arcing noise. 40m is my favorite band. I installed a 100 uH choke across the feedpoint. It eliminated the arcing and resulted in readable signals on 40m. I don't know what the signal to noise ratio was but I could hear and work other hams during the charged particle wind storms so the S/N ratio obviously improved. You asserted that such is impossible but it actually happened to me about 15 years ago in the Arizona desert. Anything that eliminates the charged particle arcing more than obviously improves the S/N ratio. Here's a challenge for you, Tom. Set up an arc generator across your receiver terminals in parallel with your antenna. Measure the S/N ratio. Turn off the arc generator. If the S/N ratio doesn't improve, I will adopt your Corona God religion. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225422 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <2uilg.100562$H71.50366@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <1150665573.303635.64530@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <5Ajlg.100579$H71.9289@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:28:33 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Why don't you take a few days an think about what the noise our > receiver's hear is, and how that noise could possibly interact > differently than a desired signal! Here's a repeat from my other posting. Set up an arc generator across your receiver's terminals in parallel with your antenna. What is the S/N ratio while the arc generator is running? What is the S/N ratio when you turn off the arc generator? For you to assert that there is no change whether the antenna terminals are arcing or not is downright pathological. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225423 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:43:20 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > > I had a severe clear-sky charged-particle problem in > the Arizona desert. My G5RV was arcing at my transceiver's > coax connector about once per minute. I wouldn't have been > able to hear any signals through the arcing noise. Cecil, I am a bit confused by your description. The arcing was once per minute. Presumably the arc occurred over a very short time, much less than one second. What was happening during the other 59 seconds of each minute? I have no doubt that an arc would interfere with reception. What about the remainder of the time? 73, Gene Article: 225424 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:01:04 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> I had a severe clear-sky charged-particle problem in >> the Arizona desert. My G5RV was arcing at my transceiver's >> coax connector about once per minute. I wouldn't have been >> able to hear any signals through the arcing noise. > > I am a bit confused by your description. The arcing was once per minute. > Presumably the arc occurred over a very short time, much less than one > second. What was happening during the other 59 seconds of each minute? I'm sorry, Gene, my bad. The arcing was once per second not once per minute. I actually have never heard of such a thing as arcing once per minute. Have you? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225425 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Sky noise temperature - 2m, 70cm, 23cm Message-ID: References: <2q1a92pkre7o2kc0cechlks7pmh7rlacdn@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:33:06 GMT On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:38:55 GMT, "Dale Parfitt" wrote: >Hi Owen, > >I seem to recall around 30K-40K for cold sky. > >At 432 and above, everyone I know is using sun noise to evaluate system >performance. Have a look at K5SO's site: >http://www.k5so.com/Sun_noise.html > Thanks, an interesting article and relevant. However, sky noise / ambient noise remain of interest for G/T evaluation. Thanks Owen -- Article: 225426 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Message-ID: References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:00:33 GMT On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:10:56 -0500, "gravity" wrote: >> Given the looseness of use of the unit lb to specify mass and >> (incorrectly) force, it is a bit ambiguous... but he probably means >> mass. > >lbs is always force as far as i know. slugs is mass. > >so long as we are confined to the planet earth, there is no difference >really. 1 kg (mass) always weighs 2.2 lbs (force). obviously if you go to >the moon ... > >kilogram, slug -- mass >newton, pound -- force > I was taught (in imperial units) to differentiate mass (pound) and force (pound-force). That learning stood me well when we changed to SI (metric) part way through school. Practice may be different in different places, but I suspect that it is laxness on the part of practitioners who refer to force in units of pounds. I just had a look at Wikipedia (which isn't the oracle), here is their summary: "The pound is the name of a number of units of mass, all in the range of 300 to 600 grams. Most commonly, it refers to the avoirdupois pound (exactly 453.59237 g), divided into 16 avoirdupois ounces. There is also a unit of force corresponding to the avoirdupois pound, see pound-force." Wikpedia highlights just another aspect of the unit, its flexibility! Owen PS: a slug is a unit of mass, and equivalent to about 14.6Kg or 32.2lbs. I don't think it is in wide use! -- Article: 225427 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:01:25 -0700 Message-ID: <129bmq7g5s4td19@corp.supernews.com> References: Jimmie D wrote: > > Depends on the PVC you use. Some of it is pretty bad. Put a sample in a > microwave oven with a cup of water and turn it on for a couple of minutes. > If the plastic gets hot it is bad for antenna use.. Probably OK for supports > but I wouldnt use it to house an antenna element That tells you the loss when in an intense field at microwave frequencies. It doesn't tell you a thing about the loss near a typical HF or VHF antenna, except that if it passes the microwave test it's probably ok. Many materials which fail the oven test are fine for other applications. PVC insulation on wire won't hurt an antenna noticeably, nor will PVC at low-electric field points like a dipole feedpoint. I'd avoid using it for an insulator at high field points like the end of a wire antenna or the base of an electrically short dipole. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 225428 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:04:01 -0700 Message-ID: <129bmv2t1gnm174@corp.supernews.com> References: The main problem PVC will probably cause is to detune(*) the antenna because of its dielectric constant. If you can adjust the element lengths to compensate, it probably won't be a problem. (*) By detune I don't mean that it just changes the resonant frequency. It'll affect the pattern as well. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Al Dykes wrote: > A friend is telling me that PVC has crappy electrical characteristics > and having my wire against it for the entire antenna not good. > > I've been making simple VHF antennas with small diameter PVC pipe cut > and glued to make the rigid structure and then taping 12ga copper wire > to the PVC to make the elements. > > Should I switch to something else ? > Article: 225429 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Offer to W8JI Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:26:34 GMT The way I got into MENSA during the mid-60's is that a member of MENSA said if I held Libertarian concepts, I couldn't possibly possess a high enough IQ to enter MENSA. That MENSA member paid for my entrance exam and my first year membership fees. I would now like to make that same offer to W8JI. Tom, I will pay for your MENSA entrance exam and your first year's dues for membership. If you don't accept my offer, everyone will know what your problem really is. So, how about it? Take the MENSA exam and report the results back here. I will pay for everything. What do you have to lose except face? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225430 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:42:37 GMT "Al Dykes" wrote in message news:e73v20$2bb$1@panix5.panix.com... > > > > A friend is telling me that PVC has crappy electrical characteristics > and having my wire against it for the entire antenna not good. > > I've been making simple VHF antennas with small diameter PVC pipe cut > and glued to make the rigid structure and then taping 12ga copper wire > to the PVC to make the elements. > > Should I switch to something else ? > > -- > a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m > > Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001 Hi Al I am using 1/2 inside diameter PVC pipe ( white stuff from Home Depot) to enclose three foot lengths of TV 300 ohm twin lead folded dipoles at 137 MHz. I have done the microwave oven test and couldnt detect any temperature increase. I measured the antenna's input impedance with and without the PVC cover. I detected very litle change when the PVC is included. The antenna seems to have the same sensitivity with and without the PVC. I'd expect my experience to convince you that PVC is an OK covering for 2 meter dipoles. How much change do you see when you Grid Dip a dipole with and without the PVC?? Jerry Article: 225431 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: Looking for simple antenna solution Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:06:38 -0000 Message-ID: <129bqke8hoc974a@corp.supernews.com> References: <2JSdnUf_F_ld5AjZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@insightbb.com> "Bob D." wrote in message news:2JSdnUf_F_ld5AjZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@insightbb.com... > After years off the air, I'm ready to get back on. I want to keep it > simple though. I picked up a 6m/2m/440 Yaesu VX-7 HT at Dayton and I plan > to use it for both base and mobile. This is a reasonable starting place, but you're likely to find that a multiband HT has a couple of limitations which make it less than ideal for use in base and mobile applications. For one: HTs tend to have broadly-tuned front ends, optimized for fairly low incoming-signal levels. This is what's needed to provide wide-range multiband operation with a rubber dummy-load antenna. Unfortunately, as a result, many HTs are very prone to strong-signal overload and intermod, especially when hooked to a good antenna. If you hook an HT to a halfwave dipole or full-length quarterwave whip on a good ground plane, you may find it being "blasted open" by pager signals and other strong local transmissions. This can be a real limitation for base-station operation, and sometimes requires the use of a narrowband notch filter to reject the pager or other strong out-of-band signals. In mobile operations, the lack of a separate squelch control can be a problem on some HTs. Desired-signal and interference levels can vary quite a lot as you drive along, and it's no fun at all (and not very safe) to have to try to hit an HT's buttons to bring up a squelch-setting menu while driving. An HT is usable in both base and mobile situations, but if you find yourself using it a lot you may also find yourself wanting a rig with a more robust front-end. A small mobile radio could serve that purpose in both mobile and base applications. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 225432 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Looking for simple antenna solution Message-ID: References: <2JSdnUf_F_ld5AjZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@insightbb.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:15:18 GMT On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:05:29 -0500, "Bob D." wrote: >After years off the air, I'm ready to get back on. I want to keep it simple >though. I picked up a 6m/2m/440 Yaesu VX-7 HT at Dayton and I plan to use it >for both base and mobile. I want an antenna that covers these 3 bands that I >can mount off the side of my 80 ft. tower. (Off the side, because there is >no way I can climb to the top anymore!) I'm not concerned with the gain, I >just want something better than the rubber duck. Any product and mounting >recommendations? Bearing in mind that most HTs suffer from IM (probably due to lack front end selectivity), you might want to avoid wideband antennas such as discones. Even on relatively narrow antennas, you may still experience nuisance mute opening if you do not use CTCSS on monitored channels. Owen -- Article: 225433 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:46:45 -0400 On 18 Jun 2006 12:29:52 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote: > > > >A friend is telling me that PVC has crappy electrical characteristics >and having my wire against it for the entire antenna not good. >Should I switch to something else ? Your brain, not his. Some PVC is better than others, but I use it often. I use cpvc or the white pvc for antennas. The velocity factor is changed so the lengths are a bit shorter, but once trimmed, the antennas do well. I either use the PVC for insulators or for holding the wire rigid. I built many a dipole inside PVC for vertical or horizontal use. I also use it for insulators or spacers on open wire. Never had a problem with it. Good luck i hope this helps Buck -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 225434 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Sky noise temperature - 2m, 70cm, 23cm From: Dave Oldridge References: <2q1a92pkre7o2kc0cechlks7pmh7rlacdn@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:28:32 GMT Owen Duffy wrote in news:2q1a92pkre7o2kc0cechlks7pmh7rlacdn@4ax.com: > > Googling about turns up a little, and only a little information on the > expected sky noise temperature on 2m, 70cm, 23cm. > > The information isn't very consistent. For example, articles that talk > about the sky noise below 200MHz being 100K or more, and amateur > articles talking about sky noise at 144MHz being "hundreds of > degrees". > > Similary, for 70cm a broad brush figure of 45K seems to be used, and > others talk about 20K away from the galactic plane and 60K on the > galactic plane. (Yes, they will be blurred together with a low gain > antenna.) > > Some discussions treat the "sky noise temperature" as if it includes > spillover noise (eg in cold sky / hot earth measurements). > > Can anyone recommend a reliable source of sky noise characteristics > for these bands. > > Additionally, I am interested in the range of ambient noise levels > experienced for these bands for traditional DX activity (ie antennas > at zero elevation. > > Alternatively, are satellite beacons a reliable source for measuring > station receive performance? > > Or... is there some other better way of measuring station receive > performance? I'm reasonably happy with a 2m receiver that has a noise figure of 1.5db or less. A good antenna system should be able to exceed the noise floor of such a receiver, pointed just about anywhere in the sky. The galactic plane should be enough -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 225435 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Yuri Blanarovich" References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:35:03 -0400 wrote : > > ....and as Dr. Phil would say, "How's that shielded loop thread doing > Yuri? Is it working for you?" > Another jab from Tom da scientwist. I listened to someone's advice: "do not engage in the pissing contest with skunk" I said what I know, you said what you know, anyone can verify by building and testing the shielded loops and judging who is full of it. Shielded loops work as shielded loops, attenuating local noise or interference with source located within fractions of wavelength from the antennas, if you know or admit it, or not. It is a FACT that any half baked ham can observe and verify. You can mumbo - jumbo your theories and display your falacies on your web pages all you want. You can call the shield to be an "antenna" or whatever you like. I thank you for another subject for entertainment and for the "Mythbusters" articles, when time will permit me. Right now I am busy rejuvenating 175 acres of antennas and building mother of all contest stations. Barely time to have a pi$$. Keep it up! 73 Yuri da BUm BUm Article: 225436 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Yuri Blanarovich" References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:44:34 -0400 "Tom Donaly" wrote > > There's no such thing as a clear-sky charged-particle problem, either > in the Arizona desert or anywhere else. Naming isn't proving. You're > going to have people blaming their arcing problems on pure fantasy. > 73, > Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Ahm, like there are no molecules of air being moved by the wind and rubbing on conductive parts? When part is not grounded, it will not accumulate the charge? If the charge exceeds dielectric strength of the insulator (connector), the discharge in form of spark would not happen? Like ariplanes do not accumulate charge when flying? Or my 72 Buick? Like Cecil is completely off the rocker making stuff up just to make himself look foolish? Hmmmmmm! Too much funny stuff going on here from scientwific community. :-) Yuri K3BU Article: 225437 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Yuri Blanarovich" References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:48:20 -0400 "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:b8olg.119294$dW3.77585@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com... > Yuri Blanarovich wrote: >> I listened to someone's advice: "do not engage in a pissing contest with >> a skunk" > > How about mud wrestling with pigs? > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Could be healthy if the mud is medicinal and definitely not foul smelly. Good for arthritis. bada BUm Article: 225438 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: David Subject: Thumbs up for KMA Antennas Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:34:37 GMT I would just like to publicly give a big thanks to Ed at KMA antennas http://www.kmaantennas.com I have received much appreciated responses to my questions on this and other RF related newsgroups but the ongoing support that Ed has provided me has "blown me away". It is difficult to find people these days who are so eager to go out of their way to provide help without expecting anything in return. Based on this experience, I have no hesitation recommending KMA antennas for anyone who is looking for excellent products with even better customer support. regards David Huisman Article: 225439 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:34:41 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Tom Donaly wrote: > >> There's no such thing as a clear-sky charged-particle problem, either >> in the Arizona desert or anywhere else. > > > You are just showing your extreme ignorance, Tom. Many of > us have experienced exactly that problem. Jim Kelley reported > it just a couple of days ago caused by Santa Anna winds in CA. > > Just because you have never experienced it is irrelevant. > To be consistent, you must also assert that Jesus never > existed because you never met him. O.k., Cecil, prove it experimentally. Many of you may have experienced a problem, but you don't have the foggiest notion of what caused it. Making up causes in your head won't make them real. Making up names, such as "clear-sky charged-particle problem" won't magically prove them. Arguing incessantly doesn't bring them into existence either. The only thing that makes any sense, now that you've made a theory up in your head, is to prove it with a series of experiments that anyone can do to prove, or disprove, the fantasy. If you can't do that, only fools will believe you. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225440 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:49:08 GMT Yuri Blanarovich wrote: > "Tom Donaly" wrote > >>There's no such thing as a clear-sky charged-particle problem, either >>in the Arizona desert or anywhere else. Naming isn't proving. You're >>going to have people blaming their arcing problems on pure fantasy. >>73, >>Tom Donaly, KA6RUH > > > > Ahm, > like there are no molecules of air being moved by the wind and rubbing on > conductive parts? > When part is not grounded, it will not accumulate the charge? > If the charge exceeds dielectric strength of the insulator (connector), the > discharge in form of spark would not happen? > Like ariplanes do not accumulate charge when flying? Or my 72 Buick? > Like Cecil is completely off the rocker making stuff up just to make himself > look foolish? Hmmmmmm! > Too much funny stuff going on here from scientwific community. :-) > > Yuri K3BU > > Would you like to tell me how airplanes accumulate charge, Yuri? Would you like to give me the results of the experiments you're always threatening to do, but never get around to doing? Would you like to explain the triboelectric effect and how it relates to antennas and transmission lines? Perhaps you're an expert on atmospheric electricity and can tell us all about it. I'd especially like to hear how the wind "rubbing on conductive parts" causes noise. Cecil was too chicken to do any meaningful experiments with this, maybe you can inspire us with your courage and show us how it's done. It'll sure beat the tired, old attempts at sarcasm you're always posting here, and probably increase your credibility, too. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225441 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:50:40 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Yuri Blanarovich wrote: > >> I listened to someone's advice: "do not engage in a pissing contest >> with a skunk" > > > How about mud wrestling with pigs? How about learning some experimental technique? 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225442 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 04:45:09 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > The only thing that makes > any sense, now that you've made a theory up in your head, is > to prove it with a series of experiments that anyone can > do to prove, or disprove, the fantasy. If you can't do that, > only fools will believe you. All I am doing is quoting the 2000 ARRL Handbook, Tom. I don't have to prove anything. It is up to you to prove the 2000 ARRL Handbook wrong. Here's what it said: "Precipitation static is an almost continuous hash-type noise that often accompanies various kinds of precipitation, including snowfall. Precipitation static is caused by rain drops, snowflakes or even *wind-blown dust*, transferring a small electrical charge on contact with an antenna." So please prove the ARRL wrong. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225443 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 04:47:14 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > Cecil > was too chicken to do any meaningful experiments with this, ... I don't have to do any experiments, Tom. The ARRL has already done them for me. From the 2000 ARRL Handbook: "Precipitation static is an almost continuous hash-type noise that often accompanies various kinds of precipitation, including snowfall. Precipitation static is caused by rain drops, snowflakes or even *wind-blown dust*, transferring a small electrical charge on contact with an antenna." If you don't agree with the ARRL, please present some proof that they are wrong. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225444 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 04:49:39 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > How about learning some experimental technique? I would if it was necessary, Tom. But I am relying on the 2000 ARRL Handbook just as I rely on it for many facts: "Precipitation static is an almost continuous hash-type noise that often accompanies various kinds of precipitation, including snowfall. Precipitation static is caused by rain drops, snowflakes or even *wind-blown dust*, transferring a small electrical charge on contact with an antenna." The onus is upon you, Tom. Please prove the ARRL to have made false statements. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225445 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:41:00 -0500 Message-ID: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Killg.53523$Lm5.13109@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > The way I got into MENSA during the mid-60's is that a > member of MENSA said if I held Libertarian concepts, I > couldn't possibly possess a high enough IQ to enter MENSA. > That MENSA member paid for my entrance exam and my first > year membership fees. I would now like to make that same > offer to W8JI. > > Tom, I will pay for your MENSA entrance exam and your > first year's dues for membership. If you don't accept > my offer, everyone will know what your problem really > is. > > So, how about it? Take the MENSA exam and report the > results back here. I will pay for everything. What do > you have to lose except face? > -- two observations. 1. MENSA isn't very elite. it's the top two percent (oh wow) and even more than that if you include the chronic retesters who barely make it in. 2. psychometrics are generally garbage. top two percent, i'm soooo impressed. Gravity > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225446 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Killg.53523$Lm5.13109@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > The way I got into MENSA during the mid-60's is that a > member of MENSA said if I held Libertarian concepts, I > couldn't possibly possess a high enough IQ to enter MENSA. > That MENSA member paid for my entrance exam and my first > year membership fees. I would now like to make that same > offer to W8JI. > > Tom, I will pay for your MENSA entrance exam and your > first year's dues for membership. If you don't accept > my offer, everyone will know what your problem really > is. > > So, how about it? Take the MENSA exam and report the > results back here. I will pay for everything. What do > you have to lose except face? > -- yes, but are you smart enough to know that psychometrics are racist garbage, and that MENSA is a bunch of clowns? Gravity > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225447 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:07:14 GMT gravity wrote: > top two percent, i'm soooo impressed. Top 2% is the minimum entrance requirements. Top 0.5% will also get you in. I'm not a member anymore. I would just like to know the IQ of someone who asserts that the elimination of arcing doesn't change the noise level. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225448 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:11:01 -0400 From: "J. D. B." Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicate References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> Not quite. Testing on rules, regulations and technical knowledge is a bit different than testing on one specific mode of communication. I use CW, but considered the continued archaic CW testing requirement to be silly and outdated. It should have been dropped 30 years ago. We give driving tests on the ability to drive the car and follow the regulations. We don't test on the proper operation of a buggy whip or care and feeding of horses. While people still enjoy riding horses and driving around in buggies, they do this of their own free will and no one is forcing it on them through a testing process to get a driver's license. The horse as a general means of transportation is over. We have evolved beyond that, but people still ride horses for fun and enjoyment and the government does have to force it on individuals just in case we ever have to go back to using horses for transportation in an extreme emergency. Cecil Moore wrote: > J. D. B. wrote: >> That is a very good point that I never considered. In thinking about >> it, it makes perfect sense. "Mode Welfare" - too funny. > > You could also consider the written exams to be technical > knowledge welfare and rules and regulations welfare. Article: 225449 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dxAce Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:15:21 -0400 Message-ID: <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> "J. D. B." wrote: > Not quite. Testing on rules, regulations and technical knowledge is a > bit different than testing on one specific mode of communication. I use > CW, but considered the continued archaic CW testing requirement to be > silly and outdated. It should have been dropped 30 years ago. Anybody who can't pass the minimal 5 WPM doesn't deserve a license. dxAce Michigan USA Article: 225450 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:21:35 -0500 Message-ID: <4496971a$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "gravity" wrote in message news:44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net... > > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:Killg.53523$Lm5.13109@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > > The way I got into MENSA during the mid-60's is that a > > member of MENSA said if I held Libertarian concepts, I > > couldn't possibly possess a high enough IQ to enter MENSA. > > That MENSA member paid for my entrance exam and my first > > year membership fees. I would now like to make that same > > offer to W8JI. > > > > Tom, I will pay for your MENSA entrance exam and your > > first year's dues for membership. If you don't accept > > my offer, everyone will know what your problem really > > is. > > > > So, how about it? Take the MENSA exam and report the > > results back here. I will pay for everything. What do > > you have to lose except face? > > -- > > yes, but are you smart enough to know that psychometrics are racist garbage, > and that MENSA is a bunch of clowns? > perhaps this comment was a bit harsh. Gravity Article: 225451 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" Subject: old friend and MENSA Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: <4496a418$0$15990$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> would old friend get accepted to MENSA? Gravity Article: 225452 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: <44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496971a$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:19:36 GMT gravity wrote: > perhaps this comment was a bit harsh. There have been some relatively famous members of MENSA. Isaac Asimov comes to mind. He described members of MENSA as "intellectually combative". -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225453 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:20:15 -0500 Message-ID: <4496a4d6$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Srwlg.46611$fb2.26218@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > gravity wrote: > > top two percent, i'm soooo impressed. > > Top 2% is the minimum entrance requirements. Top > 0.5% will also get you in. I'm not a member anymore. > I would just like to know the IQ of someone who > asserts that the elimination of arcing doesn't > change the noise level. > -- this is true. if you are in the top 0.01%, there are other clubs which may be more suitable. now W8JI does own several relatively expensive towers. IQ is often strongly correlated with financial success (at least below 130 to 140 IQ). so i guess i'm playing devil's advocate, but the guy can't be a complete idiot. take care, Gravity > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225454 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:21:07 -0500 Message-ID: <4496a501$0$16401$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Srwlg.46611$fb2.26218@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > gravity wrote: > > top two percent, i'm soooo impressed. > > Top 2% is the minimum entrance requirements. Top > 0.5% will also get you in. I'm not a member anymore. > I would just like to know the IQ of someone who > asserts that the elimination of arcing doesn't > change the noise level. > -- W8JI really said that?! i've only taken a few quarters of electromagnetics, but that sounds kind of crazy. i better keep up with that thread. Gravity > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225455 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:22:54 -0500 Message-ID: <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:D1qlg.53857$Lm5.4827@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > Tom Donaly wrote: > > How about learning some experimental technique? > > I would if it was necessary, Tom. But I am relying on > the 2000 ARRL Handbook just as I rely on it for many > facts: > > "Precipitation static is an almost continuous hash-type noise > that often accompanies various kinds of precipitation, including > snowfall. Precipitation static is caused by rain drops, snowflakes > or even *wind-blown dust*, transferring a small electrical charge > on contact with an antenna." > > The onus is upon you, Tom. Please prove the ARRL to have made > false statements. > -- Cecil, the ARRL handbook is *not* an academic journal. it's fine to quote >from it, but it's also not the definitive work of electromagnetic theory. Gravity > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225456 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:24:13 -0500 Message-ID: <4496a5bb$0$64664$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> i've solved it. i had to spend about two hours with Maxwell's equations, but i figured it out. and i compensated for effects of quantum field theory and relativity. Gravity Article: 225457 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:48:54 GMT gravity wrote: > Cecil, the ARRL handbook is *not* an academic journal. it's fine to quote > from it, but it's also not the definitive work of electromagnetic theory. But it is "The Bible" of Amateur Radio and this is an Amateur Radio newsgroup. Anyone disagreeing with the 2000 ARRL Handbook should be able to quote some technical references to the contrary. Where are the technical references that contradict the 2000 ARRL Handbook statements on "precipitation static"? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225458 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: AB2RC Subject: Re: Copper tubing capacitors References: <1150493095.604886.118330@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:49:07 GMT On 2006-06-16, n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > fixed-tuned networks as my intent for this antenna is to be set up in > the middle of a field in the clear at the same height all the time, and > I want to have FAST bandswitching. > > An autotuner really isn't in the cards financially, and needs power. > > So, inductors are easy. I've got 500 feet of #10 copper wire. > > I need capacitors. Preferably very very cheap ones, and I guess I need You have 500' of wire -- why bother with any switching/matching networks? Just cut dipoles for each band and feed them off of the same feedline. -- Alex/AB2RC Article: 225459 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496a4d6$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:54:28 GMT gravity wrote: > so i > guess i'm playing devil's advocate, but the guy can't be a complete idiot. How about idiot savant? :-) What would you say about someone who used the lumped inductance feature in EZNEC to try to prove zero delay through a real world 75m bugcatcher coil? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225460 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <4496AC9A.4080600@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:54:34 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: Cecil Moore wrote: > The way I got into MENSA during the mid-60's is that a > member of MENSA said if I held Libertarian concepts, I > couldn't possibly possess a high enough IQ to enter MENSA. > That MENSA member paid for my entrance exam and my first > year membership fees. I would now like to make that same > offer to W8JI. > > Tom, I will pay for your MENSA entrance exam and your > first year's dues for membership. If you don't accept > my offer, everyone will know what your problem really > is. > > So, how about it? Take the MENSA exam and report the > results back here. I will pay for everything. What do > you have to lose except face? So, you're saying Libertarianism and MENSA are NOT oxymoronic? Are you then saying both are moronic? :) Article: 225461 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <4496ADA7.5050100@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:59:03 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Have any of you mailed this to your ARRL Division directors and References: <448B2227.2090601@fuse.net> <4H6jg.28755$QP4.3723@fed1read12> <1150233801.005719.10130@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <448f24f3$0$3637$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <1150251718.568473.33200@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150290491.183029.98440@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150299729.125596.232630@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1150367943.972060.219270@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150378975.699764.236800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150452388.504196.43150@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1150457005.857466.114530@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1150575890.532370.40940@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150581833.306643.237700@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150721654.164712.106260@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> markie_morgan_rapesboys@yahoo.com wrote: > an old freind wrote: > >>kb9rqz_child_molester@yahoo.com wrote: >> >>>an old friend wrote: >>> >>>>markie_morgan_rapesboys@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> no AIDS here >> >>>>>Liar. >>>> >>>>no aids here >>> >>>Liar. >> >>get > > Get help for your lying. > Why don't you guys get a room? Article: 225462 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Yuri Blanarovich" References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:33:35 -0400 I don't have time to engage in pissing contests. There are some people here who "argue" that something is not so, because they have a theory that "it can't be". Most of my arguments or descriptions are based on reality that I or others observed and can be duplicated. If you or anyone doesn't believe in them, you can duplicate them and see for yourself. I will gladly provide details. I am not employed or reporting to this esteemed RRAA NG, so it is at the end of my list of priorities. Some of the misconceptions are duly noted and in due time, when I have time to sit down and write it up, I will do so. The point is, that if Cecil has seen sparks coming from his coax under clear AZ skies, or I have seen that small loop antenna shield DOES suppress local interference - measured, seen, experienced - than arguing by scientwists is just foolish, if not pathetic. Who's "credibility" are we then talking about? I do not proclaim to be a scientist who spent tax dollars investigating phenomena and formulating rock solid theories as why. I am more of real engineer, who when sees some erroneous stuff posted, and I know it to be otherwise, I say my piece. Isn't it interesting that real engineers get hammered on tangents by scientwists who are wrong and are trying to justify their "truth" by some mumbo-jumbo and obfuscating the real subject? If that's what turns them on, than they can have a field day with it. "It'll sure beat the tired, old attempts at sarcasm you're always posting here" Oh, that's what it is!? 73 Yuri Blanarovich, K3BU, VE3BMV "Tom Donaly" wrote in message news:U8plg.149272$F_3.3879@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > Yuri Blanarovich wrote: > >> "Tom Donaly" wrote >> >>>There's no such thing as a clear-sky charged-particle problem, either >>>in the Arizona desert or anywhere else. Naming isn't proving. You're >>>going to have people blaming their arcing problems on pure fantasy. >>>73, >>>Tom Donaly, KA6RUH >> >> >> >> Ahm, >> like there are no molecules of air being moved by the wind and rubbing on >> conductive parts? >> When part is not grounded, it will not accumulate the charge? >> If the charge exceeds dielectric strength of the insulator (connector), >> the discharge in form of spark would not happen? >> Like ariplanes do not accumulate charge when flying? Or my 72 Buick? >> Like Cecil is completely off the rocker making stuff up just to make >> himself look foolish? Hmmmmmm! >> Too much funny stuff going on here from scientwific community. :-) >> >> Yuri K3BU > > Would you like to tell me how airplanes accumulate charge, Yuri? Would you > like to give me the results of the experiments you're always > threatening to do, but never get around to doing? Would you like > to explain the triboelectric effect and how it relates to antennas > and transmission lines? Perhaps you're an expert on atmospheric > electricity and can tell us all about it. I'd especially like to > hear how the wind "rubbing on conductive parts" causes noise. Cecil > was too chicken to do any meaningful experiments with this, maybe you > can inspire us with your courage and show us how it's done. It'll > sure beat the tired, old attempts at sarcasm you're always posting here, > and probably increase your credibility, too. > 73, > Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225463 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:12:21 -0500 Message-ID: <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "an old freind" wrote in message news:1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > dxAce wrote: > > "J. D. B." wrote: > > > > > Not quite. Testing on rules, regulations and technical knowledge is a > > > bit different than testing on one specific mode of communication. I use > > > CW, but considered the continued archaic CW testing requirement to be > > > silly and outdated. It should have been dropped 30 years ago. > > > > Anybody who can't pass the minimal 5 WPM doesn't deserve a license. > why? > > and it isn't a matter f "deserving" alicense at all is about meeting > the legal mandaable requirement and now absent the treaty the code > fails to make the standards of law and the FCC knows even if you don't > > > > dxAce > > Michigan > > USA > 5 WPM is easy. esp if you use Farnsworth. i'm at 18 WPM, and i can copy contest exchanges at 30 WPM. i haven't made a CW QSO in 10 years! i think the code requirement should be 13 WPM plus for the upper classes. keeps the riff raff out. Gravity Article: 225464 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" Subject: ULF antennas Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:14:52 -0500 Message-ID: <4496bfaa$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> i've been considering an antenna for the audio frequency range plus 1 to 20 hz. basically a big coil would work. i've thought about using a steel drum, but i don't have room for that in my new QTH. mu metal rods would be very expensive, even ferrite would be expensive for an 100,000 turn antenna. not sure what to use. maybe steel core. Gravity Article: 225465 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: BILL GRIESCH -K2WDG Subject: i want to know the length of a 6m dipole Message-ID: <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:33:24 -0400 wondering if someone can provide me with the length or the plans of a 6m dipole.. i have 6m's but i dont have the room to put up a full blowen ant i think that a dipole would work fo me please email at k2wdg@k2wdg with any information thanks in advance bill k2wdgh Article: 225466 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4%ykg.45048$fb2.29105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <6Dzlg.25605$VE1.14874@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:44:02 GMT gravity wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:D1qlg.53857$Lm5.4827@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > >>Tom Donaly wrote: >> >>>How about learning some experimental technique? >> >>I would if it was necessary, Tom. But I am relying on >>the 2000 ARRL Handbook just as I rely on it for many >>facts: >> >>"Precipitation static is an almost continuous hash-type noise >>that often accompanies various kinds of precipitation, including >>snowfall. Precipitation static is caused by rain drops, snowflakes >>or even *wind-blown dust*, transferring a small electrical charge >>on contact with an antenna." >> >>The onus is upon you, Tom. Please prove the ARRL to have made >>false statements. >>-- > > > Cecil, the ARRL handbook is *not* an academic journal. it's fine to quote > from it, but it's also not the definitive work of electromagnetic theory. > > Gravity > > >>73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > > It's also a poor substitute for experimentation. Even people who actually could think rationally, like Maxwell, Faraday, and the others, had to base their theories on experimental evidence. Of course, since Cecil once belonged to Mensa, all he has to do is think something to make it true. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225467 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <4496d630$0$5272$636a55ce@news.free.fr> From: F8BOE Subject: Re: i want to know the length of a 6m dipole Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:52:09 +0200 References: <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga> physical or electrical? With such a question I'm wondering what "technician licence class" means... BTW looking at your mail address, I think I'll rather send anything via eqsl. Or perhaps did I miss something? My English is not really perfect. Keep on trying. BILL GRIESCH -K2WDG trolled: > wondering if someone can provide me with the length or the plans of a > 6m dipole.. i have 6m's but i dont have the room to put up a full blowen > ant i think that a dipole would work fo me > > please email at k2wdg@k2wdg with any information > > thanks in advance > > bill k2wdgh Article: 225468 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <4496d908$0$22866$626a54ce@news.free.fr> From: F8BOE Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:04:16 +0200 References: Hello, That's true at UHF but it should be OK at least for the 2m band depending on the PVC type. The better choice is PTFE but it's not really cheap! Another alternative is glass fiber (or wood). 73 de F8BOE Olivier ...-.- Al Dykes wrote: > > > > A friend is telling me that PVC has crappy electrical characteristics > and having my wire against it for the entire antenna not good. > > I've been making simple VHF antennas with small diameter PVC pipe cut > and glued to make the rigid structure and then taping 12ga copper wire > to the PVC to make the elements. > > Should I switch to something else ? > Article: 225469 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Ken Bessler" Subject: BNC power capacity Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:11:07 -0500 How much power can a BNC handle? rg58 coax, 1.3:1 swr, say, 54mhz, indoor connection. I'm using a BNC jumper between my amp and my antenna switch. I use BNC so I can d/c quickly when a t-storm comes in the area. -- 73's de Ken KG0WX - Kadiddlehopper #11808, Flying Pigs #-1055, Grid EM17io, FT-857D, Elecraft XG2, 4SQRP Tenna Dipper, Heath GD-1B Article: 225470 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496a4d6$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:26:17 -0500 Message-ID: <4496de77$0$15725$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:lXzlg.119380$dW3.548@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com... > Tom Donaly wrote: > > Anyone who thinks that there is a test that measures "intelligence" > > isn't smart enough to belong to Mensa. > > What is measured is IQ (intelligence quotient). The > field of IQ measurements is approximately as mature > as the field of radio having been around for more > than a century. > psychiatry has been around hundreds of years and it's still considered primitive by many. relativity has also been around 100 years, and it's still pretty damn speculative. and IQ is not intelligence. it has a 0.9 correlation with g factor as i recall. psychometrics have biases too. for instance, if the test uses the term "quarter" as a unit of currency, the test is tied to the US and a few other countries. a test that uses integer sequences like the Fibonacci is going to be easier for a mathematician, who is trained to look for those patterns. a test which uses analogies from 18th century English literature is not going to be accessible to some people from Asia. i could go on and on. some of my criticism is not leveled at Stanford-Binet, but psychometrics in general. also, i'd hope that whoever wrote the test is significantly smarter than me. if not, what is the point? that dumb people can invent questions that i can't answer? Gravity > http://www.us.mensa.org http://www.mensa.org.uk > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225471 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga> Subject: Re: i want to know the length of a 6m dipole Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:30:36 -0500 Message-ID: <4496df7b$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "BILL GRIESCH -K2WDG" wrote in message news:9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga... > wondering if someone can provide me with the length or the plans of a > 6m dipole.. i have 6m's but i dont have the room to put up a full blowen > ant i think that a dipole would work fo me > > please email at k2wdg@k2wdg with any information > > thanks in advance > > bill k2wdgh the general rule is L = 234/F, where F is the frequency in megahertz, and L is the length of a quarter wave element in feet. this is a strange troll, can't you come up with something better? Gravity Article: 225472 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: From: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. References: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:35:02 GMT In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Earl the pearl wrote: > Dear Mr President: > The FCC has been dumbing down ham radio for several years now. This has > hurt the integrity of the service and is bad for America. They are > planning to dumb it down again really soon now and their plan will make > ham radio like CB and it will be bad for America. We already have one CB > service on HF, we don't need two. Please pressure the FCC to endorse the > following items for the good of the service and America. I wish you could > run again for a third term, I would vote for you. I'm glad Al Gore wasn't > able to steal the election, and John Kerry would have been a disaster, he'd > be kissing terrorist butts and brown nosing them. Thanks for the fine > job you're doing protecting and leading America. > Signed > (Your name & callsign) > No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all elements > required for their license class. > The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. > Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra. > Make the no-code license one year non-renewable. I'm sure this very erudite letter, full of specific facts and the results of many studies to prove it's point will immediately cause the President to put aside all petty concerns (like the Middle East, energy problems, changes in Medicare, investigations of members of his party and staff, Iran's nuclear program, North Korea's ICBM test, etc.) and order the FCC to get rid of all no code Hams. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. Article: 225473 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Voltage vs. Current Balun - OCF Dipole References: <1150683368.339372.191010@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150727363.929399.266860@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150734743.283669.272940@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:35:09 GMT KC2PIH@gmail.com wrote: > Is the 22' > length of the coax of the Windom critical or is that just a minimum > length? I suspect it comes from the fact that 22 feet is very close to 5/8WL on 28 MHz. If the vertical section were made any longer, it might result in high angle radiation on 10m. They probably also figure the antenna will be mounted at least 25 feet in the air. > Also, if the coax is burried right below the balun at ground > level, does this at all act like a choke? Burying probably dissipates common-mode power but if it's dissipated, it's not radiated. Best to force that energy into the antenna where it belongs. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225474 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496a4d6$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:36:37 GMT "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:lXzlg.119380$dW3.548@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com... > Tom Donaly wrote: >> Anyone who thinks that there is a test that measures "intelligence" >> isn't smart enough to belong to Mensa. > > What is measured is IQ (intelligence quotient). The > field of IQ measurements is approximately as mature > as the field of radio having been around for more > than a century. > > http://www.us.mensa.org http://www.mensa.org.uk > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Hi Cecil The "joke" about the lizard in the mensa site http://www.us.mensa.org is certainly enough to make me want to back away from any organization that writes about a lizard then expects you to laugh because it isnt a lizard. I can see why you would let your membership expire. Jerry Article: 225475 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496a4d6$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496de77$0$15725$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:42:43 GMT gravity wrote: > psychometrics have biases too. for instance, if the test uses the term > "quarter" as a unit of currency, the test is tied to the US and a few other > countries. As a matter of fact, I took both the American and English IQ tests when I took the MENSA tests. My percentile rating was twice as good on the American test with its dollars and cents as it was on the English test with its pounds and shillings. Obviously, those tests are biased. The English language is a prerequisite, for instance. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225476 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:46:22 GMT Earl the pearl wrote: > I'm glad Al Gore wasn't > able to steal the election, and John Kerry would have been a disaster, he'd > be kissing terrorist butts and brown nosing them. And please, President Bush, don't allow the FCC to issue an amateur radio license to illiterates. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225477 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? Message-ID: References: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:47:01 GMT On 18 Jun 2006 12:29:52 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote: > > > >A friend is telling me that PVC has crappy electrical characteristics >and having my wire against it for the entire antenna not good. > >I've been making simple VHF antennas with small diameter PVC pipe cut >and glued to make the rigid structure and then taping 12ga copper wire >to the PVC to make the elements. > >Should I switch to something else ? I've used it up to 70cm and its an acceptable insulator. For quads it's fine and same for use as booms. If your putting the antenn inside of it the dialetric constant will require pruning the antenna back to the desired frequency but I've not seen any other problems. There is one problem to note: most PVC (white PVC or the CPVC) is only OK for moderate UV exposure and will get brittle after a few years of exposure. The grey type is a different anumal and I can't speak to that. Allison Article: 225478 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net Subject: Re: i want to know the length of a 6m dipole Message-ID: References: <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga> <4496df7b$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:53:30 GMT On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:30:36 -0500, "gravity" wrote: > >"BILL GRIESCH -K2WDG" wrote in message >news:9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga... >> wondering if someone can provide me with the length or the plans of a >> 6m dipole.. i have 6m's but i dont have the room to put up a full blowen >> ant i think that a dipole would work fo me >> >> please email at k2wdg@k2wdg with any information >> >> thanks in advance >> >> bill k2wdgh > >the general rule is L = 234/F, where F is the frequency in megahertz, and L >is the length of a quarter wave element in feet. > >this is a strange troll, can't you come up with something better? > >Gravity > Ok first a dipole not a monopole length. the dipole is 486/f References: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:54:13 GMT On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:11:07 -0500, "Ken Bessler" wrote: >How much power can a BNC handle? rg58 coax, 1.3:1 swr, >say, 54mhz, indoor connection. I'm using a BNC jumper between >my amp and my antenna switch. I use BNC so I can d/c quickly >when a t-storm comes in the area. Comfortable at 100W, I doubt more would be reasonable. Allison Article: 225480 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496a4d6$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:01:06 GMT Jerry Martes wrote: > The "joke" about the lizard in the mensa site http://www.us.mensa.org is > certainly enough to make me want to back away from any organization that > writes about a lizard then expects you to laugh because it isnt a lizard. A lizard is a reptile. Isn't a newt an amphibian? > I can see why you would let your membership expire. MENSA doesn't offer senior discounts. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225481 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:03:02 -0500 Owen Duffy wrote: > > I was taught (in imperial units) to differentiate mass (pound) and > force (pound-force). That learning stood me well when we changed to SI > (metric) part way through school. > You were taught wrong. If you use pounds in a formula that wants mass such as F=M*A you will get the wrong answer. So lets say you weigh 200 lbs on earth where A = 32 ft/sec^2. You can then calculate your mass by solving for M = F/A or 200/32 = 6.25. When you are doing physical calculations it is very important to use the correct units, other wise you calculations are meaningless. Suppose you want to know what you will weigh on the moon where the acceleration due to gravity is 5.25 ft/sec^2. F = M*A if you use 200 for your mass you get, 200 * 5.25 = 1050, that indicates you would weigh 1050 lbs on the moon. Which is clearly wrong. Trying again with the correct units and you get, 6.25 * 5.25 = 32.8, now that sounds more like what you would weight on the moon. In the non scientific world, where the metric unit KG is used for weight, M=F*A works just fine if you put what you call "weight" in KG in for M in the formula. It's arguable which method is better, using mass or force units for weight. What you want to know is do you need to change your weight, if the doctor tells you that you need to loose weight, that's easy just move to the moon, done. What he really wants is for you to loose mass. So your weight (force) can change with gravity, but your mass doesn't change. Unless of course you loose weight ;) -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, >from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com Article: 225482 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> Subject: Re: BNC power capacity References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:17:42 -0500 nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:11:07 -0500, "Ken Bessler" > wrote: > > >>How much power can a BNC handle? rg58 coax, 1.3:1 swr, >>say, 54mhz, indoor connection. I'm using a BNC jumper between >>my amp and my antenna switch. I use BNC so I can d/c quickly >>when a t-storm comes in the area. > > > Comfortable at 100W, I doubt more would be reasonable. > > Allison I don't know that answer either but I'm sure it is higher than that. I have seen coaxial relays with SMA connectors that can handle 400 watts at a higher frequency than 50 Mhz. Also get an N connector and a BNC connector and do a close comparison of the pin and the shield inside the connector. They look pretty close. In fact an N male will connect to a BNC female, just no way to hold them together. The other way around doesn't work because the BNC retention housing gets in the way. -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, >from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com Article: 225483 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:56:37 -0500 Message-ID: <4496f3a2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Chris W" <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote in message news:rFBlg.57799$9c6.28215@dukeread11... > Owen Duffy wrote: > > > > > I was taught (in imperial units) to differentiate mass (pound) and > > force (pound-force). That learning stood me well when we changed to SI > > (metric) part way through school. > > > > You were taught wrong. If you use pounds in a formula that wants mass > such as F=M*A you will get the wrong answer. F = MA F = 1 pound * 32 feet/s^2 F = 32 pound*feet/s^2 you will note that pound(mass)* feet/s^2 is NOT the pound force unit. the pound force unit is slug*feet/s^2. there is nothing wrong with the pound mass unit per se. you alluded to slugs. F = MA F = 1 slug * 32 feet/s^2 F = 32 slugs*feet/s^2 = 32 pounds anyone else having flashbacks to particle dynamics class? Gravity So lets say you weigh 200 > lbs on earth where A = 32 ft/sec^2. You can then calculate your mass by > solving for M = F/A or 200/32 = 6.25. > > When you are doing physical calculations it is very important to use the > correct units, other wise you calculations are meaningless. Suppose you > want to know what you will weigh on the moon where the acceleration due > to gravity is 5.25 ft/sec^2. F = M*A if you use 200 for your mass you > get, 200 * 5.25 = 1050, that indicates you would weigh 1050 lbs on the > moon. Which is clearly wrong. Trying again with the correct units and > you get, 6.25 * 5.25 = 32.8, now that sounds more like what you would > weight on the moon. > > In the non scientific world, where the metric unit KG is used for > weight, M=F*A works just fine if you put what you call "weight" in KG in > for M in the formula. > > It's arguable which method is better, using mass or force units for > weight. What you want to know is do you need to change your weight, if > the doctor tells you that you need to loose weight, that's easy just > move to the moon, done. What he really wants is for you to loose mass. > So your weight (force) can change with gravity, but your mass doesn't > change. Unless of course you loose weight ;) > > > -- > Chris W > KE5GIX > > Gift Giving Made Easy > Get the gifts you want & > give the gifts they want > One stop wish list for any gift, > from anywhere, for any occasion! > http://thewishzone.com Article: 225484 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:01:37 -0700 Message-ID: <129dt4k72vlv478@corp.supernews.com> References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Chris W wrote: > Owen Duffy wrote: > >> >> I was taught (in imperial units) to differentiate mass (pound) and >> force (pound-force). That learning stood me well when we changed to SI >> (metric) part way through school. >> > > You were taught wrong. If you use pounds in a formula that wants mass > such as F=M*A you will get the wrong answer. So lets say you weigh 200 > lbs on earth where A = 32 ft/sec^2. You can then calculate your mass by > solving for M = F/A or 200/32 = 6.25. . . That's 6.25 pounds mass, I presume, for someone weighing 200 pounds force. In my entire engineering school curriculum, I had only two courses which didn't use the metric system, Statics and Dynamics, taught by the civil engineering department. I have vague recollections of pounds force, pounds mass, slugs, and poundals. As often as not, my answers were off by g^2, since I never could remember which ones already had gravitational acceleration built in and which didn't. But I developed a method to deal with it. When presented with a problem, I first converted everything to SI units. Then I solved the problem and converted the answer back to U.S. units. What a horrible system! My hat's off to the Canadians, who had the will to convert, and established -- and stuck with -- a systematic program to do it. What the U.S. did was to declare the metric system to be official ("Mission Accomplished!") and change whiskey bottles from fifths to 750 ml (which was promoted by the booze industry because it made the bottles just a little smaller and they could charge the same price). Wow. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 225485 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:03:53 -0500 Message-ID: <4496f557$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Owen Duffy" wrote in message news:eplb9259miilel08q2oo922bt7lv1ln527@4ax.com... > On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:10:56 -0500, "gravity" > wrote: > > > >> Given the looseness of use of the unit lb to specify mass and > >> (incorrectly) force, it is a bit ambiguous... but he probably means > >> mass. > > > >lbs is always force as far as i know. slugs is mass. > > > >so long as we are confined to the planet earth, there is no difference > >really. 1 kg (mass) always weighs 2.2 lbs (force). obviously if you go to > >the moon ... > > > >kilogram, slug -- mass > >newton, pound -- force > > > > I was taught (in imperial units) to differentiate mass (pound) and > force (pound-force). That learning stood me well when we changed to SI > (metric) part way through school. > > Practice may be different in different places, but I suspect that it > is laxness on the part of practitioners who refer to force in units of > pounds. > > I just had a look at Wikipedia (which isn't the oracle), here is their > summary: > > "The pound is the name of a number of units of mass, all in the range > of 300 to 600 grams. Most commonly, it refers to the avoirdupois pound > (exactly 453.59237 g), divided into 16 avoirdupois ounces. There is > also a unit of force corresponding to the avoirdupois pound, see > pound-force." > > Wikpedia highlights just another aspect of the unit, its flexibility! > > Owen > PS: a slug is a unit of mass, and equivalent to about 14.6Kg or > 32.2lbs. I don't think it is in wide use! > -- i first heard of slugs at age 7, but i've never seen them used in an engineering class. we used SI almost exclusively in university and high school. i was taught there that pounds is a unit of force (not mass). however Wikipedia claims pounds is a standardized unit of mass, not force. so we are both right really. as i've noted in another post, 1 slug at in Earth's gravitational field is ~ 32 pounds, so it's a convenient unit to use. so basically if NIST (or whoever) defines it as mass, then we are stuck with it. "honey do i look fat in this dress?" "no baby, you are no more than 5 slugs or so." Gravity Article: 225486 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:07:52 -0500 Message-ID: <4496f646$0$79689$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> just a note, "charged particle" normally refers to a fermion like an electron or proton. "charged dust particle" might be a better term. Gravity Article: 225487 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1150465658.751015.125570@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <44955220$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <1150638540.988006.226840@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150657421.049052.304610@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <1150657683.412603.47230@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <5Tnlg.119290$dW3.7607@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:09:54 -0500 Message-ID: <4496f6bf$0$16281$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote in message news:oBylg.15$JV6.12@fe11.lga... > The point is, that if Cecil has seen sparks coming from his coax under clear > AZ skies, or I have seen that small loop antenna shield DOES suppress local > interference - measured, seen, experienced - than arguing by scientwists is > just foolish, if not pathetic. it's not dust particles, it's probably WIMPs or neutrinos. or an evaporating graviton passing from another universe into ours. Gravity Article: 225488 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129dt4k72vlv478@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:44:31 -0500 Roy Lewallen wrote: > > > Chris W wrote: > >> Owen Duffy wrote: >> >>> >>> I was taught (in imperial units) to differentiate mass (pound) and >>> force (pound-force). That learning stood me well when we changed to SI >>> (metric) part way through school. >>> >> >> You were taught wrong. If you use pounds in a formula that wants mass >> such as F=M*A you will get the wrong answer. So lets say you weigh >> 200 lbs on earth where A = 32 ft/sec^2. You can then calculate your >> mass by solving for M = F/A or 200/32 = 6.25. . . > > > That's 6.25 pounds mass, I presume, for someone weighing 200 pounds force. No, it is 6.25 slugs of mass. There is no such thing as pounds of mass. Sorry for leaving off the units in my last post. Just because someone says x KG of force or x lbs of mass doesn't mean that KG can be force and pounds can be mass. Distance: Meter, Feet Force: Newton, Pound Mass: KG, Slug Time: Second, Second (Can you imagine if there were different time units in each system?) All other units are derived from these. Actually Newtons and Pounds can be derived from time, mass and distance. 1 newton = 1 KG*M/s^2 and 1 pound = 1 slug*ft/s^2. Which brings us right back to that fundamental formula F = M*A, 200 lbs = 6.25 slugs * 32 ft/sec^2. -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, >from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com Article: 225489 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496f557$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:48:46 -0500 gravity wrote: > > i first heard of slugs at age 7, but i've never seen them used in an > engineering class. > > we used SI almost exclusively in university and high school. i was taught > there that pounds is a unit of force (not mass). however Wikipedia claims > pounds is a standardized unit of mass, not force. I don't care who says pounds is a unit of mass, they are wrong! If you use pounds in a formula that wants mass, your answer will be WRONG. -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, >from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com Article: 225490 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:50:55 -0700 Message-ID: References: <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Tom Donaly wrote: > Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil? Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-) 73, ac6xg Article: 225491 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net Subject: Re: BNC power capacity Message-ID: References: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:58:13 GMT On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:17:42 -0500, Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote: >nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: >> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:11:07 -0500, "Ken Bessler" >> wrote: >> >> >>>How much power can a BNC handle? rg58 coax, 1.3:1 swr, >>>say, 54mhz, indoor connection. I'm using a BNC jumper between >>>my amp and my antenna switch. I use BNC so I can d/c quickly >>>when a t-storm comes in the area. >> >> >> Comfortable at 100W, I doubt more would be reasonable. >> >> Allison > > >I don't know that answer either but I'm sure it is higher than that. I >have seen coaxial relays with SMA connectors that can handle 400 watts >at a higher frequency than 50 Mhz. Also get an N connector and a BNC >connector and do a close comparison of the pin and the shield inside the >connector. They look pretty close. In fact an N male will connect to a >BNC female, just no way to hold them together. The other way around >doesn't work because the BNC retention housing gets in the way. And how much power can RG58 take? You have to look at the connector and cable as a whole not their parts. Also I feel comfortable at 100W, it' could be good for more but thats not my comfort . Though I have used them at 500W for short periods (testing only). As to the type N, internally the connector is designed for more current (more contact surface) and also a a larger reciever on the pin for fatter cables like .400 stuff (rg213) types. Allison Article: 225492 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Brian Howie Subject: Re: i want to know the length of a 6m dipole Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:12:39 +0100 Message-ID: References: <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga> In message <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga>, BILL GRIESCH -K2WDG writes >wondering if someone can provide me with the length or the plans of a >6m dipole.. i have 6m's but i dont have the room to put up a full >blowen ant i think that a dipole would work fo me > >please email at k2wdg@k2wdg with any information > >thanks in advance > >bill k2wdgh By chance I made one at the weekend. 113.5", 1/2 " diam ali tubing. I used the yoke of an old TV CRT as a choke balun with a few turns of UR67. If you don't have space, a simple cubical quad is pretty compact. 73 Brian GM4DIJ -- Brian Howie Article: 225493 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129dt4k72vlv478@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:18:29 -0500 Message-ID: <449706d3$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Chris W" <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote in message news:z8Dlg.57804$9c6.44111@dukeread11... > Roy Lewallen wrote: > > > > > > Chris W wrote: > > > >> Owen Duffy wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> I was taught (in imperial units) to differentiate mass (pound) and > >>> force (pound-force). That learning stood me well when we changed to SI > >>> (metric) part way through school. > >>> > >> > >> You were taught wrong. If you use pounds in a formula that wants mass > >> such as F=M*A you will get the wrong answer. So lets say you weigh > >> 200 lbs on earth where A = 32 ft/sec^2. You can then calculate your > >> mass by solving for M = F/A or 200/32 = 6.25. . . > > > > > > That's 6.25 pounds mass, I presume, for someone weighing 200 pounds force. > > No, it is 6.25 slugs of mass. There is no such thing as pounds of mass. please read Wikipedia. Owen is correct. pounds are firstly a unit of mass, and secondly a unit of force. Wikipedia cites several sources. 200 pounds of mass weighs approximately 200 pounds of force on the surface of Earth. 1 slug is 32 pounds of force on the Earth. pounds-mass is standardized to kilograms, which are in turn standardized to an alloy bar or other methods. Gravity > Sorry for leaving off the units in my last post. Just because > someone says x KG of force or x lbs of mass doesn't mean that KG can be > force and pounds can be mass. > > > Distance: > Meter, Feet > Force: > Newton, Pound > Mass: > KG, Slug > Time: > Second, Second (Can you imagine if there were different time units in > each system?) > > > All other units are derived from these. Actually Newtons and Pounds can > be derived from time, mass and distance. 1 newton = 1 KG*M/s^2 and 1 > pound = 1 slug*ft/s^2. Which brings us right back to that fundamental > formula F = M*A, 200 lbs = 6.25 slugs * 32 ft/sec^2. > > > -- > Chris W > KE5GIX > > Gift Giving Made Easy > Get the gifts you want & > give the gifts they want > One stop wish list for any gift, > from anywhere, for any occasion! > http://thewishzone.com Article: 225494 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129dt4k72vlv478@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:24:00 -0500 Message-ID: <4497081e$0$79450$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> everyone who is arguing that pounds is not a unit of mass, please see: https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/archives/2002/07_2002/msg00062.html this post cites a NIST publication, which is definitive for the USA. there is no room for argument. if you don't live in the USA, well a pound can be anything you wish it to be. Gravity Article: 225495 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: ULF antennas References: <4496bfaa$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:34:56 GMT gravity wrote: > i've been considering an antenna for the audio frequency range plus 1 to 20 > hz. basically a big coil would work. > > i've thought about using a steel drum, but i don't have room for that in my > new QTH. mu metal rods would be very expensive, even ferrite would be > expensive for an 100,000 turn antenna. > > not sure what to use. maybe steel core. > > Gravity > > "Detecting Natural Electromagnetic Waves," The Amateur Scientist, Shawn Carlson, Scientific American, May, 1996. 50,000 turns #30 wire on 1/2 inch rebar, 2 feet long. You'll have to make your own amplifier and low pass filter. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225496 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496f557$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:32:47 -0500 Message-ID: <44970af5$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Chris W" <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote in message news:zcDlg.57805$9c6.18712@dukeread11... > gravity wrote: > > > > > i first heard of slugs at age 7, but i've never seen them used in an > > engineering class. > > > > we used SI almost exclusively in university and high school. i was taught > > there that pounds is a unit of force (not mass). however Wikipedia claims > > pounds is a standardized unit of mass, not force. > > > I don't care who says pounds is a unit of mass, they are wrong! If you > use pounds in a formula that wants mass, your answer will be WRONG. > please read the NIST publications which define the Avoirdupois pound in terms of kilograms. this is not debateable since NIST is *the* authority in the US. Gravity > -- > Chris W > KE5GIX > > Gift Giving Made Easy > Get the gifts you want & > give the gifts they want > One stop wish list for any gift, > from anywhere, for any occasion! > http://thewishzone.com Article: 225497 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:36:07 -0500 Message-ID: <44970af6$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Howard W3CQH" wrote in message news:E9ydnYblkdLUmArZnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@adelphia.com... > Thanks to all that have answered my original post - but the information that > I seek has not been answered. > > I understand that section 207 of the FCC telecomm act 1996 contains > information that I might be able to use to help me in this matter. Where > can I obtain a copy of Section 207? I cannot find it posted on the FCC > website! > if such things are critical in your application, hire an engineer or contact Create, Tennadyne, or manufacturers of commercial logs. i'm sure those companies can build something for you. Gravity > Thanks, > > > > "Howard W3CQH" wrote in message > news:DvmdnX0ALIEzxQnZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@adelphia.com... > > Looking for specs on any log periodic antenna that covers 50Mhz - 1300Mhz, > > (Ham variety). Specs must also contain that it can withstand 80MPH wind > > and 30 Lbs of ICE? > > > > Thanks and best DXin. > > > > de Howard W3CQH > > > > > > > > Article: 225498 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <7_Dlg.69518$4L1.60336@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:41:39 GMT Jim Kelley wrote: > > > Tom Donaly wrote: > > >> Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil? > > > Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-) > > 73, ac6xg > Yes, and I've heard of Thales of Miletus, too, and both of those gentlemen would have agreed with Tom Rauch because both knew the value of experimentation and experience. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225499 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496f557$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <44970af5$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:10:54 GMT gravity wrote: > please read the NIST publications which define the Avoirdupois pound in > terms of kilograms. this is not debateable since NIST is *the* authority in > the US. The NIST publications define the numeric conversion factors, not the legality for use of any particular terminology. The approximate conversion factor for a pound (mass) is 0.4535924 kilogram. The approximate conversion for a pound (force) is 4.448222 newton. The gravitational acceleration, small g, is defined as exactly 9.80665 in SI units, but it is not similarly defined in inch/pound units. Interestingly enough, however, is that the ratio of pound-force per pound (lbf/lb) (thrust to mass ratio) is exactly converted to newton per kilogram (N/kg) by the factor 9.80665. The position of the US Government can be summarized from the following excerpt found in Federal Standard 376B, Preferred Metric Units for General Use by the Federal Government. In the intro to the section on mass there is a note that says, *** There is ambiguity in the use of the term "weight" to mean either force or mass. In general usage, the term "weight" nearly always means mass and this is the meaning given the term in U.S. laws and regulations. Where the term is so used, weight is expressed in kilograms in SI. In many fields of science and technology the term "weight" is defined as the force of gravity acting on an object, i.e., as the product of the mass of the object and the local acceleration of gravity. Where weight is so defined, it is expressed in newtons in SI. *** The document then goes on to show many conversion factors from both pounds (mass) and pounds (force) to SI units. No indication that one is more legal or correct than the other. Soooo, use pounds any way you wish; just do the math correctly. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225500 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: BNC power capacity Message-ID: <015e92l2jk7olervqnt4ra051bmunc8hlk@4ax.com> References: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:25:08 GMT On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:58:13 GMT, nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: >On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:17:42 -0500, Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote: > >>nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: >>> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:11:07 -0500, "Ken Bessler" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>How much power can a BNC handle? rg58 coax, 1.3:1 swr, >>>>say, 54mhz, indoor connection. I'm using a BNC jumper between >>>>my amp and my antenna switch. I use BNC so I can d/c quickly >>>>when a t-storm comes in the area. >>> >>> >>> Comfortable at 100W, I doubt more would be reasonable. >>> >>> Allison >> >> >>I don't know that answer either but I'm sure it is higher than that. I >>have seen coaxial relays with SMA connectors that can handle 400 watts >>at a higher frequency than 50 Mhz. Also get an N connector and a BNC >>connector and do a close comparison of the pin and the shield inside the >>connector. They look pretty close. In fact an N male will connect to a >>BNC female, just no way to hold them together. The other way around >>doesn't work because the BNC retention housing gets in the way. > >And how much power can RG58 take? You have to look at the connector >and cable as a whole not their parts. Doesn't it fail either by flashover or exceeding its permitted temperatures? If so then you will need to know the frequency, SWR, loss, duty cycle etc to work it out, won't you? Owen -- Article: 225501 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:27:02 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: Copper tubing capacitors References: <1150493095.604886.118330@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150730237.945562.121730@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <449716a6$0$1012$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > > If 15 and 10 are dead as I expect they might be, I might even turn the > crappie pole antenna into a delta loop for 20 only. > > 73, > Dan > N3OX > A fairly complete how-to for this is at http://www.fros.com/KI0GU/w6zodelta.htm tom K0TAR Article: 225502 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Message-ID: References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129dt4k72vlv478@corp.supernews.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:35:29 GMT On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:01:37 -0700, Roy Lewallen wrote: >do it. What the U.S. did was to declare the metric system to be official >("Mission Accomplished!") and change whiskey bottles from fifths to 750 >ml (which was promoted by the booze industry because it made the bottles >just a little smaller and they could charge the same price). Wow. Roy, you overlooked that the US, an earlier signup to SI, fixed the spelling of metre in the US variant of SI. Owen -- Article: 225503 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <7_Dlg.69518$4L1.60336@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:16:59 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > Yes, and I've heard of Thales of Miletus, too, and both of > those gentlemen would have agreed with Tom Rauch because both > knew the value of experimentation and experience. Virtually everything about clear-sky charged-particle static is already known. It's just that some people choose to ignore the laws of physics and remain ignorant which is their right. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225504 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:28:59 GMT Dave wrote: > Jim Kelley wrote: > >> >> >> Tom Donaly wrote: >> >> >>> Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil? >> >> >> >> Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-) >> >> 73, ac6xg >> > > Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments, every time > I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob. > > The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a > healthy capacitor as a simulator. > > Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is real! > > Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at the > air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or Nitrogen > atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ... how did > the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows? > > But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the > cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added an ESD > bleed into my antenna switches. > > I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file. > No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil, although he thinks he does. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225505 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44972513.7000407@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:28:35 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: <44968d89$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496a4d6$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Tom Donaly wrote: > >> Anyone who thinks that there is a test that measures "intelligence" >> isn't smart enough to belong to Mensa. > > > What is measured is IQ (intelligence quotient). The > field of IQ measurements is approximately as mature > as the field of radio having been around for more > than a century. > > http://www.us.mensa.org http://www.mensa.org.uk The application of IQ that MENSA and others use to differentiate themselves from others has been controversial for years. IQ was originally intended as a statistical tool to describe a population of students. There are many measures of intelligence and many IQ tests. Most have been roundly criticized as culturally biased or inappropriately applied. MENSA is the queen bee of this sort of thing. Article: 225506 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <7PFlg.46811$fb2.28268@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:46:27 GMT Dave wrote: > Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is real! Here's some interesting quotes from: http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm "Virtually all materials, including water and dirt particles in the air, can be triboelectrically charged." "When a conductive material becomes charged, the charge (i.e., the deficiency or excess of electrons) will be uniformly distributed across the surface of the material. If the charged conductive material makes contact with another conductive material, the electrons will transfer between the materials quite easily. If the second conductor is attached to an earth grounding point, the electrons will flow to ground and the excess charge on the conductor will be "neutralized." "Electrostatic charge can be created triboelectrically on conductors the same way it is created on insulators. As long as the conductor is isolated from other conductors or ground, the static charge will remain on the conductor. If the conductor is grounded the charge will easily go to ground. Or, if the charged conductor contacts or nears another conductor, the charge will flow between the two conductors." -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225507 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net Subject: Re: BNC power capacity Message-ID: References: <015e92l2jk7olervqnt4ra051bmunc8hlk@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:55:16 GMT On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:25:08 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: >On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:58:13 GMT, nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: > >>On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:17:42 -0500, Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote: >> >>>nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: >>>> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:11:07 -0500, "Ken Bessler" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>How much power can a BNC handle? rg58 coax, 1.3:1 swr, >>>>>say, 54mhz, indoor connection. I'm using a BNC jumper between >>>>>my amp and my antenna switch. I use BNC so I can d/c quickly >>>>>when a t-storm comes in the area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Comfortable at 100W, I doubt more would be reasonable. >>>> >>>> Allison >>> >>> >>>I don't know that answer either but I'm sure it is higher than that. I >>>have seen coaxial relays with SMA connectors that can handle 400 watts >>>at a higher frequency than 50 Mhz. Also get an N connector and a BNC >>>connector and do a close comparison of the pin and the shield inside the >>>connector. They look pretty close. In fact an N male will connect to a >>>BNC female, just no way to hold them together. The other way around >>>doesn't work because the BNC retention housing gets in the way. >> >>And how much power can RG58 take? You have to look at the connector >>and cable as a whole not their parts. > >Doesn't it fail either by flashover or exceeding its permitted >temperatures? > >If so then you will need to know the frequency, SWR, loss, duty cycle >etc to work it out, won't you? > >Owen Based on the average quality of RG58 I've seen in the last 10 years meltdown to arc is likely. I had some Belden RG58 and found a 250 foot spool of it made a great dummy load at 450mhz. Have to keep the power down to maybe under 100W though as it tends to melt. BNC is supposed to withstand fairly high voltages but the other factor at 50ohms is current and the pin/receptical is small enough that heating from high RF current is also a problem as power goes up. I tend to apply connectors and cables conservitively as often the ones that fail when stressed are the ones 80ft up and 6ft from the mast out on the boom. :) Allison Article: 225508 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:00:52 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far > as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil, > although he thinks he does. You are free to alleviate your ignorance by reading the same technical material that I have read or continue your present path and choose to remain ignorant. For instance, seems to me the Electrostatic Discharge Association knows something about charged particles that you don't know. http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm "Creating electrostatic charge by contact and separation of materials is known as "triboelectric charging." "Virtually all materials, *including water and dirt particles in the air*, can be triboelectrically charged." Seems the Electrostatic Discharge Association is in complete agreement with the 2000 ARRL Handbook: "Precipitation static is an almost continuous hash-type noise that often accompanies various kinds of precipitation, including snowfall. Precipitation static is caused by rain drops, snowflakes or even *wind-blown dust*, transferring a small electrical charge on contact with an antenna." -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225509 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Big Endian Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <7PFlg.46811$fb2.28268@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:11:43 GMT In article <7PFlg.46811$fb2.28268@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > > Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is real! > > Here's some interesting quotes from: > > http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm > > "Virtually all materials, including water and dirt particles in the air, > can be triboelectrically charged." > > "When a conductive material becomes charged, the charge (i.e., the > deficiency or excess of electrons) will be uniformly distributed across > the surface of the material. If the charged conductive material makes > contact with another conductive material, the electrons will transfer > between the materials quite easily. If the second conductor is attached > to an earth grounding point, the electrons will flow to ground and the > excess charge on the conductor will be "neutralized." > > "Electrostatic charge can be created triboelectrically on conductors the > same way it is created on insulators. As long as the conductor is > isolated from other conductors or ground, the static charge will remain > on the conductor. If the conductor is grounded the charge will easily go > to ground. Or, if the charged conductor contacts or nears another > conductor, the charge will flow between the two conductors." some old grain elevators have blown up because of static charge. Grain has power and is electric, at times. Moral: Eat more grain. Article: 225510 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Yuri Blanarovich" References: <0Jzkg.117081$dW3.5139@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:14:18 -0400 "Tom Donaly" wrote > > Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil? You and Yuri don't have > any because you're too afraid to get your hands dirty. Insulting > Tom isn't going to help any, either, nor is intellectual > weaseling and selective quotations from dubious sources. > 73, > Tom Donaly, KA6RUH You got it slightly wrong. We mostly relate cases based on our experiments, which are repeatable and unbelievers could easily duplicate them and see with their own eyes/ears/whatever instead of "theorizing" here why "it can't be". On insulting Tom, why don't you look up the threads and see who is insulting first, pontificating and parading his "theories" on the web pages and if questioned or debunked, takes of after wives, brings Dr. Phil, etc.. Interesting that bunch of baloney on his web site gets pass and is proclaimed as gospel by his worshippers, while debunking gets attacked and smacked with personal comments about .... Are you drinking the same Koolaid? Shield is the antenna, riiiiight! Current along the loading coil is always the same, riiiight! 73 Yuri da BUm Article: 225511 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:22:11 -0500 Message-ID: <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Tom Donaly" wrote in message news:LyFlg.69551$4L1.2176@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > Dave wrote: > > Jim Kelley wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Tom Donaly wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil? > >> > >> > >> > >> Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-) > >> > >> 73, ac6xg > >> > > > > Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments, every time > > I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob. > > > > The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a > > healthy capacitor as a simulator. > > > > Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is real! > > > > Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at the > > air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or Nitrogen > > atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ... how did > > the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows? > > > > But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the > > cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added an ESD > > bleed into my antenna switches. > > > > I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file. > > > > No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far > as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil, > although he thinks he does. > 73, > Tom Donaly, KA6RUH i thought it came from distant thunderstorms? and if wind blows an ELF system around, it does get noisier. i believe that's due to physical movement of the antenna system. Gravity Article: 225512 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> Subject: Re: BNC power capacity References: Message-ID: <%xGlg.57830$9c6.27350@dukeread11> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:36:27 -0500 nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:17:42 -0500, Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote: > > >>nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:11:07 -0500, "Ken Bessler" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>How much power can a BNC handle? rg58 coax, 1.3:1 swr, >>>>say, 54mhz, indoor connection. I'm using a BNC jumper between >>>>my amp and my antenna switch. I use BNC so I can d/c quickly >>>>when a t-storm comes in the area. >>> >>> >>>Comfortable at 100W, I doubt more would be reasonable. >>> >>>Allison >> >> >>I don't know that answer either but I'm sure it is higher than that. I >>have seen coaxial relays with SMA connectors that can handle 400 watts >>at a higher frequency than 50 Mhz. Also get an N connector and a BNC >>connector and do a close comparison of the pin and the shield inside the >>connector. They look pretty close. In fact an N male will connect to a >>BNC female, just no way to hold them together. The other way around >>doesn't work because the BNC retention housing gets in the way. > > > And how much power can RG58 take? Now that is something I can answer. Or at least I have found charts that give me values for that. Assuming you can trust them, rg-58 can handle 300 watts at 50 Mhz and 160 watts at 150 Mhz. Times microwave equivalent LMR-190 says it can handle 680 watts at 50 Mhz and 390 at 150 Mhz. It also has the following foot not on those power ratings, "Power: VSWR=1.0; Ambient = +40°C; Inner Conductor = 100°C (212°F); Sea Level; dry air; atmospheric pressure; no solar loading" I have yet to find anything that tells how much power a BNC connector can take though. I found one that gave it a voltage rating of 500V and a current rating of 3.5A DC. If you use Ohms law 500V at 50 ohms would be 10 amps which gives 5,000 watts, I seriously doubt it can really handle that. That calculation probably didn't help any. If you take the 3.5A with 50 ohms you get 175 V and 612.5 watts. However that 3.5A was DC and generally it is easier to carry the same number of amps with AC, but not sure how that changes as the frequency goes way up. In the end I still don't know how much power it can handle, but I still think it is well over 100 watts. If I were using the LMR cable (which I do) I would probably trust it up to 300 watts at 50 Mhz. With the RG-58 unless my VSWR were perfect and or the ambient temperature were pretty low, I would probably keep it down to 200 watts. -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, >from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com Article: 225513 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: 5/8 wave for 20 meters References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:16:18 GMT Rob Roschewsk wrote: > - can I do it without radials, Certainly you can do it without radials but you won't like the results. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225514 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Butch Magee Subject: Re: i want to know the length of a 6m dipole Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:35:37 -0500 Message-ID: <129egmv2dvvpa10@corp.supernews.com> References: <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga> <4496df7b$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> gravity wrote: > "BILL GRIESCH -K2WDG" wrote in message > news:9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga... > >>wondering if someone can provide me with the length or the plans of a >>6m dipole.. i have 6m's but i dont have the room to put up a full blowen >>ant i think that a dipole would work fo me >> >>please email at k2wdg@k2wdg with any information >> >>thanks in advance >> >>bill k2wdgh > > > the general rule is L = 234/F, where F is the frequency in megahertz, and L > is the length of a quarter wave element in feet. > > this is a strange troll, can't you come up with something better? > > Gravity > > The formula, which I learned as a novice, I think, is length is=468/f(in mHz) Article: 225515 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: Subject: Re: 5/8 wave for 20 meters Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:36:17 -0500 Message-ID: <44974340$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Rob Roschewsk" wrote in message news:L5udnebjnJfxrwrZnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@comcast.com... > Hi gang, > I'm trying to think of a new antenna for 20 Meters. Had a thought of a > 5/8 wave vertical up the side of the house. My calculations tell me this > would be about 41+ feet. Couple of questions: > > - is this a good idea? > - can I do it without radials, I'm thinking ground stake, inductor, 41 > feet of wire straight up, tapping the inductor at the 50 ohm point with > coax. > - I attempted to model this in NEC2 and for 5/8 at 20M I'm getting an > impeadance at the base at about 7.4613E+01-4.3625E+04j. Does that seem > likely or is my model broken? > > Looking forward to what you all think. > i've only made one 5/8 wave. i hear a cap works well since the antenna is overlength and thus inductive. you need radials too. my 5/8 wave didn't do too good, i suspect too many trees, and not enough radials. Gravity > Thanks, > > --> Rob > Article: 225516 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:52:08 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <449746b8$0$6141$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Yuri Blanarovich wrote: > > You got it slightly wrong. > We mostly relate cases based on our experiments, which are repeatable and > unbelievers could easily duplicate them and see with their own > eyes/ears/whatever instead of "theorizing" here why "it can't be". > On insulting Tom, why don't you look up the threads and see who is insulting > first, pontificating and parading his "theories" on the web pages and if > questioned or debunked, takes of after wives, brings Dr. Phil, etc.. > Interesting that bunch of baloney on his web site gets pass and is > proclaimed as gospel by his worshippers, while debunking gets attacked and > smacked with personal comments about .... Are you drinking the same Koolaid? > Shield is the antenna, riiiiight! Current along the loading coil is always > the same, riiiight! > > 73 Yuri da BUm > > PLONK! And I've never plonked anyone else here before. You are very special. tom K0TAR Article: 225517 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5oCkg.61981$4L1.49994@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:54:32 GMT Yuri Blanarovich wrote: > We mostly relate cases based on our experiments, which are repeatable and > unbelievers could easily duplicate them and see with their own > eyes/ears/whatever instead of "theorizing" here why "it can't be". http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm I'm beginning to believe that anyone who is incapable of understanding the considerable body of human knowledge concerning the physics of electrostatic discharge, which includes charged particles in the air around us, is simply suffering from an inadequate IQ level. I won't mention any names but would you agree that those emperors have no clothes. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225518 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <6ntjm3-o6t.ln1@mail.specsol.com> From: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. References: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 01:05:03 GMT In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Earl the pearl wrote: > In article , jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Earl the pearl wrote: > >> Dear Mr President: > > > >> The FCC has been dumbing down ham radio for several years now. This has > >> hurt the integrity of the service and is bad for America. They are > >> planning to dumb it down again really soon now and their plan will make > >> ham radio like CB and it will be bad for America. We already have one CB > >> service on HF, we don't need two. Please pressure the FCC to endorse the > >> following items for the good of the service and America. I wish you could > >> run again for a third term, I would vote for you. I'm glad Al Gore wasn't > >> able to steal the election, and John Kerry would have been a disaster, he'd > >> be kissing terrorist butts and brown nosing them. Thanks for the fine > >> job you're doing protecting and leading America. > > > >> Signed > >> (Your name & callsign) > > > > > >> No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all elements > >> required for their license class. > > > >> The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. > > > >> Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra. > > > >> Make the no-code license one year non-renewable. > > > >I'm sure this very erudite letter, full of specific facts and the > >results of many studies to prove it's point will immediately cause > >the President to put aside all petty concerns (like the Middle East, > >energy problems, changes in Medicare, investigations of members > >of his party and staff, Iran's nuclear program, North Korea's ICBM > >test, etc.) and order the FCC to get rid of all no code Hams. > Email anyway, it can't hurt. The integrity of the service is at stake. > When the bands head further into the shitter, we can say we at least tried to > save the hobby. > Earl Someone for whom satire is an unknown. Having been licensed for over 40 years, all I can say is you people need to get over your sense of self importance. Yeah! Bring back spark! -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. Article: 225519 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150510724.399697.250400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <7PFlg.46811$fb2.28268@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 01:12:40 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is >> real! > > > Here's some interesting quotes from: > > http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm > > "Virtually all materials, including water and dirt particles in the air, > can be triboelectrically charged." > > "When a conductive material becomes charged, the charge (i.e., the > deficiency or excess of electrons) will be uniformly distributed across > the surface of the material. If the charged conductive material makes > contact with another conductive material, the electrons will transfer > between the materials quite easily. If the second conductor is attached > to an earth grounding point, the electrons will flow to ground and the > excess charge on the conductor will be "neutralized." > > "Electrostatic charge can be created triboelectrically on conductors the > same way it is created on insulators. As long as the conductor is > isolated from other conductors or ground, the static charge will remain > on the conductor. If the conductor is grounded the charge will easily go > to ground. Or, if the charged conductor contacts or nears another > conductor, the charge will flow between the two conductors." So, you've discovered the triboelectric effect. You're now up to Thales of Miletus. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225520 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "J. Mc Laughlin" Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:39:32 -0400 Message-ID: <129ekcdilceonb8@corp.supernews.com> References: Dear Howard W3CQH: You have not been clear about what information you need. What do you wish to accomplish? Here is Section 207: Telecommunications Act of 1996 SEC. 207. RESTRICTIONS ON OVER-THE-AIR RECEPTION DEVICES. Within 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Commission shall, pursuant to section 303 of the Communications Act of 1934, promulgate regulations to prohibit restrictions that impair a viewer's ability to receive video programming services through devices designed for over-the-air reception of television broadcast signals, multichannel multipoint distribution service, or direct broadcast satellite services. It sure is not clear what this has to do with what you have said so far. ..... and, in "real" engineering: Kg is the unit of mass in the SI mks system. Newton is the unit of force. F does equal MA (at least for low velocities). 73 Mac, N8TT -- J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A. Home: JCM@Power-Net.Net "Howard W3CQH" wrote in message news:E9ydnYblkdLUmArZnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@adelphia.com... > Thanks to all that have answered my original post - but the information that > I seek has not been answered. > > I understand that section 207 of the FCC telecomm act 1996 contains > information that I might be able to use to help me in this matter. Where > can I obtain a copy of Section 207? I cannot find it posted on the FCC > website! > > Thanks, > > > > "Howard W3CQH" wrote in message > news:DvmdnX0ALIEzxQnZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@adelphia.com... > > Looking for specs on any log periodic antenna that covers 50Mhz - 1300Mhz, > > (Ham variety). Specs must also contain that it can withstand 80MPH wind > > and 30 Lbs of ICE? > > > > Thanks and best DXin. > > > > de Howard W3CQH > > > > > > > > Article: 225521 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison) Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:41:21 -0500 Message-ID: <25667-44975241-873@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net> References: Tom Donaly wrote: "There`s no such thing as a clear-skycharged-particle problem, either in the Arizona desert or anywhere else." I believe there is from countless observations at AM broadcast stations I`ve worked in over a period of many years. The insulators used to break up the guy-wires flash over with "bangs" on certain clear windy days. This might be no problem except it becomes so severe at times that it overloads the transmitter, taking it off the air momentarily. Flash-overs of the guy insulators occurs in S.E. Texas where the humidity is often very high by most standards. Each guy has many insulators in its length and double insulators at the guy attachment point to the tower. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI Article: 225522 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <4496bfaa$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: ULF antennas Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:11:43 -0500 Message-ID: <4497599f$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Tom Donaly" wrote in message news:uJHlg.119461$dW3.52863@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com... > John Popelish wrote: > > Tom Donaly wrote: > > > >> "Detecting Natural Electromagnetic Waves," The Amateur Scientist, > >> Shawn Carlson, Scientific American, May, 1996. 50,000 turns #30 wire > >> on 1/2 inch rebar, 2 feet long. You'll have to make your own amplifier > >> and low > >> pass filter. > > > > > > Rebar has a horrible B-H curve, and low permeability. You would do > > better with a length of black iron pipe that you annealed after you > > sawed a slit in it, lengthwise, to reduce eddy current losses. > > It's what Shawn Carlson used. He also used mu metal which he got from > Scientific Alloys in R.I. Much better, but pricey. it's my understanding that you can use steel because the frequencies are very low. however, i plan to research this further. one thing i'm not clear on is coil diameter and air core. every dollar spent on a metal core could be utilized for more turns for the antenna. and i'm not sure if a big coil would have better aperture and gain than a small diameter. one thing i'm noticing is that there are basically two types of antennas. one type is built by amateurs and is basically guesswork or based on prior designs. the other type is built by professionals, often doing research in earthquakes. Gravity > 73, > Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225523 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Telamon Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:53:54 GMT In article , earlpearl@florida.news (Earl the pearl) wrote: > Dear Mr President: > < Snip > Please do not post amateur issues to rec.radio.shortwave -- Telamon Ventura, California Article: 225524 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dale Parfitt" References: <44974340$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: 5/8 wave for 20 meters Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:12:50 GMT > > i've only made one 5/8 wave. i hear a cap works well since the antenna is > overlength and thus inductive. > The antenna is short of a 3/4 wave and therefore capacitive, not inductive. Either a series coil or a grounded tapped coil will work. Radials are a must. Dale W4OP Article: 225525 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: From: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. References: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:55:02 GMT In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Cecil Moore wrote: > Earl the pearl wrote: > > I'm glad Al Gore wasn't > > able to steal the election, and John Kerry would have been a disaster, he'd > > be kissing terrorist butts and brown nosing them. > And please, President Bush, don't allow the FCC to issue an > amateur radio license to illiterates. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Who would be left to post to rec.radio.amateur.policy if all the babbling idiots were no longer licensed? -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. Article: 225526 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496971a$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:10:27 -0700 "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Ivxlg.53894$Lm5.21399@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > gravity wrote: > > perhaps this comment was a bit harsh. > > There have been some relatively famous members > of MENSA. Isaac Asimov comes to mind. He described > members of MENSA as "intellectually combative". > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp I worked with a guy who joined Mensa. He only attended a few meetings before abandoning them. He said they all just tried to impress each other with how smart they were. ****** Newsgroups replace Mensa -- Film at 11:00 ********* Article: 225527 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:19:04 -0700 "dxAce" wrote in message news:44969559.30D72920@milestones.com... > > Anybody who can't pass the minimal 5 WPM doesn't deserve a license. That's needlessly insulting. Article: 225528 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:22:00 -0700 "gravity" wrote in message news:4496bf14$0$14238 > 5 WPM is easy. Nonsense. Tell us you can do it --- tell us your mangy hound dog can do it, but steer clear of the blanket statements. It isn't easy to one who can't do it. Article: 225529 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Not@home.now (GMAN) Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:50:17 GMT Message-ID: References: <6ntjm3-o6t.ln1@mail.specsol.com> In article <6ntjm3-o6t.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Earl the pearl wrote: >> In article , jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com > wrote: >> >In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Earl the pearl wrote: >> >> Dear Mr President: >> > >> >> The FCC has been dumbing down ham radio for several years now. This has >> >> hurt the integrity of the service and is bad for America. They are >> >> planning to dumb it down again really soon now and their plan will make >> >> ham radio like CB and it will be bad for America. We already have one CB >> >> service on HF, we don't need two. Please pressure the FCC to endorse the >> >> following items for the good of the service and America. I wish you could >> >> run again for a third term, I would vote for you. I'm glad Al Gore wasn't >> >> able to steal the election, and John Kerry would have been a disaster, > he'd >> >> be kissing terrorist butts and brown nosing them. Thanks for the fine >> >> job you're doing protecting and leading America. >> > >> >> Signed >> >> (Your name & callsign) >> > >> > >> >> No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all elements >> >> required for their license class. >> > >> >> The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. >> > >> >> Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra. >> > >> >> Make the no-code license one year non-renewable. >> > >> >I'm sure this very erudite letter, full of specific facts and the >> >results of many studies to prove it's point will immediately cause >> >the President to put aside all petty concerns (like the Middle East, >> >energy problems, changes in Medicare, investigations of members >> >of his party and staff, Iran's nuclear program, North Korea's ICBM >> >test, etc.) and order the FCC to get rid of all no code Hams. > > >> Email anyway, it can't hurt. The integrity of the service is at stake. > >> When the bands head further into the shitter, we can say we at least tried to > >> save the hobby. > >> Earl > >Someone for whom satire is an unknown. > >Having been licensed for over 40 years, all I can say is you people >need to get over your sense of self importance. > >Yeah! Bring back spark! > I am not a HAM but my brother is. The main reason they came up with the idea of the no code license was to spark interest in Amateur Radio. The hobbie is getting to be near extinct in the 21st century compared to the interest of the 1950's to 2000. Article: 225530 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: i want to know the length of a 6m dipole Message-ID: <084f92db31l2g9prrnf9a48dkg5pnpc3f0@4ax.com> References: <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga> <4496df7b$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129egmv2dvvpa10@corp.supernews.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:10:03 -0400 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:35:37 -0500, Butch Magee wrote: >gravity wrote: >> the general rule is L = 234/F, where F is the frequency in megahertz, and L >> is the length of a quarter wave element in feet. >> >> this is a strange troll, can't you come up with something better? >> >> Gravity >> >> >The formula, which I learned as a novice, I think, is length is=468/f(in >mHz) Read the text carefully, he is talking about each of the two 1/4 wave elements that make up a half wave dipole. BTW, what is 468/2 ??? -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 225531 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> Subject: Re: Log Peridic 50m - 1300m References: <1299lnlqg1nng48@corp.supernews.com> <4495430a$0$16233$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496f557$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <44970af5$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 01:11:41 -0500 gravity wrote: > > please read the NIST publications which define the Avoirdupois pound in > terms of kilograms. this is not debateable since NIST is *the* authority in > the US. The NIST isn't the authority on the laws of physics. One of the most basic of which is F=MA, if you use pounds for mass in that formula you get the wrong answer. Nothing that NIST says will change that. 200 lbs = 6.25 slugs * 32 ft/sec^2. Using pounds, the formula won't work any other way. -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, >from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com Article: 225532 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jeff" Subject: Re: BNC power capacity Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:12:59 +0100 Message-ID: References: <%xGlg.57830$9c6.27350@dukeread11> > > I have yet to find anything that tells how much power a BNC connector can > take though. I found one that gave it a voltage rating of 500V and a > current rating of 3.5A DC. If you use Ohms law 500V at 50 ohms would be > 10 amps which gives 5,000 watts, I seriously doubt it can really handle > that. That calculation probably didn't help any. If you take the 3.5A > with 50 ohms you get 175 V and 612.5 watts. However that 3.5A was DC and > generally it is easier to carry the same number of amps with AC, but not > sure how that changes as the frequency goes way up. I have certainly used TNC's at 1300MHz at over 1kW pulsed, in military applications, so breakdown is not the problem!! 73 Jeff Article: 225533 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: <44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496971a$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:00:32 GMT Sal M. Onella wrote: > I worked with a guy who joined Mensa. He only attended a few meetings > before abandoning them. He said they all just tried to impress each other > with how smart they were. Sounds a lot like the ARS. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225534 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: 5/8 wave for 20 meters References: <44974340$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:45 GMT Rob Roschewsk wrote: > If I want something made of wire, and omni directional what would be my > best bet? Inverted-V ? How about a 1/2WL vertical? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp From JT Thu Jun 22 21:12:59 EDT 2006 Article: 225535 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: JT (jt@trek.net) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: i want to know the length of a 6m dipole X-Newsreader: NewsLeecher v3.0 Final (http://www.newsleecher.com) References: <9tzlg.24$JV6.20@fe11.lga> Lines: 11 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:46:30 EDT Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:46:30 GMT Path: news.unc.edu!elk.ncren.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!News.Dal.Ca!news.litech.org!news.glorb.com!atl-c08.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!pc02.usenetserver.com!fe70.usenetserver.com.POSTED!334b1f4d!not-for-mail Xref: news0.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:225535 your best bet is to build a j pole out of copper tubing and make it out 3/4 tubing better out put . I run a yaesu ft 726r 5 watts and talk all over the US. I also us amp but most of the time bare foot. de w8old look me up on ham call. the freq divided by 462/50.125=9ft and 1/4" -- ---------------------------------------------- Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Final * Binary Usenet Leeching Made Easy * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet ---------------------------------------------- Article: 225536 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <44974340$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: 5/8 wave for 20 meters Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:20:03 -0500 Message-ID: <4497f641$0$16281$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Rob Roschewsk" wrote in message news:ROSdnSy69cgdfArZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@comcast.com... > Thanks to all for the feedback. > > So I'm guessing radial are a must for any vertical. > > If I want something made of wire, and omni directional what would be my > best bet? Inverted-V ? > the inverted vee sucks. you might want to read the Cebik article, and make sure you avoid tight angles. i used inverted vees for a few years. one was 100', another 130'. they seemed to have some gain in random angles. they seemed to be an NVIS antenna on the low bands. i would recommend a dipole. you will get nulls. Gravity > --> Rob > ka2pbt > > > Dale Parfitt wrote: > > > > >> i've only made one 5/8 wave. i hear a cap works well since the antenna is > >> overlength and thus inductive. > >> > > The antenna is short of a 3/4 wave and therefore capacitive, not inductive. > > Either a series coil or a grounded tapped coil will work. Radials are a > > must. > > > > Dale W4OP > > > > Article: 225537 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:23:31 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Tom Donaly wrote: >> You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who >> are afraid to experiment. > > Why re-invent the wheel when all you have to do is read > this web page from the Electrostatic Discharge Association > to know what is old hat to most competent engineers? > > http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm Cecil, Once again you have managed to complete encircle the issue with useless factoids while avoiding the key question. I doubt that anyone reading RRAA has a problem with understanding static electricity. Similarly, it is unlikely that anyone here will deny that "noise happens." The question is: What causes the noise, "precipitation static" or "corona"? You have claimed without any support whatsoever that the air cannot be ionized under your "dry" conditions, and therefore corona cannot exist. At the same time you offer references from the ESDA that show charging of particles up to 20,000 volts or higher. Do you suppose corona cares whether the air molecules themselves are charged or whether the unbalanced charge is held on these highly electrified dust particles? 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225538 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:24:04 GMT pltrgyst wrote: > No, it's a statement of historic fact, as determined by the licensing > authorities. But it's incorrct -- anyone who can't copy 5 wpm deserves a > license, but it's Citizen's Band. Are you saying that hundreds of thousands of no-code techs didn't deserve an amateur radio license? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225539 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496971a$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:32:07 -0500 Message-ID: <4497f915$0$16332$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Sal M. Onella" wrote in message news:UyKlg.103$lv.33@fed1read12... > > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:Ivxlg.53894$Lm5.21399@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > > gravity wrote: > > > perhaps this comment was a bit harsh. > > > > There have been some relatively famous members > > of MENSA. Isaac Asimov comes to mind. He described > > members of MENSA as "intellectually combative". > > -- > > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > I worked with a guy who joined Mensa. He only attended a few meetings > before abandoning them. He said they all just tried to impress each other > with how smart they were. > i've heard it's mainly underachievers. however, i like being around smart people, so i will consider joining. i'm not looking to impress anyone, but the conversations at workplaces are very dull to me. Gravity > ****** Newsgroups replace Mensa -- Film at 11:00 ********* > > Article: 225540 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: 5/8 wave for 20 meters Message-ID: References: <44974340$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:34:00 GMT On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:52:32 +0000, Rob Roschewsk wrote: >Thanks to all for the feedback. > >So I'm guessing radial are a must for any vertical. > >If I want something made of wire, and omni directional what would be my >best bet? Inverted-V ? > >--> Rob >ka2pbt For my qrp rig, I'm using an end-fed wire, sorta L shaped, going up about 20 feet, then horizontal. It's 3/4 wavelength long for the low end of 20, attached to the random wire terminal of my tuner, with a single 1/4 wave counterpoise attached to the ground of the tuner. A few twists of the tuner inductor, and it sees pretty low swr. Not sure I would try this with high power, but at qrp levels it doesn' seem to be a problem, bringing the antenna into the shack. bob k5qwg > > >Dale Parfitt wrote: >> > >>> i've only made one 5/8 wave. i hear a cap works well since the antenna is >>> overlength and thus inductive. >>> >> The antenna is short of a 3/4 wave and therefore capacitive, not inductive. >> Either a series coil or a grounded tapped coil will work. Radials are a >> must. >> >> Dale W4OP >> >> Article: 225541 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <4377925pib1eecfu6rbl7ek8u03os7ddpq@4ax.com> <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <9TSlg.101112$H71.51890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:38:13 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who > are afraid to experiment. No need to reinvent the wheel when all the experimentation in the world has already been done. There have been many experiments performed concerning "fairweather phenomena". (Thanks Jim) A Yahoo search turned up hundreds of references. "Atmospheric Electrostatics" is a 120 page free book available for downloading at: http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html Here's a quote: "In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to ground by snow are usually always negative under potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956). The total precipitation current around the earth is estimated to be about +340 amperes." Changing the subject away from charged water/dust particles: One of the items that W8JI has been calling "corona" is not corona at all. It is called the "electric fairweather field" which is NOT corona. Corona requires an ionizing current of 100 uA per cm^2 for as long as the corona persists. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225542 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:38:34 -0500 Message-ID: <4497fa98$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> jesus, let's just do away with the written test *and* the CW test. let's just open the doors to anyone. we'll set up a webpage at the ARRL site, and you'll just point and click. it will be as easy as becoming a Reverend. you could license your dog, a terrorist, anyone. honestly, i am very glad there are minimum requirements. this keeps out people who are not serious about the hobby. people who don't know what they are doing should not be transmitting (esp on HF). this whole CW debate is what we call the dumbing down of America. i mean we have minimum standards for driving in America or becoming a citizen, why is ham radio so different? Gravity Article: 225543 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:40:14 -0500 Message-ID: <4497fafc$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Dave" wrote in message news:hJadnTUU2tGVQgrZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@comcast.com... > I'll top post again for brevity and getting to the point. > > I like CW! It is most likely going away as a requirement. I'm sad at this. > > Amateur radio will change as a result. Everything changes. Hopefully the changes > will be positive. > i have an idea. get rid of the CW and triple the difficulty of the written test. there is certain element of society, which needs to be kept out of the HF spectrum. Gravity > Dave wrote: > > > 5 WPM is do-able! My 4 1/2 year granddaughter copies 5 wpm! Her 10 year > > old brother, who learned it in Cub Scouts, taught her. And, she can't > > even spell yet! But, she knows the alphabet from watching TV. > > > > Some people have DIFFICULTY learning Morse Code, real difficulty! > > MAJOR SNIPPING from here down. > Article: 225544 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:50:02 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > Do you suppose corona cares whether the air molecules themselves are > charged or whether the unbalanced charge is held on these highly > electrified dust particles? Corona requires an ionized path through the air with a sustained current of 100 uA per cm^2. What you are calling corona is not corona. If a charged particle is not in the act of discharging, by definition it cannot be corona. On a clear dusty day, where is the ionized glowing path through the air that necessarily accompanies corona? What W8JI has previously been describing is the electric fairweather field, not corona. Please see: http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225545 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison) Subject: Re: ULF antennas Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:47:46 -0500 Message-ID: <5361-4497FC82-194@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net> References: John Popelish wrote: "The iron core rod takes up a little less space---." A relay-coil works well for me. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI Article: 225546 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI References: <44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496971a$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4497f915$0$16332$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:58:12 GMT gravity wrote: > i've heard it's mainly underachievers. however, i like being around smart > people, so i will consider joining. i'm not looking to impress anyone, but > the conversations at workplaces are very dull to me. You take an average lady to a nice restaurant and engage in small talk while buying her dinner and a few drinks. If she likes you well enough, she will go home with you. The only difference in MENSA ladies is that they don't like small talk. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225547 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <4497fa98$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:01:14 GMT gravity wrote: > i mean we have minimum standards for driving in America or becoming a > citizen, why is ham radio so different? When I got my driver's license in 1952, the driving test was required to be taken on a stick shift vehicle. Do you think that should still be a requirement? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225548 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4497fafc$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:03:10 GMT gravity wrote: > i have an idea. get rid of the CW and triple the difficulty of the written > test. there is certain element of society, which needs to be kept out of > the HF spectrum. How about just requiring a scientific/technical degree from an accredited university? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225549 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: 5/8 wave for 20 meters References: <44974340$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:07:41 GMT Rob Roschewsk wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> How about a 1/2WL vertical? > OK. End fed?? How should I feed it? Ladder line like a Zepp?? I would center feed it with horizontal ladder-line and use it on 20m-10m. However, a 1/4WL sleeve on the bottom half would allow you to feed it at the bottom with coax. Another possibility is a matching network at the base. Your ground rod might work OK with that. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225550 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150809924.627366.210800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:50:43 -0500 Message-ID: <44980b82$0$74023$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > It is reported that Albert Einstein had difficulty learning Calculus. The man > was a Physics genius but needed help with advanced math. it was differential geometry that Einstein was unfamiliar with. when formulating relativity, he realized that he needed tools that he was not familiar with. so he went to a mathematician friend and learned which tools he needed. please understand this in the context of 1912. differential geometry was fairly new back then, i believe it came from Riemann. it's possible for some branches of math and physics to be relatively arcane. for instance, de Borges attempted proofs use operator theory. most mathematics students cannot read his papers. in fact, most professional mathematicians can't read them either. the only reason that de Borges proof of Bieberbach became accepted is that it was rewritten by other Europeans. it's not uncommon for a theoretical physicist to have to learn a new branch of math to solve a problem. for instance, string theorists working on the landscape turned to statistics. Gravity Article: 225551 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150809924.627366.210800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:02:18 -0500 Message-ID: <44980e39$0$15916$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > It is reported that Albert Einstein had difficulty learning Calculus. The man > was a Physics genius but needed help with advanced math. relativity utilizes tensor calculus, which is a few semesters beyond the basic integral calculus taught to many college students. even today, relativity is viewed as fairly knotty. general relativity really isn't tackled until graduate school. it's my understanding that Einstein was very good at math. to be a lowly patent clerk and revolutionize physics requires real skill. what is advanced math? multivariable calculus and ordinary differential equations are viewed as advanced by the general population, however millions of people have learned the basics of these. in contrast, there are papers in number theory that can only be a read by a dozen people on the planet. it's partially due to our own limitations as humans. Gravity Article: 225552 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150809924.627366.210800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150815227.965866.316460@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:36:56 -0500 Message-ID: <44981657$0$16435$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > you have fun with fine go for it > Bear in mind I think Mose and esp the attiudes around are bad for the > ARS but I support your freedom to disagree and even to just do > something I consider nonproducitve just for sheer joy of it nonproductive? yet somehow saying "get help" 1000 times is a valuable use of time? Gravity > > I expect the same however for myself > > > > /s/ DD, W1MCE > Article: 225553 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <9TSlg.101112$H71.51890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: <9SUlg.3599$Td6.1671@trnddc08> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:53:41 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > "Atmospheric Electrostatics" is a 120 page free book > available for downloading at: > > http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html > > Here's a quote: > "In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to > ground by snow are usually always negative under > potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956). > The total precipitation current around the earth is > estimated to be about +340 amperes." So that would give a current of about 0.06 picoamperes per square foot? Article: 225554 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <_VUlg.221018$Fs1.199409@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:46 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> Do you suppose corona cares whether the air molecules themselves are >> charged or whether the unbalanced charge is held on these highly >> electrified dust particles? > > Corona requires an ionized path through the air with > a sustained current of 100 uA per cm^2. What you are > calling corona is not corona. If a charged particle > is not in the act of discharging, by definition it > cannot be corona. On a clear dusty day, where is the > ionized glowing path through the air that necessarily > accompanies corona? > > What W8JI has previously been describing is the electric > fairweather field, not corona. Please see: > > http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html Cecil, That's a good one. Are you going to start referencing the CFA and EH crowd next? 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225555 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <9TSlg.101112$H71.51890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <9SUlg.3599$Td6.1671@trnddc08> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:03:31 -0500 Message-ID: <44981c92$0$64664$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "John - KD5YI" wrote in message news:9SUlg.3599$Td6.1671@trnddc08... > Cecil Moore wrote: > > > "Atmospheric Electrostatics" is a 120 page free book > > available for downloading at: > > > > http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html > > > > Here's a quote: > > "In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to > > ground by snow are usually always negative under > > potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956). > > The total precipitation current around the earth is > > estimated to be about +340 amperes." > > > So that would give a current of about 0.06 picoamperes per square foot? oh my god. there are several picoamperes on my antennas! what should i do? Gravity Article: 225556 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <9TSlg.101112$H71.51890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <9SUlg.3599$Td6.1671@trnddc08> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:05:49 GMT John - KD5YI wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> "In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to >> ground by snow are usually always negative under >> potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956). >> The total precipitation current around the earth is >> estimated to be about +340 amperes." > > So that would give a current of about 0.06 picoamperes per square foot? I assume that's an average value. Localized values could be much less or much greater. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225557 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Alan" References: <44968db2$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4496971a$0$15851$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Offer to W8JI Message-ID: <1zVlg.81093$Lg.73241@tornado.southeast.rr.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:41:33 GMT "Sal M. Onella" wrote in message news:UyKlg.103$lv.33@fed1read12... > ****** Newsgroups replace Mensa -- Film at 11:00 ********* > There is a rec.org. mensa newsgroup... Several Hams on it too, but many have left. A few years ago it was very active with some engineering professors. It's been hijacked by political talk lately; however, some political discussions are fun. Alan WN4HOG Article: 225558 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Copper tubing capacitors Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:43:31 -0700 Message-ID: <129gcu64mvl1be5@corp.supernews.com> References: <1150493095.604886.118330@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <43b692pn4a0v1je14kjkhb3046984i3qef@4ax.com> <1150498208.875370.290360@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1150501277.720010.39580@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1150505038.408172.97350@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150819893.041370.125140@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> K7ITM wrote: > n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: >> I guess I'm learning a public lesson but I'm going to post this as a >> wrapup. >> >> I figured out the problem. My inch of wire appears to measure about >> 0.06 microhenries. >> >> 1/(2*Pi*sqrt(0.06microhenries*165picofarads) ~ 50MHz >> >> 73, >> Dan >> N3OX > > Yeah, you discovered why they* suggest using an array of values of > bypass capacitors, even when using SMT capacitors with "zero" lead > length, to do a good job of bypassing a supply over a wide frequency > range. And why even in ham construction literature from the 1950s they > talk about keeping leads very short for good RF construction. > . . . And just one of the many reasons I keep saying that good RF measurements are much more difficult to make than most people realize. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 225559 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <_VUlg.221018$Fs1.199409@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <6BWlg.119600$dW3.22685@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:01:41 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> That's a good one. Are you going to start referencing the CFA and EH >> crowd next? > > Is NASA part of the CFA and EH crowds? Please note the complete > absence of references to corona when fairweather fields are > being discussed. > Cecil, None of those references mention world peace or noise on HF antennas either. What is your point? There is an entire universe of documents that include no reference to corona. I will repeat, nobody has any issues with fairweather fields or any of the other atmospheric stuff you keep dredging up. So what? You have not offered a single reference beyond the ARRL Handbook that supports your model for noise generation. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225560 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <_VUlg.221018$Fs1.199409@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <6BWlg.119600$dW3.22685@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: <96Ylg.101211$H71.94462@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:35:33 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > I will repeat, nobody has any issues with fairweather fields or any of > the other atmospheric stuff you keep dredging up. So what? Sour grapes? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225561 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:35:14 -0500 Message-ID: <129h1hg6n6lula7@corp.supernews.com> References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> "Earl the pearl" wrote in message news:d094j9d-ske4n349-sdjken4d@miami.fl.news... > In article <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>, "RHF" > wrote: >>ETP, >> >>Did you ever think that there are more CB'ers >>then Amateur Radio Operators {Hams} and >>that just may be more CB'ers voted for Bush >>then the Hams . . . >> >>so that your request may have just the oposite >>reaction in the Whitehouse then you might >>expect - something to think about ~ RHF >> . >> . >>.. . > > > > So you're saying CB'ers have more pull because there are more of them? > Hmmm. > You might be right, but we're dealing with President Bush here. He don't > listen to Lazy Stupid people. If listened to what Lazy stupid people > wanted, > we'd be cutting and running from Iraq like the Democrats want and he ain't > cutting and running. > > There's still hope. Send that email. Save amateur radio and > shortwave. > > Earl So what is your point? Is it that CBers are stupid? Or is it that CBers vote democrat? If Bush didn't listen to "Lazy Stupid" people, we would not even be in Iraq. Maybe you missed it when they never found any WMDs in Iraq, which is why we went to begin with. He obviously listens to "Lazy Stupid" people, like Russian intelligence. I'm sure if you try hard enough, he will even listen to you. Before you label me a liberal, I voted for Bush Article: 225562 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:38:33 -0500 Message-ID: <129h1nmhnlaa108@corp.supernews.com> References: "James Douglas" wrote in message news:o42dnSY4utrn8wXZnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d@comcast.com... > Earl the pearl wrote: >> Dear Mr President: >> >> The FCC has been dumbing down ham radio for several years now. This has >> hurt the integrity of the service and is bad for America. They are >> planning to dumb it down again really soon now and their plan will make >> ham radio like CB and it will be bad for America. We already have one CB >> service on HF, we don't need two. Please pressure the FCC to endorse >> the >> following items for the good of the service and America. I wish you >> could >> run again for a third term, I would vote for you. I'm glad Al Gore >> wasn't >> able to steal the election, and John Kerry would have been a disaster, >> he'd >> be kissing terrorist butts and brown nosing them. Thanks for the fine >> job you're doing protecting and leading America. Signed >> (Your name & callsign) >> >> >> No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all elements >> required for their license class. The passing score for written exams >> needs to be raised to 85%. >> >> Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra. >> >> Make the no-code license one year non-renewable. >> > What kind of fuc$ing idiot wrote that letter, sounds like a CB'er to me! The same kind of idiot that perpetuates the stereotype of people that use CB. Oh, that would be YOU! Article: 225563 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Slow Code References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:47:23 GMT "Sal M. Onella" wrote in news:IJKlg.105$lv.102@fed1read12: > > "gravity" wrote in message > news:4496bf14$0$14238 > >> 5 WPM is easy. > > Nonsense. > > Tell us you can do it --- tell us your mangy hound dog can do it, but > steer clear of the blanket statements. It isn't easy to one who can't > do it. When code goes away, you're going to be the one that tells us the written is too hard. sc Article: 225564 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Slow Code References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4497fafc$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:47:25 GMT Cecil Moore wrote in news:yeTlg.101120$H71.85972@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com: > gravity wrote: >> i have an idea. get rid of the CW and triple the difficulty of the >> written test. there is certain element of society, which needs to be >> kept out of the HF spectrum. > > How about just requiring a scientific/technical > degree from an accredited university? That's kind of funny but you know, I could actually agree to that. An EE degree gets you a licence. You're certainly qualified. :-) SC Article: 225565 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:53:33 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> t we're dealing with President Bush here. He don't > listen to Lazy Stupid people. If listened to what Lazy stupid people wanted, > we'd be cutting and running from Iraq like the Democrats want and he ain't > cutting and running. > > There's still hope. Send that email. Save amateur radio and shortwave. > > Earl Man, that is the most pathetic thing I've seen posted in a while. Don't get me started about Iraq. Where have you been for the last 3 years? Regarding "W": No, he "ain't" cuttin' and runnin'. But our boys are dying. And I'll be damned if I know why. Yeah, I know it's just another troll. I wanted to respond anyway. Article: 225566 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44989368.5080203@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:31:36 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> > > So you're saying CB'ers have more pull because there are more of them? Hmmm. > You might be right, but we're dealing with President Bush here. He don't > listen to Lazy Stupid people. If listened to what Lazy stupid people wanted, > we'd be cutting and running from Iraq like the Democrats want and he ain't > cutting and running. > > There's still hope. Send that email. Save amateur radio and shortwave. > > Earl "Earl", How long you bin working from the White House? Does Karl pay you in currency or in "services"? Now, don't go nucular, I'm just askin'. Article: 225567 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison) Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:52:41 -0500 Message-ID: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> References: Gene W4SZ wrote: "You have not offered a single reference beyond the ARRL Handbook that supports your model for noise generation." (Directed to Cecil) Particle discharge makes radio static noise. Look at Terman`s description of "precipitation static". Instead of charged particles blowing in the wind and alighting on stationary antennas, Terman describes aircraft and their antennas flying through clouds of charged particles. The effect is the same. Terman`s solution: keep the antennas away from sharp points on the aircraft which tend to noisly discharge the aircraft, insulate antenna wires, and put Faraday shields on the directional antenna loops. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI Article: 225568 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Re: 5/8 wave for 20 meters Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:08:34 -0700 Message-ID: References: <44974340$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:52:32 +0000, Rob Roschewsk wrote: >If I want something made of wire, and omni directional what would be my >best bet? Inverted-V ? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** An inverted vee with the apex angle at about 90 degrees is almost perfectly omnidirectional. Bill, W6WRT Article: 225569 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:16:20 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:42:03 -0400, Dave wrote: >I like CW! It is most likely going away as a requirement. I'm sad at this. > >Amateur radio will change as a result. Everything changes. Hopefully the changes >will be positive. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Don't be sad my friend. CW will survive if people find it useful, and especially if the diehards will stop jamming it down people's throats. News flash: People don't like that with CW or anything else! :-) 73, Bill W6WRT 20 wpm extra, licensed 49 yrs Article: 225570 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:20:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150809924.627366.210800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:38:49 -0400, Dave wrote: >NO! Don't label another person! It is wrong to label! Particularly when you do >not know any of his/her life's circumstances. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** Not true at all. For example I can label you as a Politically Correct, Warm-n-Fuzzy far leftist and be right on the money. Labels have their place. Bill, W6WRT Article: 225571 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> Subject: Signal Generator Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:38:06 -0500 Is there any chance I could find a used signal generator that would cover up to 1.6 Ghz for less than $1000? When I say less than $1000, I don't mean $999 :) -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, >from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com Article: 225572 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:08:06 GMT Richard Harrison wrote: > Gene W4SZ wrote: > "You have not offered a single reference beyond the ARRL Handbook that > supports your model for noise generation." (Directed to Cecil) > > Particle discharge makes radio static noise. > > Look at Terman`s description of "precipitation static". Instead of > charged particles blowing in the wind and alighting on stationary > antennas, Terman describes aircraft and their antennas flying through > clouds of charged particles. The effect is the same. > > Terman`s solution: keep the antennas away from sharp points on the > aircraft which tend to noisly discharge the aircraft, insulate antenna > wires, and put Faraday shields on the directional antenna loops. > > Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI > Hi Richard, You skipped the most interesting part in Terman. In the 1955 edition, page 857, he says, "The term precipitation static denotes a type of interference frequently observed in an airplane passing through snow or rain. Under such circumstances, the airplane may become electrically charged to such a high potential with respect to the surrounding space that a corona discharge breaks out at some sharp point on the plane. The interference that this corona discharge produces with radio reception, termed precipitation static, is particularly serious at short-wave and lower frequencies." So who are ya gonna believe? Terman? the ARRL Handbook? Cecil? Tom R.? 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225573 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 04:20:41 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > "The term precipitation static denotes a type of interference frequently > observed in an airplane passing through snow or rain. Under such > circumstances, the airplane may become electrically charged to such a > high potential with respect to the surrounding space that a corona > discharge breaks out at some sharp point on the plane. The interference > that this corona discharge produces with radio reception, termed > precipitation static, is particularly serious at short-wave and lower > frequencies." Corona causes RF noise for sure. But RF noise also occurs in the complete absence of corona. RF noise in the complete absence of corona is what we have been discussing. *Nobody* is arguing that corona doesn't cause RF noise. We are arguing that RF noise can be caused by something other than corona. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225574 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 04:25:43 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Some have suggested that Cecil's statements are invalid because he > hasn't done the experiments - not so. His view represents the > mainstream. The debunkers have the burden of proof. Yep, here's a quote from the mainstream: http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm "Virtually all materials, including water and dirt particles in the air, can be triboelectrically charged." Given charged dirt (dust) particles encountering a bare-wire dipole, all the rest is simple physics. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225575 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Message-ID: <5h4mg.138$lv.13@fed1read12> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:53:14 -0700 "pltrgyst" wrote in message news:p7sf921alq8bjm4rp0269lvrosks1458tf@4ax.com... Dyslexia cannot apply, unless it is dyslexia that affects the > remembered dot/dash pattern of a single character. Well, Larry, it took you to the last sentence, but you did actually lurch into the problem. Within seconds after learning what dah-dit-dit-dah means (or dit-dah-dah-dit, for that matter), I fail to accurately recognize them when they are sent again. Hundreds of tries -- all failures, all mine. >From your lofty perch, as a successful Morse Code user, you look down on me. You could stand to learn a little humility. It would serve you and the amateur community better than dah-dit-dah any day. Article: 225576 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:53:41 -0700 "Slow Code" wrote in message news:cO%lg.8936$lp.2685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > "Sal M. Onella" wrote in > news:YGKlg.104$lv.41@fed1read12: > > > > > "dxAce" wrote in message > > news:44969559.30D72920@milestones.com... > > > >> > >> Anybody who can't pass the minimal 5 WPM doesn't deserve a license. > > > > That's needlessly insulting. > > > No it isn't. > > Some things in life require you do a little work to enjoy their benefits. > You don't want to learn CW, you shouldn't be allowed on ham radio. > > And Five words per minute ain't a code test. I can fart five words per > minute. Anyone that can't learn 5 wpm is either lazy or a tard and should > stick to CB, FRS, and cell phones. I am a gainfully-employed degreed engineer with an above-average IQ and dyslexia. You are beneath contempt. *CLICK* Article: 225577 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:53:44 -0700 "Slow Code" wrote in message news:fO%lg.8938$lp.3438@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > > When code goes away, you're going to be the one that tells us the written > is too hard. You wish! Of the 55 questions on my Technician License exam, I missed one. ONE! Technically, I'm an above average ham. Through your dirty goggles, however, you see me as some kind of slug because I can't do code. So wrong. Because I already hit the twit filter on you, I won't see any reply you send, so play it up any way you want. Article: 225578 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Alan" References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net> <1150858267.800087.10270@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:59:13 GMT "an_old_friend" wrote in message news:1150858267.800087.10270@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com... > we, over other years, Made Saddam the power he was but he slipped the > leash on us and bagn biting people we can't afford to allow to get bit, > we made him we had a duty to take him down, and pay the price that had > to be paid Saddam was a paper tiger. Too bad we couldn't have waited till after we found Bin Laden before taking on that task. Alan Article: 225579 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <4499406A.6050905@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:49:46 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net> <1150858267.800087.10270@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> > > > Saddam was a paper tiger. Too bad we couldn't have waited till after we > found Bin Laden before taking on that task. > > Alan > > > Too bad, indeed. Turns out we had him cornered and apparently deliberately let him go. The plan was to get Saddam from the beginning. OIL again. Turf battles and internal "coups" within the White House needlessly sacrificed American lives and dropped the ball on terrorism. Well, we got Saddam. I feel SO MUCH safer. Article: 225580 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Alan" References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net> <1150858267.800087.10270@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <4499406A.6050905@fuse.net> Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:59:20 GMT "jawod" wrote in message news:4499406A.6050905@fuse.net... > Too bad, indeed. Turns out we had him cornered and apparently > deliberately let him go. The plan was to get Saddam from the beginning. > OIL again. Turf battles and internal "coups" within the White House > needlessly sacrificed American lives and dropped the ball on terrorism. > > Well, we got Saddam. I feel SO MUCH safer. Of course, if you own some stock in Halliburton and can reap some of the profits of $45 dollar soft drinks you're not doing to poorly either.... http://www.giveitupcheney.org/ Alan Article: 225581 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:29:02 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Richard Harrison wrote: >> Gene W4SZ wrote: >> "You have not offered a single reference beyond the ARRL Handbook that >> supports your model for noise generation." (Directed to Cecil) >> >> Particle discharge makes radio static noise. >> >> Look at Terman`s description of "precipitation static". Instead of >> charged particles blowing in the wind and alighting on stationary >> antennas, Terman describes aircraft and their antennas flying through >> clouds of charged particles. The effect is the same. >> >> Terman`s solution: keep the antennas away from sharp points on the >> aircraft which tend to noisly discharge the aircraft, insulate antenna >> wires, and put Faraday shields on the directional antenna loops. > > a PDF reference > > http://tinyurl.com/h4o6u > > I've done a bit of googling on the subject, and find that most seem > to favor this sort of explanation of the phenomenon. A notable exception > is W8JI. To Tom's credit he performs some experiments along those lines. > I'm not completely sure that I buy the conclusions, but I'll digest them > a bit more. I would suggest that Tom may want to experiment with > charging dust particles with that HV source rather than water. > > Some have suggested that Cecil's statements are invalid because he > hasn't done the experiments - not so. His view represents the > mainstream. The debunkers have the burden of proof. > > - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Mike, Did you actually read the reference you provided? It offers complete support for Tom's position and zero support for Cecil's position. As usual around RRAA, this entire matter has morphed into all sorts of side issues. The original and only point of controversy is whether the so-called "precipitation static" is related to corona discharge or rather to some sort of particle-by-particle charge transfer of the antenna. Cecil claims that corona cannot exist in "fairweather" conditions, although there is no reason given. Therefore the particle-by-particle hypothesis is the only reasonable choice as the noise generator. The ARRL Handbook seems to go along with that idea, although not very explicitly. Other references, including Terman and the training document you provided say that corona discharge is responsible for the noise generation. W8JI agrees with that hypothesis. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225582 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Alan" References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net> <1150858267.800087.10270@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150893198.736119.208210@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:02:43 GMT "an_old_friend" wrote in message news:1150893198.736119.208210@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... > > Indeed I wonder if some of the boys at Langley are thinking and acting > on the same thought > > The "boys at Langley" don't wield power to think and act anymore. Your VP has seen to it that his own boys in the Pentagon have taken over that business. Kill the messenger. Langley had it correct when they said Iraq didn't have WMD. That's what go Wilson in trouble, remember? Alan WN4HOG Article: 225583 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:32:50 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> "The term precipitation static denotes a type of interference >> frequently observed in an airplane passing through snow or rain. Under >> such circumstances, the airplane may become electrically charged to >> such a high potential with respect to the surrounding space that a >> corona discharge breaks out at some sharp point on the plane. The >> interference that this corona discharge produces with radio reception, >> termed precipitation static, is particularly serious at short-wave and >> lower frequencies." > > Corona causes RF noise for sure. But RF noise also occurs in > the complete absence of corona. RF noise in the complete absence > of corona is what we have been discussing. *Nobody* is arguing that > corona doesn't cause RF noise. We are arguing that RF noise can be > caused by something other than corona. Cecil, How do you know there is no corona discharge? Is there some special test that tells one if corona discharge is present or not? 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225584 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:35:48 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > > Yep, here's a quote from the mainstream: > > http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm > > "Virtually all materials, including water and dirt particles > in the air, can be triboelectrically charged." > > Given charged dirt (dust) particles encountering a bare-wire > dipole, all the rest is simple physics. Cecil, You have now revealed the root cause of the controversy. Try using real physics instead of simple physics. 8-) 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225585 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150552956.325543.198880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <4ecmg.101400$H71.89899@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:56:16 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Tom Donaly wrote: > >> gravity wrote: >> >>> "Tom Donaly" wrote in message >>> news:LyFlg.69551$4L1.2176@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... >>> >>>> Dave wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim Kelley wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom Donaly wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> 73, ac6xg >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments, every >>>>> time >>>>> I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob. >>>>> >>>>> The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a >>>>> healthy capacitor as a simulator. >>>>> >>>>> Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is >>> >>> >>> >>> real! >>> >>>>> Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at the >>>>> air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or >>>>> Nitrogen >>>>> atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ... >>>>> how did >>>>> the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows? >>>>> >>>>> But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the >>>>> cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added an >>>>> ESD >>>>> bleed into my antenna switches. >>>>> >>>>> I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file. >>>>> >>>> >>>> No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far >>>> as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil, >>>> although he thinks he does. >>>> 73, >>>> Tom Donaly, KA6RUH >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> i thought it came from distant thunderstorms? >>> >>> and if wind blows an ELF system around, it does get noisier. i believe >>> that's due to physical movement of the antenna system. >>> >>> Gravity >>> >>> >> >> You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who >> are afraid to experiment. > > > > Just as a point of info Tom. Do you perform experiments to prove or > disprove matters to your satisfaction on everything before accepting it? > That takes a very special person to be ultimately skeptical. > > Your posts would indicate that... or maybe that you just enjoy > busting on Cecil. 8^) > > - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Actually, when it comes to some of the issues raised on this newsgroup, yes, I do. I don't see why I should believe what Cecil makes up in his head just because he makes it up in his head. "I can't believe _that_!" said Alice. "Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes." Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!" Cecil and the White Queen would get along well together. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225586 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:05:45 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Richard Harrison wrote: > >> Gene W4SZ wrote: >> "You have not offered a single reference beyond the ARRL Handbook that >> supports your model for noise generation." (Directed to Cecil) >> >> Particle discharge makes radio static noise. >> >> Look at Terman`s description of "precipitation static". Instead of >> charged particles blowing in the wind and alighting on stationary >> antennas, Terman describes aircraft and their antennas flying through >> clouds of charged particles. The effect is the same. >> >> Terman`s solution: keep the antennas away from sharp points on the >> aircraft which tend to noisly discharge the aircraft, insulate antenna >> wires, and put Faraday shields on the directional antenna loops. > > > a PDF reference > > http://tinyurl.com/h4o6u > > I've done a bit of googling on the subject, and find that most seem > to favor this sort of explanation of the phenomenon. A notable exception > is W8JI. To Tom's credit he performs some experiments along those lines. > I'm not completely sure that I buy the conclusions, but I'll digest them > a bit more. I would suggest that Tom may want to experiment with > charging dust particles with that HV source rather than water. > > Some have suggested that Cecil's statements are invalid because he > hasn't done the experiments - not so. His view represents the > mainstream. The debunkers have the burden of proof. > > - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - It doesn't represent the mainstream. Go back and actually read the references. Besides, if Cecil can't demonstrate the validity of his views experimentally, even if there are some sources that agree with him, he's just parroting the old wives. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225587 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:11:20 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> Some have suggested that Cecil's statements are invalid because he >> hasn't done the experiments - not so. His view represents the >> mainstream. The debunkers have the burden of proof. > > > Yep, here's a quote from the mainstream: > > http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm > > "Virtually all materials, including water and dirt particles > in the air, can be triboelectrically charged." > > Given charged dirt (dust) particles encountering a bare-wire > dipole, all the rest is simple physics. Prove that this causes radio frequency noise, Cecil. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225588 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:16:51 -0500 Message-ID: <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Sal M. Onella" wrote in message news:wh4mg.139$lv.109@fed1read12... > > "Slow Code" wrote in message > news:cO%lg.8936$lp.2685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > "Sal M. Onella" wrote in > > news:YGKlg.104$lv.41@fed1read12: > > > > > > > > "dxAce" wrote in message > > > news:44969559.30D72920@milestones.com... > > > > > >> > > >> Anybody who can't pass the minimal 5 WPM doesn't deserve a license. > > > > > > That's needlessly insulting. > > > > > > No it isn't. > > > > Some things in life require you do a little work to enjoy their benefits. > > You don't want to learn CW, you shouldn't be allowed on ham radio. > > > > And Five words per minute ain't a code test. I can fart five words per > > minute. Anyone that can't learn 5 wpm is either lazy or a tard and should > > stick to CB, FRS, and cell phones. > > I am a gainfully-employed degreed engineer with an above-average IQ > and dyslexia. You are beneath contempt. > > *CLICK* > > argumentum ad hominem. if you killfile him because you dislike him, that is one thing. but if you say he is wrong because you are an engineer, that is a logical fallacy. this is why we need to add critical analysis to the engineering curriculum. Gravity Article: 225589 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <5h4mg.138$lv.13@fed1read12> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:19:34 -0500 Message-ID: <449955b9$0$14993$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Sal M. Onella" wrote in message news:5h4mg.138$lv.13@fed1read12... > > "pltrgyst" wrote in message > news:p7sf921alq8bjm4rp0269lvrosks1458tf@4ax.com... > > Dyslexia cannot apply, unless it is dyslexia that affects the > > remembered dot/dash pattern of a single character. > > Well, Larry, it took you to the last sentence, but you did actually lurch > into the problem. > Within seconds after learning what dah-dit-dit-dah means (or > dit-dah-dah-dit, for that matter), I fail to > accurately recognize them when they are sent again. Hundreds of tries -- > all failures, all mine. > > From your lofty perch, as a successful Morse Code user, you look down on me. > You could stand to learn a > little humility. It would serve you and the amateur community better than > dah-dit-dah any day. > > should we get rid of the written test because people can't learn decibels and basic algebra? perhaps the CW test could have a question pool similar to the written. you could memorize all the answers. i am actually dead serious. or standardize the test so that the output is always like a QSO in super morse. there are ways to make the test easier. hmm, or we could have an option that you can view the CW in a spectrogram and decode it visually. Gravity Article: 225590 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:20:27 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > Did you actually read the reference you provided? It offers complete > support for Tom's position and zero support for Cecil's position. I cannot find any support for Tom's position except from wishful thinking by a certain group of ignorant people here on r.r.a.a. > As usual around RRAA, this entire matter has morphed into all sorts of > side issues. The original and only point of controversy is whether the > so-called "precipitation static" is related to corona discharge or > rather to some sort of particle-by-particle charge transfer of the antenna. Yes, and the references I have provided indicate that natural *corona is impossible under clear-sky fairweather conditions*. You obviously have not read them. > Cecil claims that corona cannot exist in "fairweather" conditions, > although there is no reason given. Again, obviously a false statement based on wishful thinking. As proved by my references, the existence of corona requires ~100 uA per cm^2. Quoting from the previous NASA web page, for the fairweather field, "the current is 10^-12 amps per square meter." Requirement for corona to exist: 100 uA per cm^2 = 10 amps per square meter Available current during fairweather conditions: 10^-12 amps per square meter Conclusion: During fairweather conditions, the current is 13 magnitudes too low for corona to exist. > Therefore the particle-by-particle > hypothesis is the only reasonable choice as the noise generator. The > ARRL Handbook seems to go along with that idea, although not very > explicitly. Other references, including Terman and the training document > you provided say that corona discharge is responsible for the noise > generation. W8JI agrees with that hypothesis. Again, obviously a false statement based on wishful thinking. Terman said no such thing about stationary antennas. The energy for the corona referenced by Terman is coming from the movement of the airplane, i.e. from the engine fuel. Corona requires a supply of energy that simply doesn't exist for a stationary receiving antenna under fairweather conditions. If the airplane was not moving, i.e. not being supplied with energy by the engines, the corona would probably not exist. Comparing a moving airplane to a stationary antenna is apples and oranges and is therefore an invalid argument. If we supply the antenna with enough RF energy from a transmitter, corona will surely occur. But a supply of extra energy from a transmitter or from a moving airplane is not what we have been discussing. We have been discussing fairweather conditions for a stationary antenna. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225592 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4ecmg.101400$H71.89899@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:26:52 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > Actually, when it comes to some of the issues raised on this newsgroup, > yes, I do. I don't see why I should believe what Cecil makes up in his > head just because he makes it up in his head. Do you really think I faked all those web page references including one from NASA? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225593 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:28:19 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > Besides, if Cecil can't demonstrate the validity of his > views experimentally, even if there are some sources that agree > with him, he's just parroting the old wives. Please describe your experiments for proving Maxwell's equations. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225594 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <%Lcmg.153086$F_3.102717@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:32:27 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Given charged dirt (dust) particles encountering a bare-wire >> dipole, all the rest is simple physics. > > Prove that this causes radio frequency noise, Cecil. Already have previously in this thread, Tom. I even drew you guys some pictures. Maybe you should actually read what I have posted instead of continuing to do nothing but regurgitate your gut feelings over and over and over ... -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225595 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:06:26 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > How do you know there is no corona discharge? Because under passive fairweather conditions, corona requires 13 magnitudes more current than is available in nature. Please see my other posting. And just a comment on your seeming innocent question above. You seem to be asking me to prove that there is no corona discharge when proving a negative is impossible. The onus of proof is upon the one(s) who assert(s) the positive position. W8JI asserted that there is a corona discharge and you agreed with him. Therefore, the onus of proof is upon you. Please prove that corona can exist on a receiving antenna under passive fairweather conditions. People are free to assert negatives at any time without any proof. For instance, if I assert that you cannot dunk a basketball, my assertion will remain true until you prove that you can dunk a basketball. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225596 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison) Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:19:49 -0500 Message-ID: <26434-44996395-4@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> References: Gene, W4SZ wrote: "Cecil claims that corona cannot exist in "fairweather" conditions, although there is no reason given." My broadcast station experience includes blue-skys in advance of thunderstorms when guy-wire segements became so charged that the compression insulators separating the guy segments would flashover with loud bangs. These times would be windy. My conclusion is that charged air particles (ions) strike the guy wires charging them to high but varying potentials. The arc or flashover between segments is a corona of short duration, not St. Elmo`s fire. It sounds like a gun shot. These may become so numerous that the sounds are as if a battle were occurring. The sounds are not unlike shorting the leads of a highly-charged large capacitor. If leakage across the insulators were fast enough, rhere would be no bangs. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI Article: 225597 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:26:43 -0500 Message-ID: <44996577$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > Tom Donaly wrote: > > Besides, if Cecil can't demonstrate the validity of his > > views experimentally, even if there are some sources that agree > > with him, he's just parroting the old wives. > > Please describe your experiments for proving Maxwell's equations. > -- you raise a good point. first of all, Tom is wrong. not much of anything can be proven. in mathematics, you proceed from axioms, which are accepted assumptions. then you chain things together to result in proof. some proofs are more formal than others. Russell and Whitehead attempted to axiomatize mathematics, which resulted in failure. Russell never did serious math again. Tom should read the work of Godel, Chatin, and Turing. in M-theory (strings), there are many things which can't be proven at this time, and may never be proven. there are some experiments which never can be performed. this why we say string theory is unfalsifiable. so toss out this idea of "proof", because it's a just a term that engineers think they know something about. and i didn't even get started on epistemology. Gravity > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225598 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Gerry Wheeler" References: Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:38:05 GMT "Wayne" wrote in message news:j4zlg.6911$nS5.3987@trnddc07... > 1. Try hollow fiberglass blank arrows. (if the available length is long > enough) They used to be available at certain sporting goods stores, or > you could buy an arrow and cut the ends off. I spoke to a friend of mine who works in the archery business (Parker Bows), and he says that hollow fiberglass is almost non-existant now. Everything has switched over to carbon fiber tubes. He says the blanks are about 32" long before being made into arrows, so that might limit their uses. -- Gerry KG4NBB Article: 225599 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Eric the hair Oyen" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150857696.693445.194550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:01:46 -0400 Message-ID: <44996018$0$9926$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "an_old_friend" wrote in message news:1150857696.693445.194550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Slow Code wrote: >> > You don't want to learn CW, you shouldn't be allowed on ham radio. >> >> Are you really ready to kick hundreds of thousands of >> no-code techs off of vhf/uhf? > he is prepared but thankfully the FCC dsagrees > You're drunk on cum again, markie. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 225600 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <44996577$0$16388$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:15:14 GMT gravity wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > >>Tom Donaly wrote: >> >>>Besides, if Cecil can't demonstrate the validity of his >>>views experimentally, even if there are some sources that agree >>>with him, he's just parroting the old wives. >> >>Please describe your experiments for proving Maxwell's equations. >>-- > > > you raise a good point. > > first of all, Tom is wrong. not much of anything can be proven. in > mathematics, you proceed from axioms, which are accepted assumptions. then > you chain things together to result in proof. some proofs are more formal > than others. > > Russell and Whitehead attempted to axiomatize mathematics, which resulted in > failure. Russell never did serious math again. Tom should read the work of > Godel, Chatin, and Turing. > > in M-theory (strings), there are many things which can't be proven at this > time, and may never be proven. there are some experiments which never can > be performed. this why we say string theory is unfalsifiable. > > so toss out this idea of "proof", because it's a just a term that engineers > think they know something about. > > and i didn't even get started on epistemology. > > Gravity > > >>73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > > If nothing can be proven, then how do you know I'm wrong? Besides, it isn't a question of whether or not I'm right. It's a question of whether or not to believe the fantasies of people who are unwilling to examine Nature. If you've really read and understood the mathematicians, you'd know that few, or none, of them care the slightest about the real world. It now seems that some physicists - the string theorists - have decided to move to Cloud Cuckoo Land (See Jonathon Swift) so they can live in a nice, comfortable world of well-paid solipsism, confident that a theory that is incapable of proof, is also incapable of disproof. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225601 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:23:47 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Tom Donaly wrote: > >> Besides, if Cecil can't demonstrate the validity of his >> views experimentally, even if there are some sources that agree >> with him, he's just parroting the old wives. > > > Please describe your experiments for proving Maxwell's equations. Maxwell thought up Maxwell's equations, Cecil, you didn't. Heinrich Hertz, Farady, and others did the experimentation. Besides, you only have to turn on your radio to prove the equations valid. Even Maxwell knew that without experimental proof, his fine mathematics was only idle speculation. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225602 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:47:10 GMT "Gerry Wheeler" wrote in message news:xJdmg.9207$o4.6485@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... > "Wayne" wrote in message > news:j4zlg.6911$nS5.3987@trnddc07... >> 1. Try hollow fiberglass blank arrows. (if the available length is long >> enough) They used to be available at certain sporting goods stores, or >> you could buy an arrow and cut the ends off. > > I spoke to a friend of mine who works in the archery business (Parker > Bows), and he says that hollow fiberglass is almost non-existant now. > Everything has switched over to carbon fiber tubes. He says the blanks are > about 32" long before being made into arrows, so that might limit their > uses. > -- > Gerry KG4NBB Hi Gerry Do you know the aproximate price of a blank? Jerry > > Article: 225603 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: From: Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <4497fa98$0$5227$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:00:39 -0500 In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Cecil Moore wrote: : When I got my driver's license in 1952, the driving test : was required to be taken on a stick shift vehicle. Do : you think that should still be a requirement? Yes. -- 73 Chris Cox, N0UK, G4JEC Come and join us here in Bloomington, Minnesota, home of the Mall of America, July 27 & 28, 2006 for the 40th annual Central States VHF Society Conference which will be hosted once again by the NLRS. Article: 225604 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:26:28 -0500 Message-ID: <44998188$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Sfdmg.153105$F_3.132648@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > Gene Fuller wrote: > > How do you know there is no corona discharge? > > Because under passive fairweather conditions, corona > requires 13 magnitudes more current than is available > in nature. Please see my other posting. > > And just a comment on your seeming innocent question > above. You seem to be asking me to prove that there > is no corona discharge when proving a negative is > impossible. The onus of proof is upon the one(s) who > assert(s) the positive position. > > W8JI asserted that there is a corona discharge and > you agreed with him. Therefore, the onus of proof > is upon you. Please prove that corona can exist > on a receiving antenna under passive fairweather > conditions. > > People are free to assert negatives at any time > without any proof. For instance, if I assert that > you cannot dunk a basketball, my assertion will > remain true until you prove that you can dunk > a basketball. you can restate most negatives as positives. an example of this is a logical statement, in which case the contrapositive is always true. if P, then Q. if not Q, then not P. another example is Demorgan's theorem in set theory and electronics. if you say that general relativity is wrong, the burden is on you to prove otherwise. if the corona discharge theory is held by 90% of physicists and engineers, then anyone with a charged particle theory (a minority viewpoint) must do experimental verification or formulate a theoretical model. in this case, i think that both Cecil and others should cite peer reviewed articles. Gravity Article: 225605 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:31:59 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Please describe your experiments for proving Maxwell's equations. > > Maxwell thought up Maxwell's equations, Cecil, you didn't. Aha, so you don't even follow your own advice. I quote conventional wisdom from the last 100 years of physics research and you ask me to to prove it experimentally. Why do you try to hold me to a higher standard than the one to which you hold W8JI and yourself? Everything I have reported is old hat to competent physicists and competent engineers who know anything at all about atmospheric physics. What you and others have asserted goes against 100 years of conventional wisdom and thousands of experiments in the field of atmospheric physics during those 100 years. In fact, the only way to win your argument now is to prove that a Corona God really exists and is in control of fairweather fields. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225606 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <44998188$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:49:41 GMT gravity wrote: > if the corona discharge theory is held by 90% of physicists and engineers, > then anyone with a charged particle theory (a minority viewpoint) must do > experimental verification or formulate a theoretical model. 100% of physicists and engineers hold the corona discharge theory. 0.1% of posters to r.r.a.a seem to hold that corona discharge is the only force at work in the entire universe and caused the big bang. :-) 99.9% of competent physicists and competent engineers know that corona is not the only cause of RF noise. Unfortunately, r.r.a.a. has more than its fair share of people who deny the past 100 years of scientific experimentation and research into atmospheric physics and stick with their Corona God religion. Other assertions by that same new-world anti-conventional wisdom crowd: Reflected waves contain zero energy and are not the cause of standing waves. Standing-wave energy just sloshes from side to side in a transmission line. The distributed network model is gobbledygook. Lumped-circuit analysis never fails. There is zero delay through a real-world 75m bugcatcher coil. Charged particle RF noise doesn't exist. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225607 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:00:53 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Cecil claims that corona cannot exist in "fairweather" conditions, >> although there is no reason given. > > Again, obviously a false statement based on wishful thinking. > As proved by my references, the existence of corona requires > ~100 uA per cm^2. Quoting from the previous NASA web page, for > the fairweather field, "the current is 10^-12 amps per square > meter." > > Requirement for corona to exist: > > 100 uA per cm^2 = 10 amps per square meter > > Available current during fairweather conditions: > > 10^-12 amps per square meter > > Conclusion: During fairweather conditions, the current is > 13 magnitudes too low for corona to exist. > Cecil, That's a good one. I believe the fairweather reference relates to the average current density over the entire earth. The corona reference (which does not even come close to being a "requirement") applies to a very localized environment. If the average current density over the entire earth increased to 100 uA per cm^2 I think it might be best to live far underground. I have not measured currents, fields, or corona in the atmosphere, but I have some experience with high voltage equipment in laboratory environments. I can assure you that corona can occur even when there are no preexisting fields or currents in the surrounding air. High voltage and sharp emission points are quite adequate. The fairweather current and the corona current are completely unrelated. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225608 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:08:55 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> How do you know there is no corona discharge? > > Because under passive fairweather conditions, corona > requires 13 magnitudes more current than is available > in nature. Please see my other posting. > > And just a comment on your seeming innocent question > above. You seem to be asking me to prove that there > is no corona discharge when proving a negative is > impossible. The onus of proof is upon the one(s) who > assert(s) the positive position. > > W8JI asserted that there is a corona discharge and > you agreed with him. Therefore, the onus of proof > is upon you. Please prove that corona can exist > on a receiving antenna under passive fairweather > conditions. > Cecil, I have not said that I agree with W8JI or that corona is a necessary condition for radio noise. What I have said is that I disagree with your half-baked fractured physics explanations. Corona does not require ANY preexisting current, and certainly not the global "fairweather" current. The high fields near a sharp point will create all the corona current necessary. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225609 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <44998188$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:12:56 -0500 Message-ID: <44998c6d$0$14505$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:VEfmg.70003$4L1.11537@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > gravity wrote: > > if the corona discharge theory is held by 90% of physicists and engineers, > > then anyone with a charged particle theory (a minority viewpoint) must do > > experimental verification or formulate a theoretical model. > > 100% of physicists and engineers hold the corona discharge > theory. 0.1% of posters to r.r.a.a seem to hold that corona > discharge is the only force at work in the entire universe > and caused the big bang. :-) > > 99.9% of competent physicists and competent > engineers know that corona is not the only cause of RF > noise. Unfortunately, r.r.a.a. has more than its fair share > of people who deny the past 100 years of scientific experimentation > and research into atmospheric physics and stick with their Corona > God religion. > > Other assertions by that same new-world anti-conventional > wisdom crowd: > > Reflected waves contain zero energy and are not the cause > of standing waves. > > Standing-wave energy just sloshes from side to side in a > transmission line. > > The distributed network model is gobbledygook. > > Lumped-circuit analysis never fails. > > There is zero delay through a real-world 75m bugcatcher coil. > > Charged particle RF noise doesn't exist. LMAO. i enjoyed reading this. Gravity > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225610 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dr. Noonian Soong" References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150809924.627366.210800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:18:36 -0500 Message-ID: <44998dc1$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> darpa dave wrote: >I served for 6 years as Program Chief Engineer on the USAF MX > Missile (WS-118) RS/RV]. MX missiles destroyed my country, you insensitive clod! Soong Article: 225611 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gwatts Subject: Re: PVC for antenna construction ? References: Message-ID: <3cgmg.4072$Oh1.3246@news01.roc.ny> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:27:11 GMT Gerry Wheeler wrote: > "Jerry Martes" wrote in message > news:iKemg.4278$Td6.1753@trnddc08... > >> Do you know the aproximate price of a blank? > > > No, he didn't say. Sorry. > > I suspect they're not generally available... Try these (items RR348, RR360, RR372) http://www.swpowerfence.com/cat20.htm or these (items SM63, SM67 and SM69) http://www.swpowerfence.com/cat11.htm I get 'em at my local ag supply store, - W8LNA Article: 225612 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jozef" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <5h4mg.138$lv.13@fed1read12> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:40:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1150915116.378793@r2d2.vermontel.net> Hi there. Just a quick thought. I will not jump into the code vs. no-code fray. That said, I'd like to pass on an experience I had with a college professor friend of mine many years ago, now passed (Doc Bronfield WA2SMW). I learned CW at the age of 9 using flashing light. Now age 57. Got my novice at age 14 and general at age 15. The extra came easy as did 30 wpm plus CW. Not so with my friend Doc. He tried and tried, and then we realized that he had aural dyslexia. So I had an idea. With the help of local engineering types. They built a keyer that could sent different frequencies slightly for the dits and dahs. That was what he needed to get his code speed up and pass the general using the keyer during a FCC test. Here's what I believe should happen with CW. When I passed my extra there were no extra class operating privileges issued, but the FCC issued a nice Extra class certificate for the accomplishment (which I still have). I suggest we leave the 5 wpm code requirement in place as it now is, but go back to issuing the 20 wpm certificate by VE's. That would, perhaps, satisfy, the pro-code folk? It would reward the accomplishment without necessarily making it an Extra class requirement. Jozef Hand-Boniakowski WB2MIC "Sal M. Onella" wrote in message news:5h4mg.138$lv.13@fed1read12... > > "pltrgyst" wrote in message > news:p7sf921alq8bjm4rp0269lvrosks1458tf@4ax.com... > > Dyslexia cannot apply, unless it is dyslexia that affects the >> remembered dot/dash pattern of a single character. > > Well, Larry, it took you to the last sentence, but you did actually lurch > into the problem. > Within seconds after learning what dah-dit-dit-dah means (or > dit-dah-dah-dit, for that matter), I fail to > accurately recognize them when they are sent again. Hundreds of tries -- > all failures, all mine. > > From your lofty perch, as a successful Morse Code user, you look down on > me. > You could stand to learn a > little humility. It would serve you and the amateur community better than > dah-dit-dah any day. > > Article: 225613 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: earlpearl@florida.news (Earl the pearl) Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right Message-ID: References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:44:05 GMT In article <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net>, jawod wrote: >t we're dealing with President Bush here. He don't >> listen to Lazy Stupid people. If listened to what Lazy stupid people wanted, > >> we'd be cutting and running from Iraq like the Democrats want and he ain't >> cutting and running. >> >> There's still hope. Send that email. Save amateur radio and shortwave. >> >> Earl >Man, that is the most pathetic thing I've seen posted in a while. > >Don't get me started about Iraq. > >Where have you been for the last 3 years? > >Regarding "W": No, he "ain't" cuttin' and runnin'. > >But our boys are dying. And I'll be damned if I know why. And your ass is a lot safer now under President Bush than it ever was with Bill Clinton. Clinton was only interested in saving his own ass. So email Bush. He might like to help us save ham radio as much as he likes saving your ass from terrorists. 73 Earl Article: 225614 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Alan" References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net> Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:57:44 GMT "Earl the pearl" wrote in message news:sd04i-sdk4-ssoikre@miami.fl.news... > And your ass is a lot safer now under President Bush than it ever was with > Bill Clinton. Clinton was only interested in saving his own ass. $400,000,000,000 and counting. Do you honestly feel safer? Not only do we have to deal with Iraq, but now we have to deal with N. Korea and Iran, situations that were exacerbated by lumping them into the "Axis of Evil", whatever that is. > > So email Bush. He might like to help us save ham radio as much as he likes > saving your ass from terrorists. 73 He'll sell out just like all the other politicians. If the energy companies want to run roughshod over our HF with BPL, or if cell phone companies want to buy our higher frequency bands, they will. The Golden Rule: He who has the gold rules. Alan Article: 225615 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:15:06 -0500 Message-ID: <129j6ltcabaei12@corp.supernews.com> References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150809924.627366.210800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <44998dc1$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Dr. Noonian Soong wrote: > darpa dave wrote: > > >>I served for 6 years as Program Chief Engineer on the USAF MX >>Missile (WS-118) RS/RV]. > > > MX missiles destroyed my country, you insensitive clod! > > Soong > > In as much as the MX missile carries a hydrogen warhead I don't think that Soong's country was destroyed by one. Article: 225616 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ULF antennas From: chuck Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:46:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1150918493_2389@sp6iad.superfeed.net> References: <4496bfaa$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> gravity wrote: > i've been considering an antenna for the audio frequency range plus 1 to 20 > hz. basically a big coil would work. > > i've thought about using a steel drum, but i don't have room for that in my > new QTH. mu metal rods would be very expensive, even ferrite would be > expensive for an 100,000 turn antenna. > > not sure what to use. maybe steel core. > > Gravity > > You can always use an active antenna. Here's one the claims performance from 30 Hz to 50 MHz. www.ets-lindgren.com/manuals/3301B.pdf Chuck Article: 225617 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <44998188$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 19:43:16 GMT gravity wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:Sfdmg.153105$F_3.132648@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > >>Gene Fuller wrote: >> >>>How do you know there is no corona discharge? >> >>Because under passive fairweather conditions, corona >>requires 13 magnitudes more current than is available >>in nature. Please see my other posting. >> >>And just a comment on your seeming innocent question >>above. You seem to be asking me to prove that there >>is no corona discharge when proving a negative is >>impossible. The onus of proof is upon the one(s) who >>assert(s) the positive position. >> >>W8JI asserted that there is a corona discharge and >>you agreed with him. Therefore, the onus of proof >>is upon you. Please prove that corona can exist >>on a receiving antenna under passive fairweather >>conditions. >> >>People are free to assert negatives at any time >>without any proof. For instance, if I assert that >>you cannot dunk a basketball, my assertion will >>remain true until you prove that you can dunk >>a basketball. > > > you can restate most negatives as positives. an example of this is a > logical statement, in which case the contrapositive is always true. if P, > then Q. if not Q, then not P. another example is Demorgan's theorem in set > theory and electronics. > > if you say that general relativity is wrong, the burden is on you to prove > otherwise. > > if the corona discharge theory is held by 90% of physicists and engineers, > then anyone with a charged particle theory (a minority viewpoint) must do > experimental verification or formulate a theoretical model. > > in this case, i think that both Cecil and others should cite peer reviewed > articles. > > Gravity > > Don't be an ass, Gravity. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225618 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: The Google Hypothesis of Guru Elevation - The Guroogle References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 19:58:39 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:50:31 GMT, "Tom Donaly" > wrote: > > >>Notice how he used the Mensa Society post to destroy the discourse? > > > Hi Tom, > > I notice past membership is one of those unprovable positive facts. > > >>there are, >>alas, people who are soft-minded enough not only to take him seriously, >>but to agree with him as well. > > > So rare so that Cecil has to offer they support him in secret email. > Even this is about hit counts when your thumb is on the scale. ;-) > > >>I think Roy had the right idea when >>he plonked him. The rest of us should probably follow Roy's example. > > > What's the fun in that? Pick one point and drill down; ignore the > side topics and drill down; discard the tailored citations and drill > down. Everyone of these drillings leads to a dry hole. > win-lose (classic American competition) > > And yes, Mike, busting on Cecil is one pursuit here, we will leave it > to you to judge if it is indiscriminant and across the board, or fits > to threads dominated 9:1 by your Rodney King of the antennas. > > Gimme another baton! I broke mine! > (classic American entertainment) > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Hi Richard, Cecil is impervious to criticism, anyway. As long as he can think up "objection stoppers," as fast as an encyclopedia salesman selling his wares to impoverished housewives, no one can get to him. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225619 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:09:47 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <44998188$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Tom Donaly wrote: > Don't be an ass, Gravity. > 73, > Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Hi Tom, Consider the origin and nature of shot noise. 73, ac6xg Article: 225620 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <9TSlg.101112$H71.51890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <9SUlg.3599$Td6.1671@trnddc08> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:33:31 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > John - KD5YI wrote: > >> Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> "In contrast to rain, precipitation currents carried to >>> ground by snow are usually always negative under >>> potential gradients between +/- 800 V/m (Chalmers 1956). >>> The total precipitation current around the earth is >>> estimated to be about +340 amperes." >> >> >> So that would give a current of about 0.06 picoamperes per square foot? > > > I assume that's an average value. Localized values could > be much less or much greater. It is the 340 amperes divided by the surface area of the earth in square feet. I guess you could call it an average. So, "much greater" than 6E-14 would be what, maybe 6E-13? Article: 225621 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: FSM software update - V1.11 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:55:10 GMT Announcing release of FSM V1.11. FSM (for Field Strength Meter) is a software application that extends a conventional SSB receiver to allow measurement and calculation of field strength of radio signals, noise or interference. FSM is a software implementation of the technique described by Ed Hare of the ARRL in "Manual Testing of Field-Strength Levels Using Conventional Receivers" dated August 2004 . Version 1.11 revises the algorithm for calculating receive power from the Step 2 and Step 3 measurements to increase FSM's flexibility and accuracy at lower measurement levels, allowing measurement of noise levels with Fa below 0dB. This has allowed relaxation of some limits that were needed for the older algorithm, and an associated change to the calibration utility. Documentation has been updated accordingly. For more about FSM, go to http://www.vk1od.net/fsm/ . To download the installation package, go to http://www.vk1od.net/fsm/support.htm . FSM announcements are published in the VK1OD-Newsletter. To subscribe to the newsletter, send email to VK1OD-Newsletter-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Owen -- Article: 225622 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <44998188$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:57:12 GMT Jim Kelley wrote: > Tom Donaly wrote: > >> Don't be an ass, Gravity. >> 73, >> Tom Donaly, KA6RUH > > > Hi Tom, > > Consider the origin and nature of shot noise. > > 73, ac6xg > Is that what's causing the Santa Ana wind interference? 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225623 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ron Subject: Re: FSM software update - V1.11 Date: 21 Jun 2006 18:56:09 EDT Message-ID: <4499D014.2030002@yahoo.com> References: OK I downloaded it and now it says it is not a valid Win32 Application ????????????????????? Ron WA0KDS Owen Duffy wrote: > Announcing release of FSM V1.11. > > FSM (for Field Strength Meter) is a software application that extends > a conventional SSB receiver to allow measurement and calculation of > field strength of radio signals, noise or interference. FSM is a > software implementation of the technique described by Ed Hare of the > ARRL in "Manual Testing of Field-Strength Levels Using Conventional > Receivers" dated August 2004 . > > Version 1.11 revises the algorithm for calculating receive power from > the Step 2 and Step 3 measurements to increase FSM's flexibility and > accuracy at lower measurement levels, allowing measurement of noise > levels with Fa below 0dB. > > This has allowed relaxation of some limits that were needed for the > older algorithm, and an associated change to the calibration utility. > Documentation has been updated accordingly. > > For more about FSM, go to http://www.vk1od.net/fsm/ . > > To download the installation package, go to > http://www.vk1od.net/fsm/support.htm . > > FSM announcements are published in the VK1OD-Newsletter. To subscribe > to the newsletter, send email to > VK1OD-Newsletter-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Owen > > -- Article: 225624 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The Google Hypothesis of Guru Elevation - The Guroogle References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <7Icmg.153084$F_3.111834@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:38:28 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > You're absolutely right, Richard. Of course, if he can use all of > his rural debate tricks to get people who disagree with him > into abandoning the thread, then he thinks he can claim victory > as being the only combatant left on the field of honor. Notice how > he used the Mensa Society post to destroy the discourse? Cecil isn't > really serious, as you point out, and his posts are only valuable for > their entertainment value, as you also point out, but there are, > alas, people who are soft-minded enough not only to take him seriously, > but to agree with him as well. I think Roy had the right idea when > he plonked him. The rest of us should probably follow Roy's example. Ad hominem character assignation instead of any technical content? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225625 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:41:00 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > I can assure you that corona can occur even when there are > no preexisting fields or currents in the surrounding air. High voltage > and sharp emission points are quite adequate. Of course, the high voltage is a *man-made energy source* having absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about. Will your diversions and obfuscations never end? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225626 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <4499D8E0.4090506@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 19:40:16 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right References: <1150795396.623646.19870@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <44988A7D.5070900@fuse.net> > > > > And your ass is a lot safer now under President Bush than it ever was with > Bill Clinton. Clinton was only interested in saving his own ass. > > All of our collective asses were MUCH safer in the Clinton years. How safe can you be when the "elected" President is less powerful than his Vice President? Who went to the bunker on 9/11? Cheney, not Bush. Article: 225627 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:42:21 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > Corona does not require ANY preexisting current, and certainly not the > global "fairweather" current. The high fields near a sharp point will > create all the corona current necessary. Where is the energy coming from? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225628 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Slow Code References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:51:00 GMT Cecil Moore wrote in news:r82mg.119731$dW3.70506@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com: > Slow Code wrote: >> You don't want to learn CW, you shouldn't be allowed on ham radio. > > Are you really ready to kick hundreds of thousands of > no-code techs off of vhf/uhf? No, Not kick them off. When their license comes up for renewel they would have to pass the 5 wpm code element that Techs used to have to take to get the license. sc Article: 225629 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:24:11 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> I can assure you that corona can occur even when there are no >> preexisting fields or currents in the surrounding air. High voltage >> and sharp emission points are quite adequate. > > Of course, the high voltage is a *man-made energy source* having > absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about. Will > your diversions and obfuscations never end? Cecil, You are seriously confused. The energy source is completely irrelevant. The only issue is what causes the noise heard in the receiver. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225630 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:27:55 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> Corona does not require ANY preexisting current, and certainly not the >> global "fairweather" current. The high fields near a sharp point will >> create all the corona current necessary. > > Where is the energy coming from? Who cares? Do you have your energy hammer out? Does every problem need to look like an energy nail? 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225631 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:22:52 -0400 From: "J. D. B." Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right References: Message-ID: I would also add that you must be able to prove that you can trace your ancestry back to 1776 or earlier in order to hold an Amateur Radio License as only decedents, of real Americans around at the time of the Revolutionary War, should be allowed to possess a license. Also, that you not be allowed to operate any tube gear. It sucks too much electricity and is helping to destroy the environment. You must build your own equipment. Ban all manufacturers of amateur gear, unless of course, it is made in America in which case a 200% tariff should be added to help fund the FCC with all this additional testing that you would now require. All amateur operators must also pass a spelling and grammar test. They must not be overweight and have perfect hygiene and never smell at any hamfests - especially Dayton. Once you start riding an electric cart at Dayton or any other hamfest, your Amateur Radio license is immediately revoked. There are probably some other items that need to be added to the list of requirements, but I will submit those to these groups later. Earl the pearl wrote: > Dear Mr President: > > The FCC has been dumbing down ham radio for several years now. This has > hurt the integrity of the service and is bad for America. They are > planning to dumb it down again really soon now and their plan will make > ham radio like CB and it will be bad for America. We already have one CB > service on HF, we don't need two. Please pressure the FCC to endorse the > following items for the good of the service and America. I wish you could > run again for a third term, I would vote for you. I'm glad Al Gore wasn't > able to steal the election, and John Kerry would have been a disaster, he'd > be kissing terrorist butts and brown nosing them. Thanks for the fine > job you're doing protecting and leading America. > > Signed > (Your name & callsign) > > > No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all elements > required for their license class. > > The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. > > Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra. > > Make the no-code license one year non-renewable. > Article: 225632 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:44:29 -0700 "gravity" wrote in message news:44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net... < snip > > > > > argumentum ad hominem. if you killfile him because you dislike him, that is > one thing. but if you say he is wrong because you are an engineer, that is > a logical fallacy. > > this is why we need to add critical analysis to the engineering curriculum. Yeah but in newsgroups argumentum ad hominem is practically the order of the day. I only offered my education to refute the "lazy or a tard [sic]" cheap shot. Article: 225633 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <1150939734.558036.316100@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:55:28 -0500 Message-ID: <449a2308$0$16372$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> wrote in message news:1150939734.558036.316100@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Gene Fuller wrote: > > Cecil Moore wrote: > > > Gene Fuller wrote: > > >> Corona does not require ANY preexisting current, and certainly not the > > >> global "fairweather" current. The high fields near a sharp point will > > >> create all the corona current necessary. > > > > > > Where is the energy coming from? > > > > > > Who cares? Do you have your energy hammer out? Does every problem need > > to look like an energy nail? > > > > 73, > > Gene > > W4SZ > > > I've been away for a few days. Did Cecil ever figure out what was wrong > with his idea about the folded dipole? > > I was hoping someone else would walk him through it. Or is he stuck on > something else now? he seems to be writing a manifesto entitled "Particle Theory for Dummies" with subtitle "W8JI is wrong!". Gravity > > 73 Tom > Article: 225634 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gcd" Subject: Re: FSM software update - V1.11 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:44:48 +1000 Message-ID: <129kbidib8hvs41@corp.supernews.com> References: <4499D014.2030002@yahoo.com> it may have not downloaded all 1mb, try again. 1st time i downloaded, it only downloaded about 1/4 of the 1MB for some reason - indicated 1mb file but terminated 1/4 way through. 2nd attempt got it all Greg "Ron" wrote in message news:4499D014.2030002@yahoo.com... > OK I downloaded it and now it says it is not a valid Win32 Application > ????????????????????? > > Ron WA0KDS > > > Owen Duffy wrote: >> Announcing release of FSM V1.11. >> >> FSM (for Field Strength Meter) is a software application that extends >> a conventional SSB receiver to allow measurement and calculation of >> field strength of radio signals, noise or interference. FSM is a >> software implementation of the technique described by Ed Hare of the >> ARRL in "Manual Testing of Field-Strength Levels Using Conventional >> Receivers" dated August 2004 . >> >> Version 1.11 revises the algorithm for calculating receive power from the >> Step 2 and Step 3 measurements to increase FSM's flexibility and accuracy >> at lower measurement levels, allowing measurement of noise levels with Fa >> below 0dB. >> >> This has allowed relaxation of some limits that were needed for the older >> algorithm, and an associated change to the calibration utility. >> Documentation has been updated accordingly. >> >> For more about FSM, go to http://www.vk1od.net/fsm/ . >> >> To download the installation package, go to >> http://www.vk1od.net/fsm/support.htm . >> >> FSM announcements are published in the VK1OD-Newsletter. To subscribe >> to the newsletter, send email to >> VK1OD-Newsletter-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> Owen >> >> -- Article: 225635 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ron Subject: Re: FSM software update - V1.11 Date: 22 Jun 2006 02:25:46 EDT Message-ID: <449A397B.2060706@yahoo.com> References: <4499D014.2030002@yahoo.com> <129kbidib8hvs41@corp.supernews.com> Yup it took me 25 tries finally to get it downloaded.. Ron WA0KDS gcd wrote: > it may have not downloaded all 1mb, try again. > > 1st time i downloaded, it only downloaded about 1/4 of the 1MB for some > reason - indicated 1mb file but terminated 1/4 way through. 2nd attempt got > it all > > Greg > > > "Ron" wrote in message news:4499D014.2030002@yahoo.com... > >>OK I downloaded it and now it says it is not a valid Win32 Application >>????????????????????? >> >>Ron WA0KDS >> >> >>Owen Duffy wrote: >> >>>Announcing release of FSM V1.11. >>> >>>FSM (for Field Strength Meter) is a software application that extends >>>a conventional SSB receiver to allow measurement and calculation of >>>field strength of radio signals, noise or interference. FSM is a >>>software implementation of the technique described by Ed Hare of the >>>ARRL in "Manual Testing of Field-Strength Levels Using Conventional >>>Receivers" dated August 2004 . >>> >>>Version 1.11 revises the algorithm for calculating receive power from the >>>Step 2 and Step 3 measurements to increase FSM's flexibility and accuracy >>>at lower measurement levels, allowing measurement of noise levels with Fa >>>below 0dB. >>> >>>This has allowed relaxation of some limits that were needed for the older >>>algorithm, and an associated change to the calibration utility. >>>Documentation has been updated accordingly. >>> >>>For more about FSM, go to http://www.vk1od.net/fsm/ . >>> >>>To download the installation package, go to >>>http://www.vk1od.net/fsm/support.htm . >>> >>>FSM announcements are published in the VK1OD-Newsletter. To subscribe >>>to the newsletter, send email to >>>VK1OD-Newsletter-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> >>>Owen >>> >>>-- > > > Article: 225636 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: FSM software update - V1.11 Message-ID: <5tek92pieu8nlcj0cagu952e9rm8vt20kp@4ax.com> References: <4499D014.2030002@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:53:28 GMT On 21 Jun 2006 18:56:09 EDT, Ron wrote: >OK I downloaded it and now it says it is not a valid Win32 Application >????????????????????? Some advice: 1. Check to see the download completed properly (ie that the file has not be truncated). It seems that some clients may not warn you if the download failed for some reason. FSMSetup.exe v1.11 should be exactly 1,062,400 bytes (right click the file name in explorer and click properties to get the exact file size). 2. Scan your computer (and the download) with an up to date and effective virus scanner, there are a number of viruses that exhibit these symptoms. If you are confident that you do not have virus infection, the file FSMSetup.exe is actually a self extracting ZIP file. You should be able to open it with WINZIP, Powerarchiver, PKUNZIP etc (if you have one), extract the files to a temporary directory, and run the setup.exe file. That will bypass the issue that you seem to have with the self extractor. If the file cannot be opened with ZIP, it is a pretty sure sign it has been corrupted (even if the length is correct). Owen -- Article: 225637 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: FSM software update - V1.11 Message-ID: References: <4499D014.2030002@yahoo.com> <129kbidib8hvs41@corp.supernews.com> <449A397B.2060706@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:05:50 GMT On 22 Jun 2006 02:25:46 EDT, Ron wrote: >Yup it took me 25 tries finally to get it downloaded.. Well Ron, I am sorry you have had so much trouble. I am at a loss to explain it, I have just downloaded it 10 times without a hitch (they are all the correct size and pass a PKUNZIP -vt test). Owen -- Article: 225638 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" Subject: antenna papers Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:08:47 -0500 Message-ID: <449a5059$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> any good antenna theory sites? i have taken emag and difeqs, but i need something that it is easy on the brane. should i get the Kraus book? TIA, Gravity Article: 225639 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dr. Noonian Soong" References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150809924.627366.210800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <44998dc1$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129j6ltcabaei12@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:06:06 -0500 Message-ID: <449a87fc$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "David G. Nagel" wrote in message news:129j6ltcabaei12@corp.supernews.com... > In as much as the MX missile carries a hydrogen warhead I don't think > that Soong's country was destroyed by one. > Dr. Nagel, You please listen to me, I get PhD from big university. My university so expensive most American can't buy cafeteria lunch. Long time ago, many years, I make secret lair in Bikini Atoll. American call it that, but I rename to Soong's Micronesian Micronation. It has nice ring to it. Anyway, I build androids and mind my own business, but one day I monitor Americans and they say they blow up my island. Some missile test, but I say waste of perfectly good rocks. I detect submarine with my acoustics, and I transmit on ELF and say "Don't blow up my island please!" But my Engrish so bad, they get confused and jam me with much megawatts. I not give up though. I build big ideograph out of bamboo, it say "Don't blow up my island thanks". But they have no analyst that read my language. I escape in nick of time in my junk ship. look at picture, see big hole in middle of island? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_Atoll MX missile destroy me. Now I teach dumb punk how to repair personal computer. I get revenge. I build big contest station and beat everyone. Soong Article: 225640 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:26:00 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150727944.590467.294720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4496bf14$0$14238$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1150806861.808156.273640@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> <1150809924.627366.210800@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <44998dc1$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129j6ltcabaei12@corp.supernews.com> <449a87fc$0$16357$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: NOPE! The MX missile has 100% nothing to do with the Bikini Tests! Those tests were conducted after WWII and ended in the 1950s. The MX missile initial deployment was 1985. By today's standards, the Bikini tests were low yield [~20KT] fission devices. Today's standard is moderate yields [~300 to 500 KT] fission-fusion devices. MX has nothing to do with Bikini Atoll. Have fun building your androids. Dr. Noonian Soong wrote: > "David G. Nagel" wrote in message > news:129j6ltcabaei12@corp.supernews.com... > > >>In as much as the MX missile carries a hydrogen warhead I don't think >>that Soong's country was destroyed by one. >> > > > Dr. Nagel, > > You please listen to me, I get PhD from big university. My university so > expensive most American can't buy cafeteria lunch. > > Long time ago, many years, I make secret lair in Bikini Atoll. American > call it that, but I rename to Soong's Micronesian Micronation. It has nice > ring to it. > > Anyway, I build androids and mind my own business, but one day I monitor > Americans and they say they blow up my island. Some missile test, but I say > waste of perfectly good rocks. > > I detect submarine with my acoustics, and I transmit on ELF and say "Don't > blow up my island please!" But my Engrish so bad, they get confused and jam > me with much megawatts. I not give up though. I build big ideograph out of > bamboo, it say "Don't blow up my island thanks". But they have no analyst > that read my language. I escape in nick of time in my junk ship. > > look at picture, see big hole in middle of island? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_Atoll > > MX missile destroy me. Now I teach dumb punk how to repair personal > computer. I get revenge. I build big contest station and beat everyone. > > Soong > > Article: 225641 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:02:19 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> Where is the (corona) energy coming from? >> >> Who cares? > > Probably anyone reading this thread. On a clear sky day, > what is the source of energy for your sustained > 100 uA/cm^2 corona discharge? That energy has to come > from somewhere. Where does your corona energy come from? Cecil, You must have been asleep when your professors at TAMU explained basic problem solving techniques. There is often more than one way to correctly address a problem. In the case of many electrical problems it is possible to follow an approach that looks at the energy and it is also possible to follow an approach that looks at forces and fields. Neither approach is wrong, and in the end both must consistently yield the correct solution. It is often true, however, that one approach is much easier to pursue, and it therefore will be preferred. In this case there is no quantitative information about the sources of energy, the sinks of energy, or the transport of energy. This is not a well-bounded system in which the total energy can be easily defined. An energy-based solution is going to be hard to achieve. Stick to fields and forces for this one. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225642 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:11:59 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> The only issue is what causes the noise heard in the receiver. > > Receiver noise has many causes. Corona is certainly one > of them. There is absolutely no argument about that. > > Please provide a reference that says clear-sky wind- > driven charged dust particles cannot cause receiver > noise. Cecil, Absolutely no one has stated that clear-sky wind-driven charged dust particles cannot cause receiver noise. The entire issue is whether the charged dust leads to corona discharge or whether the charge from the dust finds it way directly through the receiver front end and into the audio system. For some reason you seem to believe that corona can exist only in environments where strong background fields exist and not in "clear sky" conditions. I don't know where you came up with that one, but it simply is not true. Your own favorite example of an arcing connector would seem to indicate that there is plenty of charging and voltage build-up on the antenna. If there is enough voltage to support connector arcing why would there not be enough voltage to support corona discharge from some sharp point on the antenna? 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225643 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:25:06 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > In this case there is no quantitative information about the sources of > energy, the sinks of energy, or the transport of energy. This is not a > well-bounded system in which the total energy can be easily defined. An > energy-based solution is going to be hard to achieve. Stick to fields > and forces for this one. But there is quantitative information about the source of energy for corona. You have to ignore that information because your corona concepts require violation of the conservation of energy principle. Where is the energy coming from to sustain a current flow of 100 uA/cm^2 under a clear sky? Fields and forces require a supply of energy. If there is not enough energy available under certain fairweather conditions to support your esoteric corona theories, then those theories are wrong. Of course a moving airplane can cause corona. The engine fuel is pumping energy into the system. Of course an RF transmitter can cause corona. The transmitter is pumping energy into the system. Under passive clear-sky fairweather conditions, what is pumping enough energy into the system to cause your corona? If you were correct, every lightning rod and antenna in the world would glow at night under starry skies. When is the last time you saw a lightning rod glow at night under perfectly cloudless skies? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225644 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Caveat Lector" References: <449a5059$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: antenna papers Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:22:07 -0700 Try URL: http://ac6v.com/antprojects.htm#theory -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! "gravity" wrote in message news:449a5059$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net... > any good antenna theory sites? i have taken emag and difeqs, but i need > something that it is easy on the brane. > > should i get the Kraus book? > > TIA, > > Gravity > > Article: 225645 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:38:42 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > Absolutely no one has stated that clear-sky wind-driven charged dust > particles cannot cause receiver noise. On the contrary, Gene, that is not true. W8JI's assertions to that effect is what started this argument. > w8ji@akorn.net wrote: >> People actually seem to think the little particles moving through the >> air charge the antenna to a different potential than the air around the >> antenna ... > >> All that crud hitting the antenna isn't significantly different in >> potential than the air around the element ... > >> I've never seen a case of precitation static occuring that way. >> In every single case I've seen, whether on tall buildings, tall >> towers, or antenna hear earth, it has always been corona discharges >> from the antenna or objects near the antenna. > >> The second is what is commonly called P-static. ... This is the >> mechanisim I disagree with being caused by particles striking the >> antenna. I have posted many web page references to show that rain, snow, and dust particles are subject to triboelectric charging. The fact that W8JI has never seen such is irrelevant. He never saw George Washington either. > The entire issue is whether the charged dust leads to corona discharge > or whether the charge from the dust finds it way directly through the > receiver front end and into the audio system. Then the argument boils down to whether the noise level threshold is *exactly* equal to the corona threshold. That means there is zero noise until 100 uA/cm^2 starts to flow through the air accompaning the corona. Can you appreciate how ridiculous such an argument really is? There is most probably a region between zero noise and corona where noise exists and corona doesn't exist. > For some reason you seem to believe that corona can exist only in > environments where strong background fields exist and not in "clear sky" > conditions. I don't know where you came up with that one, but it simply > is not true. Nope, I never said that. I asked you to prove that corona always accompanies charged particle noise even under clear sky conditions. So far, you have offered zero proof. If clear-sky wind-driven charged particles increase the noise level from S-1 to S-1.1 do you really expect us to believe that small amount of charge is enough to cause 100 uA/cm^2 of sustained current to flow through thin air? That is what is needed for corona to exist. > Your own favorite example of an arcing connector would seem to indicate > that there is plenty of charging and voltage build-up on the antenna. If > there is enough voltage to support connector arcing why would there not > be enough voltage to support corona discharge from some sharp point on > the antenna? That's not the question. The question is given 1% of the charge necessary to cause arcing, can RF noise exist without corona existing? If there is just one case of charged particle RF noise in the entire world in the absence of corona, your argument is wrong. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225646 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gene@csl.uiuc.edu (Gene Gardner) Subject: Re: BNC power capacity Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:16:57 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: I guess this is a case where one doesn't ask....he just does it! I have a 20 Meter Hi-Q Halo-type loop (6' dia) hanging from a tree limb about 40' high. I needed lighter weight so I used RG-58 about 75' long....well-matched at the antenna for very little SWR. I have been using this with 1 Kw SSB peak for about 10 years with no problems...this includes reasonably long tune-up with full carrier. Article: 225647 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ron Subject: Re: FSM software update - V1.11 Date: 22 Jun 2006 12:42:23 EDT Message-ID: <449AC9F5.1040007@yahoo.com> References: <4499D014.2030002@yahoo.com> <129kbidib8hvs41@corp.supernews.com> <449A397B.2060706@yahoo.com> I finally got it downloaded. I am not sure why but it would only down load about 100 to 200KB at a time. I have never had this happen before. I have downloaded 30 MB files with no problem even on my 56K modem all it takes is a lot of time but I never have the download just stop and think it was over. Anyway it is downloaded and seems to be OK now. Ron WA0KDS Owen Duffy wrote: > On 22 Jun 2006 02:25:46 EDT, Ron wrote: > > >>Yup it took me 25 tries finally to get it downloaded.. > > > Well Ron, I am sorry you have had so much trouble. > > I am at a loss to explain it, I have just downloaded it 10 times > without a hitch (they are all the correct size and pass a PKUNZIP -vt > test). > > Owen > -- Article: 225648 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <1150939734.558036.316100@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:11:46 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > I've never seen a case of precitation static occuring that way. ATIS is accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). http://www.atis.org/tg2k/_precipitation_static.html "precipitation static (p-static): Radio interference caused by the impact of charged particles against an antenna. Note: Precipitation static may occur in a receiver during certain weather conditions, such as snowstorms, hailstorms, rainstorms, dust storms, or combinations thereof." -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225649 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: How to model a 6:1 ratio balun using NEC2 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:32:38 -0700 Message-ID: <129ll1qre3mdr67@corp.supernews.com> References: <1150996648.944802.242350@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Changing the modeled line impedance to 300 ohms is correct if you really have a 6:1 transformer. But you probably don't. The impedance transformation of a typical 6:1 balun is around 6:1 when the antenna impedance is near 50 ohms resistive. However, when it's not, the transformation can be vastly different. And the balun is likely to add substantial series and/or shunt reactance to boot. So there's no way to know what impedance you'll really see looking into the transformer unless you measure one when loaded with various impedances. You should also know that a "voltage balun", which a 6:1 balun typically is, produces equal currents in the dipole halves, and no current on the feedline, only if the antenna is perfectly symmetrical. If the antenna isn't symmetrical (e.g. if it's fed off center), the "balun" will force common mode current to flow along the outside of the coax. This will affect the feedpoint impedance as well. See http://eznec.com/Amateur/Articles/Baluns.pdf for more information about this. Roy Lewallen, W7EL KC2PIH@gmail.com wrote: > I am using Nec Win Plus (NEC2) to view the SWR curve of my modeled > antenna. The actual antenna uses a 6:1 ratio balun. Is it incorrect > to just change the characteristic impedance of the line from 50 ohms to > 300 ohms to see what effect a 6:1 balun would have on the SWR values? I > was just assuming that the line impedance was only really needed to > calcuate SWR - hopefully I am right. > > Thanks, > Scott, WU2X > Article: 225650 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:06:22 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> In this case there is no quantitative information about the sources of >> energy, the sinks of energy, or the transport of energy. This is not a >> well-bounded system in which the total energy can be easily defined. >> An energy-based solution is going to be hard to achieve. Stick to >> fields and forces for this one. > > But there is quantitative information about the > source of energy for corona. You have to ignore > that information because your corona concepts > require violation of the conservation of energy > principle. Where is the energy coming from to > sustain a current flow of 100 uA/cm^2 under a > clear sky? > > Fields and forces require a supply of energy. If > there is not enough energy available under certain > fairweather conditions to support your esoteric > corona theories, then those theories are wrong. > > Of course a moving airplane can cause corona. The > engine fuel is pumping energy into the system. > > Of course an RF transmitter can cause corona. The > transmitter is pumping energy into the system. > > Under passive clear-sky fairweather conditions, > what is pumping enough energy into the system to > cause your corona? If you were correct, every lightning > rod and antenna in the world would glow at night > under starry skies. When is the last time you > saw a lightning rod glow at night under perfectly > cloudless skies? Cecil, Why do you think there is some magic about 100 uA/cm2? You found something only slightly related on the ESDA web site and now you have accepted that number as a standard. Even if it were correct, how many cm2 are you requiring? The size of a stray wire strand on the end of an antenna is pretty small. Do you suppose there is a fundamental difference between an airplane moving through the air and a stationary plane with wind blowing past it? Does the wind require engine fuel? Your energy arguments are simply irrelevant. Do you understand the meaning of quantitative? Can you quote even one relevant number in terms of watts or joules? Finally, you might want to check your references about your requirement that fields and forces require a supply of energy. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 225651 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: How to model a 6:1 ratio balun using NEC2 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:42:00 -0700 Message-ID: <129lskc2k8f60ca@corp.supernews.com> References: <1150996648.944802.242350@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <129ll1qre3mdr67@corp.supernews.com> <1151001472.521073.320600@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> KC2PIH@gmail.com wrote: > Hi Roy, > > Yeah, I just started a thread a few days ago regarding current vs. > voltage baluns with respect to my OCF Dipole. I started to play with > around with modeling feedline radiation following the notes on Cebik's > page about it. Doesn't seem like its really possible to accurately > predict the SWR/bandwidth when you start trying to model feedline > radiation too. > > Very carefully modeling the very simple OCF Dipole I have assuming no > feedline radiation yields a SWR curve over the HF band that is no-where > near my real world measured values. The NEC2 computed values are much > higher. That's no surprise. Assumptions that the feedline won't radiate and that the balun effects a 6:1 impedance transformation regardless of impedance are both invalid. Garbage in, garbage out. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 225652 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:45:55 -0700 Message-ID: <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Gene Fuller wrote: > . . . > Finally, you might want to check your references about your requirement > that fields and forces require a supply of energy. That's been the downfall of many a perpetual motion proponent. A permanent magnet produces both a field and a force. So it must be a source of energy, right? I see Cecil is at it again. Gad. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 225653 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:15:53 GMT Roy Lewallen wrote: > That's been the downfall of many a perpetual motion proponent. A > permanent magnet produces both a field and a force. So it must be a > source of energy, right? I would assume the *total* amount of energy in the magnet is e=mc^2. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225654 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:17 -0500 Message-ID: <129lvmbplp06vb5@corp.supernews.com> References: "J. D. B." wrote in message news:ec9c2$4499f0eb$d06640f9$2390@FUSE.NET... >I would also add that you must be able to prove that you can trace your >ancestry back to 1776 or earlier in order to hold an Amateur Radio License >as only decedents, of real Americans around at the time of the >Revolutionary War, should be allowed to possess a license. > > Also, that you not be allowed to operate any tube gear. It sucks too much > electricity and is helping to destroy the environment. > > You must build your own equipment. Ban all manufacturers of amateur gear, > unless of course, it is made in America in which case a 200% tariff should > be added to help fund the FCC with all this additional testing that you > would now require. > > All amateur operators must also pass a spelling and grammar test. They > must not be overweight and have perfect hygiene and never smell at any > hamfests - especially Dayton. > > Once you start riding an electric cart at Dayton or any other hamfest, > your Amateur Radio license is immediately revoked. > > There are probably some other items that need to be added to the list of > requirements, but I will submit those to these groups later. > > Since I am of Native American ancestry, the airwaves belong to my people. Therefore all non Native Americans must immediately surrender their license. We will allow you to monitor transmissions as we plan to use the airwaves to advertise our casinos. This is obviously a joke so don't flame me. Article: 225655 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: OT: Outsourcing Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:52 -0500 Message-ID: <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> "notbob" wrote in message news:1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com... > On 2006-06-21, gravity wrote: >> >> this is why we need to add critical analysis to the engineering >> curriculum. > > It matters not. When management lacks the same talent, engineers will > be chosen for economic rather than practical reasons. Outsourcing to > India and H1B visas are proof. The fact that India has yet to produce > a single Intel or Microsoft or H-P or Sony is lost on those whose who > fawn over those rote trained hordes. > > nb India is not a country we rely on to build super companies (for lack of a better term). Take a look at what we send to India. Toxic chemical factories that would be choked to death by special interest groups and politicians. We also outsource technical support, which is a waste of time and money, good thing companies don't pay them much, but it's a cheap way of saying "we have tech support" without truly having it. Look at the shoe mfg. industry, all moved to third world slave labor countries. Good for the shoe industry as they no longer have to deal with unions and we keep management and development in countries that have the talent and resources to maintain state of the art products. Look at how the auto industry has changed. They sent 1000s of jobs overseas to cut down on union labor (with management and R&D in the US), and the Japs are opening plants in the US (with management and R&D in Japan) that will never deal with the UAW. I could go on forever with this post (and talk about NAFTA), but will end my rave at this point. BTW, changed subject header as it didn't seem to fit. I would have trimmed a few NGs but am unsure what groups you are subscribed to. Article: 225656 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:22 -0500 Message-ID: <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> "Slow Code" wrote in message news:FXkmg.15$ii.9@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > "Sal M. Onella" wrote in > news:wh4mg.139$lv.109@fed1read12: > >> >> "Slow Code" wrote in message >> news:cO%lg.8936$lp.2685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>> "Sal M. Onella" wrote in >>> news:YGKlg.104$lv.41@fed1read12: >>> >>> > >>> > "dxAce" wrote in message >>> > news:44969559.30D72920@milestones.com... >>> > >>> >> >>> >> Anybody who can't pass the minimal 5 WPM doesn't deserve a license. >>> > >>> > That's needlessly insulting. >>> >>> >>> No it isn't. >>> >>> Some things in life require you do a little work to enjoy their >>> benefits. You don't want to learn CW, you shouldn't be allowed on ham >>> radio. >>> >>> And Five words per minute ain't a code test. I can fart five words per >>> minute. Anyone that can't learn 5 wpm is either lazy or a tard and >>> should stick to CB, FRS, and cell phones. >> >> I am a gainfully-employed degreed engineer with an above-average IQ >> and dyslexia. You are beneath contempt. > > > Anyone else hear a tiny violin playing? > > > sc No, I see a newsgroup clown that can't accept the fact that this man learned to succeed despite his dyslexia. Instead of offering ideas that could help him learn code you decide to insult him. You sit and whine about how ham radio is going to shit because they allow no code tech licensing and possibly doing away with code altogether. But you missed the biggest point with ham radio it was to help people. Did you help this man by offering alternative options to learn code? No, you insult him instead. It is you and your kind that will be the downfall of ham radio. Blame yourself. Article: 225657 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:34 -0500 Message-ID: <129lvmupd8190c6@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150890810.270718.211170@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449w90d-34354odre-a$f09@miami.fl.news> "Earl the troll pearl" showed his lack of intellect in message news:449w90d-34354odre-a$f09@miami.fl.news... > In article <1150890810.270718.211170@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > "an_old_friend" wrote: >> >>Sal M. Onella wrote: >>> "Slow Code" wrote in message >>> news:cO%lg.8936$lp.2685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>> > "Sal M. Onella" wrote in >>> > news:YGKlg.104$lv.41@fed1read12: >> >>> > And Five words per minute ain't a code test. I can fart five words >>> > per >>> > minute. >> >>but look at what he says HE knows the test is uselesss he all but says >>there >>> >>> I am a gainfully-employed degreed engineer with an above-average IQ >>> and dyslexia. You are beneath contempt. >>of course he is >>> >>> *CLICK* > > > You and Sal M onella should hit it off just fine. With his dyslexia, and > your > mis-spelled words, he's probably the only one here that can clearly read > and understand what you typed. > > Earl Why do you find the need to boost your (lack of) self-confidence by insulting this person by comparing him to Mark? Mark chooses to sit on his ass sucking the entitlement system dry and contributing nothing to society, while this person decided to make the best of his what God gave him and he contributes to the same entitlement system that Mark chooses to deplete. Earl you are not the Pearl of wisdom, you are the faux Pearl that trolls to enhance your (lack of) self-esteem. Something I just thought of at the spur of the moment (not to mention keeps me on topic), some disabled person should sue to remove ALL code requirements, or offer an exclusion to those with disabilities to not have to take ANY code test under the Americans with Disability Act. I'm sure that person could even get a free ACLU lawyer to handle it. Article: 225658 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: David Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Message-ID: References: <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:25:35 GMT On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:52 -0500, "DrDeath" wrote: > >India is not a country we rely on to build super companies (for lack of a >better term). Take a look at what we send to India. Toxic chemical factories >that would be choked to death by special interest groups and politicians. We >also outsource technical support, which is a waste of time and money, good >thing companies don't pay them much, but it's a cheap way of saying "we have >tech support" without truly having it. Look at the shoe mfg. industry, all >moved to third world slave labor countries. Good for the shoe industry as >they no longer have to deal with unions and we keep management and >development in countries that have the talent and resources to maintain >state of the art products. Look at how the auto industry has changed. They >sent 1000s of jobs overseas to cut down on union labor (with management and >R&D in the US), and the Japs are opening plants in the US (with management >and R&D in Japan) that will never deal with the UAW. I could go on forever >with this post (and talk about NAFTA), but will end my rave at this point. >BTW, changed subject header as it didn't seem to fit. I would have trimmed a >few NGs but am unsure what groups you are subscribed to. > > The purpose of business is to keep people busy. Article: 225659 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: <8fEmg.101708$H71.42956@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:48:52 GMT Roy Lewallen wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> Finally, you might want to check your references about your >> requirement that fields and forces require a supply of energy. > > That's been the downfall of many a perpetual motion proponent. A > permanent magnet produces both a field and a force. So it must be a > source of energy, right? Accusing me of saying something I didn't say is standard procedure for you, Roy. Why must you stoop to such behavior? Why not argue the technical issues on the technical merits? My meaning was that a field or a force requires energy for them to exist in the first place. I did NOT say energy could be extracted from fields and forces. Please stop misquoting me. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225660 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: BNC power capacity Message-ID: References: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:00:45 GMT On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:16:57 +0000 (UTC), gene@csl.uiuc.edu (Gene Gardner) wrote: > > >I guess this is a case where one doesn't ask....he just does it! > I have a 20 Meter Hi-Q Halo-type loop (6' dia) hanging from a tree >limb about 40' high. I needed lighter weight so I used RG-58 about >75' long....well-matched at the antenna for very little SWR. > I have been using this with 1 Kw SSB peak for about 10 years with >no problems...this includes reasonably long tune-up with full carrier. So you are dissipating about 4W per foot of cable with key down 1kW CW. Average power of voice with compression is about 13dB lower, or about 200mW per foot. Explains why it has worked ok, doesn't it! If you dig into the numbers, about 25%+ of your transmit power is lost in the line losses, which is a compromise you acceptaed for the lighter weight line you needed. Owen -- Article: 225661 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> <1151010908.770266.158020@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:00:39 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Before you launch into relativity, did you ever figure out what you > were doing wrong with your folded dipole shorts the noise and not the > desired signal theory??? There was absolutely nothing said about signal in that entire thread except when you tried to introduce it as a diversion. The entire thread unfolded as if no signals existed and we were only interested in measuring and dealing with the noise. But now let's allow signals to be introduced into the thread. My dipole was arcing once per second at the coax connector. I couldn't hear any signals. I estimate the signal to noise ratio under those conditions to be zero. Would you disagree? I modified my dipole into a folded dipole. The arcing ceased and I could then hear signals. I estimate the signal to noise ratio was not zero any more. Would you disagree? I really question the IQ of anyone who asserts that eliminating arcing in a system doesn't reduce the noise. I assume you are not a member of MENSA. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225662 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:07:12 -0500 Message-ID: <449b14e2$0$76118$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:ZTCmg.55534$Lm5.1692@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > Roy Lewallen wrote: > > That's been the downfall of many a perpetual motion proponent. A > > permanent magnet produces both a field and a force. So it must be a > > source of energy, right? > > I would assume the *total* amount of energy in the magnet > is e=mc^2. now hold it from the top of W8JI's tower. e=mc^2 + mgh Gravity > -- > 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225663 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:09:36 GMT Roy Lewallen wrote: > I see Cecil is at it again. Gad. It is probably delusions of grandeur for you to expect that uttering the word, "Gad", will have any technical effect on this newsgroup. Hint: The emperor has no clothes. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225664 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:12:37 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > The entire issue is whether the charged dust leads to corona discharge > or whether the charge from the dust finds it way directly through the > receiver front end and into the audio system. Seems that I am in the mainstream here. Here's an interesting related thread from eHam.net: http://www.eham.net/forums/Elmers/83174 -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225665 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:28:45 -0500 Message-ID: <129m6ct3rdtui3a@corp.supernews.com> References: <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> David wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:52 -0500, "DrDeath" > wrote: > > > >>India is not a country we rely on to build super companies (for lack of a >>better term). Take a look at what we send to India. Toxic chemical factories >>that would be choked to death by special interest groups and politicians. We >>also outsource technical support, which is a waste of time and money, good >>thing companies don't pay them much, but it's a cheap way of saying "we have >>tech support" without truly having it. Look at the shoe mfg. industry, all >>moved to third world slave labor countries. Good for the shoe industry as >>they no longer have to deal with unions and we keep management and >>development in countries that have the talent and resources to maintain >>state of the art products. Look at how the auto industry has changed. They >>sent 1000s of jobs overseas to cut down on union labor (with management and >>R&D in the US), and the Japs are opening plants in the US (with management >>and R&D in Japan) that will never deal with the UAW. I could go on forever >>with this post (and talk about NAFTA), but will end my rave at this point. >>BTW, changed subject header as it didn't seem to fit. I would have trimmed a >>few NGs but am unsure what groups you are subscribed to. >> >> > > The purpose of business is to keep people busy. > The purpose of business is to make money for it's owners. Everything else is charity. This aught to cause a flame war. :^) Article: 225666 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:14:14 GMT Dee Flint wrote: > Well I described a number of alternatives to learning and he persists in > saying he cannot learn code. ... The fact that > he can speak and understand the spoken word means he can learn code at the > basic level of 5wpm. A completely deaf person can speak and read lips but he/she still cannot even hear Morse code. What you need to understand is that something that seems normal to you is missing in some people. If an amateur radio license required dunking a basket- ball, could you do it? As one who can dunk a basketball, I can tell you all you need is enough will and effort and you can do it. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225667 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:22:57 -0500 Message-ID: <129m9ijcnshm47f@corp.supernews.com> References: <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> "David" wrote in message news:hl2m92p1ggaq8041erjbk7rm4ekg1mu07i@4ax.com... > On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:52 -0500, "DrDeath" > wrote: > > >> >>India is not a country we rely on to build super companies (for lack of a >>better term). Take a look at what we send to India. Toxic chemical >>factories >>that would be choked to death by special interest groups and politicians. >>We >>also outsource technical support, which is a waste of time and money, good >>thing companies don't pay them much, but it's a cheap way of saying "we >>have >>tech support" without truly having it. Look at the shoe mfg. industry, all >>moved to third world slave labor countries. Good for the shoe industry as >>they no longer have to deal with unions and we keep management and >>development in countries that have the talent and resources to maintain >>state of the art products. Look at how the auto industry has changed. They >>sent 1000s of jobs overseas to cut down on union labor (with management >>and >>R&D in the US), and the Japs are opening plants in the US (with management >>and R&D in Japan) that will never deal with the UAW. I could go on forever >>with this post (and talk about NAFTA), but will end my rave at this point. >>BTW, changed subject header as it didn't seem to fit. I would have trimmed >>a >>few NGs but am unsure what groups you are subscribed to. >> >> > The purpose of business is to keep people busy. > No, It is to make money. Article: 225668 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:30:29 -0500 Message-ID: <129ma0n51o0kva6@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150890810.270718.211170@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449w90d-34354odre-a$f09@miami.fl.news> <129lvmupd8190c6@corp.supernews.com> "Dave" wrote in message news:RaKdnd7qlvY1iwbZnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@comcast.com... > DrDeath wrote: > > SNIPPED >> >> Something I just thought of at the spur of the moment (not to mention >> keeps me on topic), some disabled person should sue to remove ALL code >> requirements, or offer an exclusion to those with disabilities to not >> have to take ANY code test under the Americans with Disability Act. I'm >> sure that person could even get a free ACLU lawyer to handle it. > > Many years ago, 1950s, there was a very active 10 meter ham in Danvers, > Massachusetts, during the period of Class A, B and C licenses. He was an > arthritic quadriplegic. He was wheel chair bound, lived alone, and > required visiting help to get into and out of bed and have his meals > prepared and served. > > He had a Class C [Conditional] license. He learned to copy 'read' CW in > his head although he did not have the ability to send. I don't think he > would consider a lawsuit appropriate. > > Some of the OTs on this list may have worked him. W1JFS, Les MacCrakin. > God Rest His Soul. > > /s/ DD, W1MCE > He may not, but others that may be dyslexic, deaf, or other handicapped person may deem a lawsuit appropriate. Article: 225669 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:37:34 -0500 Message-ID: <129mae0tfsbij90@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> "Dee Flint" wrote in message news:bJSdnRBXL9F9gwbZnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@comcast.com... > > "DrDeath" wrote in message > news:129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com... >> "Slow Code" wrote in message >> news:FXkmg.15$ii.9@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>> "Sal M. Onella" wrote in >>> news:wh4mg.139$lv.109@fed1read12: >>> >>>> >>>> "Slow Code" wrote in message >>>> news:cO%lg.8936$lp.2685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>>>> "Sal M. Onella" wrote in >>>>> news:YGKlg.104$lv.41@fed1read12: >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > "dxAce" wrote in message >>>>> > news:44969559.30D72920@milestones.com... >>>>> > >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Anybody who can't pass the minimal 5 WPM doesn't deserve a license. >>>>> > >>>>> > That's needlessly insulting. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No it isn't. >>>>> >>>>> Some things in life require you do a little work to enjoy their >>>>> benefits. You don't want to learn CW, you shouldn't be allowed on ham >>>>> radio. >>>>> >>>>> And Five words per minute ain't a code test. I can fart five words >>>>> per >>>>> minute. Anyone that can't learn 5 wpm is either lazy or a tard and >>>>> should stick to CB, FRS, and cell phones. >>>> >>>> I am a gainfully-employed degreed engineer with an above-average IQ >>>> and dyslexia. You are beneath contempt. >>> >>> >>> Anyone else hear a tiny violin playing? >>> >>> >>> sc >> >> No, I see a newsgroup clown that can't accept the fact that this man >> learned to succeed despite his dyslexia. Instead of offering ideas that >> could help him learn code you decide to insult him. You sit and whine >> about how ham radio is going to shit because they allow no code tech >> licensing and possibly doing away with code altogether. But you missed >> the biggest point with ham radio it was to help people. Did you help this >> man by offering alternative options to learn code? No, you insult him >> instead. It is you and your kind that will be the downfall of ham radio. >> Blame yourself. > > Well I described a number of alternatives to learning and he persists in > saying he cannot learn code. Now I have not insulted him that I know of > (although it's difficult to predict what one might take as an insult). > However, if someone truly is incapable of learning code, then they are > unable to learn to understand the spoken word and to speak. The fact that > he can speak and understand the spoken word means he can learn code at the > basic level of 5wpm. He is his own biggest enemy. > > Dee Flint, N8UZE > I was unaware of your offers of alternative measures as it wasn't in this thread. I agree, if he has alternatives at his disposal, it's on him to take advantage of them. Article: 225670 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:51:10 -0500 Message-ID: <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:avFmg.48993$fb2.13033@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > Dee Flint wrote: >> Well I described a number of alternatives to learning and he persists in >> saying he cannot learn code. ... The fact that >> he can speak and understand the spoken word means he can learn code at >> the basic level of 5wpm. > > A completely deaf person can speak and read lips but he/she > still cannot even hear Morse code. What you need to understand > is that something that seems normal to you is missing in some > people. If an amateur radio license required dunking a basket- > ball, could you do it? As one who can dunk a basketball, I can > tell you all you need is enough will and effort and you can do it. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp With deaf people use can use a light or a subwoofer for them to copy code. I don't want to stereotype deaf people, but I have found many of them to be hooked on entitlements and expect unreasonable accommodations. I have a relative that refuses to wear a hearing aid, and then gets angry when there are communication problems. This person is physically able to work; yet sits around on my tax dollars playing the feel sorry for me card. Article: 225671 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:25:47 -0500 Message-ID: <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Dee Flint wrote: > >> Well I described a number of alternatives to learning and he persists >> in saying he cannot learn code. ... The fact that >> he can speak and understand the spoken word means he can learn code at >> the basic level of 5wpm. > > > A completely deaf person can speak and read lips but he/she > still cannot even hear Morse code. What you need to understand > is that something that seems normal to you is missing in some > people. If an amateur radio license required dunking a basket- > ball, could you do it? As one who can dunk a basketball, I can > tell you all you need is enough will and effort and you can do it. Deaf persons have succussfully completed the code portion of the testing at all levels of speed. Some use a vibrator attached to their wrist. Others us a light. As mentioned elsewhere "never say never". Dave WD9BDZ Article: 225672 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:25:17 GMT DrDeath wrote: > I have found many of them to be > hooked on entitlements and expect unreasonable accommodations. Well then, why not just declare deafness to be a capital crime in order to solve your personal problem with deaf people? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225673 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:55:10 -0500 Message-ID: <129mevft6beh160@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:NxGmg.55613$Lm5.14001@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > DrDeath wrote: >> I have found many of them to be hooked on entitlements and expect >> unreasonable accommodations. > > Well then, why not just declare deafness to be a > capital crime in order to solve your personal > problem with deaf people? > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp I do not have a personal problem with deaf people. If you would leave my post intact maybe you and others would comprehend that. You just want to turn what was an on topic post into a flame war. You are not worth the time and effort. Article: 225674 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:08:08 GMT David G. Nagel wrote: > Deaf persons have succussfully completed the code portion of the testing > at all levels of speed. Some use a vibrator attached to their wrist. > Others us a light. As mentioned elsewhere "never say never". But that certainly doesn't satisfy the letter of the regulations. To do that, they must "copy by ear". -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225675 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622210907.921$Dw@newsreader.com> References: <129lvmbplp06vb5@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 01:09:06 GMT "DrDeath" wrote: >> Since I am of Native American ancestry, the airwaves belong to my >> people. > Therefore all non Native Americans must immediately surrender their > license. We will allow you to monitor transmissions as we plan to use the > airwaves to advertise our casinos. > > This is obviously a joke so don't flame me. > No fire waters right after the pow-wow, k? (you fuckers act crazy) :P Article: 225676 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 01:21:07 GMT "DrDeath" wrote: >> With deaf people use can use a light or a subwoofer for them to copy > code. > Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, and mark morgan can't get it done? (they're not deaf, just brain dead hud dwelling sissy's) CW is for old people anyway aint it? :) Article: 225677 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> <1151010908.770266.158020@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1151022905.047059.104540@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:28:23 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> But now let's allow signals to be introduced into the thread. >> My dipole was arcing once per second at the coax connector. >> I couldn't hear any signals. I estimate the signal to noise >> ratio under those conditions to be zero. Would you disagree? > > So now you are saying you were talking about arcs in connectors? I have been very careful from the very beginning of this thread to specify that the problem I was trying to solve was arcing at the coax connector. You said a folded dipole cannot solve that problem. You were wrong. > You SPECIFICALLY proposed the noise came from millions of dust > particles hitting the antenna each second. RF noise generated directly > by charged particles hitting the antenna. No arcs, no corona according > to YOU. Not me! Sorry, I even said the arcing scorched my carpet when the coax connector was disconnected. Anyone who wants to check the history of this thread can verify that. Your assertion that a folded dipole wouldn't change the noise level was 100% false. > Nice tactic. Attack the other guy while totally changing what you > originally claimed. If you can prove that I changed what I originally claimed, I will write you a check for $1000. From the very beginning of this argument, my problem was arcing. You asserted that eliminating arcing didn't change the noise level. You were wrong. Anyone who wants to can go back and verify those facts can do so. > Of course anyone can read back and see you were the one who claimed the > noise was from particles hitting the antenna. Yes, it was, and it caused arcing which I needed to eliminate. The folded dipole eliminated the problem contrary to what you asserted. > ... and that grounding the antenna doesn't reduce that problem. Grounding the antenna eliminated the arcing which was my problem. Sorry about that, Tom, but your ignorance has been exposed. Seems you need a tutorial on how a DC arc can convert energy to RF noise. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225678 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of slow code..who would give a fuck? From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622213117.873$9G_-_@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 01:31:16 GMT "DrDeath" wrote: >> No, I see a newsgroup clown > Me too. Slow code and his half dozen sock puppets comes to mind when I think of a newsgroup assclown. (slow code generally nym shifts and posts gay shit below here(stand by) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Article: 225679 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:31:06 GMT Steveo wrote: > Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, and mark > morgan can't get it done? Can you dunk a basketball? If not, get back to us when you can. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225680 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 01:38:09 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Steveo wrote: > > Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, and > > mark morgan can't get it done? > > Can you dunk a basketball? If not, get back to us when you can. > I didn't know that was the hitch..can you still dunk? Article: 225681 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622214335.020$uF@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150890810.270718.211170@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449w90d-34354odre-a$f09@miami.fl.news> <129lvmupd8190c6@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 01:43:33 GMT "DrDeath" wrote: -snipper- > Mark chooses to sit on > his ass sucking the entitlement system dry and contributing nothing to > society, while this person decided to make the best of his what God gave > him and he contributes to the same entitlement system that Mark chooses > to deplete. > Testify! That asswipe is too dumb to come in out of the rain. He's best left ignored. Article: 225682 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:50:28 GMT Steveo wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Can you dunk a basketball? If not, get back to us when you can. >> > I didn't know that was the hitch..can you still dunk? If I don my knee braces, I still can. Can you? The point is that some things are possible for each individual and other things are impossible. Anybody who can't dunk a basketball or pass a MENSA exam should know how a person feels when they can't learn Morse code. I personally think it would improve the ARS to only allow MENSA engineers to be a member. How does that make you feel? One of the brightest engineers I know, who has a commercial FCC license and was the engineer at an AM broadcast station, couldn't get past 5wpm so he was condemned to Tech class for 30 years. He knows more about radio than any ten other hams. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225683 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> <1151010908.770266.158020@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1151022905.047059.104540@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 01:59:18 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> But now let's allow signals to be introduced into the thread. >> My dipole was arcing once per second at the coax connector. >> I couldn't hear any signals. I estimate the signal to noise >> ratio under those conditions to be zero. Would you disagree? > > So now you are saying you were talking about arcs in connectors? > Talk about diversions! Just to prove that you are fibbing, Tom, here is my posting >from two weeks ago in answer to one of your postings: ********************************************************************* w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Try this test, wire a small 2.5 MHh RF choke across your antenna and > check the before and after noise levels. They will not change. That's exactly how I eliminated the noise and arcing on my first bare-wire G5RV installed in Arizona. ********************************************************************* How does it feel to be caught in a bold-faced lie? -- 73, Cecil, W5DXP Article: 225684 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1151027770.726567.104680@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <2YHmg.71598$4L1.65499@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:01:34 GMT an_old_friend wrote: > Cecil as good as it is your analogy still fails thanks to the fact that > if I can drunk (and I have no idea wether I can or not) it only means > something In Basketball. now if one inabilty to duck a basketball > barred them from all sports then you rise closer to the level of what > the code test is in the ARS What you don't seem to realize is that dunking a basketball and knowing Morse code are equally useful in the ARS. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225685 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <20060622215740.506$G5@newsreader.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:06:01 GMT Steveo wrote: > How tall are you? 6' 4" > Where do you find those braces? Here's a cheap version: http://www.jointhealing.com/pages/productpages/edge.html -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225686 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:10:38 GMT Dee Flint wrote: > Not a correct analogy. For starters, completely deaf people have learned > the Morse code. Flashing lights and pulse pads have served their needs. > Just as they have learned to speak and read lips, they can learn alternative > methods of using code. But the letter of the law says they must receive Morse code *by ear*. Anything else is a violation of that law. It's like qualifying to be a life guard by doing a broad jump. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225687 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:17:51 GMT Dee Flint wrote: > True enough but that accommodation has been accepted for a very long time. > The regulations also said that they must be by hand. A sending test hasn't > been used in decades except as an accommodation for people with hearing > problems, etc. The FCC itself had stopped administering a sending test > before they turned the testing over to the amateur community. You have just admitted that the Morse code test has been irreversibly compromised already. A deaf person holding an HF ham license cannot hear an SOS so the entire purpose of forcing him to learn Morse code is bogus. He is going to be using a digital mode, not sitting there with his hand on the speaker waiting to feel an SOS from a sinking ship that doesn't even have CW capability anymore. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225688 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> Message-ID: <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:25:01 GMT Dee Flint wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message >> One of the brightest engineers I know, who has a commercial >> FCC license and was the engineer at an AM broadcast station, >> couldn't get past 5wpm so he was condemned to Tech class for >> 30 years. He knows more about radio than any ten other hams. >> -- > I do not believe the couldn't. I've listed the failure reasons in another > post. Believe me, this guy shed tears when he couldn't get past 10 wpm. He has a physical mental tick every few seconds, akin to epilepsy, that causes him to lose time. He cannot speak one minute of continuous speech much less receive one minute of continuous Morse code. When he speaks, some of the time is silence while his brain is out to lunch. But when he does speak it is worth ten times the average person's utterances. He is an engineering genius. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225689 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:49:37 -0500 Message-ID: <129mlm3nr8l38cf@corp.supernews.com> References: <129lvmbplp06vb5@corp.supernews.com> <20060622210907.921$Dw@newsreader.com> "Steveo" wrote in message news:20060622210907.921$Dw@newsreader.com... > "DrDeath" wrote: >>> Since I am of Native American ancestry, the airwaves belong to my >>> people. >> Therefore all non Native Americans must immediately surrender their >> license. We will allow you to monitor transmissions as we plan to use the >> airwaves to advertise our casinos. >> >> This is obviously a joke so don't flame me. >> > No fire waters right after the pow-wow, k? (you fuckers act crazy) :P How bout we smokem piece pipe? Article: 225690 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:51:57 -0500 Message-ID: <129mlqhjcau6b44@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> "Steveo" wrote in message news:20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com... > "DrDeath" wrote: >>> With deaf people use can use a light or a subwoofer for them to copy >> code. >> > Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, and > mark > morgan can't get it done? (they're not deaf, just brain dead hud dwelling > sissy's) > > CW is for old people anyway aint it? :) LOL, I sure have no interest in CW. I must still be young :-P Article: 225691 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:55:08 -0500 Message-ID: <129mm0eifbr8of3@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> "Steveo" wrote in message news:20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com... > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Steveo wrote: >> > Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, and >> > mark morgan can't get it done? >> >> Can you dunk a basketball? If not, get back to us when you can. >> > I didn't know that was the hitch..can you still dunk? That's what they are replacing the CW test with, the slam dunk. Now all those hams with their Hover Rounds will have to give up their tickets. Article: 225692 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622230426.975$UV@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <129mm0eifbr8of3@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:04:25 GMT "DrDeath" wrote: > "Steveo" wrote in message > news:20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com... > > Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Steveo wrote: > >> > Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, > >> > and mark morgan can't get it done? > >> > >> Can you dunk a basketball? If not, get back to us when you can. > >> > > I didn't know that was the hitch..can you still dunk? > > That's what they are replacing the CW test with, the slam dunk. Now all > those hams with their Hover Rounds will have to give up their tickets. > They will not give up their biscuits and squirrl gravy 'till it kills em. Article: 225693 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622230656.604$1M@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <129mlqhjcau6b44@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:06:54 GMT "DrDeath" wrote: > "Steveo" wrote in message > news:20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com... > > "DrDeath" wrote: > >>> With deaf people use can use a light or a subwoofer for them to copy > >> code. > >> > > Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, and > > mark > > morgan can't get it done? (they're not deaf, just brain dead hud > > dwelling sissy's) > > > > CW is for old people anyway aint it? :) > > LOL, I sure have no interest in CW. I must still be young :-P > Rock on you spring chicken. hehe Article: 225694 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Email this to President Bush, let's make the FCC do the right thing. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622231031.777$8q@newsreader.com> References: <129lvmbplp06vb5@corp.supernews.com> <20060622210907.921$Dw@newsreader.com> <129mlm3nr8l38cf@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:10:29 GMT "DrDeath" wrote: > "Steveo" wrote in message > news:20060622210907.921$Dw@newsreader.com... > > "DrDeath" wrote: > >>> Since I am of Native American ancestry, the airwaves belong to my > >>> people. > >> Therefore all non Native Americans must immediately surrender their > >> license. We will allow you to monitor transmissions as we plan to use > >> the airwaves to advertise our casinos. > >> > >> This is obviously a joke so don't flame me. > >> > > No fire waters right after the pow-wow, k? (you fuckers act crazy) :P > > How bout we smokem piece pipe? > Cough..yes'm lol Article: 225695 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:10:30 -0500 Message-ID: <129mmt8g13b1sdf@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150890810.270718.211170@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449w90d-34354odre-a$f09@miami.fl.news> <129lvmupd8190c6@corp.supernews.com> <20060622214335.020$uF@newsreader.com> "Steveo" wrote in message news:20060622214335.020$uF@newsreader.com... > "DrDeath" wrote: > -snipper- >> Mark chooses to sit on >> his ass sucking the entitlement system dry and contributing nothing to >> society, while this person decided to make the best of his what God gave >> him and he contributes to the same entitlement system that Mark chooses >> to deplete. >> > Testify! That asswipe is too dumb to come in out of the rain. He's best > left ignored. I think most of the RRCB regulars have pretty much ignored him as of late. It's his pathetic RRAP buddies that followed him here that keep him fueled Article: 225696 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622231401.399$I5@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:13:59 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > He cannot speak > one minute of continuous speech much less receive one minute > of continuous Morse code. > Don't let him be the drummer. (unless you're good at two stepping in time in the marching band) Article: 225697 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:19:09 -0500 Message-ID: <129mndf3jba40f0@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > David G. Nagel wrote: > >> Deaf persons have succussfully completed the code portion of the >> testing at all levels of speed. Some use a vibrator attached to their >> wrist. Others us a light. As mentioned elsewhere "never say never". > > > But that certainly doesn't satisfy the letter of the regulations. > To do that, they must "copy by ear". No, it does satisfy the alternative methods of copying code as specified by the FCC. Dave WD9BDZ Article: 225698 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: james Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Message-ID: References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> <129m6ct3rdtui3a@corp.supernews.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 03:19:10 GMT On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:28:45 -0500, "David G. Nagel" wrote: >+++> The purpose of business is to keep people busy. >+++> >+++The purpose of business is to make money for it's owners. Everything >+++else is charity. >+++ >+++This aught to cause a flame war. :^) ***** You are quite correct. Unfortunately some owners seem to never have enough money. james Article: 225699 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622232054.024$C4@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150890810.270718.211170@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449w90d-34354odre-a$f09@miami.fl.news> <129lvmupd8190c6@corp.supernews.com> <20060622214335.020$uF@newsreader.com> <129mmt8g13b1sdf@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:20:52 GMT "DrDeath" wrote: > "Steveo" wrote in message > news:20060622214335.020$uF@newsreader.com... > > "DrDeath" wrote: > > -snipper- > >> Mark chooses to sit on > >> his ass sucking the entitlement system dry and contributing nothing to > >> society, while this person decided to make the best of his what God > >> gave him and he contributes to the same entitlement system that Mark > >> chooses to deplete. > >> > > Testify! That asswipe is too dumb to come in out of the rain. He's best > > left ignored. > > I think most of the RRCB regulars have pretty much ignored him as of > late. It's his pathetic RRAP buddies that followed him here that keep him > fueled > Yea, I stated a thread about that titled ham operators...why must they ruin RRCB? Eric Oyen was the only ht ham to tell me how wrong I was. Oh well. (sock puppet hams generally post gay shit below here. ------------------------------------------------------------ Article: 225700 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622233345.995$sL@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:33:43 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > He is going to > be using a digital mode, not sitting there with his hand > on the speaker waiting to feel an SOS > You should preface this with 'spoiler' next time. You ruined Titanic for me. Article: 225701 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622234035.742$gb@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:40:33 GMT "Dee Flint" wrote: >> I do not believe the couldn't. I've listed the failure reasons in > another post. > > Dee Flint, N8UZE > What's the gist of it, Dee? Article: 225702 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: How to model a 6:1 ratio balun using NEC2 Message-ID: References: <1150996648.944802.242350@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 03:48:45 GMT I have rebuilt a W2AU balun for much the same reasons. Like the referenced article, I removed the dual use of the electrical connection for support of the dipole wires. An addition, I changed the coax connector for an N-type for a water resistant cable connection. Having said that, I don't use it much, it is a "voltage balun" and most of my applications are better suited to a "current balun". Owen -- Article: 225703 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622234507.550$Lr@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <20060622215740.506$G5@newsreader.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:45:05 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Steveo wrote: > > How tall are you? > > 6' 4" > You got me there, was 6' but gravity has made it less. :) > > > Where do you find those braces? > > Here's a cheap version: > http://www.jointhealing.com/pages/productpages/edge.html > Thanks. Article: 225704 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622234902.369$9T@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:49:00 GMT "Dee Flint" wrote: >> The 5wpm level is more equivalent to dunking a basketball in a basket > that is just above head height rather than regulation professional > height. Under those conditions, anyone can dunk a basketball. > Who the hell came up with that for an analogy? Article: 225705 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. From: Steveo Message-ID: <20060622235403.094$c7@newsreader.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:54:00 GMT "Dee Flint" wrote: > He is his own biggest enemy. > > Dee Flint, N8UZE > He's our tax dollars at work. From bob Fri Jun 23 20:33:05 EDT 2006 Article: 225706 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Reply-To: "Bob" From: Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.cb References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <1151028799.758807.72020@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:15:21 -0500 Organization: bob X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Lines: 11 Message-ID: <449b5d82$0$9894$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jun 2006 03:18:27 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@teranews.com Path: news.unc.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!news.glorb.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!statler.nntpserver.com!be5.nntpserver.com!not-for-mail Xref: news0.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:225706 rec.radio.amateur.misc:274637 rec.radio.amateur.policy:259539 rec.radio.cb:345631 Why not get rid of the code? Really, why not make the written exam easier? Just make exams covers enough to make sure some idiot doesn't kill themselves or some body else. Have only one class of license called "Amateur Radio License", with full access to all bands. No matter what class a person holds now it would be renewed as only "Amateur Radio License". Novices would be grandfathered in.You couldn't get any worse class of ham than we do with the 20wpm wonders. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 225707 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:19:24 -0700 "Dee Flint" wrote in message news:bJSdnRBXL9F9gwbZnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@comcast.com... > > "DrDeath" wrote in message > news:129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com... > > "Slow Code" wrote in message > > news:FXkmg.15$ii.9@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > >> "Sal M. Onella" wrote in > >> news:wh4mg.139$lv.109@fed1read12: > >> > >>> > >>> "Slow Code" wrote in message > >>> news:cO%lg.8936$lp.2685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > >>>> "Sal M. Onella" wrote in > >>>> news:YGKlg.104$lv.41@fed1read12: > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > "dxAce" wrote in message > >>>> > news:44969559.30D72920@milestones.com... > >>>> > > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Anybody who can't pass the minimal 5 WPM doesn't deserve a license. > >>>> > > >>>> > That's needlessly insulting. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> No it isn't. > >>>> > >>>> Some things in life require you do a little work to enjoy their > >>>> benefits. You don't want to learn CW, you shouldn't be allowed on ham > >>>> radio. > >>>> > >>>> And Five words per minute ain't a code test. I can fart five words per > >>>> minute. Anyone that can't learn 5 wpm is either lazy or a tard and > >>>> should stick to CB, FRS, and cell phones. > >>> > >>> I am a gainfully-employed degreed engineer with an above-average IQ > >>> and dyslexia. You are beneath contempt. > >> > >> > >> Anyone else hear a tiny violin playing? > >> > >> > >> sc > > > > No, I see a newsgroup clown that can't accept the fact that this man > > learned to succeed despite his dyslexia. Instead of offering ideas that > > could help him learn code you decide to insult him. You sit and whine > > about how ham radio is going to shit because they allow no code tech > > licensing and possibly doing away with code altogether. But you missed the > > biggest point with ham radio it was to help people. Did you help this man > > by offering alternative options to learn code? No, you insult him instead. > > It is you and your kind that will be the downfall of ham radio. Blame > > yourself. > > Well I described a number of alternatives to learning and he persists in > saying he cannot learn code. Now I have not insulted him that I know of > (although it's difficult to predict what one might take as an insult). > However, if someone truly is incapable of learning code, then they are > unable to learn to understand the spoken word and to speak. The fact that > he can speak and understand the spoken word means he can learn code at the > basic level of 5wpm. He is his own biggest enemy. > > Dee Flint, N8UZE > > I don't think you insulted me -- it was whoever said I don't deserve a license. However, I do think it's a bit of a stretch to say that I can learn code just because I can speak and understand words. You should see what my raw typing looks like before I go back and fix it prior to hitting send (or should I say "sned," which was what I typed the first time -- typically four or five of those per line.) It's pretty bad. I'm thinking of trying to learn the dits and dahs as strings of written dots and dashes on paper. According to everything I've been told or exposed to, that is not recommended. All the training says the goal is to perceive each letter as a consolidated unit of sounds without any intermediate translation steps. Well, since I'm positive that isn't working, particularly for characters of four or more elements ... maybe a graphical alternative is in order. Article: 225708 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: David Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <09adneMXu5xgVQbZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:17:11 GMT Recently I can across a "music" track that is about 5 minutes long that teaches Morse by the sound of the characters. If you would find this helpful I may be able to get a copy of it and place it on an ftp server for you. Regards David Dee Flint wrote: > "Sal M. Onella" wrote in message > news:wRKmg.447$RD.95@fed1read08... >> "Dee Flint" wrote in message >> news:bJSdnRBXL9F9gwbZnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@comcast.com... > > [snip] > >>> Well I described a number of alternatives to learning and he persists in >>> saying he cannot learn code. Now I have not insulted him that I know of >>> (although it's difficult to predict what one might take as an insult). >>> However, if someone truly is incapable of learning code, then they are >>> unable to learn to understand the spoken word and to speak. The fact >>> that >>> he can speak and understand the spoken word means he can learn code at >>> the >>> basic level of 5wpm. He is his own biggest enemy. >>> >>> Dee Flint, N8UZE >>> >>> >> I don't think you insulted me -- it was whoever said I don't deserve a >> license. >> >> However, I do think it's a bit of a stretch to say that I can learn code >> just because I can speak and understand words. You should see what my raw >> typing looks like before I go back and fix it prior to hitting send (or >> should I say "sned," which was what I typed the first time -- typically >> four >> or five of those per line.) It's pretty bad. >> >> I'm thinking of trying to learn the dits and dahs as strings of written >> dots >> and dashes on paper. According to everything I've been told or exposed >> to, >> that is not recommended. All the training says the goal is to perceive >> each >> letter as a consolidated unit of sounds without any intermediate >> translation >> steps. Well, since I'm positive that isn't working, particularly for >> characters of four or more elements ... maybe a graphical alternative is >> in >> order. >> > > Typing and reading are visually based. So it makes sense that those are a > problem. But do you have difficulty saying words or hearing them? Just > because the typing is a problem, doesn't mean that the aural/spoken is a > problem. Reading/writing is a different activity than hearing/speaking and > uses different parts of the brain. While I can't imagine a graphical method > working for a dyslexic since it's visual, who can say for sure. > > By the way, I still have problems with longer characters now and then or > combinations of certain characters. I had an awful time trying to copy a > call sign in a contest that began with SH5 (3 dots, 4 dots, 5 dots). > > Dee Flint, N8UZE > > Article: 225709 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: james Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Message-ID: <3ukn92hpuksuhisq3nv4s5t5ojv65mrg3v@4ax.com> References: <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:49:19 GMT On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:52 -0500, "DrDeath" wrote: >+++"notbob" wrote in message >+++news:1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com... >+++> On 2006-06-21, gravity wrote: >+++>> >+++>> this is why we need to add critical analysis to the engineering >+++>> curriculum. >+++> >+++> It matters not. When management lacks the same talent, engineers will >+++> be chosen for economic rather than practical reasons. Outsourcing to >+++> India and H1B visas are proof. The fact that India has yet to produce >+++> a single Intel or Microsoft or H-P or Sony is lost on those whose who >+++> fawn over those rote trained hordes. >+++> >+++> nb >+++ >+++India is not a country we rely on to build super companies (for lack of a >+++better term). Take a look at what we send to India. Toxic chemical factories >+++that would be choked to death by special interest groups and politicians. We >+++also outsource technical support, which is a waste of time and money, good >+++thing companies don't pay them much, but it's a cheap way of saying "we have >+++tech support" without truly having it. Look at the shoe mfg. industry, all >+++moved to third world slave labor countries. Good for the shoe industry as >+++they no longer have to deal with unions and we keep management and >+++development in countries that have the talent and resources to maintain >+++state of the art products. Look at how the auto industry has changed. They >+++sent 1000s of jobs overseas to cut down on union labor (with management and >+++R&D in the US), and the Japs are opening plants in the US (with management >+++and R&D in Japan) that will never deal with the UAW. I could go on forever >+++with this post (and talk about NAFTA), but will end my rave at this point. >+++BTW, changed subject header as it didn't seem to fit. I would have trimmed a >+++few NGs but am unsure what groups you are subscribed to. >+++ ***************** Outsourcing started way back in the 70's. It has only been in the last decade that anyone in the media and public paid any attention to it. When layoffs became common place after the dotcom bust then the public finally realized that the barn door was open and nearly half the cows are gone. A bit to late. james Article: 225710 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:51:13 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4ecmg.101400$H71.89899@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Tom Donaly wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: >> Tom Donaly wrote: >> >>> gravity wrote: >>> >>>> "Tom Donaly" wrote in message >>>> news:LyFlg.69551$4L1.2176@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... >>>> >>>>> Dave wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jim Kelley wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom Donaly wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 73, ac6xg >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments, >>>>>> every time >>>>>> I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob. >>>>>> >>>>>> The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a >>>>>> healthy capacitor as a simulator. >>>>>> >>>>>> Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> real! >>>> >>>>>> Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at >>>>>> the >>>>>> air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or >>>>>> Nitrogen >>>>>> atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ... >>>>>> how did >>>>>> the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows? >>>>>> >>>>>> But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the >>>>>> cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added >>>>>> an ESD >>>>>> bleed into my antenna switches. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far >>>>> as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil, >>>>> although he thinks he does. >>>>> 73, >>>>> Tom Donaly, KA6RUH >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> i thought it came from distant thunderstorms? >>>> >>>> and if wind blows an ELF system around, it does get noisier. i believe >>>> that's due to physical movement of the antenna system. >>>> >>>> Gravity >>>> >>>> >>> >>> You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who >>> are afraid to experiment. >> >> >> >> Just as a point of info Tom. Do you perform experiments to prove >> or disprove matters to your satisfaction on everything before >> accepting it? That takes a very special person to be ultimately >> skeptical. >> >> Your posts would indicate that... or maybe that you just enjoy >> busting on Cecil. 8^) >> >> - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - > > Actually, when it comes to some of the issues raised on this newsgroup, > yes, I do. I don't see why I should believe what Cecil makes up in his > head just because he makes it up in his head. Okay, Tom. I'll accept that you have personal experimental results for your statements. Not many do. I'm not sure that anyone here believes Cecil just because he is Cecil. I don't. Some times I see him posting his way into some very deep holes... > > "I can't believe _that_!" said Alice. > "Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a > long breath, and shut your eyes." > Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one can't believe > impossible things." > "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I > was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes > I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There > goes the shawl again!" > > Cecil and the White Queen would get along well together. > 73, > Tom Donaly, KA6RUH I am corrected. You both determine everything experimentally and enjoy busting on Cecil. I assumed an "And" situation, while it was actually an "OR" situation.. 8^) - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 225711 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:08:49 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Then the argument boils down to whether the noise level threshold > is *exactly* equal to the corona threshold. That means there is zero > noise until 100 uA/cm^2 starts to flow through the air accompaning > the corona. Can you appreciate how ridiculous such an argument > really is? Well, suppose you have a #18 ga stranded wire composed of 7 strands of #26. One strand is sticking up all by itself. The end of the strand (if cut off squarely) is about 0.0013 cm^2. So a current flow of 0.13 uA from the end of this strand is 100 uA/cm^2. And, the situation is exacerbated by wire with smaller strands and with strands more pointed than by being squarely cut off. John Article: 225712 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: David Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Message-ID: References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> <129m9ijcnshm47f@corp.supernews.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:06:49 GMT On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:22:57 -0500, "DrDeath" wrote: > >> The purpose of business is to keep people busy. >> >No, It is to make money. > > Then it would be called moneyness. Those gated communities won't protect you from the thundering hordes of hungry people. Article: 225713 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:55:36 GMT John - KD5YI wrote: > Well, suppose you have a #18 ga stranded wire composed of 7 strands of > #26. One strand is sticking up all by itself. The end of the strand (if > cut off squarely) is about 0.0013 cm^2. So a current flow of 0.13 uA > from the end of this strand is 100 uA/cm^2. We can suppose all sorts of conditions to obtain corona. There's absolutely no argument about that. The argument is whether corona occurs 100% of the time on any and all antennas with charged particle static. If corona occurs only 99.9% of the time, the corona gang loses the argument. The argument is whether corona *always* accompanies charged particle noise. That's an exclusive assertion that there exists no cases where corona doesn't accompany charged particle noise. I fully agree that corona *often* accompanies charged particle noise but that's an inclusive assertion. If enough particles hit the antenna to just barely hear the noise on a receiver, the corona crowd says that corona caused the noise. I would like to see some proof for such a statement so far out of mainstream physics. Can we suppose a condition where corona won't happen? How about a #14 solid wire with rounded ends? Do you think it could build up enough charged particle noise to be heard in a receiver without the existence of corona? -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225714 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> <1151010908.770266.158020@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1151022905.047059.104540@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1151032496.655092.149520@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1LRmg.122463$dW3.21576@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: <%iTmg.71706$4L1.61111@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:56:59 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: ... > > Going from a dipole to a folded dipole eliminated my arcing > problem. Thank you for sharing that with us, Cecil. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 225715 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <5Ubmg.226445$Fs1.191002@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <129lsrmt0sbhba3@corp.supernews.com> <1151010908.770266.158020@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1151022905.047059.104540@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1151032496.655092.149520@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1LRmg.122463$dW3.21576@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <%iTmg.71706$4L1.61111@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:19:59 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Going from a dipole to a folded dipole eliminated my arcing >> problem. > > Thank you for sharing that with us, Cecil. Well, W8JI said going from a dipole to a folded dipole doesn't change the noise level. Not only did it eliminate arcing but it probably eliminated any trace of corona. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225716 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Ken Finney" Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Message-ID: References: <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> wrote in message news:129m6ct3rdtui3a@corp.supernews.com... > David wrote: > >> On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:34:52 -0500, "DrDeath" >> wrote: >> >> >> >>>India is not a country we rely on to build super companies (for lack of a >>>better term). Take a look at what we send to India. Toxic chemical >>>factories that would be choked to death by special interest groups and >>>politicians. We also outsource technical support, which is a waste of >>>time and money, good thing companies don't pay them much, but it's a >>>cheap way of saying "we have tech support" without truly having it. Look >>>at the shoe mfg. industry, all moved to third world slave labor >>>countries. Good for the shoe industry as they no longer have to deal with >>>unions and we keep management and development in countries that have the >>>talent and resources to maintain state of the art products. Look at how >>>the auto industry has changed. They sent 1000s of jobs overseas to cut >>>down on union labor (with management and R&D in the US), and the Japs are >>>opening plants in the US (with management and R&D in Japan) that will >>>never deal with the UAW. I could go on forever with this post (and talk >>>about NAFTA), but will end my rave at this point. >>>BTW, changed subject header as it didn't seem to fit. I would have >>>trimmed a few NGs but am unsure what groups you are subscribed to. >>> >> >> The purpose of business is to keep people busy. >> > The purpose of business is to make money for it's owners. Everything else > is charity. > > This aught to cause a flame war. :^) No, everything else is criminal malfeasance. Article: 225717 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <09adneMXu5xgVQbZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079062.527418.130050@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:31:59 -0500 Message-ID: <449c25e4$0$14505$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > > Typing and reading are visually based. So it makes sense that those are a > > problem. But do you have difficulty saying words or hearing them? Just > > because the typing is a problem, doesn't mean that the aural/spoken is a > > problem. Reading/writing is a different activity than hearing/speaking and > > uses different parts of the brain. While I can't imagine a graphical method > > working for a dyslexic since it's visual, who can say for sure. > you claim to have certain knowledge of whta is and isn't possible you are probably correct. linguistics is mainly concerned with spoken language, not written. in some languages like English, you'll note that people kind of speak the words out in their brain. other languages like Mandarin seem to be converted directly from characters into ideas. ok, what burns me up is people claiming they can't learn code. there are languages that are tonal, configurational, have bizarre sounds, that put the object before the subject, that have thousands of characters. 99% of the planet learns their native language! code is NOT that different than a language. if you must, you can interpret it as tones, and simply write out the tones on a piece of paper and decode them. Gravity Article: 225718 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <09adneMXu5xgVQbZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079062.527418.130050@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:34:16 -0500 Message-ID: <449c266d$0$14505$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > > By the way, I still have problems with longer characters now and then or > > combinations of certain characters. I had an awful time trying to copy a > > call sign in a contest that began with SH5 (3 dots, 4 dots, 5 dots). > and you dare claim it must be doable by everyone else same here! i have trouble with high speed B, 6, 1, J. however, you can create a practice regimen that focuses on these. a trick for contests might be using a spectrograph or MFJ viewer. good luck. Gravity Article: 225719 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <09adneMXu5xgVQbZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079062.527418.130050@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:35:36 -0500 Message-ID: <449c26bd$0$22410$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > > By the way, I still have problems with longer characters now and then or > > combinations of certain characters. I had an awful time trying to copy a > > call sign in a contest that began with SH5 (3 dots, 4 dots, 5 dots). > and you dare claim it must be doable by everyone else good practice is beacons e.g. 10 meters. they are terse text, contain slashes, and 5s since i hear Texas ones. you sort of have to "decode" what the beacon is talking about. Gravity Article: 225720 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> <0b-dna0PZNH3XwbZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079492.943855.93760@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:38:25 -0500 Message-ID: <449c2766$0$79632$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > How many times, say during Katrina did this occour uh, if you are deserted on an island with a few buckets of electronics junk, your best bet is CW. if you a prisoner of war, CW could be invaluable in getting a message out. there are many other cases where CW can be used in channels that don't support audio. i am a superior creature because i know CW! ;-) Gravity Article: 225721 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4ecmg.101400$H71.89899@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:47:52 -0500 Message-ID: <449c299d$0$79459$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > I'm not sure that anyone here believes Cecil just because he is Cecil. > I don't. Some times I see him posting his way into some very deep holes... that's what i see. he says something controversial, gets challenged, and then scrambles for references. the problem is that many of the references do not directly confirm what he's saying, and a bit of calculation is required. i did some googling, and certainly there are others with Cecil's position. Gravity Article: 225722 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> <0b-dna0PZNH3XwbZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:51:30 -0500 Message-ID: <449c2a77$0$15916$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> >>A deaf person holding an > > HF ham license cannot hear an SOS so the entire purpose of > > forcing him to learn Morse code is bogus. i hate to play devil's advocate, but i can read CW with spectral analysis software. several of us on the very low bands are doing that. yes, the chances of some deaf guy "hearing" an SOS is pretty slim. Gravity Article: 225723 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:01:25 -0500 Message-ID: <449c2cca$0$79858$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> it's sad that people get alienated from hobbies. it's also a fact of life. i downloaded some composition software, and it turned out i SUCK at making digital music. i can play the second movement of Moonlight Sonata, but that's about it. i remember this girl in chemistry class. she studied 5 hours for a test. i studied 10 minutes. my score was 30 points higher than hers. i wasn't necessarily smarter than her, i just knew how to study, and same thing with CW. Gravity Article: 225724 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:05:34 -0500 Message-ID: <449c2dc3$0$84074$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> i learned Morse Code at age 15. i got up to 25 WPM, perfect copy. i made QSOs, did a few contests, and quit for 9 years. i now copy at 18 WPM, which makes me think i learned it like it was a language. some suggestions. use Farnsworth, copying characters at 18 WPM is less annoying. make QSOs! would you learn a language by using audio CDs, or would you talk to native speakers? Gravity Article: 225725 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:09:39 -0500 Message-ID: <449c2eb8$0$74023$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> find out what the format of the test QSO is! i didn't study much for my novice code test. i had no decent tapes, and i had to borrow my dad's computer to use software. computers back then were $2000 and no kid had one. so anyway, i use Supermorse as recommended by my club. i get to the test, realize my code sucks, and luck out because they do a Supermorse QSO. it's easy in today's world: free practice MP3s and $50 computers. Gravity Article: 225726 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <129mlqhjcau6b44@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:17:06 -0500 Message-ID: <449c3078$0$12167$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > The highest level of interest for learning the code is among the young. > > Dee Flint, N8UZE if you are contesting or DXing, CW rules. HF phone contests will drive you insane, esp if you want to win an award. even 10 meter phone was wall to wall stations from 28.300 to 29.000. i had phased Yagis, and had to go way high, or end up stomping on someone. if you want to run DX, good luck with 100 watts on SSB. Gravity Article: 225727 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:13:52 -0500 Message-ID: <129ofbikiuh3114@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> <0b-dna0PZNH3XwbZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079492.943855.93760@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449c2766$0$79632$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "gravity" wrote in message news:449c2766$0$79632$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net... > uh, if you are deserted on an island with a few buckets of electronics junk, > your best bet is CW. Agreed > > if you a prisoner of war, CW could be invaluable in getting a message out. > there are many other cases where CW can be used in channels that don't > support audio. Agreed, but I seriously doubt that I will ever be a POW. > i am a superior creature because i know CW! ;-) I am a superior creature because I know the NECA code, as CW will not pay your bills. Article: 225728 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:14:12 -0500 Message-ID: <129ofc5sa5ssl28@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <129mlqhjcau6b44@corp.supernews.com> "Dee Flint" wrote in message news:k6Sdnby3hpHaWQbZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@comcast.com... > > "DrDeath" wrote in message > news:129mlqhjcau6b44@corp.supernews.com... >> "Steveo" wrote in message >> news:20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com... >>> "DrDeath" wrote: >>>>> With deaf people use can use a light or a subwoofer for them to copy >>>> code. >>>> >>> Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, and >>> mark >>> morgan can't get it done? (they're not deaf, just brain dead hud >>> dwelling >>> sissy's) >>> >>> CW is for old people anyway aint it? :) >> >> LOL, I sure have no interest in CW. I must still be young :-P >> > > The highest level of interest for learning the code is among the young. > > Dee Flint, N8UZE > Back when I was young and interested I lost my desire to learn code when I started monitoring the ham bands. It all seemed too formal, and then like it is now, you have a large segment that think you are trash if you don't have the highest obtainable license. Even this thread proves it. You have a large contingent hell bent on having CW testing with any class, even though I never plan to use CW. I could get my Tech ticket, but then all I'm going to hear is that I'm a no-code tech. I rather be a CBer as we have no cast system. Article: 225729 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:14:14 -0500 Message-ID: <129ofcbce6lv02d@corp.supernews.com> References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <1150890810.270718.211170@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449w90d-34354odre-a$f09@miami.fl.news> <129lvmupd8190c6@corp.supernews.com> <20060622214335.020$uF@newsreader.com> <129mmt8g13b1sdf@corp.supernews.com> <20060622232054.024$C4@newsreader.com> "Steveo" wrote in message news:20060622232054.024$C4@newsreader.com... > "DrDeath" wrote: >> "Steveo" wrote in message >> news:20060622214335.020$uF@newsreader.com... >> > "DrDeath" wrote: >> > -snipper- >> >> Mark chooses to sit on >> >> his ass sucking the entitlement system dry and contributing nothing to >> >> society, while this person decided to make the best of his what God >> >> gave him and he contributes to the same entitlement system that Mark >> >> chooses to deplete. >> >> >> > Testify! That asswipe is too dumb to come in out of the rain. He's best >> > left ignored. >> >> I think most of the RRCB regulars have pretty much ignored him as of >> late. It's his pathetic RRAP buddies that followed him here that keep him >> fueled >> > Yea, I stated a thread about that titled ham operators...why must they > ruin > RRCB? > > Eric Oyen was the only ht ham to tell me how wrong I was. Oh well. > Like his opinion counts. Obviously the rest know the truth and don't deny it. Article: 225730 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:14:08 -0500 Message-ID: <129ofc1i3aafs20@corp.supernews.com> References: <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <449c2dc3$0$84074$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "gravity" wrote in message news:449c2dc3$0$84074$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net... (snipped) > make QSOs! would you learn a language by using audio CDs, or would you > talk > to native speakers? > > Gravity I learned Spanish with a combination of both. Article: 225731 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:14:17 -0500 Message-ID: <129ofcclvejs22f@corp.supernews.com> References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> <129m9ijcnshm47f@corp.supernews.com> "David" wrote in message news:u9tn92tmv5angta69k852on9jq12brc412@4ax.com... > On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:22:57 -0500, "DrDeath" > wrote: > >> > >>> The purpose of business is to keep people busy. >>> >>No, It is to make money. >> >> > Then it would be called moneyness. Then I guess all those Fotrune 500 people have it wrong as they are in buisness for making money. Even my boss hired me to make money, not to keep me busy. Hell I can keep myself busy. > > Those gated communities won't protect you from the thundering hordes > of hungry people. > Gated communities? I live in the sticks armed to the teeth. They can eat the dead bodies I leave in the yard. Article: 225732 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> <0b-dna0PZNH3XwbZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079492.943855.93760@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449c2766$0$79632$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129ofbikiuh3114@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:54:40 -0500 Message-ID: <449c4755$0$21501$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > I am a superior creature because I know the NECA code, as CW will not pay > your bills. i'm a professional contester! (it violates the rules, but we do it anyway.) Gravity Article: 225733 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <129mlqhjcau6b44@corp.supernews.com> <129ofc5sa5ssl28@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:57:32 -0500 Message-ID: <449c4801$0$16332$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> >It all seemed too formal, and then like it > is now, you have a large segment that think you are trash if you don't have > the highest obtainable license. i have Extra, MCSE, and BS in engineering. i don't associate with those dipole and QRP types. ;-) Gravity Article: 225734 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <449c2dc3$0$84074$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129ofc1i3aafs20@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:03:20 -0500 Message-ID: <449c495d$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > I learned Spanish with a combination of both. and when you want to get really good, you start making posts in the Spanish newsgroups. you might even drive to Mexico to test your knowledge. same thing with CW (kinda). Gravity Article: 225735 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:50:02 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > John - KD5YI wrote: > >> Well, suppose you have a #18 ga stranded wire composed of 7 strands of >> #26. One strand is sticking up all by itself. The end of the strand >> (if cut off squarely) is about 0.0013 cm^2. So a current flow of 0.13 >> uA from the end of this strand is 100 uA/cm^2. > > > We can suppose all sorts of conditions to obtain corona. > There's absolutely no argument about that. The argument > is whether corona occurs 100% of the time on any and all > antennas with charged particle static. If corona occurs > only 99.9% of the time, the corona gang loses the argument. > > The argument is whether corona *always* accompanies charged > particle noise. That's an exclusive assertion that there > exists no cases where corona doesn't accompany charged > particle noise. > > I fully agree that corona *often* accompanies charged particle > noise but that's an inclusive assertion. > > If enough particles hit the antenna to just > barely hear the noise on a receiver, the corona crowd says > that corona caused the noise. I would like to see some proof > for such a statement so far out of mainstream physics. > > Can we suppose a condition where corona won't happen? > How about a #14 solid wire with rounded ends? Do you think > it could build up enough charged particle noise to be heard > in a receiver without the existence of corona? I applied simple arithmetic to show that 100 uA/cm^2 is almost meaningless because there are conditions much more favorable to the generation of corona to consider. If I am wrong, please correct me. Frankly, I think you should try to make up a condition that refutes your own suppositions and see if it flys. If it does, then think of something else. I do that all the time. Sometimes I learn, and sometimes I don't. I try to temper my investigations by asking questions. Why #14 with rounded ends? Because it supports your position? Why not suppose smaller wire and sharper points? Make some calculations for us to review. Use the worst case against yourself, then show why it cannot be so. Frankly, Cecil, I have been somewhat of a follower of yours for some time. You have some thought-provoking ideas and comments, but I am beginning to believe that your entire purpose is to argue. I wish it wasn't so. John Article: 225736 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150605138.230626.17070@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4ecmg.101400$H71.89899@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <449c299d$0$79459$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <4iZmg.104124$H71.96124@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:45:36 GMT gravity wrote: > i did some googling, and certainly there are others with Cecil's position. On most topics, I am mainstream conventional engineering and physics - discovered over the past century or so. It is the wannabe gurus who need to discover something original so badly that they are willing to go against the accepted laws of physics. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225737 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4ecmg.101400$H71.89899@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <449c299d$0$79459$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151086283.178019.29870@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:08:33 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Rather than rationalize and walk through disagreements step-by-step > Cecil prefers to distort and bully. From Websters: "rationalize - 1. to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes." I agree that describes exactly what you do here on this newsgroup but why do you think rationalizing is a good thing? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225738 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <449c2dc3$0$84074$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129ofc1i3aafs20@corp.supernews.com> <449c495d$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:10:21 GMT gravity wrote: > and when you want to get really good, you start making posts in the Spanish > newsgroups. you might even drive to Mexico to test your knowledge. > > same thing with CW (kinda). Where is the CW newsgroup? .... .. .... .. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225739 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing References: <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> <129m9ijcnshm47f@corp.supernews.com> <129ofcclvejs22f@corp.supernews.com> <0bjo92p0h2dfqcum243lc3u1mqv49nu10h@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:13:37 GMT David wrote: > Corporations pay way less than half the cost of running governments, Corporations don't pay any of the cost of running governments - their customers pay it all. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225740 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:34:55 GMT John - KD5YI wrote: > Frankly, I think you should try to make up a condition that refutes your > own suppositions and see if it flys. My supposition is that it is possible for charged particle noise to exist without corona. That inclusive supposition cannot be refuted by one condition. That supposition can only be refuted by all conditions which is not possible to implement in reality. My type of supposition: Not all cars are white. This cannot be disproved by only one example. The other sides supposition is that charged particle noise is *always* accompanied by corona. All it takes is one example to refute that exclusive assertion. Their type of supposition: All cars are white. This can be disproved by only one example. > Why #14 with rounded ends? Because it supports your position? Why not > suppose smaller wire and sharper points? Seems you misunderstand. I'm not saying corona never occurs. I'm saying it is possible for charged particle noise to exist without corona occurring. Do you understand the difference between an exclusive statement and an inclusive statement? It's the other side making the exclusive assertions. All I have to do is present one example where charged particle noise exists without corona. That case may be a #14 wire with rounded ends. I have made no exclusive statements. If there is corona in 99.9% of the cases, the other side still loses the argument. It is the opposition that has made the exclusive statement that charged particle noise is *always* accompanied by corona. My supposition is that charged particle noise is NOT always accompanied by corona. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225741 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> <0b-dna0PZNH3XwbZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079492.943855.93760@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449c2766$0$79632$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151098783.711872.84350@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:15:20 -0500 Message-ID: <449c765f$0$16281$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore > than that your engineering skill is formidable. Gravity Article: 225742 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1150639802.286568.197520@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <4496a56c$0$16375$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449731e2$0$14626$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <4ecmg.101400$H71.89899@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <449c299d$0$79459$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151086283.178019.29870@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:17:49 -0500 Message-ID: <449c76f4$0$14505$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:BDZmg.104277$H71.94289@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > > Rather than rationalize and walk through disagreements step-by-step > > Cecil prefers to distort and bully. > > From Websters: > "rationalize - 1. to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) > to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but > that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious > and often less creditable or agreeable causes." > > I agree that describes exactly what you do here on this > newsgroup but why do you think rationalizing is a good thing? agreed. W8JI means being rational. Gravity Article: 225743 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:25:52 -0500 Message-ID: <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > My type of supposition: Not all cars are white. > > This cannot be disproved by only one example. i think this is modal logic. "all cars are white" is a statement about the whole set. thus the whiteness of each element must be verified. we get into semantics. what is "white". what is "car". sometimes the situation gets complex. we can prove that 100% of the zeroes fall up on the critical line, but this does not rule out a counterexample. i guess my main point is we need to define "clear weather charged particle noise". Gravity Article: 225744 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> <129m9ijcnshm47f@corp.supernews.com> <129ofcclvejs22f@corp.supernews.com> <0bjo92p0h2dfqcum243lc3u1mqv49nu10h@4ax.com> Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:27:54 -0500 Message-ID: <449c7950$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:lIZmg.104309$H71.44092@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > David wrote: > > Corporations pay way less than half the cost of running governments, corporations pay more than half the legislator's hooker bills. ;-) Gravity Article: 225745 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> <0b-dna0PZNH3XwbZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079492.943855.93760@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449c2766$0$79632$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151098783.711872.84350@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <449c765f$0$16281$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:29:27 GMT gravity wrote: >> and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore >> than that > > your engineering skill is formidable. I don't know much about spark. Was the length of the spark controllable such that dots and dashes could be differentiated? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225746 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:36:39 GMT gravity wrote: > i guess my main point is we need to define "clear weather charged particle > noise". It's what happens when the wind blows in the Arizona desert when the humidity is low and there's not a cloud in the state. There are hundreds of reports on the web of such a phenomenon. Example: http://www.eham.net/forums/Elmers/83174 -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225747 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John Barnard Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing References: <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> <129m9ijcnshm47f@corp.supernews.com> <129ofcclvejs22f@corp.supernews.com> <0bjo92p0h2dfqcum243lc3u1mqv49nu10h@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:46:01 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > David wrote: >> Corporations pay way less than half the cost of running governments, > > Corporations don't pay any of the cost of running > governments - their customers pay it all. You are right! Corporations don't pay the cost of running governments. They pay the cost of usurping governments! JB Article: 225748 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129md8dpa74dk64@corp.supernews.com> <0b-dna0PZNH3XwbZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <1151079492.943855.93760@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <449c2766$0$79632$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151098783.711872.84350@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <449c765f$0$16281$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:59:33 -0500 Message-ID: <449c8ecd$0$15844$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:HH%mg.28379$VE1.3169@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com... > gravity wrote: > >> and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore > >> than that > > > > your engineering skill is formidable. > > I don't know much about spark. Was the length of the spark > controllable such that dots and dashes could be differentiated? click short pause clack = dit click long pause clack = dah i think it would be hard to decode vs listening to a modern receiver. i believe spark gap would be useless in a rescue situation. Gravity Article: 225749 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:04:53 -0500 Message-ID: <449c900d$0$79858$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:rO%mg.28380$VE1.5622@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com... > gravity wrote: > > i guess my main point is we need to define "clear weather charged particle > > noise". > > It's what happens when the wind blows in the Arizona > desert when the humidity is low and there's not a > cloud in the state. There are hundreds of reports > on the web of such a phenomenon. Example: i researched ULF antennas and came up with this: 1. triboelectric noise due to movement 2. static on long wires due to lightning on microwave, you'll get tropospheric scintillation noise. you are talking HF, so i dunno much. Gravity Article: 225750 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: From: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 01:45:01 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > gravity wrote: > > i guess my main point is we need to define "clear weather charged particle > > noise". > It's what happens when the wind blows in the Arizona > desert when the humidity is low and there's not a > cloud in the state. There are hundreds of reports > on the web of such a phenomenon. Example: > http://www.eham.net/forums/Elmers/83174 > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp And it happens in inland Southern California with Santa Ana winds. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. Article: 225751 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DrDeath" Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:34:41 -0500 Message-ID: <129p6at1dnfc450@corp.supernews.com> References: <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <129mb7gtgb7fo46@corp.supernews.com> <20060622212109.461$6g@newsreader.com> <20060622213811.188$kD@newsreader.com> <1iImg.71606$4L1.45899@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <449c2dc3$0$84074$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <129ofc1i3aafs20@corp.supernews.com> <449c495d$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "gravity" wrote in message news:449c495d$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net... >> I learned Spanish with a combination of both. > > and when you want to get really good, you start making posts in the > Spanish > newsgroups. you might even drive to Mexico to test your knowledge. > > same thing with CW (kinda). > > Gravity > > LOL! I went to Mexico last summer. Article: 225752 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:43:51 -0500 Message-ID: <449ca73f$0$16401$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> wrote in message news:ufhum3-7l6.ln1@mail.specsol.com... > Cecil Moore wrote: > > gravity wrote: > > > i guess my main point is we need to define "clear weather charged particle > > > noise". > > > It's what happens when the wind blows in the Arizona > > desert when the humidity is low and there's not a > > cloud in the state. There are hundreds of reports > > on the web of such a phenomenon. Example: > > > http://www.eham.net/forums/Elmers/83174 > > -- > > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > And it happens in inland Southern California with Santa Ana winds. lab experiment: leaf blower. Gravity > > -- > Jim Pennino > > Remove .spam.sux to reply. Article: 225753 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449c900d$0$79858$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151115068.941055.148760@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:04:08 -0500 Message-ID: <449cac00$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> wrote in message news:1151115068.941055.148760@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Here is where Cecil claimed the noise was from individual particles > hitting the antenna: particle rubs against aluminum antenna and creates triboelectric charge. a different particle transfers charge to the conductor. wind movement causes triboelectric noise. i'm not sure if all 3 of these are the same thing. Gravity Article: 225754 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <44995516$0$11193$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1aOdnQMcX-kk9gTZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com> <129lvnf4h9st2d3@corp.supernews.com> <129m9ijcnshm47f@corp.supernews.com> <129ofcclvejs22f@corp.supernews.com> <0bjo92p0h2dfqcum243lc3u1mqv49nu10h@4ax.com> <449c7950$0$16322$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: OT: Outsourcing Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:05:32 -0500 Message-ID: <449cac54$0$79787$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "james" wrote in message news:ol8p92dre195s6161a9m3jfl616483djam@4ax.com... > On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:27:54 -0500, "gravity" > wrote: > > >+++ > >+++"Cecil Moore" wrote in message > >+++news:lIZmg.104309$H71.44092@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > >+++> David wrote: > >+++> > Corporations pay way less than half the cost of running governments, > >+++ > >+++corporations pay more than half the legislator's hooker bills. ;-) > >+++ > >+++Gravity > >+++ > ********* > > And don't forget the bar tab and vacations i shoulda majored in political science. :-/ Gravity Article: 225755 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> From: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:15:02 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > > Cecil Moore wrote: > > > gravity wrote: > > > > i guess my main point is we need to define "clear weather charged particle > > > > noise". > > > > > It's what happens when the wind blows in the Arizona > > > desert when the humidity is low and there's not a > > > cloud in the state. There are hundreds of reports > > > on the web of such a phenomenon. Example: > > > > > http://www.eham.net/forums/Elmers/83174 > > > -- > > > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > > > And it happens in inland Southern California with Santa Ana winds. > > > > -- > > Jim Pennino > ....and it happens here in humid Georgia, and in dry Georgia, and in > Ohio in summer and winter. There doesn't need to be a particle in > sight. > I can go outside and float the feeder of my long 160M dipole that is > 300 feet high. The whack will knock you right on your rump. But that > charge is actually pulling the antenna CLOSER to the potential of the > air around the antenna. When I ground that antenna so the antenna moves > to earth potential, the corna from that antenna actually gets > worse....not better. > The reason is pretty simple. The earth is a big charge sink, and is > really at considerably different potential than the air at 300 feet > even on a clear calm day. A little wind helps quite a bit, pushing > charged air past the antenna and increasing the charge rate. > What most people miss is that it is the difference in potential between > earth (or lower heights) and the air around the antenna that causes the > leakage currents. The wind simply increases the problem. > 73 Tom Umm, no, two different things. If it were charge building somewhere and discharging it wouldn't have the characteristics it does, which is random, continuous, of extremely short duration, and at a very high rate. When it gets bad, it is quite visible as very random "snow" on TV channels 2 through 4 on an otherwise perfect picture. The snow is spots of extremely short duration. Arcing (my neighbor has an arc welder so I have something to compare it to) shows up as lines. When watching TV while he is welding it is very obvious from the visual "noise" when he trying to start an arc on some rusty thing versus an established arc from the length of the visual "noise". This particular effect ONLY happens during low humidity on very windy days. The intensity of the snow changes very little with wind speed, the duration not at all, but the rate changes drastically. I took all the electromagnetic courses to get my BSEE and I'm a pilot, so yes, I know about corona. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. Article: 225756 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <449a5059$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: antenna papers Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:22:11 -0500 Message-ID: <449cb03b$0$16300$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Dave" wrote in message news:LsKdnTyFfbdsYAfZnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@comcast.com... > gravity wrote: > > > any good antenna theory sites? i have taken emag and difeqs, but i need > > something that it is easy on the brane. > > > > should i get the Kraus book? > > > > TIA, > > > > Gravity > > > > > > ANTENNAS, J. Kraus, McGraw-Hill 1950, is a great reference. If you passed 'emag > and difeqs' in college you should be comfortable with Kraus. > > Now, I have a question: "If you passed 'emag and difeqs' why do you worry about > 'easy on the brane[sic]' ? You have adequate 'brane' power. > there's no reason to have so many quotation marks. using terms like "engineering electromagnetics" and "ordinary differential equations" reeks of pretension, imo. Gravity Article: 225757 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449c900d$0$79858$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151113980.126253.96170@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <5h2ng.50439$fb2.15052@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:25:53 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: I'm going to respond to this posting in two parts. > 1.) First he clearly stated he thought the noise was from each > individual charged particle of dust striking the antenna millions of > times a secon making a noise at radio frequencies. Obviously, I didn't say each particle strikes the antenna millions of times a second. What I said was that although others had reported being able to hear each individual collision, I had never been able to do that. So your statement is false. > 2.) Then he wrongly assumed "shorting the antenna for dc" would also > "short the noise". ' You are mixing apples and oranges. This was in the context of eliminating the arcing of my coax connector laying on the rug. Sure enough, shorting the antenna for DC eliminated the arcing thus eliminating the noise. Your statement is deliberately misleading. For the record, when the wind was blowing charged dust particles across my bare wire antenna under a clear sky, the S-meter noise increased as the wind speed increased and decreased as the wind speed decreased. > He apparently missed the fact HE (Cecil) claimed the noise was radio > frequency noise caused by each particle hitting the antenna. If it was > such, shorting the antenna for dc would only make the noise worse. No, I didn't say that. I specifically said that it was NOT me who said they could correlate noise to each specific particle. Is the only way you can win the argument is to falsify what I have said? > Now it seems he is changing his tune, saying it is arcing in the coax > that is a concern. No, you are the one who is mixing up the two different subjects. One was an arcing problem that I needed to solve. The other is the measures that can be taken to make an antenna less noisy. Please stop the deliberate mixing of these two subjects. I am willing to rationally discuss either one separately. > Cecil paints himself into a corner with silly statements. Then he tries > to cover it up by saying he never actually said what he said. As you are doing, I could cut and paste your postings to make you seem ignorant and insane. But only an unethical person does that. > But at least now we are in agreement. The noise is caused either by > arcs or corona, not by particle discharges into the antenna as they > connect. No we are NOT in agreement. In the absence of arcing or corona, charged particle noise exists and has been experienced by many people. A web search for "precipitation static" will yield any number of references, including amateur radio references. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225758 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 03:32:07 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> gravity wrote: >>>> i guess my main point is we need to define "clear weather charged particle >>>> noise". >>> It's what happens when the wind blows in the Arizona >>> desert when the humidity is low and there's not a >>> cloud in the state. There are hundreds of reports >>> on the web of such a phenomenon. Example: >>> http://www.eham.net/forums/Elmers/83174 >>> -- >> And it happens in inland Southern California with Santa Ana winds. >> > ....and it happens here in humid Georgia, and in dry Georgia, and in > Ohio in summer and winter. There doesn't need to be a particle in > sight. We are talking about antennas that have virtually no charge when the wind is not blowing and acquire charge when the wind blows charged particles across the antenna. It is something that you have apparently never seen are are therefore completely ignorant of. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225759 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449c900d$0$79858$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151115068.941055.148760@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 04:06:40 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Here is where Cecil claimed the noise was from individual particles > hitting the antenna: Sorry, Tom, you are mistaken. Read it again. It is true that each individual particle that touches the antenna transfers some charge but the following was *purely hypothetical*. I have *NEVER* said I could hear the noise from an individual particle. "Let's assume" is what one utters just before a hypothetical exercise in logic. It is obviously hypothetical because exactly 1/2 of the charge is assumed to be transferred. > W5DXP said: >> Let's assume one highly charged particle hits dipole element >> A and transfers half of its charge. This is a hypothetical experimental charged particle as one would get by rubbing amber on wool and touching it to the antenna. w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Cecil claimed P-static was broadband noise from each particle hitting > the antenna. That's a false statement. When I said *assume* one highly charged particle, it was a purely hypothetical particle. CP-static is a cumulative effect. I personally have never heard one particle hitting an antenna although others have reported that they have heard it. I have never said that one particle hitting the antenna could be heard in the receiver. > Notice, unlike Cecil, I don't lift things from context to > change the meaning. His full unedited statement is above, and it shows > what he intended to say. You are attempting to change the meaning at the present, Tom. That was a hypothetical highly charged particle, Tom, not one that is likely to exist in the real world. I have previously said that I could NOT hear the individual particles. My hypothetical highly charged particle was like a piece of amber that had been rubbed against wool and then touched to the antenna. I suspect that one could hear that event in the receiver. > He made several clear posts like that, but at least now he seems to be > coming around and understanding it is arcing and corona noise. Please stop the mind fornication. Such is highly unethical but unfortunately standard practice for you for years now. Sometimes noise is caused by arcing. Sometimes noise is caused by corona. Sometimes noise is caused by charged particles in the absence of arcing and corona. I am NOT coming around and I do NOT seem to be coming around. Please stop misrepresenting what I have said. It doesn't make you look any less ignorant and it confuses the readers. If you want to proceed with a rational argument, I can explain and defend everything I have said and I am NOT coming around to your strange concepts. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225760 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 04:10:25 GMT jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > When it gets bad, it is quite visible as very random "snow" on TV > channels 2 through 4 on an otherwise perfect picture. > > The snow is spots of extremely short duration. So one can see the individual charged particles even if one cannot hear the individual charged particles. That makes a lot of sense. I wish I had thought to hook my antenna up to my TV while the charged particle problem was occurring. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225761 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <09adneMXu5xgVQbZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:47:44 -0700 "Dee Flint" wrote in message news:09adneMXu5xgVQbZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com... > > > > Typing and reading are visually based. So it makes sense that those are a > problem. But do you have difficulty saying words or hearing them? Just > because the typing is a problem, doesn't mean that the aural/spoken is a > problem. Reading/writing is a different activity than hearing/speaking and > uses different parts of the brain. While I can't imagine a graphical method > working for a dyslexic since it's visual, who can say for sure. > > By the way, I still have problems with longer characters now and then or > combinations of certain characters. I had an awful time trying to copy a > call sign in a contest that began with SH5 (3 dots, 4 dots, 5 dots). > I have problems with most characters of four or more elements length. Exceptions are and , for some reason. As I have said here, after hearing dit-dah-dah-dit identified, whatever it is, I cannot subsequently hear it and know what it is. I think my own first name initial, is some combination of three-and-one or one-and-three, but I can't remember it. Oh yeah -- I know because the dit-dit-dit-dah sounds like the 1812 overture. I dial a telephone with two fingers -- one pushing the buttons and one holding my place in the phone book, since I have to go back and look at the number repeatedly. Yes, I do memorize phone numbers, but I may invert the digits when I try to dial them. This is a royal pain in the ass. When I joined the Navy in 1962, one of our tests was for clerical skill, which involved inspecting columns of numbers and calling the entries on each line either ALIKE or DIFFERENT. I scored a 35, lower than anybody I ever met. I wanted to be a Yeoman (clerical duties). Instead, they sent me to ET school and I've never looked back. I'll read any responses, but I think I'm pretty well talked out on this one. Article: 225762 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <9e847$4482def6$d06640f9$28274@FUSE.NET> <1149441418.531073.162560@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9937b$44969457$d06640f9$14348@FUSE.NET> <44969559.30D72920@milestones.com> <129lvmgofeujhbd@corp.supernews.com> <09adneMXu5xgVQbZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com> Subject: Re: Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other. Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:22:17 -0500 Message-ID: <449ccc63$0$16418$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > When I joined the Navy in 1962, one of our tests was for clerical skill, > which involved inspecting columns of numbers and calling the entries on each > line either ALIKE or DIFFERENT. I scored a 35, lower than anybody I ever > met. character transposition. some people are bad at it. i suspect there is a genetic predisposition. Gravity Article: 225763 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" Subject: Magloop and ground mat blues..... Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 06:26:49 GMT My homebrew 3 foot dia Magloop works very well vertically mounted 3 foot off the ground but i`m wondering if maybe it could do a little better in the low angle radiation department ....i seem to hear stations within 1000miles consistently strongest.....VKs and stateside etc much lower !!!..... The loop is mounted on a rotator above a groundmat buried about 6 inches beneath the lawn and consists of 30 radials each about 30 foot long and the loop is mounted in the centre, is that ok, or should i work the loop higher than 3 feet above the mat, or remove the ground mat and work just with medium loam soil underneath instead??........ Thanks to Cecil and others for help and advice in building the loop, it tunes 40 thro` 15 meters...... Lee......G6ZSG..... Article: 225764 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <449a5059$0$80513$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449cb03b$0$16300$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Subject: Re: antenna papers Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:16:08 -0500 Message-ID: <449d2d68$0$16347$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Dave" wrote in message news:aPKdncTgppLquwDZnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com... > When I am quoting anyone I put their words or phrases in quotations. > > Don't you? > given "snipping" by others, your method may be superior to mine. Gravity Article: 225765 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <449c900d$0$79858$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151113980.126253.96170@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> <5h2ng.50439$fb2.15052@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <1151144386.053832.309480@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:00:08 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> As you are doing, I could cut and paste your postings to make you >> seem ignorant and insane. But only an unethical person does that. > > Then you are also unethical, because if you look back that is EXACTLY > what you do to others. It is my custom to trim out the part of postings with which I agree and respond to the part with which I disagree. I believe that is in accordance with the newsgroup guidelines. I do not, as you do, cut and paste to completely change the meaning of what was previously posted so you can attack a straw man of your own creation. Your latest posting, where you take my mental exercise example of a hypothetical antenna with a hypothetical highly charged particle hitting it to try to prove that I said each real world particle causes noise that can be heard in a receiver is really, really lame. > That is why Roy and others have you in a "Cecil filter". Roy ploinked me because I said an antenna is a distributed network. I thought he had previously said an antenna was a lumped circuit. Instead of telling me that's not what he meant and giving me a chance to apologize, he ploinked me. When you are willing to rationally discuss those hypothetical examples I have posted, let me know. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225766 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <1151144022.537224.263570@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <7K6dnUXV_N89gADZRVnyhA@bt.com> Subject: Re: Magloop and ground mat blues..... Message-ID: <06bng.475487$xt.71714@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:28:28 GMT "Reg Edwards" wrote in message news:7K6dnUXV_N89gADZRVnyhA@bt.com... > Lee, > Signals within 1000 miles come through strongest because they are > nearer to you. Agreed.... > Also, with an antenna height of only 3 feet, low-angle reception and > radiation suffers from being screened by buildings and other > obstructions in the vicinity of the antenna. Also agreed.... > At low heights there is a considerable power loss induced in the soil > under the antenna. Your radial system is of little use. Only a large > metal sheet placed on the soil surface would be effective. Yes... > Your buried radial system is an overkill. If it was removed you would > probably notice no difference in performance. But the radials will > perform an excellent service if you should later wish to erect a > vertical antenna above them. That was what the groundmat was for originally, but my neighbours didn`t like it, so, down it came....hence the magloop... > An increase in height will result in better low-angle DX. Increasing > height to only to 8 or 10 feet should produce a noticeable > improvement. And loss in the ground will be negligible. I`ll try that Reg, i just wasn`t sure above which height would be of little or no advantage, vertical.... but if the loop were horizontal then halfwave at the lowest frequncy i suppose!! > To get it above ALL low-angle obstructions, fix it to your house > chimney. ;o) No chimney Reg :-/ Thanks..... Lee.....G6ZSG...... > Reg, G4FGQ. > > Article: 225767 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <1151144022.537224.263570@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Magloop and ground mat blues..... Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:39:18 GMT wrote in message news:1151144022.537224.263570@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Lee wrote: < > > With a low height "vertically polarized" loop the ground would never > hurt the antenna and always help it to some extent. The only exception > might be if the soil is so very poor it looks nearly invisible, or so > good it looks perfect. Loam!!!.... > I would not remove the ground mat, although 6 inches is pretty deep! ????.......mat was the wrong word i suppose....ground system if you wish...... > A small loop is a very inefficient radiator unless you do everything > perfectly, and if perfectly done it has mediocre efficiency. Better than the small low antennas that i could fit into a 35` x 16` garden... ;-) > So how did you build the loop? Oh, the regular circular shape 10`x 0.625" tube with a `T` shaped frame support and motor driven cap........ Lee......G6ZSG...... > Article: 225768 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <1151144022.537224.263570@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <7K6dnUXV_N89gADZRVnyhA@bt.com> <06bng.475487$xt.71714@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: Magloop and ground mat blues..... Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 09:10:06 -0500 Message-ID: <449d4821$0$16012$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > I`ll try that Reg, i just wasn`t sure above which height would be of little > or no advantage, vertical.... > but if the loop were horizontal then halfwave at the lowest frequncy i > suppose!! i used radials with my monopoles, but not my vertical dipoles. i have never used a Magloop. i suspect getting an antenna off the ground helps. the trees and buildings are out of the way. does it lower the elevation angle? does it change ground loss? just as an example, i tried a 10 meter vertical at 100 feet. it compared favorably with a tribander on some paths! conventional wisdom is that a beam smokes a vertical. Gravity Article: 225769 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Magloop and ground mat blues..... References: <1151144022.537224.263570@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <7K6dnUXV_N89gADZRVnyhA@bt.com> <06bng.475487$xt.71714@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk> <449d4821$0$16012$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:22:39 GMT gravity wrote: > just as an example, i tried a 10 meter vertical at 100 feet. it compared > favorably with a tribander on some paths! EZNEC will tell you why. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225770 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "J. Mc Laughlin" Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:40:07 -0400 Message-ID: <129qn4gq8iod1f@corp.supernews.com> References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> Dear Jim Pennino WB6DKH: Well said, and yet here we are over 100 messages latter (even with a Cecil filter) with strange contentions still going on. It has become apparent that this is a religious debate and it is time for additional filtering. To supplement my message of June 7, 2006: One should provide continuity to earth from as many elevated conductors as possible. It is sometimes difficult to do this with guy wires that are "broken up" with insulators. Location is an important factor with respect to which local, non-man-made noise sources dominate. In Toledo, Ohio and Georgia it might be one thing and in the Arizona desert quite a different thing. Time and local weather is also an important factor. Lighting discharges off of, or towards, an antenna will dominate everything else. Having spent the last 73% of my life in an academic setting involving science and engineering where orthodoxy applies only (temporarily) to verified physical laws, I now understand why wars are fought over which end of the egg is cracked first. It has rounded out my education. As Roy has pointed out: it important to observe to the readers who are not participating that they should filter what they read with care. Thank you Jim for interjecting your experience. 73 Mac N8TT -- J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A. Home: JCM@Power-Net.Net > > Umm, no, two different things. > > If it were charge building somewhere and discharging it wouldn't have > the characteristics it does, which is random, continuous, of extremely > short duration, and at a very high rate. > > When it gets bad, it is quite visible as very random "snow" on TV > channels 2 through 4 on an otherwise perfect picture. > > The snow is spots of extremely short duration. > > Arcing (my neighbor has an arc welder so I have something to compare > it to) shows up as lines. When watching TV while he is welding it > is very obvious from the visual "noise" when he trying to start an > arc on some rusty thing versus an established arc from the length > of the visual "noise". > > This particular effect ONLY happens during low humidity on very > windy days. > > The intensity of the snow changes very little with wind speed, the > duration not at all, but the rate changes drastically. > > I took all the electromagnetic courses to get my BSEE and I'm a > pilot, so yes, I know about corona. > > -- > Jim Pennino > > Article: 225771 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <1h70n3-291.ln1@mail.specsol.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 17:47:27 GMT jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > Since there is nothing in the air large enough to be visible, it > would seem reasonable that whatever is delivering charge to something > is dust particles. Unfortunately, one poster here apparently thinks if he cannot see it, it doesn't exist. Presumably, if he ever goes blind, even his ham transceiver will cease to exist. :-) He reminds me of a governmental expert who said yesterday on Foxnews: Since the successful kill rate for our anti-ICBM missiles is 60%, we have to fire two of them to be sure we shoot it down. :-) (After all 60% + 60% = 120% and wouldn't that be overkill?) :-) > And yes, if it is simple and cheap enough, I'm willing to do it. I indirectly performed experiments in curing my arcing problem. I replaced the bare wire with ordinary 600v insulated wire. It reduced the problem considerably but didn't cure it. I then found an antenna wire called "quietflex" at a hamfest that has 1000v insulation. To the best of my knowledge, that cured the problem. There is apparently a thickness of insulation that prohibits the transfer of charge from dust particles. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225772 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <1h70n3-291.ln1@mail.specsol.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:18:16 -0500 Message-ID: <449d824f$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > He reminds me of a governmental expert who said yesterday > on Foxnews: Since the successful kill rate for our anti-ICBM > missiles is 60%, we have to fire two of them to be sure we > shoot it down. :-) (After all 60% + 60% = 120% and wouldn't > that be overkill?) :-) 84%. the "expert" might borrow a copy of Innumeracy. the astute reader will note that this figure may not work in the real world. Gravity Article: 225773 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <1h70n3-291.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <449d824f$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: <3Wfng.72200$4L1.43465@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:57:03 GMT gravity wrote: >> He reminds me of a governmental expert who said yesterday >> on Foxnews: Since the successful kill rate for our anti-ICBM >> missiles is 60%, we have to fire two of them to be sure we >> shoot it down. :-) (After all 60% + 60% = 120% and wouldn't >> that be overkill?) :-) > > 84%. the "expert" might borrow a copy of Innumeracy. And how many missiles must be fired to 100% assure a kill? :-) The North Koreans probably understand probability even if the governmental expert doesn't. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225774 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <1h70n3-291.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <449d824f$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <3Wfng.72200$4L1.43465@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:01:42 -0500 Message-ID: <449d8c7e$0$79632$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:3Wfng.72200$4L1.43465@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > gravity wrote: > >> He reminds me of a governmental expert who said yesterday > >> on Foxnews: Since the successful kill rate for our anti-ICBM > >> missiles is 60%, we have to fire two of them to be sure we > >> shoot it down. :-) (After all 60% + 60% = 120% and wouldn't > >> that be overkill?) :-) > > > > 84%. the "expert" might borrow a copy of Innumeracy. > > And how many missiles must be fired to 100% assure a > kill? :-) probabilistic methods can be reliable. for instance, primality testing. you can get the possibility of error down to 0.0000001%. but harder with missiles. they still use MIRVs with a hundred dummy warheads? the Patriot was $1 mil a shot as i recall. Gravity Article: 225775 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <1h70n3-291.ln1@mail.specsol.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 20:32:19 GMT Reg Edwards wrote: > The thickness of insulation on an antenna wire does not entirely > reduce noise due to (charged particle) precipitation. Yes, I assumed that was so, but in my case, it reduced the noise to an acceptable level under most conditions. > Only a very small fraction of particle volts is transferred to the > antenna via antenna capacitance. The result is a reduction in > receiver noise. Would you mind explaining this law of physics to W8JI? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225776 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <129qn4gq8iod1f@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 20:54:00 GMT J. Mc Laughlin wrote: > Well said, and yet here we are over 100 messages latter (even with a > Cecil filter) with strange contentions still going on. Please note that 100 years ago, some eminent physicists had their Einstein filters enabled. Light being affected by gravity? Good grief! -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225777 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <129qn4gq8iod1f@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:17:25 -0500 Message-ID: <449dac51$0$16372$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > Please note that 100 years ago, some eminent physicists > had their Einstein filters enabled. Light being affected > by gravity? Good grief! > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp 1687 -- Newton's Principia Mathematica 1912 -- Einstein's General Relativity 2006 -- Cecil's Clear Sky Charged Particles Gravity Article: 225778 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gravity" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <129qn4gq8iod1f@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:19:34 -0500 Message-ID: <449dacd1$0$15591$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > Please note that 100 years ago, some eminent physicists > had their Einstein filters enabled. Light being affected > by gravity? Good grief! All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. (Arthur Schopenhauer) Gravity Article: 225779 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <129qn4gq8iod1f@corp.supernews.com> <449dacd1$0$15591$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:34:02 GMT gravity wrote: > All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is > violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. What is being missed is that charged particle RF noise is already conventional-wisdom/mainstream-physics. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225780 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:40:06 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > John - KD5YI wrote: >> Why #14 with rounded ends? Because it supports your position? Why not >> suppose smaller wire and sharper points? > > > Seems you misunderstand. I'm not saying corona never occurs. > I'm saying it is possible for charged particle > noise to exist without corona occurring. Do you understand the > difference between an exclusive statement and an inclusive > statement? It's the other side making the exclusive assertions. > All I have to do is present one example where charged particle > noise exists without corona. That case may be a #14 wire with > rounded ends. No, Cecil, it seem that *you* misunderstand. My point was that you quote 100 uA/cm^2, and it takes very little current to achieve that with a tiny point. But, nevermind. This has become pointless. John Article: 225781 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dr. Noonian Soong" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <129qn4gq8iod1f@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:54:15 -0500 Message-ID: <449db4f4$0$79459$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:IDhng.157670$F_3.135957@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > J. Mc Laughlin wrote: > > Well said, and yet here we are over 100 messages latter (even with a > > Cecil filter) with strange contentions still going on. > > Please note that 100 years ago, some eminent physicists > had their Einstein filters enabled. Light being affected > by gravity? Good grief! > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp people have Art Bell filter, is a bad thing? silly Americans not know 3 main sources of noise. not hard, use Maxell equations. maybe i hire Dr. Moore to waste people time. they have no energy left put up big array. i win contest. Soong Article: 225782 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dr. Noonian Soong" References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:57:04 -0500 Message-ID: <449db59e$0$16444$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "John - KD5YI" wrote in message news:Wiing.4092$Yk.753@trnddc06... > Cecil Moore wrote: > > John - KD5YI wrote: > > >> Why #14 with rounded ends? Because it supports your position? Why not > >> suppose smaller wire and sharper points? > > > > > > Seems you misunderstand. I'm not saying corona never occurs. > > I'm saying it is possible for charged particle > > noise to exist without corona occurring. Do you understand the > > difference between an exclusive statement and an inclusive > > statement? It's the other side making the exclusive assertions. > > All I have to do is present one example where charged particle > > noise exists without corona. That case may be a #14 wire with > > rounded ends. > > No, Cecil, it seem that *you* misunderstand. My point was that you quote 100 > uA/cm^2, and it takes very little current to achieve that with a tiny point. > > > But, nevermind. This has become pointless. > > John is silly when American need more physics. make up equation and numbers pulled out of hattrick. you make up anything, maybe 99 percent people believe. Soong Article: 225783 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dr. Noonian Soong" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <1h70n3-291.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <449d824f$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <3Wfng.72200$4L1.43465@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:59:39 -0500 Message-ID: <449db639$0$16418$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > And how many missiles must be fired to 100% assure a > kill? :-) missiles shot at Bikini Island, work 100%. no problem blowing up island. maybe government pull head out of ass and make more old school technology. Soong Article: 225784 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dr. Noonian Soong" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <1h70n3-291.ln1@mail.specsol.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 17:00:48 -0500 Message-ID: <449db67d$0$15916$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > Unfortunately, one poster here apparently thinks if he cannot > see it, it doesn't exist. in my country, people say in land of blind one eye man is king. Soong Article: 225785 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dr. Noonian Soong" References: <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> <449c78d7$0$16391$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> <1151114458.462887.105550@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0smum3-l6l.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <129qn4gq8iod1f@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 17:02:23 -0500 Message-ID: <449db6dc$0$51839$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> > Well said, and yet here we are over 100 messages latter (even with a > Cecil filter) with strange contentions still going on. yea, maybe Dr. Moore wrong, maybe Dr. Tom wrong. but i not give advanced contest physics to American. Soong Article: 225786 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:15:10 GMT John - KD5YI wrote: > No, Cecil, it seem that *you* misunderstand. My point was that you quote > 100 uA/cm^2, and it takes very little current to achieve that with a > tiny point. How much current does it take to achieve when a tiny point doesn't exist? Can a dipole made out of #8 wire with rounded ends exhibit corona during receive? If not, the other side loses the argument. I suggest you study exclusive Vs inclusive arguments. The other side is saying that RF noise due to charged particles is *always* accompanied by corona no matter what antenna configuration is used. I am saying it is not always accompanied by corona. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225787 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:10:36 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > John - KD5YI wrote: > >> No, Cecil, it seem that *you* misunderstand. My point was that you >> quote 100 uA/cm^2, and it takes very little current to achieve that >> with a tiny point. > > > How much current does it take to achieve when a tiny > point doesn't exist? Can a dipole made out of #8 wire > with rounded ends exhibit corona during receive? If not, > the other side loses the argument. Tiny points exist everywhere, all the time, whether you wish it or not. So, did you make any calculations? Did you even try to refute your own hypothesis? Have you looked at this from any other viewpoint? > I suggest you study exclusive Vs inclusive arguments. > The other side is saying that RF noise due to charged > particles is *always* accompanied by corona no matter > what antenna configuration is used. I am saying it is > not always accompanied by corona. Cecil, I am not going to study logic or psychology or philanthropy or anthropology or Malaysan Frog Worship or anything else you suggest just so I can understand your comments or arguments. You're input isn't worth it. It would seem to me that you should be able to present your thoughts so that people of my un-educatedness could understand. But, perhaps that is not what you want. Perhaps you feel it is better that you carry on your debate with those who are more deserving of your debating capabilities. So be it. John Article: 225788 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: All Band Coax-fed Dipole ?????????? Message-ID: References: <1151196343.440223.242020@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 01:22:36 GMT On 24 Jun 2006 17:45:43 -0700, tomk3mov@yahoo.com wrote: >The BuxComm Antenna Company sells what it calls an All Band Coax-fed >Dipole. > >http://www.commparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=114318&osCsid=a84f7ccef1c8c9d59effad91005875fb > > >It consists of 135 ft. of wire, a balun at the center feed point, and >the RG 8X coax transmission line. I don't claim to know a whole lot >about antennas, but this configuration is contrary to everything that I >have read about feeding mutiband antennas. When I wrote to the company >with a question about this, I received a response from K4ABT, Buck >Rogers himself. He attached to his note a section from the ARRL Antenna >Book, which seems to indicate that coax should not be used with this >type of antenna if one wants to use it as a multibander. I have a lot >of respect for Buck, based on his years of Elmering a lot of us through >his articles. But this one has me stumped. Any input will be >appreciated. It all goes to the meaning of "works". You will need to make your own mind up about what losses are acceptable. You should expect that the feedpoint impedance of that antenna at resonance around 7MHz is about 4200 ohms. The loss in 25m (~75') of RG8X will be about 8.3dB, or about 15% of your transmitter power reaches the balun. If you used a quarter wave of RG8X, the worst case line loss is around 0.7dB (or about 15%) per meter near the transmitter, that indicates 60W/m dissipation in that region at the 400W continuous power rating. I doubt that RG8X is suited to this antenna on 7MHz at 400W continuous, but with the lower average power level of voice SSB, it should not be an issue. The balun power rating and losses are another issue with this load impedance, but in the absence of detail on the balun design, I will say not more than more information needed! There was an article in QST some time back visiting the issues with multiband operation of a dipole with coax feed. The article was centred around a 66' dipole, but the lessons apply to your prospective purchase. I wrote an article at http://www.vk1od.net/LOLL/index.htm reviewing the QST article, there are links to the original article and some other relevant articles at the bottom of mine. Owen PS: Nothing here is to suggest you wont get QSOs. -- Article: 225789 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Noise level between two ant types References: <8563-44989859-996@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <6Qymg.71233$4L1.62783@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <_tYmg.2350$Yk.1437@trnddc06> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:11:47 GMT John - KD5YI wrote: > Tiny points exist everywhere, all the time, whether you wish it or not. White cars exist everywhere, all the time, whether one wishes it or not, yet not all cars are white. To maintain that all cars are white when at least one is red is not logical. > Cecil, I am not going to study logic ... You should at least study enough of it to get by in this world. The truth is, not all cars are white. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225790 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: All Band Coax-fed Dipole ?????????? References: <1151196343.440223.242020@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:19:22 GMT tomk3mov@yahoo.com wrote: > The BuxComm Antenna Company sells what it calls an All Band Coax-fed > Dipole. > > http://www.commparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=114318&osCsid=a84f7ccef1c8c9d59effad91005875fb When I clicked on it, it said "product not found". -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 225791 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: All Band Coax-fed Dipole ?????????? Message-ID: References: <1151196343.440223.242020@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:45:07 GMT On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:19:43 -0400, Dave wrote: >I get product not found!! > It is probably one of those clever bits of web technology that use dynamic URLs so that they can't be passed on or linked (probably to frustrate discussion like this)! Search for 8010ABD100 on their home page. Owen >Is the URL complete? > >tomk3mov@yahoo.com wrote: >> The BuxComm Antenna Company sells what it calls an All Band Coax-fed >> Dipole. >> >> http://www.commparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=114318&osCsid=a84f7ccef1c8c9d59effad91005875fb >> >> >> It consists of 135 ft. of wire, a balun at the center feed point, and >> the RG 8X coax transmission line. I don't claim to know a whole lot >> about antennas, but this configuration is contrary to everything that I >> have read about feeding mutiband antennas. When I wrote to the company >> with a question about this, I received a response from K4ABT, Buck >> Rogers himself. He attached to his note a section from the ARRL Antenna >> Book, which seems to indicate that coax should not be used with this >> type of antenna if one wants to use it as a multibander. I have a lot >> of respect for Buck, based on his years of Elmering a lot of us through >> his articles. But this one has me stumped. Any input will be >> appreciated. >> -- Article: 225792 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <1151144022.537224.263570@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1151197221.491935.82790@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Magloop and ground mat blues..... Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 03:39:28 GMT wrote in message news:1151197221.491935.82790@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Lee wrote: > > Oh, the regular circular shape 10`x 0.625" tube with a `T` shaped frame > > support and motor driven cap........ > > > I assume the tubing is very well connected at the joints? Copper tube? Yes! > What type of capacitor? How are the connections made? Variable airspaced 12-14kv rotary supplied as a kit by local radio company --£18.50p--- > Turning the loop horizontal won't help unless you can get it up 1/4 > to1/2 wave or more. I already said that! :-) > Close to earth you are better off with vertical, and the mat will help > efficiency although it is pretty deep for higher bands. !!!.... > 73 Tom > Thanks Tom. 73. Lee....de G6ZSG..... Article: 225793 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: Subject: Re: Magloop and ground mat blues..... Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 03:52:25 GMT "Dan Andersson" wrote in message news:YuicnXDjXPsKTADZSa8jmw@karoo.co.uk... > Lee wrote: > Lee......G6ZSG..... > > > Lee, > > Try mounting your loop horizontally instead. Look at the MFJ mag loop. Can`t afford the MJF on a pension besides for £50, mine works as well as the MJF probably better as i use copper tube, MJF use aluminium!! and mine was £350 cheaper......... Thought about horizontal and high but the neighbours object altho` my tower has been there before they moved in.......keeping the peace i suppose!!. > By doing so, you will have a significantly lower pattern of radiation from > your loop. You can also use a remotecontrolled LC network to change > directivity of the mag loop without a rotor. However, it's simpler with a > rotor. Yes, once again it`s the height. > To avoid skewed directivity from your loop, you can feed it with a balanced, > dual gamma match. Combined with a RF trafo with a centre tap on the > secondary side ( antenna side ) connected to the zero point at the loop, > you get a more equal pattern of radiation. I`m currently feeding with a faraday loop..... > Don't bother increasing the mount unless you have electrically conductive > objects nearby. A loop does not need a groundplane. That`s what i thought. > As long as you can remotely tune and direct your mag loop, you actually have > a rather good antenna. Don't listen to much to these who have acres of land > and no neighbours but have fun making QSO's instead! Thanks. Lee.....G6ZSG..... > > Cheers > > Dan / M0DFI