Article: 228034 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" Subject: how many forum members to change a lightbulb? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 04:42:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET> How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the light bulb and 1 to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 53 to flame the spell checkers 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct 156 to email the participant's ISPs complaining that they are in violation of their "acceptable use policy" 109 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum 203 to demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic forum, and lightbulb forum about changing light bulbs be stopped 111 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group 33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too" 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three" 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?" 143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs" 1 new forum member to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again Article: 228035 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:46:48 +0100 Message-ID: The self-capacitance of a multi-turn solenoid has little to do with spacing between turns. Self-c depends on coil length and diameter. The self-capacitances between adjacent turns are all in series with each other. Resulting capacitance across coil is negligible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A coil 6.6" long, 6" diameter, 26.5 turns, has L = 68 uH, Q = 500 at 3.8 MHz, and self-resonant frequency = 9 MHz. ---- Reg. Article: 228036 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Brian Howie Subject: Re: how many forum members to change a lightbulb? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:56:03 +0100 Message-ID: References: <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET> In message <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET>, Fred Hambrecht writes >How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? Add another one one to post a link to e-bay " one light bulb, slightly used " Brian -- Brian Howie Article: 228037 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:34:35 GMT Walter Maxwell wrote: > Cecil, I suggest you re-measure the self-resonant frequency of the coil by > itself, and if you have the means to do it, also measure the series resistance > at both the self-resonant frequency and at 4.0 MHz. I'm betting there will be a > large difference in the resistances, and that the self-resonant frequency will > be much greater than 6.6 MHz. I'm not sure how to measure the 1/4WL self-resonant frequency with an MFJ-259B without a ground plane. I suppose it could be done using a 1/4WL counterpoise in free space. Let me just report what the MFJ-259B readings are with the isolated 75m Texas Bugcatcher coil across the MFJ-259B terminals. The first dip in impedance is at 14.7 MHz where the MFJ reads 620+j0 ohms. The second dip in impedance is at 24.4 MHz where the MFJ reads 88+j0 ohms. Is the first dip the 1/4WL self- resonant point and the second dip the 1/2WL self-resonant point? I want to make it clear that the previously reported 6.6 MHz self-resonant measurement was made with the base-loaded coil mounted a few inches away from my GMC pickup ground plane. The ground plane was no doubt in the field of the coil at the bottom end so the coil was certainly not isolated as it is in the above reported measurements. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228038 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44DEADA7.5010806@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:39:42 GMT jawod wrote: > If you are confident in your intelligence, why do you need validation? In my case, my wife's best friend's husband, who was a member of MENSA, made a bet with me that I couldn't qualify for MENSA. If I won, he would pay for the exam and my first year's dues. If I lost, I was out the cost of the exam and dinner for 4. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228039 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tam/WB2TT" References: <1155427993.365527.265200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: 2 Meter Beam Element Question Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 08:41:11 -0400 Message-ID: "N3" wrote in message news:1155427993.365527.265200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Which is more practical? > Driven element with two directors or reflector, driven element, > director. > Neither one is worth building at 2 meters. A 5 element beam with a reflector, driven element. and 3 directors could be built on a 4 - 5 foot boom. Tam/WB2TT Article: 228040 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: <9lFDg.12164$gY6.9269@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:57:41 GMT L. wrote: > Mensa - who gives a damned? Some of the same people who give a damn about the definition of words. > Most of the "brilliant" people I've ever met - > had their thumbs up their ass when it came to doing the basic things in > life - they can't do them. What the hell good is a "brilliant" person if > they're too stupid to know how or lazy to do "basic" things? If having a > Mensa number means you're bankrupt in common sense or "lazy", I'd rather not > be a member - thank you. This is one of the best examples of sour grapes that I have ever seen. > This is funny as all hell....... some shmuck "claiming" to be a "genious" > coming in here and trying to make the rest of us seem inferior to him. Exactly as you are trying to use your Morse code skill to make nocode techs feel inferior to you "real hams". (Incidentally, what good is Morse code skill when one can't even spell "genius"?) > No one is any better than the rest of us. Strange words from a man who has been pounding his chest because knowing Morse code makes him so superior. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228041 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1153584132.692529.177920@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0ro4c2d13dq9i23ab98uiiql3spgmhfi22@4ax.com> <1153597502.509378.294260@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <44DEAAAA.7030203@fuse.net> <44ded225$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:06:48 GMT L. wrote: > I don't know if there is actually any truth to this BUT - the dumbing down > "allegedly" started back in Reagan's day or was it George Srs? - when > someone here in the U.S. apparently couldn't pass the exam - and being he > was in good relations with the then King of Jordan, the King of Jordan asked > Reagan or Bush Sr to do something to help out. I've heard that story a few > times. True or not - the tests have changed drastically. If I remember correctly, the incident had nothing to do with dumbing down technical issues. It was all about the outdated Morse code testing requirement which a lot of countries have indeed dropped. > The tests really (in my opinion) aren't meant to "teach" anything or shall > we say - show any "in depth proficiency". Of course not. They are entrance exams, not university degrees. > They're merely meant to get you in the door - period. Exactly! That is their entire purpose. They open the door to a lifetime of learning. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228042 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:19:32 GMT Olie wrote: > Obviously the person claiming to be a Mensa member has poked a figurative > finger into your soft spot. Sensitive, are you? Taking umbrage? Apparently > you feel that the alleged Mensa member has slighted you either directly or > indirectly, ergo your lengthy and uncalled-for diatribe. > Of course, in your self-righteous response you probably did not consider the > possibility that the "Mensa" person was a troll. Makes no difference, does > it? He certainly set you off on a rant. I give him five stars for that. My reporting my MENSA membership is usually a troll aimed at someone who feels himself to be superior to everyone else for some obscure reason, e.g. Morse code skill. Note that not only is a lack of Morse code skill belittled but MENSA membership is also belittled. In fact, any difference from the attitudes and attrubutes of the poster will be belittled. Even correct definitions of words have been belittled. Truth is, I got into MENSA because someone lost a bet and paid for my exam and dues. I am not presently a member of MENSA because the yearly dues exceed my threshold of pain. But I am a member of OOTC and FISTS, #8741. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228043 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DF2785.4070200@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:22:13 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> > > There's a difference between memorizing a formula or method and memorizing > specific answers to specific questions. The former is called learning, and > can be applied to many situations. The latter is called laziness, and > teaches nothing that can be used for any other purpose. > I don't view testing in this regard as a form of teaching. The goal, as someone posted, is to "get in the door". What's wrong with that? Memorizing precise answers and not processes is lazy, I guess. However, following ARRL testing manuals, you HAVE to learn the processes. Deep understanding of all principles involved will gain you an educational degree. That's not the intent of FCC testing. It's a hobby! Get in the door and have fun. John AB8O Article: 228044 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:25:20 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> > > > In the example YOU give - Cecil - it could be taken either way. In the case > of the "frequencies" you're to operate on for a given license and band - > YES - you could simply "memorize" (not really commit to memory) those > frequencies - for the exam purposes and just refer to a chart from there in. > OR you COULD "memorize" them (actually committing to memory) for the purpose > of NOT having to use a chart! However, once you use those frequencies after > a while - especially if active - then you "would" tend to "memorize" (for > life) those frequencies. Yes, it is definately splitting hairs! > > L. > > that makes no sense. to memorize is to commit to memory, by definition. Article: 228045 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> Message-ID: <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:28:37 GMT Reg Edwards wrote: > A coil 6.6" long, 6" diameter, 26.5 turns, has L = 68 uH, Q = 500 at > 3.8 MHz, and self-resonant frequency = 9 MHz. Wouldn't mounting the coil four inches above a GMC pickup ground plane reduce the Q and the self-resonant frequency? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228046 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DF295E.6070201@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:30:06 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would Ham Radio References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <_KkDg.7649$Oh1.1995@news01.roc.ny> <1155412192.574567.251920@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: Steve Stone on Sat, Aug 12 2006 6:31 am > Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, > rec.radio.scanner, > > rec.radio.swap > > > >>Ham radio is gonna be flushed big time if this is all you old farts are >>worried about. > > > Steve, you may be quite right! > > There is NO expression from these federally-authorized morsemen > of amateur radio being a HOBBY. [it is a "service" to the > country or something para-military...and "hobby" is not in the > Rules (except by definition)] Indeed, they bristle and come > unglued at the slightest negativism of their mighty endeavors of > "professional amateurism" with all its rank, status, and glory. > Ham radio can't be just "fun" for its own sake, an enjoyable > pastime, something done for personal pleasure. No, one has to > enjoy ONLY Their views, like what they like, or suffer the > consequences of being considered "lower caste" on par with > river-bottom slime. > > These mighty macho morsemen demand OBEDIANCE to their views and > opinions, are quick to call disbelievers any name they choose, > always denigrative, condescending, with heavy overtones of > attempted humiliation. They are the unforgiving in regards to > anyone NOT worshiping their status, rank, titles in amateurism. > Unforgiving to the point of attacking ANYONE against them. > They RULE. [they think...but only in here...] > > While these mighty macho morsemen take out their frustrations, > resentments, anger against all not idolizing their opinions, > there are some actual amateur radio issues which need addressing. > The removal or continuation of the morse code test for US amateur > radio license testing is still in limbo; official Comment period > on the NPRM was over late last year. Access BPL recently had a > rules revision/addendum added by the FCC with a Report and Order > released on 7 August 2006. No one in here apparently cares about > it since the "ARRL is on the job," "fighting" to keep HF "safe" > (for their membership?). [ho, ho, some "fight"...] > > No one cares to discuss two BIG issues. Everyone is busy, busy, > trying to insult anyone who doesn't subscribe to Their views. > Ain't no "discussion" here, hasn't been for years. Internecine > personal warfare is the order of the day. Everyone in here > either obeys the rulings of Big Brother in Newington or > they are considered lower forms of (barely) life. > > The number of US amateur radio licensees is slowly dropping > (expirations greater than new licensees to the tune of 10K > in three years). Membership in the ARRL (the "representative" > of all, according to them) has never been more than a quarter > of all US licensees. Technician class licensees are very > very close to being a full half of all classes (49.07% of all > individual licensees as of 12 Aug 06). > > Lettuce all bow our heads and worship morsemanship...these > are the salad days of the brass-pounders. Morse is the answer > to everything I'm told. [over and over again] :-) > > Beep, beep... > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > JOIN us. Article: 228047 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:02:03 +0100 Message-ID: "Cecil Moore" wrote > Reg Edwards wrote: > > A coil 6.6" long, 6" diameter, 26.5 turns, has L = 68 uH, Q = 500 at > > 3.8 MHz, and self-resonant frequency = 9 MHz. > > Wouldn't mounting the coil four inches above a GMC pickup > ground plane reduce the Q and the self-resonant frequency? > -- ====================================== Cec, Very likely. But not very much. It would not be the self-resonant frequency any more. The srf never changes. And neither does the intrinsic coil Q. We must be careful with our descriptions. Slackness leads to misunderstandings, arguments and fights. ---- Reg Article: 228048 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:07:20 +0200 From: Dominique Michel Subject: Re: Receiving Loop Message-ID: <20060813160720.59a4424c@localhost> References: <1155400389.854352.27800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Le 12 Aug 2006 14:59:50 -0700, "K7ITM" a écrit : > You can find quite a bit of discussion about small loops if you search > the archives of this group. That, however, may confuse you because > some folk seem intent on making absolute statements about things they > don't really understand. Reputable books will tell you that the > "shield" is actually the antenna, and to gain the advantage of > rejection of local predominantly e-field noise, you must make the loop > very symmetrical. I know that Jasick's Antenna Engineering book has a > good chapter on loops, and King, Mimno and Wing's "Transmission Lines, > Antennas and Waveguides" has a good qualitative discussion of them. > There are various programs out there to help you determine the > performance of small receiving loops. I've found one on Reg Edwards' > web page to be useful. > > Cheers, > Tom > The Balanis have an extended chapter on loops, but nothing on shielded loop. But it is a very interesting reading in all cases, as well as other books too. > John wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I am new to the group and have a question. > > > > Does anyone know a good source of information on small (less than > > .1wl), shielded (coax) magnetic loops? In particular, I would like to > > know design equations (are ON4UN's formulae correct and complete?). Why > > do most people use RG-59 rather than a thicker coax (shielding, C/ft?)? > > Why is 20' for 160 meters the norm? Discarding mechanical > > considerations, wouldn't thicker coax provide greater efficiency? > > I think at it is because RG-59 is cheaper. The parasitic capacitance don't have a big impact on a small loop because you will have to use an additional capacitor to get the antenna to resonate on the frequency you want to receive. Cheers, Dominique > > I found ON4UN's book lacking on this antenna. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > John, N9RF > Article: 228049 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <1155400389.854352.27800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Receiving Loop Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:51:41 +0100 Message-ID: <0bednXmH5O63oELZRVnygw@bt.com> Shielded loops are needed only when a small loop is used for direction-finding purposes. It is then an angle-measuring instrument. Shields serve no useful purpose on ordinary receiving and transmitting loops. They reduce efficiency. All that is needed is a bare loop conductor. For multi-turn receiving loops download program RJELOOP3 For transmitting magloops download program MAGLOOP4 from website below. Download in a few seconds and run immediately. ---- ........................................................... Regards from Reg, G4FGQ For Free Radio Design Software go to http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp ........................................................... Article: 228050 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:03:35 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <44DEAAAA.7030203@fuse.net> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:29:30 -0400, jawod wrote: >Cecil Moore wrote: >> user@private-mail-domain.invalid wrote: >> >>> It used to be that there weren't a set of questions with >>> corresponding answers - there was a syllabus from which the questions >>> were set. It took understanding of the syllabus to apply the formulae >>> that had been learnt to calculate the answer. >> >> >> It is true that the 1950's License Manuals were not multiple >> choice but the exams were. The License Manuals went like this: >> >> Q: What is the unit of electrical resistance? >> >> A: The unit of electrical resistance is the ohm. >> >> The exam then had multiple choices, one of them being "ohm". >> >> It is hard to understand how anyone could develop that correct >> answer from first principles or formulas. I memorized the >> correct answer and it still exists in my memory as something >> I once memorized long before I ever knew there was a man named >> Ohm after whom the unit of electrical resistance was named. >> >> The difference between memorizing the question pool answers >> from the 1950's License Manuals and memorizing the question >> pool answers of today is just splitting hairs. I used exactly >> the same memorizing techniques to ace the Extra exam in >> 2000 as I did to pass the Conditional exam in 1953. >Here here (!) >Cecil, I'm happy to agree with you. > >Modern testing techniques are intended to be transparent. This is true >for FCC exams, Postal exams, any and all government qualification exams. >(And because of this, all qualifying exams in the private sector, as >well.) Indeed part this is so we the people (ham and nonham alike ) may be assured of fair testing and fair grading. Short answer qoul d make for better ttests if you could that they would be fairly graded > >It took a lot of litigation to get there. Government agencies had to >prove that their qualifying exams were directly linked to the specific >tasks required of the given position for which the individual was applying. I would correct amend your statment to it took a lot of ligtigation, threats of ligation and Law but that is mostly quibbling > >A Postal Carrier needn't know Pythagorus' theorum to deliver the mail. >I took the Postal Carrier exam 35 years ago and did not do well. I >wasn't good at sorting on a timed basis. > >This notion of a "cheapening" of FCC requirements because the question >pool is open to the public is a red herring: transparency is the rule. >If you look at the question pool and study it, you will gain the >necessary expertise to pass the exam. This is not cheating, nor is it >short-circuiting the "REAL" ham radio "requirements" that some view as >sacrosanct. indeed well said > >I used ARRL manuals to pass the Extra Exam and I do not defer to anyone >in this regard. Does this make me a ham radio genius? Not AT ALL. Man, >I have SO MUCH to learn. This newsgroup is "potentially" very helpful! >For that, I give thanks. > >You know, I love ham radio. I'm happy so many join the ranks each year. >If there still is a concern out there, be an Elmer and address it. > >John >AB8O (yeah, I changed my call) http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228051 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: how many forum members to change a lightbulb? Message-ID: References: <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:06:49 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 04:42:47 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" wrote: >How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? > Right on, Fred! Seems that once in a while something like that occurs in threads appearing on this NG. Walt, W2DU Article: 228052 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DF4249.1080807@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:16:25 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> an old friend wrote: > Al Klein wrote: > >>On 12 Aug 2006 10:10:55 -0700, "an old friend" >>wrote: >> >> >>>at some level all you can do a merorize >> >>The discussion isn't about WHETHER you memorize, it's about WHAT you >>memorize. > > that is a chnge in tune > > oncce you accpet that much of the testing involves memizztion the > question then comes down to where is your beef? > if it is that today we then to use multiguess questions pools verus > short answer of bygone day you likely out of luck the extra cost is not > going to be supported within the present system > > I agree short answer would be an improvement over multible guess but > teks you issue up with other don't imply that the ams that have taken > and passed the required tetst have not done what is required > > you tread awfully close to libel there AL ask an lawyer if you don't > believe me > I am sorry, but do you type with your feet? Anyway,, Back in the old days, we used to walk 5 miles in the snow to the FCC field office to take our exams. We had to kneel on radiators while we took the test. We used slide rules and crayons AND WE LIKED IT!!! Then we'd wait 3 years to receive our license which gave us time to teach electrons to enter and exit all the tubes...stupid little buggers, those. Boy, those were the days. When a ham was a ham, brass was for pounding and AM signals were as wide as the day is long. These "young" whippersnappers get off too easy. I say, rank priveleges on the basis of how big an RF burn you can take, or on the basis of personal weight. I may have said it before: take the FCC out of it completely and go with the FDA. Those boys know how to grade. (Too much tea this morning!) John AB8O Article: 228053 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:24:41 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Bill Turner wrote: > >> You restated what I said in much more detail, but what you have done >> is expounded on the "what". I still don't know the "how" or the "why". > > > The Smith Chart yields the "how". Please take the "why" > up with The Creator. :-) Cecil --- you are begging the question!! I reported that the addition of 3 or 4 inches above the coil produces a much larger shift in frequency than adding the exact same length below the coil [by almost a factor of 100:1]. That is empirical data. It is real and measurable. My question is one of Physics. I think everyone who reads this list knows it happens. The real question is: Why?? Why the difference in antenna resonant frequency? Article: 228054 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:25:40 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Moving again... have to make a new antenna (sigh) References: <1155429052.626794.225160@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote: > All, > > My family is having to move again.... The place I am moving to is on > the edge > of a circular trailer part, surrounded by a metal fence about 1 mile in > circumference. > > On the other side of the fence is an effectively infinite backlot > studded with > 6 to 9 foot mesquite trees. > > This time I am not allowed to get the antenna up any higher than the > fence or > the mesquite trees. However, length is a definite possibility? > > Any suggestions for making the most of this situation for low-angle DX > on 40 or 20? > > Thanks in advance, > > The Eternal Squire > Beverage? Article: 228055 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 08:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1155483361.447706.281300@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: jawod wrote: > an old friend wrote: > > Al Klein wrote: > > > >>On 12 Aug 2006 10:10:55 -0700, "an old friend" > >>wrote: > > you tread awfully close to libel there AL ask an lawyer if you don't > > believe me > > > I am sorry, but do you type with your feet? > > Anyway,, > Back in the old days, we used to walk 5 miles in the snow to the FCC > field office to take our exams. We had to kneel on radiators while we > took the test. We used slide rules and crayons AND WE LIKED IT!!! > > Then we'd wait 3 years to receive our license which gave us time to > teach electrons to enter and exit all the tubes...stupid little buggers, > those. > > Boy, those were the days. When a ham was a ham, brass was for pounding > and AM signals were as wide as the day is long. > > These "young" whippersnappers get off too easy. > > I say, rank priveleges on the basis of how big an RF burn you can take, > or on the basis of personal weight. > > I may have said it before: take the FCC out of it completely and go with > the FDA. Those boys know how to grade. > > (Too much tea this morning!) I avoid answering question from that admit to using too much of any drug legal or or not > > John > AB8O Article: 228056 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: notmeman Subject: Re: FS: DX ENGINEERING BALUN Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:44:49 -0500 Message-ID: <87iud2l32uc5qr9r037u9db692gj7bcuhp@4ax.com> References: FS: DX ENGINEERING BALUN MODEL DXW-BAL600-H10-A 12:1 high power, rated for 5 kw continuous, 10 kw intermittent, easily handles full-limit AM or SSB. 1.8-30 Mhz, suitable for wide spaced 600 ohm open wire feeders. Like new, used approx. 6 months, installed indoors, has never been out in the elements. See http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=97&PLID=50&SecID=10&DeptID=33&PartNo=DXE%2DBAL600%2DH10%2DA for detailed specs and photo. $125 includes shipping anywhere in continental USA. Contact me direct k0dan at arrl dot net Article: 228057 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Moving again... have to make a new antenna (sigh) From: Dave Oldridge References: <1155429052.626794.225160@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:03:52 GMT eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote in news:1155429052.626794.225160 @h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: > All, > > My family is having to move again.... The place I am moving to is on > the edge > of a circular trailer part, surrounded by a metal fence about 1 mile in > circumference. > > On the other side of the fence is an effectively infinite backlot > studded with > 6 to 9 foot mesquite trees. > > This time I am not allowed to get the antenna up any higher than the > fence or > the mesquite trees. However, length is a definite possibility? > > Any suggestions for making the most of this situation for low-angle DX > on 40 or 20? If you can get radials down a shortened, center or top-loaded vertical or array of them might be your best bet. Use a (physically) large, high-Q coil for best efficiency. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228058 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Receiving Loop From: Dave Oldridge References: <1155400389.854352.27800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:09:45 GMT "John" wrote in news:1155400389.854352.27800 @p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: > Hello all, > > I am new to the group and have a question. > > Does anyone know a good source of information on small (less than > .1wl), shielded (coax) magnetic loops? In particular, I would like to > know design equations (are ON4UN's formulae correct and complete?). Why > do most people use RG-59 rather than a thicker coax (shielding, C/ft?)? > Why is 20' for 160 meters the norm? Discarding mechanical > considerations, wouldn't thicker coax provide greater efficiency? In a receiving antenna, efficiency is not as important as in a transmitting antenna, especially on 160 and 80m where the noise floor is usually far louder than the receiver's front end. A little antenna attenuation may actually HELP with intermod distortion and other receiver problems. I've made working loops for both bands from LMR400 that can actually be hung out and used for transmitting. They are about 4 feet in diameter and performance is so-so, but they work. I used the internal capacitance of the coax to resonate them (a lot of cut and test with the analyzer) and matched them with a large gimmick capacitor of flat phone wire wound onto the loop near the feedpoint. Look up Ted Hart's small loop design. Mine are similar, only I did two turns for the 160 loop (it's actually physically smaller than the 80m loop by a bit). -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228059 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "w8ji@akorn.net" Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. Date: 13 Aug 2006 10:14:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1155489245.688464.86450@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> Dave wrote: > I reported that the addition of 3 or 4 inches above the coil produces a much > larger shift in frequency than adding the exact same length below the coil [by > almost a factor of 100:1]. That is empirical data. It is real and measurable. > > My question is one of Physics. I think everyone who reads this list knows it > happens. The real question is: Why?? Why the difference in antenna resonant > frequency? Dave, Any antenna is a large network of distributed impedances. You have series inductance in every conductor and capacitance to the outside world. There is also some series resistance and even shunting losses in dielectrics, but looking at the reactances is good enough to answer your question. Look at what we have in the short mobile antenna. Below the loading coil we have a conductor that carries an almost uniform current, voltage and current are nearly in phase throughout the entire length. We have the loading coil that adds a high value of series reactance all in one spot. Above the loading coil we have an area with very high power factor. The current and voltage are nearly 90 degrees out of phase and voltage is very high. When we perturb the system below the coil, it isn't terribly sensitive to changes in capacitance because voltage is so low. The top of the mast below the coil is terminated in a fairly low impedance so it isn't sensitive to shunt capacitance and the additional series inductance added by the small additional length is very small compared to the system's overall reactance and electrical length at that point. Above the coil it is another story. Now we have very high voltage (it can still have almost the same current above as below the coil if the antenna is a good design). The coil is terminated in a very high value of reactance that is mostly comprised of the distributed reactance of the small whip, and that is mostly capacitive reactance of a very high impedance. Altering the whip length or diameter above the coil greatly changes the system resonance because the small value (very high reactance) of the whip is what actually resonates or terminates the coil. The loading coil and the capacitance above the coil form a series resonant circuit. The area above the coil has very high impedance, very high power factor, and as such is very sensitive to any additional shunting impedance caused by additional length or diameter. The area below the loading coil has almost unity power factor, has low impedance, and has much lower levels of electric field so it isn't nearly as sensitve to shunt impedance (distributed capacitance) changes. 73 Tom Article: 228060 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. From: Dave Oldridge References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:16:35 GMT Dave wrote in news:pamdnedye9uq2ULZnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@comcast.com: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Bill Turner wrote: >> >>> You restated what I said in much more detail, but what you have done >>> is expounded on the "what". I still don't know the "how" or the >>> "why". >> >> >> The Smith Chart yields the "how". Please take the "why" >> up with The Creator. :-) > > Cecil --- you are begging the question!! > > I reported that the addition of 3 or 4 inches above the coil produces > a much larger shift in frequency than adding the exact same length > below the coil [by almost a factor of 100:1]. That is empirical data. > It is real and measurable. > > My question is one of Physics. I think everyone who reads this list > knows it happens. The real question is: Why?? Why the difference in > antenna resonant frequency? Let me try. If you look at the antenna as a set of lumped circuit bits, the lower mast portion is mostly just a wire with radiation losses. The coil and stinger form a series resonant circuit back to ground, thus a small change in either will result in a different resonant frequency. The antenna only presents a low, resistive load, at resonance, so changing the stinger length (thus varying the capacitance to ground) changes the resonance rapidly. Changing the length of the high-current lossy feeder pipe below the coil does little, though it will increase efficiency if you make it as tall as possible. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228061 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "w8ji@akorn.net" Subject: Re: Receiving Loop Date: 13 Aug 2006 10:16:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1155489407.045483.102100@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1155400389.854352.27800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> John wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to the group and have a question. > > Does anyone know a good source of information on small (less than > .1wl), shielded (coax) magnetic loops? In particular, I would like to > know design equations (are ON4UN's formulae correct and complete?). Why > do most people use RG-59 rather than a thicker coax (shielding, C/ft?)? > Why is 20' for 160 meters the norm? Discarding mechanical > considerations, wouldn't thicker coax provide greater efficiency? > > I found ON4UN's book lacking on this antenna. > > Thanks in advance, > John, N9RF Try reading this John http://www.w8ji.com/magnetic_receiving_loops.htm 73 Tom Article: 228062 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:35:11 GMT Reg Edwards wrote: > It would not be the self-resonant frequency any more. The srf never > changes. And neither does the intrinsic coil Q. So what would you call the frequency at which a coil alone is resonant when mounted as a base-loading coil over a ground plane? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228063 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Message-ID: References: <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:00:53 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:02:03 +0100, "Reg Edwards" wrote: > >"Cecil Moore" wrote >> Reg Edwards wrote: >> > A coil 6.6" long, 6" diameter, 26.5 turns, has L = 68 uH, Q = 500 >at >> > 3.8 MHz, and self-resonant frequency = 9 MHz. >> >> Wouldn't mounting the coil four inches above a GMC pickup >> ground plane reduce the Q and the self-resonant frequency? >> -- >====================================== >Cec, > >Very likely. But not very much. > >It would not be the self-resonant frequency any more. The srf never >changes. And neither does the intrinsic coil Q. > >We must be careful with our descriptions. Slackness leads to >misunderstandings, arguments and fights. >---- >Reg > Reg, I had never given much thought to the series relationship of the capacitance between turns. I had always considered them as being in parallel, thus the honeycomb, or the basket-weave configurations to minimize the interturn capacitance. Have I misconstrued the purpose of those configurations? Do I also understand you correctly that with a specified length of the solenoid, and a given diameter, the total interturn capacitance is independent of the number of turns, because the capacitance between turns adds in series to the same value regardless of the number of turns? Please educate me. Walt Article: 228064 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:28:16 GMT Dave Oldridge wrote: >> My question is one of Physics. Lest anyone think I have invented something new, I'm sure Walter Maxwell was doing these sorts of Smith Chart calculations while I was in high school. Given the following 1/4WL resonant stub with Z01 = 600 ohms and Z02 = 4000 ohms: Source----Z01A----x----Z02----y----Z01B----open Boundary conditions are: The feedlines are lossless. The source sees zero ohms. The Z01A length is 45 degrees. The Z02 length is 45 degrees. How long is the Z01B length? This is a problem easily solved by using the outside circles of two Smith Charts, one normalized for 600 ohms and the other normalized for 4000 ohms. The procedure is: Assuming the source is seeing zero ohms, calculate the impedance at 'x'. Plot that impedance on a Z02 Smith Chart. Calculate the impedance at point 'y' of the Z02 length. Plot that impedance on the first Smith Chart and see how long Z01B needs to be to reach to infinity. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228065 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Message-ID: References: <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:36:26 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:34:35 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Walter Maxwell wrote: >> Cecil, I suggest you re-measure the self-resonant frequency of the coil by >> itself, and if you have the means to do it, also measure the series resistance >> at both the self-resonant frequency and at 4.0 MHz. I'm betting there will be a >> large difference in the resistances, and that the self-resonant frequency will >> be much greater than 6.6 MHz. > >I'm not sure how to measure the 1/4WL self-resonant frequency >with an MFJ-259B without a ground plane. I suppose it could be >done using a 1/4WL counterpoise in free space. Let me just >report what the MFJ-259B readings are with the isolated 75m >Texas Bugcatcher coil across the MFJ-259B terminals. > >The first dip in impedance is at 14.7 MHz where the MFJ reads >620+j0 ohms. The second dip in impedance is at 24.4 MHz where >the MFJ reads 88+j0 ohms. Is the first dip the 1/4WL self- >resonant point and the second dip the 1/2WL self-resonant point? > >I want to make it clear that the previously reported 6.6 MHz >self-resonant measurement was made with the base-loaded coil >mounted a few inches away from my GMC pickup ground plane. The >ground plane was no doubt in the field of the coil at the bottom >end so the coil was certainly not isolated as it is in the above >reported measurements. Cecil, I measured the self-resonant frequency of the loading coils with a Measurements 59 grid dip osc with the coil mounted away from all metallic objects. The Webster KW-80 coil that measured 14 MHz for the self-resonant frequency, and 8 ohms resistance at 4.0 MHz, as I remember it from several years ago, was about 3" in diameter and around 7 to 8" long. I don't recall now how I measured the Q, but it was close to 400. I measured the resistance with a GR-1606A RF bridge. If you have a GDO I suggest you remeasure the self-resonant frequency, and then measure the resistance at that frequency with the MFJ 259, and then again at 4.0 MHz. From that data you'll be able to determine the actual Q. Seems like it should be around 500, as Reg calculated. But like I said earlier, I believe the self-resonant frequency of your 6" bugcatcher will be greater than 9 MHz. Walt, W2DU Article: 228066 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:40:21 +0100 Message-ID: "Cecil Moore" wrote > So what would you call the frequency at which a coil alone > is resonant when mounted as a base-loading coil over a > ground plane? ================================= Cec, I would call it the frequency at which the coil alone is resonant when mounted as a base-loading coil over a ground plane. It would depend on whether the ground plane was a bicycle or the deck of a super-tanker. ----- Reg. Article: 228067 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ed Bailen Subject: dB Products-Type Antenna Identification Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:50:39 -0500 Message-ID: <4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com> Among the stuff my neighbor left behind when moved out were two antennas. Each looks like a dBProducts 4-bay VHF array. Can anyone tell me how I can tell from the measurements what frequency these might be designed for? Also, is is possible to change the resonant frequency on this type of folded-dipole antenna? Thanks, Ed - N5KZW Article: 228068 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: dB Products-Type Antenna Identification References: <4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:18:44 GMT Try search under ANDREW, or Decibel Products. sounds like you have the 222 series (4 folded dipoles stacked either in the same plane, or in 4 different directions. Tho doubtful that you can change resonant freq, most likely with what you have will be entirely adiquate for a band, even 10-20 MHz from its design frequency (these are fairly broadband devices. As info, Jim NN7K Ed Bailen wrote: > Among the stuff my neighbor left behind when moved out were two > antennas. Each looks like a dBProducts 4-bay VHF array. Can anyone > tell me how I can tell from the measurements what frequency these > might be designed for? Also, is is possible to change the resonant > frequency on this type of folded-dipole antenna? > > Thanks, > Ed - N5KZW Article: 228069 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "g. beat" <@> References: <4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com> Subject: Re: dB Products - Type Antenna Identification Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:20:00 -0500 Message-ID: "Ed Bailen" wrote in message news:4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com... > Among the stuff my neighbor left behind when moved out were two > antennas. Each looks like a dB Products 4-bay VHF array. Can anyone > tell me how I can tell from the measurements what frequency these > might be designed for? Also, is possible to change the resonant > frequency on this type of folded-dipole antenna? > > Thanks, > Ed - N5KZW Decibel Products is famous for their DB-224's, a four bay folded dipole array for VHF hi-band (and the 2-meter ham band) and DB-420's, a 16 bay folded dipole array for UHF (also the 440 MHz ham band). Product catalog http://www.rollanet.org/~rrars/db224.pdf DB-224 Installation Instructions http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/db-224-instruction-sheet.pdf READ CONVERSION OF DB-224 antennas TO HAM BANDS AT BOTTOM Andrew Corporation has the product literature for Decibel Products (which they purchased) http://www.andrew.com/products/antennas/bsa/DB224-E.aspx http://www.andrew.com/products/antennas/bsa/default.aspx?lc=~/Controls/Collateral.ascx You can view products on the WISCO web page http://www.wiscointl.com/decibel/index.htm http://www.wiscointl.com/decibel/dipoles/db224.htm What are the measurements that you have? Possible candidate models (dB's 4-bay products) ASPA712 BASE ANTENNA - 4 Bay dipole VHF antenna, 150-160MHz, 6dB gain omni, 9dB directional, 500 watts. N male termination, 39lb, 22.67' long, truck shippable, hardware supplied. ASPB602 - 4 Bay VHF dipole antenna, 144-162MHz, 6dB gain omni, 9dB directional, 500 watts. N male termination, truck shippable, hardware supplied. DB224-x 4 element broadband VHF dipole antenna. 500 watts, 6dB omni, 9dB offset gain. Harness with N male termination and mounting hardware. place letter below in "x" suffix above "A" version - 150-160 MHz "B" version - 155-165 MHz "C" version - 164-174 MHz "E" version - 138-150 MHz "JJ" version - 220-222 MHz There is also a DB224E-x series (4 element elliptical broadband VHF dipole antenna with offset pattern) Reviews http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2083 Modify a 150-160 MHz DB-222 or DB-224 for the ham band -- http://www.w4dex.com/kc4fwc/modify.htm w9gb Article: 228070 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "g. beat" <@> References: <4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com> Subject: Re: dB Products-Type Antenna Identification Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:48:36 -0500 Message-ID: "Jim - NN7K" wrote in message news:EOLDg.591$q63.153@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > Try search under ANDREW, or Decibel Products. It sounds like you have the > 222 series (4 folded dipoles stacked either in the same plane, or in > 4 different directions. Though doubtful that you can change resonant > freq, most likely with what you have will be entirely adequate for a band, > even 10-20 MHz from its design frequency > these models are fairly broadband antennas. As info, Jim NN7K Modify a 150-160 MHz DB-222 or DB-224 for the 2-meter ham band usage (w/photos) -- http://www.w4dex.com/kc4fwc/modify.htm Article: 228071 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:50:06 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> <22KDg.6271$o27.5722@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> Cecil --- you are begging the question!! > > > Of course I am, nobody knows *why* things are the way they > are. There is no 'why' built into quantum mechanics. There > is only probability. Why does one photon wind up in an > inner interference ring and one wind up in an outer > interference ring? Nobody knows. > Methinks you have left the world of deterministic Physics and moved into Quantum Physics. Such comments do not contribute to the answer. You are not using Quantum mechanics to try to explain to me what is happening. You are using transmission line models. Stick to the transmission line model. I thought antenna EM Physics was deterministic. - - - - RE: your model. You stated: "Anything done below the coil affects the number of degrees subtracted >from the antenna by the bottom element to coil interface. Anything done to the stinger affects the number of degrees added to the antenna by the coil to stinger interface. For a given element delta length, the number-of-degrees-added effect is greater than the number- of-degrees-subtracted effect." The 4 inch spring is approximately 0.646 degrees long at 5.3 MHz. Original: Source-----Z01A-----+-----Z02-----+-----Z01B-----open Case #1: Source-----Z01A-----+-----Z02-----+-0.646-+-----Z01B-----open Case #2: Source-----Z01A-----+-0.646-+-----Z02-----+-----Z01B-----open Z01A has not changed. Z02 has not changed. Z01B has not changed. [The L/D ratios for these components have remained the same and the Zo of each element is therefore the same.] The physical characteristics of 0.646 have not changed. The Capacitance to the coil is the same in either case. Only the location has changed. Do you claim the complex impedance of 0.646[case 1] is different from the complex impedance of 0.646[case 2]. Why? Or, do you claim the net Z01B + 0.646[Case 1} is now electrically longer, in degrees, than Z01A + 0.646[case 2]. Why? Article: 228073 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Message-ID: References: <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <4ISdnRvCaL1vC0LZRVnyhw@bt.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:36:33 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:15:38 +0100, "Reg Edwards" wrote: > >"Walter Maxwell" wrote >> Reg, I had never given much thought to the series relationship of >the >> capacitance between turns. I had always considered them as being in >parallel, >> thus the honeycomb, or the basket-weave configurations to minimize >the interturn >> capacitance. Have I misconstrued the purpose of those >configurations? >> >> Do I also understand you correctly that with a specified length of >the solenoid, >> and a given diameter, the total interturn capacitance is independent >of the >> number of turns, because the capacitance between turns adds in >series to the >> same value regardless of the number of turns? >> >==================================== >Walt, > >As I said, I was referring only to the solenoid form. > >Below the self-resonant frequency and for some way above it, the >distributed self-capacitance is equivalent to a lumped capacitor >across the ends of the coil. Coi > >Because capacitances between adjacent turns are in series with each >other, the capacitance between turns only matters when there are only >one or two turns. So, for ordinary proportioned coils, when there are >more than a few turns, the self-capacitance tends to become >independent of the number of turns, wire diameter and wire spacing. > >The wire turns can be considered to form the outside of a Faraday >cage. > >To calculate self capacitance, consider wire spacing to be zero. When >isolated in space we have the capacitance between the two fat halves >of a dipole. Which is calculable from length and diameter of the coil, >and is equivalent to a lumped capacitance between its ends, which may >be used to calculate the self-resonant frequency. > >Or the self-resonant frequency can be calculated directly from >dimensions and number of turns. > >In the past I have measured the self-resonant frequency of coils of >all sorts of dimensions. From antenna loading coils, coax choke >coils, to 6 feet long, 1 inch diameter, 1000 turns, 160-meter helical >antennas. In all cases measurement results agree with the calculating >formula within the uncertainties of the measured input data. >---- >Reg. > Thanks, Reg, for the valuable insight. It does pay to read the posts made by one G4FGQ. Walt Article: 228074 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DFA5CF.6080201@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:21:03 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44DEADA7.5010806@fuse.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > jawod wrote: > >> If you are confident in your intelligence, why do you need validation? > > > In my case, my wife's best friend's husband, who was a member > of MENSA, made a bet with me that I couldn't qualify for MENSA. > If I won, he would pay for the exam and my first year's dues. > If I lost, I was out the cost of the exam and dinner for 4. I suppose you two argue over who has the lower number and how much harder it USED to be to get into MENSA. :) Article: 228075 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DFA6A6.2020708@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:24:38 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> Olie wrote: >>>My MENSA membership number is 1006281. >>>What's your MENSA membership number? >>>-- >>>73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp >> >>A MENSA membership means you have a high intelligence quotient. A high >>intelligence quotient does not necessarily mean you know anything, only >>that if you apply yourself that you have the ability to learn more easily >>than an average person. I know some very lazy MENSA members that can't >>even spell a large number of the words they use. >> >>In other words, even people above average intelligence can be and often >>are too lazy to learn. They do manage to apply what they do know better >>than most. >> > > > Mensa - who gives a damned? Most of the "brilliant" people I've ever met - > had their thumbs up their ass when it came to doing the basic things in > life - they can't do them. What the hell good is a "brilliant" person if > they're too stupid to know how or lazy to do "basic" things? If having a > Mensa number means you're bankrupt in common sense or "lazy", I'd rather not > be a member - thank you. Often, it is "common sense" which gets you > through - NOT "brilliance". From all I've ever heard and /or seen - > "brilliance" and "common sense" don't go hand in hand. Sitting in a chair > with a bunch of books behind you to make you "appear" smart and not getting > off your lazy ass to use it or to further your education - is not a > "productive" person. I know a few welfare bums who fall into that > description- "appear" smart, "act" smart - lazy as hell. Being in the center > of a University Library with books on most any subject - is NOT going to > make you any more intelligent if you don't venture to "learn". Even at that, > if you don't use it, you lose it. > > ............. > This is funny as all getout > > Obviously the person claiming to be a Mensa member has poked a figurative > finger into your soft spot. Sensitive, are you? Taking umbrage? Apparently > you feel that the alleged Mensa member has slighted you either directly or > indirectly, ergo your lengthy and uncalled-for diatribe. > Of course, in your self-righteous response you probably did not consider the > possibility that the "Mensa" person was a troll. Makes no difference, does > it? He certainly set you off on a rant. > I give him five stars for that. > > Sit back, read the post again and view it with a bit of a tongue-in-cheek > sense of humor. It will lower your blood pressure. Even if the guy IS a > Mensa member, by the simple fact of him bragging about same shows that he is > a blowgut braggart whose ego has gotten in the way of common sense. > I doubt he is what he says he is, but he certainly elicited a wordy response > from you. > He wins. You lost. > > > > If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit pretentious and downright silly. If someone wants to use MENSA to elevate themselves above the rest, they are perched on very rickety stilts. Article: 228076 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> <22KDg.6271$o27.5722@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:39:02 GMT Dave wrote: > Or, do you claim the net Z01B + 0.646[Case 1} is now electrically > longer, in degrees, than Z01A + 0.646[case 2]. Why? I already explained how to prove to yourself why those two cases are different. Please perform the Smith Chart gymnastics and then report your findings. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228077 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <44DFA6A6.2020708@fuse.net> Message-ID: <0VNDg.5150$%j7.4201@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:42:04 GMT jawod wrote: > If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit > pretentious and downright silly. Ditto for the Morse code testing requirement. That was the whole point. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228078 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Rusty Shackleford" References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:46:20 GMT "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:EFFDg.12167$gY6.3958@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > Truth is, I got into MENSA because someone lost a bet and > paid for my exam and dues. I am not presently a member of > MENSA because the yearly dues exceed my threshold of pain. > But I am a member of OOTC and FISTS, #8741. :-) Question (this is not a flame):. 1. Is the ability to decode Morse Code transmissions, in one's own wet modem (brain), at high speed, proportional or even relevant in any possible way to one's ability to pass a mensa test and be accepted for membership? Is mensa membership useful? Is mensa membership a measure of Morse wet modem throughput? Cecil, I think you already answered all of the above as 'no'. That doesn't mean I like the the brand of motorcycle you drive. I do not. I like BMW's that don't require a toolkit for every 100 miles on the road. 2. Or, (as I suspect), is Morse ability only useful after you have purchased one's HF equipment, now that one has passed the test (whose investment you otherwise would not have made until you passed the trivial but compulsory 5wpm test for Morse code proficiency) to have to have fun and prevent future alien attacks? I am an extra class op who passed 13 wpm several years ago, can do 25 wpm now and getting better all the time just because of heavy (and fun) Morse action on the cw sub-bands, and wanting to know what people are saying and being able to communicate back; in fact, CW is almost as good as psk31. 3. Just the same, how much does this mensa thing cost? Is it worth a dinner for 4? Article: 228079 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:04:21 GMT Rusty Shackleford wrote: > 1. Is the ability to decode Morse Code transmissions, in one's own wet modem > (brain), at high speed, proportional or even relevant in any possible way to > one's ability to pass a mensa test and be accepted for membership? Is mensa > membership useful? Is mensa membership a measure of Morse wet modem > throughput? Rusty, let me answer you this way. In my humble opinion, a MENSA level IQ is worth magnitudes more to its possessor than is Morse code skill even within the Amateur Radio Service. If all the coded hams with IQ's less than 100 were transformed into nocode techs with MENSA level IQ's, the ARS would be much better off and a lot less prone to silliness. The ARRL might even stop publishing those gross technical errors, e.g. reflections don't exist. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228080 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> <22KDg.6271$o27.5722@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:08:56 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: >> Or, do you claim the net Z01B + 0.646[Case 1} is now electrically >> longer, in degrees, than Z01A + 0.646[case 2]. Why? > > I already explained how to prove to yourself why those > two cases are different. Please perform the Smith Chart > gymnastics and then report your findings. If one takes one foot of stinger and transfers it to the base element section, the antenna length remains the same and the resonant frequency increases. I assume you already knew that. So of course, 0.646 is electrically longer when it is on top of the coil than when it is on the bottom of the coil. The Smith Chart exercise will show why that is true. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228081 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David 01" References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:28:33 -0400 Message-ID: <3c8fb$44dfb595$4b75c8a5$16107@ALLTEL.NET> I wish everybody here would use their MENSA and take this thread and the other non swap related garbage out of rec.radio.swap. "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:VdODg.5454$%j7.187@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > Rusty Shackleford wrote: > > 1. Is the ability to decode Morse Code transmissions, in one's own wet modem > > (brain), at high speed, proportional or even relevant in any possible way to > > one's ability to pass a mensa test and be accepted for membership? Is mensa > > membership useful? Is mensa membership a measure of Morse wet modem > > throughput? > > Rusty, let me answer you this way. In my humble opinion, a MENSA > level IQ is worth magnitudes more to its possessor than is Morse > code skill even within the Amateur Radio Service. If all the coded > hams with IQ's less than 100 were transformed into nocode techs > with MENSA level IQ's, the ARS would be much better off and a lot > less prone to silliness. The ARRL might even stop publishing those > gross technical errors, e.g. reflections don't exist. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > Article: 228082 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 17:21:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1155514894.111278.191790@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: David 01 wrote: > I wish everybody here would use their MENSA and take this thread and the > other non swap related garbage out of rec.radio.swap. either use your ignore thread comnad if you don't have one just try not reading it Article: 228083 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 17:21:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1155514894.144629.267820@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: David 01 wrote: > I wish everybody here would use their MENSA and take this thread and the > other non swap related garbage out of rec.radio.swap. either use your ignore thread comnad if you don't have one just try not reading it Article: 228084 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "L." References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 21:28:40 -0400 Message-ID: <44dfd1ce$0$6606$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> "jawod" wrote in message news:44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net... > >> >> >> In the example YOU give - Cecil - it could be taken either way. In the >> case of the "frequencies" you're to operate on for a given license and >> band - YES - you could simply "memorize" (not really commit to memory) >> those frequencies - for the exam purposes and just refer to a chart from >> there in. OR you COULD "memorize" them (actually committing to memory) >> for the purpose of NOT having to use a chart! However, once you use those >> frequencies after a while - especially if active - then you "would" tend >> to "memorize" (for life) those frequencies. Yes, it is definately >> splitting hairs! >> >> L. > that makes no sense. to memorize is to commit to memory, by definition. RE-READ IT - there were TWO people here in the beginning "splitting hairs" about the use of or perhaps MIS use of the word "memorization. One was leaning towards "memorizing" "ANSWERS" purely to satisfy an exam....... i.e; ABCD.......... it isn't quite that simple. On the other hand, the other argument was in the "true" sense of the word - TO MEMORIZE (commit to memory for life). Article: 228085 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "kb9rqz@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 19:13:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1155521625.916501.7000@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: L. wrote: > "jawod" wrote in message news:44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net... > > > >> > RE-READ IT - there were TWO people here in the beginning "splitting hairs" > about the use of or perhaps MIS use of the word "memorization. One was > leaning towards "memorizing" "ANSWERS" purely to satisfy an exam....... i.e; > ABCD.......... it isn't quite that simple. On the other hand, the other > argument was in the "true" sense of the word - TO MEMORIZE (commit to memory > for life). what it has been about is that couple of folks want to make out that somehow the NoCodeTechs are some how doing something altogether different from what has been done for years Article: 228086 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "L." References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <44DFA6A6.2020708@fuse.net> <0VNDg.5150$%j7.4201@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:38:01 -0400 Message-ID: <44dfe20f$0$6610$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:0VNDg.5150$%j7.4201@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > jawod wrote: >> If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit >> pretentious and downright silly. > > Ditto for the Morse code testing requirement. > That was the whole point. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Let me set something straight. "I" was NOT beating my chest about "CODE". I was only in the argument with regard to the use/misuse of the word "Memorization". "I" think code has its place - but not as it once did. It sure isn't keeping the bands clean by keeping it in place. "I" don't use code - that often. I think also, it "can" be fun to learn for those who may want to try it. Some people may - as has been proven, still - others won't - which also has been proven. THAT IS MY stance on code. As to the "mis"spelling of "genius", hey - what can I say - I'm human, I DO make mistakes. I don't rely on "spell check" techniques - so ............ an error does tend to sneak through from time to time. It doesn't matter one iota to me if you do code or not. "I" surely am not here to pass judgement on you or anyone else by that ability or inability (since some DO have trouble getting it). OR lack of interest "may" be more specific. I have quite a few people I talk to on the bands who are "NO CODE Techs. They're not interested in the code - OR wanting to climb any higher in license class. Its cool with me....... That is their thing - not mine. It sure doesn't mean we can't have a decent conversation - be it on the air via repeater, simplex, computer mode or face to face. :) L. Article: 228087 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "kb9rqz@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 20:09:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1155524999.519215.134960@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> L. wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:0VNDg.5150$%j7.4201@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > > jawod wrote: > >> If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit > >> pretentious and downright silly. > > > > Ditto for the Morse code testing requirement. > > That was the whole point. > > -- > > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > Let me set something straight. "I" was NOT beating my chest about "CODE you are however enging a deabte flaming people on side of the map that tend to get you "counter battery fire sir face it or not as you choose Article: 228088 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:41:30 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> a MENSA > level IQ is worth magnitudes more to its possessor than is Morse > code skill even within the Amateur Radio Service. If all the coded > hams with IQ's less than 100 were transformed into nocode techs > with MENSA level IQ's, the ARS would be much better off and a lot > less prone to silliness. The ARRL might even stop publishing those > gross technical errors, e.g. reflections don't exist. Cecil you're trolling, aren't you? If you truly believe this stuff, you're in sadder shape than I thought. Your MENSA membership is dreck, dribble, dross. With code, there is, at least, some grounding in practicality: a real world function. "Whew! I knew I was a genius but now I have PROOF!" How completely sad. MENSA has perverted the very nature of IQ in a manner not dissimilar to the way Home Owner Associations have perverted the notion of individual freedoms (guaranteed by our Constitution). Enjoy your little trophy but I'm sure you'll keep yourself insulated >from the derision you richly deserve when you bring it up in this newsgroup. I can tell that you're not a bad guy...but, the mensa thing makes you seem, I don't know, ...(fill in the blank) Be Good. Hell, be more egalitarian for once in your life! We all share a HOBBY!!!! John AB8O Article: 228089 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:49:32 -0400 On 12 Aug 2006 15:42:50 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >oncce you accpet that much of the testing involves memizztion the >question then comes down to where is your beef? Those who memorize answers instead of learning concepts - what you would have seen at the beginning of the thread had you paid attention. >you tread awfully close to libel there AL Look up the definition of "libel". Part of it is "malicious defamation". Calling a penny a cent isn't malicious, nor is it defamatory. > ask an lawyer if you don't believe me You need to take your own advice. Also you need to ask an English teacher - you don't seem to know the definitions of a lot of very common words. Article: 228090 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155422631.434982.49560@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:51:10 -0400 On 12 Aug 2006 15:43:51 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:41:33 GMT, Cecil Moore >> wrote: >> >> >Brenda Ann wrote: >> >> There's a difference between memorizing a formula or method and memorizing >> >> specific answers to specific questions. The former is called learning, and >> >> can be applied to many situations. The latter is called laziness, and >> >> teaches nothing that can be used for any other purpose. >> > >> >That is just hair-splitting. >> >> The same hair splitting as the difference between stealing money and >> earning it - they're both methods of obtaining it. >again you tread close to libel and flatout insaity There's nothing either malicious not defamatory in that. ("Who" am I defaming? "Hair"?) >> But, since you don't know the difference between "learning" and >> "memorizing", nor which subjects fall into which category, you >> probably can't see the parallel. >and again Telling you something true about yourself isn't actionable, unless done with certain intent, which you'd be hard-pressed to prove. Article: 228091 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155308267.270679.100020@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155336873.334573.182430@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1155347488.895791.96000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155402608.674317.299000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:54:12 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:13:23 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:24:46 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Your claim to know what I'm thinking better than I do? Only if your >>age is a single digit. >sure I know better Then you're claiming to be a child. >>>> >your beef has nothing to do with the tests it is to do with end of the >>>> >Hazing ritual that is a bout to occour >>>> There's a hazing rule in ham radio? Since when? >>>sure there is it is called Morse Code testing >>You don't win points by redefining words, you just make yourself look >>desperate. >no refining word HERE at any rate If you don't even know the difference between refining and redefining (they're not even close in meaning), there's no way you can discuss it. But testing for a license isn't hazing by any accepted definition regardless of what's being tested for. >you are dancing around sutblies in the menaing of emorizing like mad In your mind, because you can't understand the simple distinctions. Article: 228092 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <9vsvd2lfgc7m2cv9hds5h79ri5hchdk6uf@4ax.com> References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <4bbqd2pmudip3s3j0geqbookdclrvqrq0s@4ax.com> <1155402696.148105.304140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <09ksd2d8kdt36t61dsk27espsee0e6i2o3@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:55:15 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:10:00 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:09:02 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Why don't you stay out of discussions you don't understand? We know >>you're a fool, why keep proving it? Read Samuel Clemens, at least. >why don't you stay out of discussions that show so as aold fool not >honest enough he blowing smoke Parroting what I say doesn't make you look educated. >you are arguing over a difference that does not exist certain not as a >some sharp line In your mind. >http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ The fact that you posted something on your blog doesn't make it definitive, or even correct. Article: 228093 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:56:24 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:14:08 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:09:47 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:01:51 GMT, Cecil Moore >>wrote: >>>So exactly what is the "formula or method" for determining Extra >>>frequency privileges outside of memorizing them? >>Since frequency assignments aren't theory, your question is both >>irrelevant and incompetent. >since feq assignment are large part of the test they go to the core of >the matter Another case of your commenting on something you don't understand. "The core of the matter" is the difference between rote memorization and understanding - which you don't understand. Article: 228094 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:57:26 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:14:59 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:18:11 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Any knowledgeable person knows that knowledge is valuable for its own >>sake. >and also knows that not all knowledge is equaly valuable There's a difference between "knowledge" as a class and specific knowledge - something evidently outside the scope of your knowledge. Article: 228095 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <48osd29t9np8c8srpreghml88aits2me93@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:59:30 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:16:28 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:16:39 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>>but there still ramins no need for me to ever know the differentce >>>between a collpitts and hartely occilator. >>There's no *need* for you to even know that you can use a radio to >>talk to people. >there is if I want a license for it Learn (now there's a new concept for you) the difference between "specific" and "general". >>There's a need, if we want a ham license to say that the holder of >>said license has achieved a certain level of technical competence, to >>test for that competence. Otherwise all the license says is "I have >>this piece of paper with ink on it". >no it say I have legal license to do xyz with it that is all it has >ever said In your limited experience - which is about 0% relevant to anyone else. >experhaps in the epriod where the general advanced and >Extra class all had the same preveldges Which was ... oh ... only a few decades. But you weren't licensed then, so they don't matter, right? Article: 228096 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <99tvd2193fjj37j8c9ngnlelh91t9tgqaj@4ax.com> References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:00:50 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:17:33 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:23:13 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:12:59 GMT, Cecil Moore >>wrote: >>>Laziness allows one to achieve a goal by the most efficient >>>route. Some famous German military leader said he would >>>lots rather have brilliant and lazy officers than ambitious >>>and stupid ones. >>As I recall, he was also known as one of the most idiotic strategists >>the species has ever produced. His "fame" didn't stop him from being >>the almost single-handed reason his country lost its big war, did it? >>> I personally would rather see brilliant >>>and lazy amateur radio operators than ambitious and stupid >>>ones hanging on for dear life to an obsolete testing >>>requirement. >>Being both intelligent and ambitious doesn't appear on your radar? >but it is not a requirement of licensing after you have one Your comment was totally irrelevant to THIS conversation, Mark. Ham radio has nothing to do, in this context, with Hitler. Article: 228097 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <9dtvd2900p59qe44tem9ju2v1ti1e8s1sp@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:02:09 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:51:28 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >I am too lazy I think that says it all. Article: 228098 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <7ftvd2hjsfc1t99rrkbrpbdmbcl4hn6m51@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:04:16 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:37:41 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >My MENSA membership number is 1006281. There ought to be a Godwin's Rule type of rule for using the MENSA crutch. Maybe I should declare one. Klein's rule - so you lose. (The claim "I'm so intelligent that ..." proves lack of intelligence.) Article: 228099 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:04:55 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:57:13 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Since frequency assignments aren't theory, your question is both >> irrelevant and incompetent. >So the questions on my Extra exam were irrelevant? No, but at least you're consistent - your response is non-responsive and incompetent. Article: 228100 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:05:46 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 20:11:49 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:57:13 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: >>I would like to >>see one and only one entry level amateur radio exam >>leading to one brotherhood of amateur radio operators >>devoid of the jealousy, pecking order, and back-biting >>apparent in your postings and others. >amen You wouldn't be able to pass it, Mark, but you'd be the only one who would care about that. Article: 228101 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <0ltvd2hlra21i0qhc12eucks8lotga2qa3@4ax.com> References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:09:15 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:04:45 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> But, since you don't know the difference between "learning" and >> "memorizing", nor which subjects fall into which category, you >> probably can't see the parallel. >Learning is impossible without memorizing. Memorizing is possible without learning. > You are simply ignorant I'm not the one who doesn't understand the discussion, inverting "memorizing" and "learning". Maybe you need to stop being so lazy and actually learn something. >Is English your second language? Third. My internal language is (was) my first. Brooklynese was my second. English is my third. > Again, from Websters Again, Webster's is a compendium of common usage, not an unabridged (regardless of the trademark) authoritative source. those who cling to dictionary definitions as authoritative announce their lack of actual knowledge. Article: 228102 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:10:44 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:08:14 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> Here's the crux of your communications problem. From Webster's: >> "The absolutely worst source of the definition of a technical term is >> a non-technical dictionary. >"Memorize" is NOT a technical word. As a technical term (the usage here) it is, by definition. > Please get >back to us when you have talked the IEEE into >putting your special definition of "memorize" >into their technical dictionary. As soon as the IEEE becomes a body of experts in the usage of the English language. In the meantime, why don't you go and learn something? Anything. New experiences can be quite enjoyable. Article: 228103 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:12:21 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:22:31 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> Laziness allows one to achieve a goal by the most efficient >>> route. Some famous German military leader said he would >>> lots rather have brilliant and lazy officers than ambitious >>> and stupid ones. >> >> As I recall, he was also known as one of the most idiotic strategists >> the species has ever produced. His "fame" didn't stop him from being >> the almost single-handed reason his country lost its big war, did it? > >This was a WWI German officer and I don't recall his name. Then it's just an assertion of yours, isn't it? >> Being both intelligent and ambitious doesn't appear on your radar? >The pride, lust, and greed usually accompanying ambition are >a good percentage of the seven deadly sins. Sorry, I don't share your religious incredulity. I don't recognize "sin" as anything but a nonsense word. Article: 228104 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:14:47 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:48:36 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Brenda Ann wrote: >> Some >> advanced appliance operators know enough to connect other peripheral devices >> such as digital mode devices or power amplifiers, but do not know how these >> devices work, nor how to construct such devices. >An amateur radio license is an entry level license. There are a few classes - ONE class is entry level. > It is not a university degree. When I obtained all amateur privileges >at the age of 15, I didn't know squat. "When I robbed a man at the age of 15, I wasn't arrested." Does that make robbery legal? Your experience is only that - your experience, it's not definitive. > All I had done is memorize >the ARRL License Manual. Six years later I had a EE degree. What >is wrong with learning the technical stuff after one obtains his >entry level license? Nothing, if you don't care that the license means nothing more than that you have it. Article: 228105 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176286.445811.289510@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:15:18 -0400 On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: >> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. Article: 228106 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: eternalsquire@comcast.net Subject: performance of Gorge-mounted dipoles? Date: 13 Aug 2006 23:02:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1155535365.682034.199490@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> All, I have an antenna puzzler for you all. My trailer is sitting on one side of a 60 foot high mesa resting on top of a vast desert plain. On the edge of the mesa is a gorge that opens outward, forming a Vee. The two points of the Vee, on the mesa, are about 180 feet apart. The bottom of the gorge slopes gently down to the plain, such that the edges of the Vee are 40 foot higher than the bottom of the gorge, and 30 feet away from where the gorge begins to open from the mesa. What this means is that I could possibly hang a rope mounted dipole in free space, using guy anchors hammered into the Vee points in the mesa dirt. I possibly could even hang reflectors at the appropriate intervals on either side of the dipole to create a non-rotating wire Yagi. My question to you all is this: will the antenna's performance be defined by the fact that it is hanging 60 feet in free space over the plain, or will this be nullified by the geometry of the gorge immediately behind and below the antenna? Keep in mind that soil conductivity is very poor in the desert. I plan on using this for transmitting only, I discovered two lines of wood supported wire fencing on which I could mount lay wire atop for receiving beverages. Each of these lines go on for thousands of feet and cross at right angles only a hundred or so feet >from the trailer. Thoughts? The Eternal Squire Article: 228107 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" Subject: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v coax which is 72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 specified over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i can but, will the impedence affect the 4 turn choke ????... Thanks. Lee......de G6ZSG..... Article: 228108 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Helmut Wabnig <...._.--_.-_-..._-._.._--.@.-_---_-._*_.-_-> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:11:10 +0200 Message-ID: <2ub0e25lgt2cj4la0idocbmes2sdbl283g@4ax.com> References: On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v coax >which is >72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 >specified >over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... > >What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i can >but, will the impedence affect >the 4 turn choke ????... > >Thanks. > >Lee......de G6ZSG..... > It will work perfectly, because the TV coax is good HF quality. Why do you use a 4 turn choke? w. Article: 228109 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <2ub0e25lgt2cj4la0idocbmes2sdbl283g@4ax.com> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:28:17 GMT "Helmut Wabnig" <...._.--_.-_-..._-._.._--.@.-_---_-._*_.-_-> wrote in message news:2ub0e25lgt2cj4la0idocbmes2sdbl283g@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT, "Lee" > wrote: < > > > It will work perfectly, because the TV coax is good HF quality. > > Why do you use a 4 turn choke? > > w. Sorry, typo!.........Balun!! Thanks, thought so. Lee.....de G6ZSG...... Article: 228110 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Slohand" Subject: another free resource for HAMs Date: 14 Aug 2006 04:03:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1155553389.563773.36890@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> I checked out http://www.usrepeaters.com, nice website. Article: 228111 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Moving again... have to make a new antenna (sigh) Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:25:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1155558352.295942.136850@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1155429052.626794.225160@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> An end fed long wire is your only possibility given the rules you set forth... A 5 to 10 wavelength wire should help... Model it or look in the antenna handbook for the patterns... However, my "beat the rules instinct" kicks in... What is to stop you >from running open wire line a quarter mile out to a vertical? Even if you have to go out after dark and stand the vertical up and take it down at dawn, eh! denny Article: 228112 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: performance of Gorge-mounted dipoles? Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:27:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1155558428.602187.281590@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <1155535365.682034.199490@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> It has been done... It works... The biggest one I am aware of was a 160 meter wire beam... denny Article: 228113 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Re:'Paint-On' Antenna Test Flight Paves Way For Next-Generation High-Altitude Airships Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:30:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1155558649.740416.312170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: In the end, self adhesive aluminum foil will be used and will be one tenth the price with 4 to 7 times better performance...... denny Article: 228114 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "w8ji@akorn.net" Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:52:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1155559967.075962.132360@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <1154658861.371239.283890@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Is Cecil still beating that same old dead horse that only he rides? Walter Maxwell wrote: > On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:30:34 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: > > >Reg Edwards wrote: > >> I agree, a coil at sufficiently high frequencies begins to behave > >> something like a transmission line with a very low velocity factor. > > > >Just below its self-resonant frequency, it behaves somewhat > >like a transmission line of less than 90 degrees. > >snip > >But maybe one hoot. :-) My 75m bugcatcher coil is operated > >relatively close to its measured self-resonant frequency of > >6.6 MHz. If I wound a bugcatcher coil to be self-resonant > >on 4 MHz and then used 2/3 of that coil for a loading coil > >on 4 MHz, its VF would not change and its electrical length > >would be 60 degrees accompanied by the appropriate 60 degree > >delay through the coil. > > Hi Cecil & Reg > > Sometime during the '70s I measured the self-resonant frequency of the 80m > Hustler loading coil, 6MHz. The series resistance of that coil was 31 ohms at 4 > MHz. That is why they claimed 'lower swr than with othe brands'. What a fraud. > On the other hand, I also measured the Webster KW-80, self-resonant at 14.0 MHz, > with a series resistance of 8 ohms at 4 MHz. I reported this on Page 6-12 in > Reflections. > > So I ask you, Cecil, why would you want a bugcatcher self-resonant at 4 MHz for > operation at 4.0 MHz, even if you used only 2/3 of it as a loading coil. Looking > just to heat the coil instead of radiating the energy into space? > > Walt, W2DU Article: 228115 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:55:58 GMT jawod wrote: > you're trolling, aren't you? No, I'm wishing that every amateur radio operator had an above average IQ. Don't you agree that would be a good thing for them and the ARS? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228116 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:05:37 GMT Al Klein wrote: >> An amateur radio license is an entry level license. > > There are a few classes - ONE class is entry level. They are all entry level. The Extra class license allows entry into the Extra class frequency segments. An amateur license is not a status symbol. Its only worth is the privileges granted. In the 1950's, generals, conditionals, advanced, and extras all had the same frequency privileges. I would like to see on