Article: 228840 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:10:22 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > You quite clearly said that "steady state" is not really steady. No I didn't. You either misunderstood or are trying to set up a straw man. > The meaning of steady state is not controversial. I never said it was so this is just another one of your straw men. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228841 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:15:53 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > My only comment was in regard to the definition of steady state. I doubt that we have different definitions of "steady-state". I didn't post a definition and I don't recall you posting one. What I said was that some of the 300 joules existing in the one second long transmission line during steady-state was supplied by the source before steady-state was reached, i.e. during the initial transient state. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228842 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: Poor Markie! - Markie, Just kill yourself. Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:16:11 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156167941.257256.314290@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156336223.563647.100240@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156346296.495989.316750@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156423136.443138.16580@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156507363.140996.70620@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> On 25 Aug 2006 05:02:43 -0700, peewee_lloyd_davies@yahoo.com wrote: > >MarkMron@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> On 24 Aug 2006 05:38:56 -0700, "Not Cocksucker Lloyd" >> wrote: >> >> > >> >an Old fraud wrote: >> >> Not Cocksucker Lloyd wrote: >> >> > MarkMoron@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> >> > > On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:46:53 GMT, Slow Code wrote: >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > why do you want to kil the ARS? >> >> > >> >> > Why do you want to "kill" the English language? >> >> based on you own adknowledgement that I am an expert on lying I say you >> >> are lying >> > >> >You proved me correct again in your "acknowledgement." >> the subject is your lying > >The subject is and was the fact you have substandard English skills. > lying again and your appointed expert points it out http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228843 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 25 Aug 2006 09:25:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Al Klein wrote: > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 02:12:14 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > > >Al Klein wrote: > >> As I said in another post, try that in Turkish. Or Latvian. Or any > >> other language you don't know a single word of. > > >Sorry, you first challenged me to do that in Spanish. > > David's choice was Spanish. My choice was a language one couldn't > understand. Pay attention. > > >I have proved beyond any doubt that I can do that. > >Your need to suddenly change languages on me speaks > >volumes. > > About your lack of content, yes. nope your efforts to keep chaning to rules it is tranperant as see though as your cowardly nature Article: 228844 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: markie_morgan_rapesboys@yahoo.com Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Date: 25 Aug 2006 09:57:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1156525026.992502.270630@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> an old friendless cocksucker wrote: > cease Cease breathing, asshole. Article: 228845 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Date: 25 Aug 2006 10:08:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1156525724.393865.19210@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> markie_morgan_rapesboys@yahoo.com wrote: cease and desist Article: 228846 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Working in strong 60Hz magnetic fields Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:13:27 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1156357951.687505.203010@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156521222.483712.35640@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> On 25 Aug 2006 08:53:42 -0700, kennnick@gmail.com wrote: >What voltage exists across the gap if a gap is cut into the loop? Hi Nick, About enough to light a small flash light bulb, or if rectified, an LED. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228847 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 25 Aug 2006 10:45:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: Hey Cecil, Can you sum up the problem with conservation of energy that modern RF textbooks get wrong? Dan Article: 228848 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? From: Dave Oldridge References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:22:21 GMT Al Klein wrote in news:rujpe2dfg6a35matc3fnrsauotja9co4lk@4ax.com: > On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:54:37 GMT, "Woody" wrote: > >>"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message >>news:Xns9827B8D1F9112doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... >>> For CW to be effective, both operators >>> must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend barriers >>> of language that only digital modes can get over. In my own case, >>> the fact that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit once >>> enabled me to render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were >>> other more routine examples of where the language barrier was >>> crossed by CW--many messages I copied were not in English at all, >>> but were readable by their end recipients). > >>OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed >>with bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a Spanish >>test. Thanks a lot. > > I think you missed the point. Even if you didn't know "ola" from > "adios", you can copy Spanish in CW and hand it to the recipient, who > can read it. Try that with a mic. > >>As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it >>off to another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too. >>No CW necessary. > > Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well > enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not. > In CW, you can. I can do it (and have done so) using phonetics. But that's SLOWER than CW. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228849 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:29:10 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> You quite clearly said that "steady state" is not really steady. > > No I didn't. You either misunderstood or are trying > to set up a straw man. > >> The meaning of steady state is not controversial. > > I never said it was so this is just another one of > your straw men. > Cecil, Your exact words were: *** Steady-state had a beginning and it will have an end. It cannot be analyzed without knowing what happened in the beginning and what will happen in the end. Steady-state is the rug under which you and others try to sweep the laws of physics including the conservation of energy principle. I'm doing what I can to call your bluff. *** This says that steady state depends on something else, namely the beginning and the end of the steady state condition. That is simply incorrect. In steady state conditions there is no concept of beginning or end. If you don't know the rules, you can't play the game. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 228850 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: You Subject: Re: antenna switch References: <1156463652.569279.320370@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:44:28 GMT In article <1156463652.569279.320370@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, kevin.pavin@gmail.com wrote: > Hi, > > This is a variant on a question I asked a couple days ago. Again I'm > not the most hardware knowledgable so apologies in advance. > > I have two WiFi (802.11b here) routers that I'm using to conduct some > experiments. They will be co-located (~half wavelength spacing) and > sending broadcast packets in a continuous loop over the duration of the > experiment. I originally wanted to disable carrier sense on the > routers so that they could transmit packets simultaneously. Given the > difficulty I've had trying to achieve this as an alternative I would > like to use some sort of timed switching device. Essentially I would > like this device to on each clock cycle short one of the routers to its > respective antenna and open circuit the other router from its antenna > and ground its output, and then on the next cycle do the opposite. I'd > like a clock period of about 2 msec. The idea then would be that the > routers would not block one another from transmitting. > > One might ask why not just let them both transmit without this > switching device, in theory the carrier sense should allow equal > channel use, but I've observed that its not as evenly distrubuted over > time intervals as I would like for my experiments. Thanks for any > suggestions on this device, > > Kev > Pin diodes at the end of a 1/4 wave Stub....... Article: 228851 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:15:17 -0400 On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:22:21 GMT, Dave Oldridge wrote: >Al Klein wrote in >news:rujpe2dfg6a35matc3fnrsauotja9co4lk@4ax.com: >> Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well >> enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not. >> In CW, you can. >I can do it (and have done so) using phonetics. But that's SLOWER than >CW. You're preaching to the choir, Dave. I've had to handle foreign language traffic phonetically by voice and by CW - and I much prefer CW for that kind of work, even though I prefer voice for most rag-chewing. As you say, needing it spelled out is quite slow. Article: 228852 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <1156512688.306777.324280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:44:15 GMT n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > Can you sum up the problem with conservation of energy that modern RF > textbooks get wrong? They don't get it wrong - they just don't discuss it at all. But here is an example of the problem: http://eznec.com/misc/food_for_thought/ First article - last paragraph. W7EL considers steady-state conditions while ignoring the previous transient state conditions. He implies that the energy in the reflected wave cannot be recovered but it is indeed dissipated as power in the system after power is removed from the source. The source supplies exactly the amount of energy during the transient power up conditions needed to support the forward and reflected waves during steady-state. This is easy to prove. But W7EL's Ivory Tower protects Him from peons like me. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228853 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:51:37 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > This says that steady state depends on something else, namely the > beginning and the end of the steady state condition. That is simply > incorrect. In steady state conditions there is no concept of beginning > or end. A 12VDC battery is sitting there with a 200 amp*hour charge. Are you asserting that there is no concept of where the 200 amp*hours came from? Please tell me you are not that stupid. Consider the one second long transmission line with 200W of forward power and 100W of reflected power. That requires 300 joules of energy during steady-state. If the 300 joules was not supplied during the transient state, then it must have magically appeared out of thin air in violation of the conservation of energy principle? Is that what you are trying to tell us? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228854 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:54:31 GMT Al Klein wrote: > You're preaching to the choir, Dave. I've had to handle foreign > language traffic phonetically by voice and by CW - and I much prefer > CW for that kind of work, even though I prefer voice for most > rag-chewing. As you say, needing it spelled out is quite slow. I prefer phonetics myself. So are you advocating using the coercive force of the federal government to enforce your preferences instead of mine? Of course you are! -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228855 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Frank's" References: <12ecgid65q8rl39@corp.supernews.com> <9EkHg.16961$365.16611@edtnps89> Subject: Re: 9 m Monopole Analysis Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:58:36 GMT > .............When I convert > the polar form of a complex number (two cells) to rectangular form > (single cell); the cell size expands to 42 digits in scientific format. > ............................... If anybody is interested; I posted my question on the "microsoft.public.excel" NG, got an immediate answer as follows: =COMPLEX(ROUND(Re,n),ROUND(Im,n)), where "n" is the number of digits required. Frank Article: 228856 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:37:55 -0400 On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:54:31 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> You're preaching to the choir, Dave. I've had to handle foreign >> language traffic phonetically by voice and by CW - and I much prefer >> CW for that kind of work, even though I prefer voice for most >> rag-chewing. As you say, needing it spelled out is quite slow. > >I prefer phonetics myself. So are you advocating using the >coercive force of the federal government to enforce your >preferences instead of mine? Of course you are! Of course you don't understand a thing Dave and I are discussing. It's surprising that you can find the "on" switch on your computer. Article: 228857 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 25 Aug 2006 13:50:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1156539048.941052.297210@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Al Klein wrote: > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:54:31 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > > >Al Klein wrote: > >> You're preaching to the choir, Dave. I've had to handle foreign > >> language traffic phonetically by voice and by CW - and I much prefer > >> CW for that kind of work, even though I prefer voice for most > >> rag-chewing. As you say, needing it spelled out is quite slow. > > > >I prefer phonetics myself. So are you advocating using the > >coercive force of the federal government to enforce your > >preferences instead of mine? Of course you are! > > Of course you don't understand a thing Dave and I are discussing. It's > surprising that you can find the "on" switch on your computer. well are you still tlaking to anybody here AL your problem is that we all see your number way to well for your comfort Article: 228858 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:19:38 GMT Al Klein wrote: > Of course you don't understand a thing Dave and I are discussing. It's > surprising that you can find the "on" switch on your computer. My MENSA membership number is 1006281. What's yours? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228859 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 25 Aug 2006 14:29:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1156541349.468325.201780@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Cecil Moore wrote: > Al Klein wrote: > > Of course you don't understand a thing Dave and I are discussing. It's > > surprising that you can find the "on" switch on your computer. > > My MENSA membership number is 1006281. What's yours? now ccil must not be boastfull he was just expresing his own stupidity > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228860 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 25 Aug 2006 16:27:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: The net power flux in the line gets smaller as the reflected wave gets stronger while maintaining a constant electric field (constant voltage as in Roy's example). If you can match to the new impedance at the line input; that is, make the electric fields both stronger, you can get a larger net power flux even in the presence of some elevated SWR. See LaTeX formatted math at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dan_Zimmerman/Sandbox The flux of stored power in the line, interestingly enough, is a sinusoidal function of position. I'm still thinking what to make of it, but I thought I'd post the math for people to look at (and check, please!!!!) ... I'll be back later. 73, Dan Article: 228861 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 25 Aug 2006 16:45:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1156549551.368941.58010@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > from: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Thurs, Aug 24 2006 6:39 pm > > wrote in message > > news:1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Wed, Aug 23 2006 7:46 pm > >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: > >> >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Tues, Aug 22 2006 7:14 pm > >> >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: > >> >> >> From: M...@kb9rqz.com on Mon, Aug 21 2006 6:30 pm > >> >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> >>From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm > >> >> >> >>>LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: > >> >> >> >>>> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 pm > > > >> In all my visits to USAF bases I've never seen any CAP > >> personnel there, let alone some in a poopy suit. I've seen > >> several civilians on USAF bases, employed by the USAF, wearing > >> flight suits and clearly identified as to being civilian. > > > >Saturdays. They bring the kids in for a tour and a meal at the chow > >hall. > > OK, that explains it. :-) If I was on-site for some company > business, I wouldn't be there on weekends. :-) I attended 3 weeks of CWPC training at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama. It hosts CAP HQ. Didn't see any CAP uniforms there, either. Odd, though. The new owner of robesin's old vanity callsign, K4CAP, resides in Montgomery, Alabama. > >> >Oh, I don't know. After a hard day behind the microphone, he's got > >> >that 1,000 yard stare. > > > >> That's also a symptom of anoxia...lack of oxygen used up in > >> his bragging of what he did that never was... :-) > > > >> Tsk, all that work he does in trying to bluff us. All he had to > >> do was present SOME sort of document proof or even a personal > >> snapshot taken while in that "hostile-action-filled" 18 year > >> "career" in the USMC. He hasn't done so after many years. > > > >> If he can't present a single item of 18 years of his life, it > >> is hard for the rest of us to believe anything he said. > > > >I don't believe his bs. > > Any rational, sane person can't believe his claims. Hopefully, > that is most of us reading some of the garbage going on in here > now. Some of the whacko Anon's have championed robesin's cause, whatever it might be. > I found it uproarious that Robeson tried to cover up his NOT > naming a single military radio that was operational during his > alleged 18-year "USMC career," claiming "all the information is > classified!" :-) Scuse me while I blow the pepsi out of my nose. > Absolute bullshit. The names, ID, functions have all been in > public view...the 'Public' being the makers or those wanting to > get in on an RFQ (Request for Quote) being advertised by the > DoD. Even though I never operated (as a civilian) anything > more than an old ARC-27 or PRC-119 SINCGARS, all the military > radios operational between the times of those two are easily > recognizeable to me (well, the VRCs have lots of differences > between families but the same case and general form). The > operating manuals are NOT classified, just in limited > distribution. LOGSA the Logistics Supply Agency is busy making > CDs of all the printed manuals for darn near ALL military > equipment; it's a piece of cake to pop one of those CDs in an > ever-present military PC and read them. LOGSA has a website > and even civilians can download some of the older equipment's > manuals. LOGSA has some internal priority on what can be > downloaded (depending on the cookie generated by a non-military > PC). That was a tip I got from rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors > and rec.radio.amateur.homebrew. The nomenclatures and quick- > look facts are on a couple websites in a long, long, long list. > Even BAMA has some manuals for free download plus big link > lists for other sites that have them. Too much work for robesin. So he just "classified" everything. He was definitely confused by Major Vincent and his key on a necklace. Hah! > Robesin DID list some (questionable) nomenclatures for MARS > equipment once but NOTHING else. That kind of info can be > had from other hams' personal websites. MARS doesn't > normally talk about regular military tactical radio gear. > MARS doesn't normally use such. :-) > > LenAnderson@ieee.org If he was involved in MARS, it was probably just to eavesdrop on morale calls from a lonely GI to his wife or girlfriend back home. Article: 228862 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:45:42 +1200 From: "C.T.F. Jansen" Subject: Re: Don't Solder to Aluminum References: <4cbnr3-gol.ln1@mail.specsol.com> Message-ID: <44ef9a0a@news2.actrix.gen.nz> Greetings, A soldered joint to aluminium won't last. For a good electrical connection to aluminium get some jointing compound suitable for ensuring an electrical contact between dissimilar metals without corrosion. One has to use the same stuff for aluminium to aluminium connections as well or the aluminium will oxidise at the joint. Required for long (HF) yagi elements. Put the jointing compound on the cleaned aluminium and on the wire then fasten them together; by clamp, screw whatever. Some would tape up the joint so the jointing compound doesn't blow or wash away. There's an article in Radcom July 2005, p75 Technical topics, on working with aluminium. I've assisted engineers/technicians constructing/repairing HF yagi's on which every single aluminium to anything connection that has to conduct has the compound put on. Note that copper corrodes aluminium and that tightly clamping aluminum is useless at stopping oxidation in the joint. Take the joint apart later and everything will be wet ... Good luck. frank.jansen@actrix.gen.nz, ZL2TTS Article: 228863 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <1156357951.687505.203010@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156521222.483712.35640@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Working in strong 60Hz magnetic fields Message-ID: <14OHg.1732$p23.224@trnddc04> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:10:05 GMT Hi Nick Are actually able to get anywhere close to a 1,000 megawatt 3 phase power line without strict supervision from the management of that station?? My limited experience with stations associated with that voltage and curent indicate that there are really well qualified electrical engineers close by at all times. They have always seemed capable of understanding inductive coupling and have maintained close supervision of all personel near the plant. Where is this location? Jerry wrote in message news:1156521222.483712.35640@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... > Thanks Jim. You're correct in every respect of course, and the > cautions you've given are essentially the same as what I had already > established for myself. > > However, I think you'd be a little surprised (as I was) to find that > there's a lack of specific guidance in the industry on these > situations. At least based on my research to date. > > I've found lots of anecdotal tales of arcing and sparking in these > situations, but thus far nothing involving personal injury or worse. > Thus far, the worst consequence I've heard of has been a plant trip. > Even that is a million dollar or so event though. > > I'm not asking anyone to provide input on safety procedures; just > trying to pick up some ideas on what theory predicts. Maybe I should > pose a purely theoretical puzzler unrelated to safety, scaffolding, or > power plants. > > There's a loop in a square configuration, 3 meters on a side, adjacent > to a long conductor carrying 1400 amps AC at 60 Hz. The side nearest > the conductor is 1 meter from it. The loop is made of aluminum tubing > 75cm in diameter. > > What current is induced in the loop when it is closed? What voltage > exists across the gap if a gap is cut into the loop? > > 73--Nick, WA5BDU > > BTW: 1,400 is 5% of 28,000 > > -> I've worked on some of those really big battery banks too. > > > > Jim Higgins wrote: >> On 23 Aug 2006 11:32:31 -0700, kennnick@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >I'm a long-time reader of this NG and so realize that there is a lot >> >of knowledge of EM principles on tap here. I'm pondering a non-ham >> >issue from my workplace (a power plant) and could use a little >> >education or peer checking of my ideas. >> >> >> I think it's good that you're pondering, but I think any consideration >> of changes in the established work methods should be avoided unless >> they are discussed with and approved by personnel charged with >> workplace safety. The power industry wasn't born yesterday and if >> people aren't dying or being injured using current practices I think >> it ill advised to make changes on your own based on your own >> conjecture and most especially based on conjecture from others without >> experience in the same environment. >> >> Working around large lead acid batteries for 30 years - and I'm >> talking stuff that will easily deliver 10,000 DC amperes to a short, >> I've seen people who thought they knew better than the those who >> established procedures for them to follow very severely injured. >> >> Not the same thing at all as 28,000 AC amperes, but if you have to ask >> first then you shouldn't be making changes. Just my opinion. No >> offense intended. > Article: 228864 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:33:03 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> This says that steady state depends on something else, namely the >> beginning and the end of the steady state condition. That is simply >> incorrect. In steady state conditions there is no concept of beginning >> or end. > > A 12VDC battery is sitting there with a 200 amp*hour charge. Are > you asserting that there is no concept of where the 200 amp*hours > came from? Please tell me you are not that stupid. > > Consider the one second long transmission line with 200W of forward > power and 100W of reflected power. That requires 300 joules of > energy during steady-state. If the 300 joules was not supplied > during the transient state, then it must have magically appeared > out of thin air in violation of the conservation of energy principle? > Is that what you are trying to tell us? Cecil, You can wave your hands all you want, but it won't have much impact on the correct math and physics. Try writing the appropriate equations for your puzzler, in steady state conditions, and then figure out where to insert the transient behavior. Good luck. This is basic stuff taught in numerous math and technical courses. If don't accept the basic math, then I guess we will not agree. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 228865 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: test667 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:42:30 GMT test3 Article: 228866 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Cecil Moore" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 25 Aug 2006 19:47:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1156560468.498975.25520@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Gene Fuller wrote: > Try writing the appropriate equations for your puzzler, in steady state > conditions, and then figure out where to insert the transient behavior. I have already provided the equations, Gene. In a one second long lossless transmission line, 200 watts of forward power equals 200 joules of energy in the forward wave. 100 watts of reflected power equals 100 joules in the reflected wave. Total joules in the transmission line equals 200 + 100 = 300 joules. The equations are trivial. -- 73, Cecil, W5DXP Article: 228867 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Cecil Moore" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 25 Aug 2006 19:51:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > I'm still thinking what to make of it, but I thought I'd post the math > for people to look at (and check, please!!!!) Thanks, Dan. If I understand correctly, Roy's argument is that since the source is not supplying any steady-state energy to the lossless stub, there is no energy in the reflected wave within the stub. If we make Roy's lossless stub one second long, the picture becomes clearer. For the first two seconds, the 100 watt source pours 200 joules of RF energy into the stub. After that, during steady-state, the source supplies zero energy. But those 200 joules are still in the stub, 100 joules in the forward wave and 100 joules in the reflected wave, and they must obey the conservation of energy principle. There is *always* the exact amount of energy in the forward and reflected waves as required to achieve the forward and reflected power readings in a Z0 calibrated environment. -- 73, Cecil, W5DXP Article: 228868 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:10:14 -0700 Message-ID: References: <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:33:03 GMT, Gene Fuller wrote: >Cecil Moore wrote: >> Gene Fuller wrote: >>> In steady state conditions there is no concept of beginning >>> or end. >> >> If the 300 joules was not supplied >> during the transient state, then it must have magically appeared >> out of thin air in violation of the conservation of energy principle? Hi Gene, The bare contradiction is enough to condemn this thread. However, it does have its amusing character of "Who's on first?" Continuing that metaphor, Cecil would believe having been born on third base, that he had hit a triple to be there. ;-) 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228869 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:04:27 -0700 Message-ID: References: <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:10:14 -0700, Richard Clark wrote: >Continuing that metaphor, Cecil would believe having been born on >third base, that he had hit a triple to be there. ;-) For the concept challenged, Being on third is the steady state. The transient state is one of: Being born; hitting a triple; hitting a double and then a batter advancing the runner(s); hitting a single (then like wise with the batter's assist); stealing a base; or two. The steady state also has to satisify other conditions that were taken up by transients like outs and innings. e.g. being on third with three outs does not mean you can stay on third. Thus the next transient is The side is retired (state change) or, as in this case of the bottom of the ninth and an untied score The game is over (solution). 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228870 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bob D." Subject: My beams twist more than Chubby Checker Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:07:25 -0500 Message-ID: <98udndK2Br5uVXLZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@insightbb.com> Every antenna I ever bolted to a mast twisted. Tri-banders, 2M, TV antennas always land up pointing in the wrong direction. I've had antennas actually rotate, winding the coax around the mast till it pulls off. Does anyone have a tip for keeping antennas fixed to the mast? No matter how tight the U bolts are, the wind aways seems to win in the end. -- Bob D. ND9B Article: 228871 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? From: Dave Oldridge References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 04:34:25 GMT Cecil Moore wrote in news:XzIHg.720$Cq4.117 @newssvr25.news.prodigy.net: > Al Klein wrote: >> You're preaching to the choir, Dave. I've had to handle foreign >> language traffic phonetically by voice and by CW - and I much prefer >> CW for that kind of work, even though I prefer voice for most >> rag-chewing. As you say, needing it spelled out is quite slow. > > I prefer phonetics myself. So are you advocating using the > coercive force of the federal government to enforce your > preferences instead of mine? Of course you are! Not me. MY federal government dropped the code requirement a while back--and with my blessing. The sky didn't fall (at least not any further than it already had). But having used CW professionally for years, I know both its strengths and its weaknesses. Its main weakness is that not everyone can do it. PSK31 and PACTOR get a bit of an edge on it when there is no large ionospheric phase distortion happening, but require significantly more equipment. Back in 1976 when I was doing weather observing for a living on Sable Island, we were required to send the results of two balloon soundings and hourly surface observations to Halifax by RTTY. At night that 2mhz RTTY circuit often became impossible. Nor was the AM circuit any good. I frequently got out a key and sent it on CW. It was actually funny when one of the department's high mucky-muck techs came out to the island to fix the problem. I pointed out that verticals were great on 2mhz for a 192 mile path in the daytime but that they got bogged down in DX signals and QRN at night and suggested that he could improve things by giving us dipoles at both ends for night use. I also suggested that a properly designed VHF link would be superior. He laughed at me. Funny thing is, that man's son went out to Sable afterwards and installed a beacon that I could ALWAYS hear in Halifax, running 8 watts on 144mhz. The thing is, you don't always know what is saving a life. Those weather observations may have made no difference to anything or they may have made a huge difference to how someone flew a 747. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 VA7CZ Article: 228872 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? From: Dave Oldridge References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 04:36:52 GMT Cecil Moore wrote in news:KPJHg.39$6R7.22 @newssvr24.news.prodigy.com: > Al Klein wrote: >> Of course you don't understand a thing Dave and I are discussing. It's >> surprising that you can find the "on" switch on your computer. > > My MENSA membership number is 1006281. What's yours? I don't bother with low-IQ clubs myself. Or high-IQ ones for that matter. I did do some work on the question of human intelligence back in the 60's. It was interesting. We used factor analysis (now called PCA) and came to the conclusion that it is a six-dimensional vector quantity--to the extent you can measure it at all. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228873 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> Subject: Error correction Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 05:41:56 +0100 Message-ID: A correction - insert dt instead of dz. The fundamental partial differential equations of transmission lines are - - dv/dz = R + L*di/dt - di/dz = G + C*dv/dt where volts v and current i are incremental functions of distance and time, and z is incremental distance along line. Everything else follows. Similar equations can be written in terms of frequency. It is often easier to think in terms of Time and Distance rather than Frequency and Impedance. ---- Reg. Article: 228874 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <98udndK2Br5uVXLZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@insightbb.com> Subject: Re: My beams twist more than Chubby Checker Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:51:24 -0700 "Bob D." wrote in message news:98udndK2Br5uVXLZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@insightbb.com... > Every antenna I ever bolted to a mast twisted. Tri-banders, 2M, TV antennas > always land up pointing in the wrong direction. I've had antennas actually > rotate, winding the coax around the mast till it pulls off. Does anyone have > a tip for keeping antennas fixed to the mast? No matter how tight the U > bolts are, the wind aways seems to win in the end. For several antennas I am using an add-on to the u-bolt. See it (or similar) used with a u-bolt as item 8718 on this page: http://www.teeveesupply.com/product_pages/antennas/antenna_mounting_hardware .htm The toothed edges seem to dig into the mast section enough to keep it from turning. If you need to be really secure, I suppose you could pin it through the mast. The pinning idea also works with the antenna alone, but I'd avoid putting another hole in the boom. Also, a pin alone allows some angular movement, which you are setting out to prevent. You may need a longer u-bolt than came with the antenna. 73, "Sal" (KD6VKW Article: 228875 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 25 Aug 2006 23:01:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Cecil Moore wrote: > If I understand correctly, Roy's argument is that since > the source is not supplying any steady-state energy to > the lossless stub, there is no energy in the reflected > wave within the stub. That sounds right... if the reflection coefficient is 1 then there's no net power flux into/through the line in steady state, and this can be described if you like by counterpropagating waves each carrying the same amount of energy. The problem is, in your other example where you say 200 joules in the forward wave + 100 joules in the reflected wave = 300 joules in the line total, you're neglecting the vector character of the power flux. Yes, the waves carry energy, but they carry it in different directions. The net power flux in the line with 200W forward power and 100W reflected power is 100W net power flowing to the load from the source. The real part of the Poynting vector of the reflected wave opposes that of the forward wave, as long as I got all the signs right. I don't think we can neglect the imaginary part of the Poynting vector, though. It's not zero and I think it represents the flow of the power in the stored fields in the line, and if we want to get the total energy in the line, we have to include the stored fields. Dan Article: 228876 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Paul Hinman Subject: Re: Antenna wire References: <5udne2hbro4lsmhg5d7kv0c5nb4bbglof3@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:39:46 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080509040206040405050003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Clark wrote: >On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 02:18:21 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: > > > >>Apart from the challenge of making reliable connections to aluminium, >>are there other "issues" that come to mind in using such wire for >>antennas? >> >> > >Hi Owen, > >I've used ordinary house wiring for long-wires and they have survived >100# limb falls that ripped out my matching box from its post. The >survival was with the wire, not the box. > >[warning to Reggie, the prose that follows contains literary >allusions] > What price tensile strength? > >The worst thing you can do is pull a wire tight in an attempt to >totally eliminate sag. The inverse sine angle of its depression >magnifies the stress by huge amounts. A slight sag will never yield a >tensile failure in the most pedestrian of wire. > >73's >Richard Clark, KB7QHC > > As long as gravity exists will it ever be possible to get a perfectly horizontal dipole? In spite of a strong tensile component there will always be a vertical component due to gravity (with a centre feed there will also be the weight of any cable and perhaps a balun as well). The net effect is a sag called a catenary. Granted an infinite tension on the antenna wire would probably overcome the vertical component but the wire might not survive. The question for this relative neophyte is, what effect does the sag have on antenna performance? -- Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec lat North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec Maidenhead Locator DO33gk --------------080509040206040405050003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 02:18:21 GMT, Owen Duffy <owen@no.where> wrote:

  
Apart from the challenge of making reliable connections to aluminium,
are there other "issues" that come to mind in using such wire for
antennas?
    

Hi Owen,

I've used ordinary house wiring for long-wires and they have survived
100#  limb falls that ripped out my matching box from its post.  The
survival was with the wire, not the box.  

[warning to Reggie, the prose that follows contains literary
allusions]
	What price tensile strength?  

The worst thing you can do is pull a wire tight in an attempt to
totally eliminate sag.  The inverse sine angle of its depression
magnifies the stress by huge amounts.  A slight sag will never yield a
tensile failure in the most pedestrian of wire.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
  
As long as gravity exists will it ever be possible to get a perfectly horizontal dipole?  In spite of a strong tensile component there will always be a vertical component due to gravity (with a centre feed there will also be the weight of any cable and perhaps a balun as well).  The net effect is a sag called a catenary.  Granted an infinite tension on the antenna wire would probably overcome the vertical component but the wire might not survive.  The question  for this relative neophyte is, what effect does the sag have on antenna performance?

-- 
Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS
long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec
lat  North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec
Maidenhead Locator DO33gk 

--------------080509040206040405050003-- Article: 228877 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Gomes" Subject: Manual TET HB33SP Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:14:55 +0100 Message-ID: <44f01f36$0$16242$a729d347@news.telepac.pt> I need antenna manual TET HB33SP .Is a hold antenna (about 20 yeras) Thanks 73 CT1HIX Gomes Article: 228878 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:00:03 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Antenna wire References: <5udne2hbro4lsmhg5d7kv0c5nb4bbglof3@4ax.com> Message-ID: <4OydnbHz-spcqm3ZnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@comcast.com> Paul Hinman wrote: REDACTED > As long as gravity exists will it ever be possible to get a perfectly > horizontal dipole? NOPE!, At least not in wire. Theoretically, not in beams either. In spite of a strong tensile component there will > always be a vertical component due to gravity (with a centre feed there > will also be the weight of any cable and perhaps a balun as well). The > net effect is a sag called a catenary. Granted an infinite tension on > the antenna wire would probably overcome the vertical component but the > wire might not survive. The question for this relative neophyte is, > what effect does the sag have on antenna performance? Most likely less effect than nearby objects like houses, trees, earth, moon, sun, and rain. :-) "How many pins can be placed on the head of an angel?" makes more sense than hypothesizing about the effect of catenary on wire antennas. Article: 228879 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:01:11 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: My beams twist more than Chubby Checker References: <98udndK2Br5uVXLZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@insightbb.com> Message-ID: <4OydnbDz-sqTpW3ZnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@comcast.com> PIN Bob D. wrote: > Every antenna I ever bolted to a mast twisted. Tri-banders, 2M, TV antennas > always land up pointing in the wrong direction. I've had antennas actually > rotate, winding the coax around the mast till it pulls off. Does anyone have > a tip for keeping antennas fixed to the mast? No matter how tight the U > bolts are, the wind aways seems to win in the end. > Article: 228880 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:01:34 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: My beams twist more than Chubby Checker References: <98udndK2Br5uVXLZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@insightbb.com> Message-ID: <4OydnbPz-sqBpW3ZnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@comcast.com> PIN Bob D. wrote: > Every antenna I ever bolted to a mast twisted. Tri-banders, 2M, TV antennas > always land up pointing in the wrong direction. I've had antennas actually > rotate, winding the coax around the mast till it pulls off. Does anyone have > a tip for keeping antennas fixed to the mast? No matter how tight the U > bolts are, the wind aways seems to win in the end. > Article: 228881 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:02:51 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: My beams twist more than Chubby Checker References: <98udndK2Br5uVXLZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@insightbb.com> <4OydnbPz-sqBpW3ZnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: <4OydnbLz-sr0pW3ZnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@comcast.com> SRI for the double post, I had a server hiccup. Dave wrote: > PIN > > Bob D. wrote: > >> Every antenna I ever bolted to a mast twisted. Tri-banders, 2M, TV >> antennas always land up pointing in the wrong direction. I've had >> antennas actually rotate, winding the coax around the mast till it >> pulls off. Does anyone have a tip for keeping antennas fixed to the >> mast? No matter how tight the U bolts are, the wind aways seems to win >> in the end. >> > Article: 228882 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:02:14 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > Continuing that metaphor, Cecil would believe having been born on > third base, that he had hit a triple to be there. ;-) That is actually the other side of the argument. When an observer arrived after the game started, Cecil was on third base. Using steady-state logic, the newcomer assumes that Cecil is there without ever having to swing a bat. Someone looks at a transmission line during steady-state. The source is supplying 100 watts. The load is dissipating 100 watts. The forward power is 200 watts. The reflected power is 100 watts. The incorrect assumption is that the source is incapable of delivering the 200 watts of forward power and the 100 watts of reflected power. But the exact amount of energy required to support those values was provided to the transmission line before steady- state was reached. It was rejected by the load and is still there in the transmission line during steady-state. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228883 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "L." References: <8PmFg.7890$oa1.1348@news02.roc.ny> <1155942039.645138.164160@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156044594.166730.207150@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:52:48 -0400 Message-ID: <44f04422$0$15493$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> wrote in message news:1156044594.166730.207150@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... > From: Slow Code on Fri, Aug 18 2006 4:26 pm > > >>2: The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. > > Wayyyy too low. 100%! Nothing less... > Hey now wait a minute, 85% is probably the absolute best he (SC) could do - thus making that the ceiling! So, if you make it 100% - he too wouldn't be licensed! DAMNED........... that would be a shame. :) L. Article: 228884 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: helmsman Subject: Re: My beams twist more than Chubby Checker Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:05:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1nh0f2tr79t5muv0vks4bpd21ahpan1tcn@4ax.com> References: <98udndK2Br5uVXLZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@insightbb.com> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:07:25 -0500, "Bob D." wrote: >Every antenna I ever bolted to a mast twisted. Tri-banders, 2M, TV antennas >always land up pointing in the wrong direction. I've had antennas actually >rotate, winding the coax around the mast till it pulls off. Does anyone have >a tip for keeping antennas fixed to the mast? No matter how tight the U >bolts are, the wind aways seems to win in the end. Weld it. KG8PM Article: 228885 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 26 Aug 2006 06:51:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1156600318.457925.98920@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: Cecil Moore wrote: > Al Klein wrote: > > David's choice was Spanish. My choice was a language one couldn't > > understand. Pay attention. > > Sorry Al, here's what you said: > > Even if you didn't know "ola" from > > "adios", you can copy Spanish in CW and hand it to the recipient, who > > can read it. Try that with a mic. > > Your words, not David's. You implied *Spanish* couldn't > be copied with a mic by a non-Spanish speaking person. > I showed that it can be done. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp I'll bet copying a message by voice from someone with the cyrillic alphabet would end up a lot better results than copying the same message with cw. Article: 228886 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44F05616.20801@fuse.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:09:26 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> > > > My MENSA membership number is 1006281. What's yours? What's your Social Security number? Article: 228887 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 26 Aug 2006 07:32:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Cecil, You've set up a false dichotomy here. When I, and others, write "The electric field is the superposition of a forward and reverse traveling wave" maybe it would be better to say "The electric field has two terms, one that appears to be a forward traveling wave and one that appears to be a reverse traveling wave." or something like that. There's one electric field vector and one Poynting vector. Or there are two. The structure of the electric field and the structure of the real part of the Poynting vector both admit BOTH explanations of what's happening. You're not gonna get 300J in your one second line.... the stored energy flux in the line depends on the wavelength of the incident RF, and in retrospect, you might expect this from the fact that a misterminated line goes through cyclical impedance variations as you change its length (something that I know you're quite familiar with :-) ) I think the energy density per unit length in the line is proportional to the Poynting vector (or it's integral over the cable cross section, and the proportionality constant is the group velocity of the waves, I think) I left Jackson at work, so I'm not certain right now. What I am certain of is that you can't take the energy in the forward wave and add it to the energy of the reflected wave and get that there are 300J in a 1 second line carrying a 200W forward wave and a 100W reverse wave. Rather, there's a 100W net forward power flux and THAT will give you the energy contained in the part of the field that's actually moving from source to load. The energy contained in the reactive part has an integral that's going to cyclically vary with the length of the line, and sometimes goes through zero (kL or kL - phi equal to an integer multiple of Pi... or any integer multiple of a half wavelength, which happens to be the length of an impedance repeating line, eh?) Dan Article: 228888 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Alan" Subject: Loft Antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:23:45 +0100 Message-ID: Hi I have had to short term rent a small house, there is a covenant on the property, not to allow outside antenna's, my beam etc is out of the question. I have a full size 5RV that I am happy to butcher if necessary, any ideas how I can use this perhaps for 20 or 10. I don't want any major work done as I should be moving again in the spring, I have very little here, just a soldering iron and a few PL's everything is in storage. Any quick idea's would be gratefully received. G7UEK Article: 228889 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bart Rowlett Subject: Re: Error correction Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:17:55 -0700 Message-ID: <44F06623.7020501@wb6hqk.ampr.org> References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> Reg Edwards wrote: > A correction - insert dt instead of dz. Another correction is in order. The resistive term should be i(z) * R and the conductance term should be v(z) * G. > > The fundamental partial differential equations of transmission lines > are - > > - dv/dz = R + L*di/dt > > - di/dz = G + C*dv/dt > > where volts v and current i are incremental functions of distance and > time, and z is incremental distance along line. > bart Article: 228890 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:19:41 -0700 Message-ID: References: <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:02:14 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >the newcomer >assumes that Cecil is there without ever having to swing >a bat. The "newcomer" must be defined in the IEEE dictionary as "dolt" given there are many possible solutions, and only a dolt (obviously not a fan) would come to only ONE conclusion and that one being the least likely in baseball experience. The fan sitting next to him, hearing this exclamation is undoubtedly squirming in his seat. That dolt has left unexpressed how, without swinging a bat, that the runner was advanced to third, or worse, that he got there on the basis of not swinging a bat alone - clearly a violation of laws of baseball. Let's consider another conundrum. The dolt, having arrived late, now perceives: 1. the returned, fielded ball held by the catcher standing on home; 2. three bases loaded with runners; 3. a runner on the base line; 4. the scoreboard reveals this is the bottom of the ninth with two outs. Are there 4 men in the transmission line, or only three with the mismatched termination at the load of home base? The dolt would tell the fan next to him four (using specious math); the fan would say none (using the laws of baseball). Solution = the umpire would agree with the fan - and the side retires, the game is over. In the transient end-of-state, it takes a few minutes before the dolt realizes 1. the solution; 2. he has no beer; 3. there are 75000 fans in the exits between him and his car; 4. Luigi is going to be waiting for him to cover his lost sucker bet; 5. he has no beer. Article: 228891 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Antenna wire Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: References: <5udne2hbro4lsmhg5d7kv0c5nb4bbglof3@4ax.com> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:39:46 GMT, Paul Hinman wrote: >As long as gravity exists will it ever be possible to get a perfectly >horizontal dipole? Hi Paul, If you read my further responses to Owen, you find the discussion of catenaries. In that regard, the answer to your question is unquestionably YES! You merely need to provide a catenary supporting the perfectly horizontal dipole. Regard any suspension bridge to discover the mechanics of construction. And, yes, the road bed is not horizontal, but an arc built to anticipate load; the ingenious antenna builder can reconcile this (trolley systems across the world with overhead suspended wires solve this easily). > The question for this relative neophyte is, >what effect does the sag have on antenna performance? Barring the suspension method, and the wire sags, it becomes a question of how much, and more importantly, in what relation to ground? If you have a 160M dipole with the ends up 10 meters, and a sag of only 0.1°, then you still have a dog. If it is a 10M dipole with a 10° sag, then you have a performer. This is a 100 fold variation that would seem to invert expectations - if were not for the wavelength and relation to ground. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228892 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Wayne" References: Subject: Re: Loft Antenna Message-ID: <_VZHg.648$N84.402@trnddc08> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 15:38:34 GMT "Alan" wrote in message news:B8CdndZtWqi3-G3ZRVnyvg@bt.com... > Hi > > I have had to short term rent a small house, there is a covenant on the > property, not to allow outside antenna's, my beam etc is out of the > question. I have a full size 5RV that I am happy to butcher if necessary, > any ideas how I can use this perhaps for 20 or 10. I don't want any major > work done as I should be moving again in the spring, I have very little > here, just a soldering iron and a few PL's everything is in storage. > > Any quick idea's would be gratefully received. > > G7UEK > Alan Why not just string a loop around the top of the highest room in the house, and feed it with a tuner. In the past I had pretty good results with this...not as good as a full sized outdoor antenna, but cheap and easy to install. --Wayne Article: 228893 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <1156512688.306777.324280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 15:43:29 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: [snip] > Some people on this newsgroup say that the wave reflection > model is invalid, that forward and reflected waves don't > have a separate existence. From QEX: "Contrary to popular > views, the forward and reverse waves on a transmission line > are not separate fields." It would follow that a laser beam > normally incident upon an ideal mirror results in a beam of > light not superposed from separate forward and reverse fields. > > I have challenged people holding those concepts to create a > standing wave without superposing separate forward and > reverse waves and have gotten zero responses. Cecil, I believe Dan has addressed this issue, and I am sure that I have on many occasions. When superposition applies, as it does in this linear, non-pathological case, there is no difference between the reality of the components vs. the reality of the sum. In other words, there is no more information >from your separation of a standing wave into forward and reverse components than there is in the standing wave itself. The standing wave is a perfectly good and complete solution to the wave equations applicable to this steady-state problem. It is possible to sub-divide in many ways, but there is no new information in doing so. If you want to specifically address transients then another set of equations will be needed. You have railed against seduction by math models on many occasions. However, that is exactly what you are doing here. Trying to create some new physical reality by manipulating the numbers. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 228894 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Gene Fuller Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <_qtHg.17293$gY6.8636@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1156560468.498975.25520@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <90_Hg.309266$mF2.97896@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 15:45:09 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Gene Fuller wrote: >> Try writing the appropriate equations for your puzzler, in steady state >> conditions, and then figure out where to insert the transient behavior. > > I have already provided the equations, Gene. In a one second long > lossless transmission line, 200 watts of forward power equals 200 > joules of energy in the forward wave. 100 watts of reflected power > equals 100 joules in the reflected wave. Total joules in the > transmission line equals 200 + 100 = 300 joules. The equations > are trivial. > -- > 73, Cecil, W5DXP > Cecil, Gee, somehow I can't quite pull the wave equations out of your "trivial" response. 73, Gene W4SZ Article: 228895 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Phil Wheeler Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 15:55:11 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Al Klein wrote: >> As I said in another post, try that in Turkish. Or Latvian. Or any >> other language you don't know a single word of. > > Sorry, you first challenged me to do that in Spanish. > I have proved beyond any doubt that I can do that. > Your need to suddenly change languages on me speaks > volumes. But in what language? ;) Article: 228896 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1156600318.457925.98920@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <_r_Hg.3919$q63.2642@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:14:50 GMT hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > I'll bet copying a message by voice from someone with the cyrillic > alphabet would end up a lot better results than copying the same > message with cw. I would like to see Al try to copy Japanese CW. Let's see, -.-. --.- would be "ni" "ne". Wonder what he would do with .-.-- and --.-. ? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228897 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <44F05616.20801@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:16:42 GMT jawod wrote: >> My MENSA membership number is 1006281. What's yours? > > What's your Social Security number? ... 66 ... 6 -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228898 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:45:28 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1156600318.457925.98920@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> On 26 Aug 2006 06:51:58 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > >Cecil Moore wrote: >> Al Klein wrote: >> > David's choice was Spanish. My choice was a language one couldn't >> > understand. Pay attention. >> >> Sorry Al, here's what you said: >> > Even if you didn't know "ola" from >> > "adios", you can copy Spanish in CW and hand it to the recipient, who >> > can read it. Try that with a mic. >> >> Your words, not David's. You implied *Spanish* couldn't >> be copied with a mic by a non-Spanish speaking person. >> I showed that it can be done. >> -- >> 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > >I'll bet copying a message by voice from someone with the cyrillic >alphabet would end up a lot better results than copying the same >message with cw. of course it would http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228899 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:45:28 -0400 Message-ID: References: <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <44F05616.20801@fuse.net> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:09:26 -0400, jawod wrote: > >> >> >> My MENSA membership number is 1006281. What's yours? > >What's your Social Security number? now there is a KOOK http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228900 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:45:28 -0400 Message-ID: <02u0f2lqea86qpr2mikak7n7k92crln5t3@4ax.com> References: <8PmFg.7890$oa1.1348@news02.roc.ny> <1155942039.645138.164160@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156044594.166730.207150@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <44f04422$0$15493$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:52:48 -0400, "L." wrote: > > wrote in message >news:1156044594.166730.207150@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... >> From: Slow Code on Fri, Aug 18 2006 4:26 pm >> >> >>>2: The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. >> >> Wayyyy too low. 100%! Nothing less... >> > >Hey now wait a minute, 85% is probably the absolute best he (SC) could do - >thus making that the ceiling! So, if you make it 100% - he too wouldn't be >licensed! DAMNED........... that would be a shame. :) but not wroth killing the ars over > >L. > > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228901 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Mark Moron Morgan" References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156336291.761443.49450@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156347507.188495.166660@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156422506.804963.308820@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156508566.946201.190240@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156521653.389923.238120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:46:13 -0400 Message-ID: <44f06dbb$0$8947$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "an old friend" wrote in message news:1156521653.389923.238120@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > kb9rqz_child_molester@yahoo.com wrote: > cease and desist > begin 666 kb9rqz.jpg M_]C_X `02D9)1@`!`0```0`!``#_VP!#``4#! 0$`P4$! 0%!04&!PP(!P<' M!P\+"PD,$0\2$A$/$1$3%AP7$Q0:%1$1&"$8&AT='Q\?$Q)!P>'Q[_ MVP!#`04%!0<&!PX(" X>%!$4'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX> M'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'A[_P `1" "K`(T#`2(``A$!`Q$!_\0` M'P```04!`0$!`0$```````````$"`P0%!@<("0H+_\0`M1 ``@$#`P($`P4% M! 0```%]`0(#``01!1(A,4$&$U%A!R)Q%#*!D:$((T*QP152T? 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Or there > are two. The structure of the electric field and the structure of the > real part of the Poynting vector both admit BOTH explanations of what's > happening. I know and accept both explanations. The problem is the other side refuses to acknowledge the validity of the wave reflection model. If you have gotten the idea that I reject the superposed wave model, you are mistaken. I fully accept both models. The problem is that others have rejected the non-superposed component wave model. I contend that one gets the same results using the components of superposition, i.e. the forward wave and the reflected wave, that one obtains after the superposition of those two waves. Others say that is an invalid treatment because superposition causes the reflected wave to cease to exist and the energy just "sloshes" around inside the transmission line. (Never mind that RF energy must necessarily travel at the speed of light and only reverses direction at an impedance discontinuity.) > Rather, there's a 100W net forward power flux and THAT will give > you the energy contained in the part of the field that's actually > moving from source to load. The energy contained in the reactive part > has an integral that's going to cyclically vary with the length of the > line, and sometimes goes through zero (kL or kL - phi equal to an > integer multiple of Pi... or any integer multiple of a half wavelength, > which happens to be the length of an impedance repeating line, eh?) That's one model. The other model is, assuming a purely resistive Z0, the forward voltage is in phase with the forward current and therefore there are no reactive vars in the forward wave. The reflected voltage is in phase with the reflected current and therefore there are no reactive vars in the reflected wave. This model works just as well as the one above, sometimes better because of simplicity. It has the advantage of being easily able to track the real energy because there is no "unreal" energy in the model. :-) If the forward wave component is analyzed separately, there are no vars because the forward voltage is in zero phase with the forward current (assuming a perfectly resistive Z0). The same is true for the reflected wave. So we are easily able to calculate how much energy is contained in those two waves devoid of any calculation of vars. Assume that we have a one megahertz signal into a transmission line that is electrically 360 degrees long, near lossless, the forward power is 200W, and the reflected power is 100W. I am willing to bet the energy contained in the feedline during steady-state is very close to 300 microjoules no matter how complicated the math used to get the answer that I just came up with off the top of my head. Note that the transmission line is one millionth of a second long and therefore contains one millionth of the energy of a one second long line. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228903 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Mark Moron Morgan" References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156336291.761443.49450@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156347507.188495.166660@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156422506.804963.308820@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:59:30 -0400 Message-ID: <44f070d1$0$8811$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty impoving my spelling do u hav anyting cognet two say? begin 666 kb9rqz.jpg M_]C_X `02D9)1@`!`0```0`!``#_VP!#``4#! 0$`P4$! 0%!04&!PP(!P<' M!P\+"PD,$0\2$A$/$1$3%AP7$Q0:%1$1&"$8&AT='Q\?$Q)!P>'Q[_ MVP!#`04%!0<&!PX(" X>%!$4'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX> M'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'A[_P `1" "K`(T#`2(``A$!`Q$!_\0` M'P```04!`0$!`0$```````````$"`P0%!@<("0H+_\0`M1 ``@$#`P($`P4% M! 0```%]`0(#``01!1(A,4$&$U%A!R)Q%#*!D:$((T*QP152T? 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Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:05:39 -1000 Message-ID: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> There are 2 noise reducing units on the market I am considering for purchase either one, MFJ-1025 1.5 - 30 MHz Noise Canceling Antenna and the Timewave ANC-4. A number of yrs ago I made my one and only purchase of "Mighty Fine Junk" and have'nt been back since. So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228905 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Loft Antenna References: <_VZHg.648$N84.402@trnddc08> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:10:59 GMT Wayne wrote: > Why not just string a loop around the top of the highest room in the house, > and feed it with a tuner. In the past I had pretty good results with > this...not as good as a full sized outdoor antenna, but cheap and easy to > install. One can also use more than one room. It might give a strange shaped loop but it allows adding more wire until resonance is achieved on the lowest frequency of interest. I once used 2 rooms and a hall for my 2nd story loop. +--------+ +--------+ | | | | | | | | FP +---------------+ | | | +---------------------------------+ How's that for a loop? Fractal? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228906 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 26 Aug 2006 10:14:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1156612481.049612.69040@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: Cecil Moore wrote: > hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > > I'll bet copying a message by voice from someone with the cyrillic > > alphabet would end up a lot better results than copying the same > > message with cw. > > I would like to see Al try to copy Japanese CW. > Let's see, -.-. --.- would be "ni" "ne". Wonder > what he would do with .-.-- and --.-. ? :-) > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp of course I suspect tht Al is old enough to think them Japs don't count for much Article: 228907 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 26 Aug 2006 10:15:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1156612522.790308.313150@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Cecil Moore wrote: > jawod wrote: > >> My MENSA membership number is 1006281. What's yours? > > > > What's your Social Security number? > > ... 66 ... 6 > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp you know I suspect it is from the PoV of the procoders Article: 228908 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 26 Aug 2006 10:24:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: I say it's 100 microjoules. 200W forward - 100W reverse = 100W net forward power. The percieved issue of some people not believing in the seperate forward and reflected waves just doesn't come in here... it's that the real part of the Poynting vector is REDUCED by reflections. If you want to contest this point then you need to tell me where the sign error is. If you have a constant voltage (constant electric field) output on your radio then this effect actually causes LOSS of power transfer through even a lossless line. You've got a 200W matched condition, power flux is 200W. You have 100W reflected wave, you get a net power flux of 200W - 100W = 100W. You can see this from the Poynting vector which is proportional to the difference of the squares of the electric field amplitudes of the forward and reflected waves. You can also do this with lumped circut impedance analysis too. If you can't bump Ef up by using an impedance matching network, the net power flux is REDUCED by the reflected wave, and as such, the stored energy in the fields in the line is ALSO reduced. If you can increase the forward electric field in the face of mismatch, you can push the 200W into the load. The reflected wave makes it so you need more voltage to push RF down the coax. Not 300 microjoules. 100 microjoules. The energy per unit length in the line is proportional to the Poynting vector. Dan Article: 228909 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <1156512688.306777.324280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <0E%Hg.11102$%j7.6303@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:35:56 GMT Gene Fuller wrote: > When superposition applies, as it does in this linear, non-pathological > case, there is no difference between the reality of the components vs. > the reality of the sum. I accept both methods of analysis. What I object to is people rejecting the wave reflection model. e.g. "Reflected waves don't really exist and don't really contain any energy." As in the earlier discussion about standing wave phase, you and I wind up on the same side of the argument. What I object to is the irrational conclusions drawn by proponents of the standing wave analysis. Here are some of the past assertions: Forward waves and reflected waves cease to exist after they have been superposed. The standing wave is all that is left. Question: If the components of superposition cease to exist, doesn't that mean the products of superposition also cease to exist? (No answer) Standing waves don't require a forward wave and a reflected wave. Question: How does one obtain a standing wave without a forward traveling wave and a reverse traveling wave? (No answer) > You have railed against seduction by math models on many occasions. I have railed against the assertions that superposition destroys forward and reflected waves such that they cease to exist in reality. From a recent QEX article: "I wish to emphasize the fact that the forward and reverse waves really do not exist separately, ..." So I ask you, Gene, if forward waves and reverse waves do not exist separately, how can they possibly be superposed? Seems to me, the above statement from QEX is a violation of cause and effect. If forward waves and reverse waves do not exist separately, how can they possibly be separated by a circulator? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228910 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:44:21 GMT Sun Tzu wrote: > So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why. Don't forget the ClearSpeech system. I have two of them and they really work. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228911 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Sun Tzu Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:58:25 -1000 References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: <44f07e60$0$8873$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:44:21 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote: > Sun Tzu wrote: >> So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why. > > Don't forget the ClearSpeech system. I have two of them and they really > work. tell mew about this system and where do I find more info on it -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228912 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <1156512688.306777.324280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:13:20 GMT n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > I say it's 100 microjoules. > 200W forward - 100W reverse = 100W net forward power. Sorry Dan, you are right about the power and wrong about the energy. There are indeed 100 watts of *net* power. But we are not talking about the net energy delivered to the load. We are talking about the total energy in the transmission line and there's no such thing (to the best of my knowledge) as negative energy. Forward traveling energy is positive energy. Reverse traveling energy is positive energy. The energy rejected by the load is NOT negative energy. Forward traveling energy and reverse traveling energy add, not subtract. Hint: Two energy components cannot superpose to a zero scalar value. The result is always a scalar sum. If we have 200 microjoules in the forward wave and we have 100 microjoules in the reflected wave, the total energy in the transmission line is 300 microjoules. If the standing wave model differs from that amount, it is wrong. > You > can see this from the Poynting vector which is proportional to the > difference of the squares of the electric field amplitudes of the > forward and reflected waves. True for net watts, not true for joules. In the standing wave model, there's 100 watts of net power containing 100 microjoules. The other 200 microjoules are stored in the (virtual) reactances. If you calculate the energy necessarily stored in the L and C of the line, you will find the other 200 microjoules. I would have to hit the books to refresh my memory on that calculation but any other result would violate the conservation of energy principle. > If you can't bump Ef up by using an impedance matching network, the net > power flux is REDUCED by the reflected wave, and as such, the stored > energy in the fields in the line is ALSO reduced. That applies to the watts. It doesn't apply to the vars. The actual voltages and currents are increased by the standing waves while the phase angle goes non-zero. Vars require real energy. That real energy can be calculated by knowing the current through a perfect inductor and/or the voltage across a real capacitor. > Not 300 microjoules. 100 microjoules. The energy per unit length in > the line is proportional to the Poynting vector. The energy per unit length is not proportional to the net Poynting vector which is (Pz+ - Pz-) (using Ramo/Whinnery conventions). The energy per unit length is actually (Pz+ + Pz-). Why that has to be true is contained in the conservation of energy principle and is the source of confusion for many posters on this newsgroup. Hint: Has anyone ever seen a quart of negative water? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228913 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <44f07e60$0$8873$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: <_d0Ig.11107$%j7.5218@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:16:26 GMT Sun Tzu wrote: > On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:44:21 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Sun Tzu wrote: >>> So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why. >> Don't forget the ClearSpeech system. I have two of them and they really >> work. > > tell mew about this system and where do I find more info on it A Google search turned up almost 10K pages for "ClearSpeech" including this one: http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/speakers/2980.html -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228914 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Sun Tzu Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:41:17 -1000 References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <44f07e60$0$8873$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <_d0Ig.11107$%j7.5218@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <44f0885d$0$8874$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:16:26 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote: > Sun Tzu wrote: >> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:44:21 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> Sun Tzu wrote: >>>> So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why. >>> Don't forget the ClearSpeech system. I have two of them and they really >>> work. >> >> tell mew about this system and where do I find more info on it > > A Google search turned up almost 10K pages for "ClearSpeech" including > this one: > http://www.universal-radio.com/CATALOG/speakers/2980.html thanks for the info but Heil Sound does'nt even show this unit on their website. I would think if it really works would'nt HS still have it on the website? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228915 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <44f07e60$0$8873$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <_d0Ig.11107$%j7.5218@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <44f0885d$0$8874$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 19:34:14 GMT Sun Tzu wrote: > thanks for the info but Heil Sound does'nt even show this unit on their > website. > I would think if it really works would'nt HS still have it on the website? I bought my two before Heil took them over. I suspect Heil priced the devices too high to be economically viable. I would recommend as an alternate - buying a used device. They really do work well. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228916 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44F0AD7C.3040301@fuse.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:22:20 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <44F05616.20801@fuse.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > jawod wrote: > >>> My MENSA membership number is 1006281. What's yours? >> >> >> What's your Social Security number? > > > ... 66 ... 6 Cecil, Are you REALLY the spawn of Satan? I'll kid with you no more! (Imagine me making the sign of the cross right now.) Article: 228917 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 26 Aug 2006 13:46:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: I'll find the book. I see what you're saying, but I'd like to work through in detail. What page should I be looking on?... I'll get back to you on Monday; Ramo and Whinnery's "Fields and Waves..." is in the UMCP library. Dan Article: 228918 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:15:09 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: <9NadnYT_g-VGJG3ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com> Clearspeech units do NOT keep noise OUT of the first RF stage. They operate as audio DSP. It is a totally different approach from either the ANC-4 and the MFJ 1025. I own both the ANC-4 and the MFJ-1025. These units use a separate noise sensing antenna mounted close to ground. Mine are about 20 feet long and about 3 inches above the ground. Both units use analog operational amplifiers to cancel manmade noise BEFORE the noise enters the receiver [before the first rf amplifier stage]. Operation is easier to describe in terms of two op-amps. Op-amp#1 adjusts the gain of the input#1 noise to match the noise level and inverts the noise signal. [-mmnoise#1 @ input#1] Op-amp#2 has one input from the station antenna that contains signal plus manmade noise [signal + mmnoise] and the second input from the noise amplifier [-mmnoise#1] that has inverted noise only. This amplifier algebraically adds the two signals [eg: signal + mmnoise - mmnoise]. The output of this amplifier has just signal. The manmade noise has been canceled!! In my station the ANC-4 is used primarily because it is simpler to use. There are only two adjustments, noise gain and noise phase. The MFJ-1025 has three adjustments, noise gain, noise phase and T/R delay [for QSK type usage]. I don't use QSK so I can't comment on this feature. Each unit has several push buttons for basic frequency range. Both units will easily reduce manmade noise, power line noise, switching power supply noise, noisy power insulators, Computer monitor noise, tv set noise, etc by 60 to 70 dB. A S9 noise level can be reduced to less than S1 approaching S0. Both units have a slight reduction in net RF gain of about 1/2 S unit. Either unit will allow you to copy a S1 signal in the presence of S8 or S9 external manmade noise [NOT adjacent channel QRM!!][They are VERY broadband noise amplifiers]. The ANC is physically smaller and has two adjustment and two push switches. The MFJ has three adjustments. I have not opened the case of either unit so I can't comment on construction quality. I bought my MFJ new from HRO. I bought my ANC off eBay. Why two noise cancellers? I have two HF rigs operating simultaneously in my shack. The ANC is my favorite because of ease of operation. It is on my IC-756 Pro III [basic HF rig]. The MFJ-1025 is on my 60 meter dedicated radio. /s/ DD, W1MCE Sun Tzu wrote: > There are 2 noise reducing units on the market I am considering for > purchase either one, MFJ-1025 1.5 - 30 MHz Noise Canceling Antenna and the > Timewave ANC-4. > > A number of yrs ago I made my one and only purchase of "Mighty Fine Junk" > and have'nt been back since. > > So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why. > Article: 228919 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Andrew Holme" Subject: Impedance of small delta loop Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:25:40 +0100 Message-ID: I've erected a delta loop in my back garden for general shortwave listening, with a total wire length of 75 feet, fed with 75-ohm coax via a balun. The balun is a 3:1 turns ratio transformer wound on a small red toroid from my junk box. The winding on the coax side is about 20uH, and the winding on the loop side is about 200uH. I've no idea how close to, or far from optimal this is. I mostly listen to hams on 40 and 80-metres. I've no idea what the impedance of my loop is on these bands. It would be useless for transmitting, because it's less than one wavelength, but it seems to work OK on receive. The noise level is certainly nice and low. My questions is: what is the impedance likely to be on 40 and 80-metres? TIA Andrew. Article: 228920 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Wayne" References: <_VZHg.648$N84.402@trnddc08> Subject: Re: Loft Antenna Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:37:41 GMT "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Dg%Hg.11098$%j7.6112@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > Wayne wrote: >> Why not just string a loop around the top of the highest room in the >> house, and feed it with a tuner. In the past I had pretty good results >> with this...not as good as a full sized outdoor antenna, but cheap and >> easy to install. > > One can also use more than one room. It might give a > strange shaped loop but it allows adding more wire > until resonance is achieved on the lowest frequency > of interest. I once used 2 rooms and a hall for my > 2nd story loop. > > +--------+ +--------+ > | | | | > | | | | > FP +---------------+ | > | | > +---------------------------------+ > > How's that for a loop? Fractal? > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Great idea....I wish I had thought of that at the time. The biggest loop I could get in the attic was for 15m, and it worked pretty well on 10 and 15. On 20 it was suffering, but still useable. The one downside was that RF got into my solid state heat/air control box and burned it up. A toroid over the input wiring solved the problem. Article: 228921 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Andrew Holme" Subject: Re: Impedance of small delta loop Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:35:23 +0100 Message-ID: "Andrew Holme" wrote in message news:... > I've erected a delta loop in my back garden for general shortwave > listening, with a total wire length of 75 feet, fed with 75-ohm coax via a > balun. The balun is a 3:1 turns ratio transformer wound on a small red > toroid from my junk box. The winding on the coax side is about 20uH, and > the winding on the loop side is about 200uH. I've no idea how close to, > or far from optimal this is. I mostly listen to hams on 40 and 80-metres. > I've no idea what the impedance of my loop is on these bands. It would be > useless for transmitting, because it's less than one wavelength, but it > seems to work OK on receive. The noise level is certainly nice and low. > My questions is: what is the impedance likely to be on 40 and 80-metres? > > TIA > Andrew. > More info: the feedpoint is at the centre of the base of the delta, the apex is supported from a chimney, and the other two corners are about 8 feet above ground, guyed off my back fence. The plane of the delta slopes. Article: 228922 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <44F05616.20801@fuse.net> <44F0AD7C.3040301@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:59:36 GMT jawod wrote: > Are you REALLY the spawn of Satan? How many 6's do you have in your SS#? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228923 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <1156512688.306777.324280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:04:20 GMT n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > I see what you're saying, but I'd like to work through in detail. What > page should I be looking on?... I'll get back to you on Monday; Ramo > and Whinnery's "Fields and Waves..." is in the UMCP library. You won't find exactly what I am saying in Ramo/Whinnery. I'm pre-assuming that you accept the conservation of energy principle. :-) My 1950's Texas A&M college textbook was, "Fields and Waves in Modern Radio", by Ramo/Whinnery, 2nd edition pp 284-296. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228924 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Antenna wire Message-ID: References: <5udne2hbro4lsmhg5d7kv0c5nb4bbglof3@4ax.com> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:22:02 GMT On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:39:46 GMT, Paul Hinman wrote: >wire might not survive. The question for this relative neophyte is, >what effect does the sag have on antenna performance? Yes, perhaps you got on the wrong tram in the discussion about sag. It would be easy if you hadn't read the entire thread. Low sag is obtained by high wire tension. High wire tension under static conditions increases the risk of breaking under wind loading. Antennas that have broken don't perform so well. Owen PS: In answer to your question as to whether a dipole can ever be perfectly horizontal, perhaps no, perfect is probably not achievable by any real thing, but yes, it can be done to a close approximation, but it is probably not practical in most situations. Think of an electric railway with overhead power, the power conductor is very close to constant grade and parallel to the tracks, think of suspension bridges with an approximately flat roadway. There are of course other solutions as well. -- Article: 228925 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Steve" References: Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: <6L4Ig.42248$1Z5.14933@twister.nyroc.rr.com> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:24:50 GMT YAWN.... "Slow Code" wrote in message news:Qh4Ig.10669$Qf.7020@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > were supposed to know morse code." > > Sc Article: 228926 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: Re: You'll certainly never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 26 Aug 2006 16:30:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > it anyway just in case. why? why is the fantastic ly unlikely something you should eb prepared for? Article: 228927 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: kooks on parade Date: 26 Aug 2006 16:32:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1156635164.623729.325600@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Slow Code wrote: > "an old friend" wrote in > news:1156612522.790308.313150@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: more kookery Article: 228928 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bart Rowlett Subject: Re: Error correction Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:36:38 -0700 Message-ID: <44F0DB06.8040005@wb6hqk.ampr.org> References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> Reg Edwards wrote: > A correction - insert dt instead of dz. Another correction is in order. The resistive term should be i(z) * R and the conductance term should be v(z) * G. > > The fundamental partial differential equations of transmission lines > are - > > - dv/dz = R + L*di/dt > > - di/dz = G + C*dv/dt > > where volts v and current i are incremental functions of distance and > time, and z is incremental distance along line. > bart Article: 228929 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brenda Ann" Subject: Re: You'll certainly never have to use CW to save a life. Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:25:14 +0900 Message-ID: References: <1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> -- Say no to institutionalized interference. Just say NO to HD/IBOC! "an old freind" wrote in message news:1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Slow Code wrote: >> You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn >> it anyway just in case. > why? > > why is the fantastic ly unlikely something you should eb prepared for? > Logically, the fantastically unlikely is the one thing you SHOULD be prepared for. According to Murphy, whatever can go wrong, WILL go wrong, and at the least opportune time. Article: 228930 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freid to some a nightmare to steve" Subject: Re: You'll certainly never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 26 Aug 2006 17:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1156638624.025614.40360@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: Brenda Ann wrote: > -- > Say no to institutionalized interference. > Just say NO to HD/IBOC! > "an old freind" wrote in message > news:1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > > > Slow Code wrote: > >> You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > >> it anyway just in case. > > why? > > > > why is the fantastic ly unlikely something you should eb prepared for? > > > > Logically, the fantastically unlikely is the one thing you SHOULD be > prepared for. According to Murphy, whatever can go wrong, WILL go wrong, > and at the least opportune time. Well I prefer to be prepared for the unlikely event that an Alein invader will be unable to read PSK 31 Article: 228931 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Impedance of small delta loop Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:48:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1nq1f217n9bcdrkc07193ti6seet186032@4ax.com> References: On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:35:23 +0100, "Andrew Holme" wrote: > >"Andrew Holme" wrote in message news:... >> I've erected a delta loop in my back garden for general shortwave >> listening, with a total wire length of 75 feet, fed with 75-ohm coax via a >> balun. The balun is a 3:1 turns ratio transformer wound on a small red >> toroid from my junk box. The winding on the coax side is about 20uH, and >> the winding on the loop side is about 200uH. I've no idea how close to, >> or far from optimal this is. I mostly listen to hams on 40 and 80-metres. >> I've no idea what the impedance of my loop is on these bands. It would be >> useless for transmitting, because it's less than one wavelength, but it >> seems to work OK on receive. The noise level is certainly nice and low. >> My questions is: what is the impedance likely to be on 40 and 80-metres? >> >> TIA >> Andrew. >> > >More info: the feedpoint is at the centre of the base of the delta, the apex >is supported from a chimney, and the other two corners are about 8 feet >above ground, guyed off my back fence. The plane of the delta slopes. > Hi Andrew, Your antenna's Z in the 40M band is astronomical: Impedance = 12740 + J 8376 ohms in the 80M band Impedance = 98.29 + J 1069 ohms Skip the lore about baluns (which you couldn't possibly hope to find/build/buy), what you need is a tuner and second smaller loop (think half the size) in parallel with the big one (to pull down that astronomical mismatch). 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228932 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bakb0ne" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 26 Aug 2006 18:37:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1156642643.135805.63280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > were supposed to know morse code." > > Sc I agree, they should learn it.. they just shouldnt HAVE TO LEARN IT... Article: 228933 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freid to some a nightmare to steve" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 26 Aug 2006 18:44:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1156643048.423952.247700@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: Bakb0ne wrote: > Slow Code wrote: > > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > > were supposed to know morse code." > > > > Sc > > I agree, they should learn it.. > they just shouldnt HAVE TO LEARN IT... I disagree but you postion is fair enough Article: 228934 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Just4Me" References: Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 02:05:30 GMT Don't feed this idiot troll! "Slow Code" wrote in message news:Qh4Ig.10669$Qf.7020@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > were supposed to know morse code." > > Sc Article: 228935 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 26 Aug 2006 19:09:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1156644553.849464.230210@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: Just4Me wrote: > Don't feed this idiot troll! why not at least it is on topic Article: 228936 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Sun Tzu Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:29:23 -1000 References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <9NadnYT_g-VGJG3ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: <44f0f62a$0$8851$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:15:09 -0400, Dave wrote: > Clearspeech units do NOT keep noise OUT of the first RF stage. They > operate as audio DSP. It is a totally different approach from either the > ANC-4 and the MFJ 1025. > > I own both the ANC-4 and the MFJ-1025. > > These units use a separate noise sensing antenna mounted close to ground. > Mine are about 20 feet long and about 3 inches above the ground. > > Both units use analog operational amplifiers to cancel manmade noise > BEFORE the noise enters the receiver [before the first rf amplifier > stage]. > > Operation is easier to describe in terms of two op-amps. Op-amp#1 adjusts > the gain of the input#1 noise to match the noise level and inverts the > noise signal. [-mmnoise#1 @ input#1] > > Op-amp#2 has one input from the station antenna that contains signal plus > manmade noise [signal + mmnoise] and the second input from the noise > amplifier [-mmnoise#1] that has inverted noise only. This amplifier > algebraically adds the two signals [eg: signal + mmnoise - mmnoise]. The > output of this amplifier has just signal. The manmade noise has been > canceled!! > > In my station the ANC-4 is used primarily because it is simpler to use. > There are only two adjustments, noise gain and noise phase. > > The MFJ-1025 has three adjustments, noise gain, noise phase and T/R delay > [for QSK type usage]. I don't use QSK so I can't comment on this feature. > > Each unit has several push buttons for basic frequency range. > > Both units will easily reduce manmade noise, power line noise, switching > power supply noise, noisy power insulators, Computer monitor noise, tv set > noise, etc by 60 to 70 dB. A S9 noise level can be reduced to less than S1 > approaching S0. Both units have a slight reduction in net RF gain of about > 1/2 S unit. Either unit will allow you to copy a S1 signal in the presence > of S8 or S9 external manmade noise [NOT adjacent channel QRM!!][They are > VERY broadband noise amplifiers]. > > The ANC is physically smaller and has two adjustment and two push > switches. The MFJ has three adjustments. I have not opened the case of > either unit so I can't comment on construction quality. > > I bought my MFJ new from HRO. I bought my ANC off eBay. Why two noise > cancellers? I have two HF rigs operating simultaneously in my shack. > > The ANC is my favorite because of ease of operation. It is on my IC-756 > Pro III [basic HF rig]. The MFJ-1025 is on my 60 meter dedicated radio. > > /s/ DD, W1MCE > > Sun Tzu wrote: >> There are 2 noise reducing units on the market I am considering for >> purchase either one, MFJ-1025 1.5 - 30 MHz Noise Canceling Antenna and >> the Timewave ANC-4. >> >> A number of yrs ago I made my one and only purchase of "Mighty Fine >> Junk" and have'nt been back since. >> >> So I need some input here. Which unit is better and why. >> >> you use an antenna thats 20 ft long would that be a dipole? 3 inches off the ground?? no kidding, any idea why so low? what kind of wire do you use to connect the noise unit to the antenna? would you say the units eliminate the noise equally as well? or does one seem to be better than the other? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228937 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "L." References: Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:43:53 -0400 Message-ID: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Yeah, me thinks you're right. This thing has dragged on long enough. It is getting boring. What IS - IS and until someone - like the FCC changes things - it shall stay as it is. No amount of bitching here will get it done. So, if you want a license, lump it and learn it. If not - its your loss. L. "Just4Me" wrote in message news:K57Ig.9546$JO5.5150@tornado.tampabay.rr.com... > Don't feed this idiot troll! > > "Slow Code" wrote in message > news:Qh4Ig.10669$Qf.7020@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... >> >> You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn >> it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it >> you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't >> ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams >> were supposed to know morse code." >> >> Sc > > Article: 228938 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: yangkunbo@hotmail.com Subject: about helix antenna design Date: 26 Aug 2006 20:01:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1156647690.003338.111720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Hi people: Does anyone could tell me how to calculate the number of turns required by given frequency? e.g. 2.4GHz. What are the factors that going to effect the turns? It would be so great if you can list some reference. Cheers! From Sun Aug 27 13:03:03 EDT 2006 Article: 228939 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:54:37 -0500 From: Kingfish Stevens <> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: about helix antenna design Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:54:01 -0400 Message-ID: <5h52f2pgq2fdn7799utbfsliddvl5u7cdh@4ax.com> References: <1156647690.003338.111720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.82.215.183 X-Trace: sv3-jW6BNxy9TH+GAlsaCnnSJYiYEBMo8CD61E7intMpy/KxCF5DXg9WwKtYaGSc7hGj5+/xCT7r1kyqb8P!XE+t5JJBWbVrciyC/l//NXGybYltYknH+1CQF6/09sKPELhrRGu/o6JQV753tZ2jiqmbJHeOrJJZ!5PdFwACE5lhG X-Complaints-To: abuse@ctc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@ctc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Path: news.unc.edu!elk.ncren.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!news3.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.ctc.net!news.ctc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news0.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:228939 On 26 Aug 2006 20:01:30 -0700, yangkunbo@hotmail.com wrote: >Hi people: > Does anyone could tell me how to calculate the number of turns >required by given frequency? e.g. 2.4GHz. What are the factors that >going to effect the turns? It would be so great if you can list some >reference. Cheers! Have you thought about using Google? http://www.jcoppens.com/ant/helix/calc.en.php http://vhf.worldsbest.com.au/Helix.htm http://www.vk2zay.net/calculators/?body=helical.php http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8092/ch3.html Article: 228940 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: switcher Subject: [For Sale]: Grundig 1972 portable, Philips receiver 999, French designed portables, SW, AM, LW, AIR band radio Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:35:17 +0200 Message-ID: It's all in the signature: -- I sell some old/antique radio's on ebay.. this week .. Pictures on http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/sell/radio/ My items on http://search.benl.ebay.be/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZmarkov035 Article: 228941 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Phil Wheeler Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156336291.761443.49450@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156347507.188495.166660@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156422506.804963.308820@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <44f070d1$0$8811$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:15:00 GMT Mark Moron Morgan wrote: > with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty > impoving my spelling > do u hav anyting cognet two say? > > > Pretty good composition for a giant rabbit. Article: 228942 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron Goldstein--KA2IIA) Subject: ANTENNA TUBING ANTI-SIEZE Message-ID: <44f12a95.76519@news.optonline.net> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:21:24 GMT Hi, I just got a used Butternut HF6V in great shape for a great price. What type of anti-sieze do I need to put between the sections of aluminum tubing ??? Is automotive anti-sieze OK ??? I don't think that it is electrically conductive. Do I need something like electricians use when they connect the aluminum service entrance cable to the breaker box ??? I think that stuff is called Penetrox. Is something like that available at Home Depot ??? RON....KA2IIA ======================================================== Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. Article: 228943 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:05:34 -1000 From: Rick Frazier Subject: Re: Can't find enameled copperweld antenna wire References: <1SlHg.215$5i7.2@newsreading01.news.tds.net> <1156443166.256082.270560@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > It's worth pointing out that copperweld, in addition to being superior > to house wiring, is CHEAPER than solid copper at the moment. > > Dan > Superior is a judgement call, and if you like it better, than it's superior for you. For myself, I prefer having the insulation on the THHN wire I use, as I can't always keep the wire "in the clear". Also, one of the reasons I gave up on copperweld was it's stiffnes and propensity to kink, making a weak point that invariably failed in relatively short time. Of course, living in an area with significant acid rain (living on the side of a volcano does have some drawbacks), it doesn't take much of an abrasion to compromise the copper coating on copperweld, and once that happens, rust soon follows, and down comes the antenna. (The PH of our rain here is around 3.5... Neutral is about PH 7 or 7.5. Just about anything that can will either rust or corrode here. Even tools in a closed cabinet will rust if you don't take them out and oil them fairly often, something nearly unheard of in most of the US. Whatever you use, the main goal is to get wire in the air and keep it there, so you can talk to the world. Whatever methond you use is up to personal preference, and that's one of the things that makes this hobby interesting. Good Luck! -- Rick AH7H Article: 228944 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: The Kat Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: References: <1156642643.135805.63280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:18:31 GMT On 26 Aug 2006 18:37:23 -0700, "Bakb0ne" wrote: WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread in a SCANNER newsgroup?? Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... Remove XYZ to email me Article: 228945 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: The Kat Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: References: <1156642643.135805.63280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156643048.423952.247700@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:18:43 GMT On 26 Aug 2006 18:44:08 -0700, "an old freid to some a nightmare to steve" wrote: WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread in a SCANNER newsgroup?? Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... Remove XYZ to email me Article: 228946 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: The Kat Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: <2sh2f2hkcuirus63lip4p54j34t0456aim@4ax.com> References: <1156644553.849464.230210@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:19:26 GMT On 26 Aug 2006 19:09:13 -0700, "an old freind" wrote: WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread in a SCANNER newsgroup?? Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... Remove XYZ to email me Article: 228947 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: The Kat Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: References: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:19:43 GMT On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:43:53 -0400, "L." wrote: WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread in a SCANNER newsgroup?? Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... Remove XYZ to email me Article: 228948 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:30:44 -1000 From: Rick Frazier Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. References: Message-ID: You've insisted on posting this crap so many times just about anyone with more than two or three brain cells would be sick of it by now. Why don't you just crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under? At this point, even a relative moron should get the point that there are a bunch of people that really don't give a damn about CW. That you do is not the point, but your continual posts about it are the point. Therefore, your continual posts lead me to believe you should be seeking mental help. If you don't think you need therapy, how about you get a life and if you are so Pro-CW, why aren't you on the bands right now? Though I'm an Extra and passed the CW requirements shouldn't make a difference if I choose to operate phone. If the requirements change and new Hams aren't required to take the code test, am I going to be pissed? Hell no, because I took the tests when I did because I wanted to be a productive part of this hobby, not wait for an easier ticket in. I learned it, just as a huge number of others have, but none of us wish to push it like you seem to want to. Even the most die-hard CW fanatic is spending his time on the bands, not on the internet trolling for arguments. Now, to provide a response to your query: It is extremely unlikely that with all the means we have for contact in the case of an emergency, that CW would be the only way to make contact, particularly if you live in anything near an urban evironment in mainland US. First and foremost, there has to be someone else that will respond to you, and given the things going on with the hobby lately, I doubt that CW will be the safety net you'd like to believe it is. For myself, I have HF and VHF in both the house and vehicle, and have the VHF radios all programmed with all of the local police and fire frequencies. In a true emergency, I wouldn't lose a moment's time worrying about whether it was legal or not before I keyed up on a public service/fire/police frequency if it meant saving somebody. Would CW help? Not very damn likely, as first I'd have to key up the HF rig, get to someone that could relay, pass a message, hope like hell that they actually did call the proper authority, (and were believed), and so on. You can bet I'll get attention right away if I key up on any of the public service frequencies, and they damn well will respond, if for no other reason than to find me. If that's what it takes, so be it, they can fight it out in court later, and I'd get so much media attention they wouldn't dare push it very far. On the other hand, the likelihood of actually being believed using standard, HF and CW procedures, or getting help in a timely manner to actually save a life is an extremely remote chance... I rarely filter anyone, but you've definitely earned the "plonk" of being filtered. Say Bye-Bye ! ! ! --Rick AH7H Slow Code wrote: > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > were supposed to know morse code." > > Sc Article: 228949 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "rover1" References: Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:34:00 GMT "Slow Code" wrote in message news:Qh4Ig.10669$Qf.7020@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > were supposed to know morse code." > > Sc ----------------------------------------------------- Here we go again boring or what Article: 228950 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "neok" Subject: Graphical NEC2 application for Linux Date: 27 Aug 2006 01:34:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1156667685.445635.296240@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Hi All, I just uploaded a new beta release of xnec2c, a graphical (GUI) application which incorporates nec2c, my translation to C of NEC2, into an interactive antenna analysis and visualization tool. xnec2c does not need and does not produce a NEC2 output file (unless requested) to visualize results like radiation patterns or frequency-dependent data. Instead, results produced by the incorporated NEC2 engine are stored in buffers and presented in graphical form as they are produced in the frequency loop (watch the max gain and VSWR plots grow before your eyes! ;-) ). All frequency dependent parameters that are displayed (including radiation patterns) can be re-calculated for a new frequency by either clicking on the graph of frequency-dependent data or entering the frequency in a spin-button widget. xnec2c now incorporates a basic NEC2 input file Editor that simplifies the creation and editing of NEC2 input files and speeds up the edit/save/reload cycle. This editor also hides most of the awkward details of the NEC2 input file and so reduces the need for detailed knowledge of this file's format. This is a fresh beta release of xnec2c and likely to have some bugs/annoyances but it was hard for me to code since I am under heavy pressure from illness in the family. However I will try to find time to fix new bugs, hoping xnec2c will become a useful graphical NEC2 derivative for Linux users. Look for xnec2c (and other ham radio apps) in my website: http://5b4az.mattsnetwork.co.uk/ Regards Neoklis Ham Radio Call: 5B4AZ QTH Loc: KM64MR My Website: http://5b4az.mattsnetwork.co.uk/ Article: 228951 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Howard K0ACF" References: <44f12a95.76519@news.optonline.net> Subject: Re: ANTENNA TUBING ANTI-SIEZE Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 03:31:36 -0700 I used GB ox-gard on my HF6V. Got it at Home Depot in a tube. Works great & it isn't expensive. You will find it in the electrical department. "Ron Goldstein--KA2IIA" wrote in message news:44f12a95.76519@news.optonline.net... > Hi, > > I just got a used Butternut HF6V in great shape for a great price. > What > type of anti-sieze do I need to put between the sections of aluminum > tubing ??? > Is automotive anti-sieze OK ??? I don't think that it is electrically > conductive. Do I need something like electricians use when they connect > the > aluminum service entrance cable to the breaker box ??? I think that > stuff is > called Penetrox. Is something like that available at Home Depot ??? > > > RON....KA2IIA > ======================================================== > Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. Article: 228952 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <1156647690.003338.111720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: about helix antenna design Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:38:10 +0100 Message-ID: >Does anyone could tell me how to calculate the number of turns >required by given frequency? e.g. 2.4GHz. What are the factors that >going to effect the turns? It would be so great if you can list some >reference. Cheers! ==================================== What type of helix do you want? End-fire or broadside radiation pattern? They are altogether different in construction. Article: 228953 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. References: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:27:32 GMT The Kat wrote: > WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread > in a SCANNER newsgroup?? Why in the @!#$% are you posting the identical objection five times in an ANTENNA newsgroup?? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228954 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Slow Code" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:53:40 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:UcgIg.13569$kO3.2071@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > The Kat wrote: >> WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread in a SCANNER newsgroup?? > > Why in the @!#$% are you posting the identical objection > five times in an ANTENNA newsgroup?? > Keep this crap out of rec.radio.amateur.policy!!! -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228955 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Date: 27 Aug 2006 06:34:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1156685665.122985.107360@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Phil Wheeler wrote: > Mark Moron Morgan wrote: > > with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty > > impoving my spelling > > do u hav anyting cognet two say? > > > > > > > > Pretty good composition for a giant rabbit. that isn't a rabbit don't insult those noble rodents that is mass of human DNA his name is Wismen lacking a life he trys to steal one and does that with it Article: 228956 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:35:42 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <9NadnYT_g-VGJG3ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com> <44f0f62a$0$8851$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: Sun Tzu wrote: REDACTED > > > you use an antenna thats 20 ft long would that be a dipole? > 3 inches off the ground?? no kidding, any idea why so low? > what kind of wire do you use to connect the noise unit to the antenna? > > would you say the units eliminate the noise equally as well? > or does one seem to be better than the other? > > The 20 feet long antenna is exclusively a NOISE SENSING antenna. It is used for the NOISE channel on the ANC-4/MFJ-1025. It is simply a wire plugged into the back of the units. Mounting it close to ground minimizes the HF/RF signals while picking up the manmade noise [mmnoise from my previous post] signals. The ANC-4 works very well with the short NOISE Sensing antenna. The MFJ-1025 works better IF the NOISE SENSING antenna is longer and higher [like a second HF antenna]. The MFJ states that it can be used to eliminate adjacent channel interference. I have never used it in this mode. [My ICOMS have an excellent ANF feature and DSP] The ANC is very easy to use [two independent adjustments]. The MFJ takes a little learning to use [three interdependent adjustments]. Both do work! If I had to choose one ... the ANC-4 ... ease of use and less noise antenna requirements. Article: 228957 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: You'll certainly never have to use CW to save a life. Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:17:46 +0100 Message-ID: I do happen to know the morse code. At one time I could do 30 wpm. But the chance that I shall see, in my lifetime, someone drowning in a river when I have with me a battery-operated transmitter, a receiver, an antenna, ground spike, and a morse key is about one in 10,000,000,000. I would be far more likely to plug in the microphone. In any case, by the time I had got the gear fixed up and made a suitable contact, the poor victim could have floated out into the Atlantic Ocean. It would be a good idea to dump the equipment and run downstream along the river bank to the nearest safety belt. ---- Reg. Article: 228958 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an Old friend" Subject: Re: You'll certainly never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 27 Aug 2006 07:36:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1156689418.644269.65060@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: Reg Edwards wrote: > I do happen to know the morse code. At one time I could do 30 wpm. > > But the chance that I shall see, in my lifetime, someone drowning in a > river when I have with me a battery-operated transmitter, a receiver, > an antenna, ground spike, and a morse key is about one in > 10,000,000,000. > > I would be far more likely to plug in the microphone. > > In any case, by the time I had got the gear fixed up and made a > suitable contact, the poor victim could have floated out into the > Atlantic Ocean. > > It would be a good idea to dump the equipment and run downstream along > the river bank to the nearest safety belt. nah you use the ground spike to achor your antenna to use as a safety line the tranmiter might make a decent grip might not and then go in and save the guy at least the troll is on topic is all > ---- > Reg. Article: 228959 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Slow Code" Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:40:15 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156336291.761443.49450@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156347507.188495.166660@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156422506.804963.308820@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <44f070d1$0$8811$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Mark Moron Morgan" wrote in message news:44f070d1$0$8811$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty > impoving my spelling > do u hav anyting cognet two say? > > You really are a moron mark morgan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Article: 228960 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an Old friend" Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Date: 27 Aug 2006 07:59:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1156690789.229110.282770@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Slow Code wrote: > "Mark Moron Morgan" wrote in message > news:44f070d1$0$8811$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > > with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty > > impoving my spelling > > do u hav anyting cognet two say? > > > > > You really are a moron mark morgan. the poster you are respondng to is a Mron or worse his name is Wismen his one wise act is to try and steal alife to replace his own Article: 228961 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jack Ricci" Subject: Re: You'll certainly never have to use CW to save a life. Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:04:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> > Logically, the fantastically unlikely is the one thing you SHOULD be > prepared for. According to Murphy, whatever can go wrong, WILL go wrong, > and at the least opportune time. "Brenda Ann" wrote in message news:ecqoj2$dhk$1@news2.kornet.net... ...That is exactly why I fill in and buy two identical 6/49 lottery tickets, and give one away to a cute waitress as a tip on our wedding anniversary. I love reverse psychology...Ooops! Wrong newsgroup... Jack > > > -- > Say no to institutionalized interference. > Just say NO to HD/IBOC! > "an old freind" wrote in message > news:1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >> >> Slow Code wrote: >>> You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should >>> learn >>> it anyway just in case. >> why? >> >> why is the fantastic ly unlikely something you should eb prepared for? >> > > Logically, the fantastically unlikely is the one thing you SHOULD be > prepared for. According to Murphy, whatever can go wrong, WILL go wrong, > and at the least opportune time. > Article: 228962 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Kurt Ullman Subject: Re: You'll certainly never have to use CW to save a life. References: <1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:24:40 GMT In article , "Jack Ricci" wrote: > > Logically, the fantastically unlikely is the one thing you SHOULD be > > prepared for. According to Murphy, whatever can go wrong, WILL go wrong, > > and at the least opportune time. > "Brenda Ann" wrote in message > news:ecqoj2$dhk$1@news2.kornet.net... > > ...That is exactly why I fill in and buy two identical 6/49 lottery tickets, > and give one away to a cute waitress as a tip on our wedding anniversary. I > love reverse psychology...Ooops! Wrong newsgroup... > > You're married to a cute waitress? Cool (g) Article: 228963 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Mark Moron Morgan" References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156336291.761443.49450@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156347507.188495.166660@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156422506.804963.308820@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <44f070d1$0$8811$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:52:47 -0400 Message-ID: <44f1b2b0$0$8889$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Slow Code" wrote in message news:ecsasj$la8$1@news2.open-news-network.org... > > "Mark Moron Morgan" wrote in message > news:44f070d1$0$8811$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >> with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty >> impoving my spelling >> do u hav anyting cognet two say? >> >> > You really are a moron mark morgan. > thank you four teh coplamant it more tahn a name two me I trie to look teh part two see? http://i7.tinypic.com/25rf8gk.jpg with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty impoving my spelling do u hav anyting cognet two say? begin 666 kb9rqz.jpg M_]C_X `02D9)1@`!`0```0`!``#_VP!#``4#! 0$`P4$! 0%!04&!PP(!P<' M!P\+"PD,$0\2$A$/$1$3%AP7$Q0:%1$1&"$8&AT='Q\?$Q)!P>'Q[_ MVP!#`04%!0<&!PX(" X>%!$4'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX> M'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'A[_P `1" "K`(T#`2(``A$!`Q$!_\0` M'P```04!`0$!`0$```````````$"`P0%!@<("0H+_\0`M1 ``@$#`P($`P4% M! 0```%]`0(#``01!1(A,4$&$U%A!R)Q%#*!D:$((T*QP152T? 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Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:00:10 -0500 Message-ID: <12f3gcmqb2pn8f7@corp.supernews.com> References: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> "Slow Code" wrote in message news:ecs4ko$ike$1@news2.open-news-network.org... > > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:UcgIg.13569$kO3.2071@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... >> The Kat wrote: >>> WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread in a SCANNER newsgroup?? >> >> Why in the @!#$% are you posting the identical objection >> five times in an ANTENNA newsgroup?? >> > Keep this crap out of rec.radio.amateur.policy!!! Not a chance. Your group is up for the Buster Urinal award. -- Suffer, unto me. Indulge, my every need. UV Count 1 Vote Mark Morgan for THICK AS A BRICK in August 2006! Vote rec.radio.amateur.policy for Busted Urinal in August 2006! Article: 228967 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an_old_friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 27 Aug 2006 09:11:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1156695103.276567.183050@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: DrDeath wrote: > "Slow Code" wrote in message > news:ecs4ko$ike$1@news2.open-news-network.org... > > > > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > > news:UcgIg.13569$kO3.2071@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > >> The Kat wrote: > >>> WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread in a SCANNER newsgroup?? > >> > >> Why in the @!#$% are you posting the identical objection > >> five times in an ANTENNA newsgroup?? > >> > > Keep this crap out of rec.radio.amateur.policy!!! > > Not a chance. Your group is up for the Buster Urinal award. ebing full of shit what use have you got a for a urinal busted or not? Article: 228968 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 27 Aug 2006 09:17:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> I've come around to that conservation of energy stuff ;-) I understand that your argument involves the energy that enters the line before it knows anything about the load, the energy that enters in an initial transient, but unless you can show that nothing happens during the initial transient to deliver some or all of that initial energy to the load, your argument has a hole. You're presupposing that there is some energy that enters the line during an initial transient that cannot leave until you shut the source off, so you get the 100J related to the 100W net power flow and 100J that went into the line before the source knew about the load.. and then there's another 100J that enters somehow? I guess to set up the reflected wave? The argument is circular. The initial transient supplies 200J of stored energy to the line so there must be 300J in a one second line if there's 100J in the steady-state fields associated with power flow. Since there's 300J in the line, the initial transient must have supplied 200J in stored energy. It's just not working for me. Dan Article: 228969 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Sun Tzu Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:19:49 -1000 References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <9NadnYT_g-VGJG3ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com> <44f0f62a$0$8851$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: <44f1b8ed$0$8952$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:35:42 -0400, Dave wrote: > Sun Tzu wrote: > > REDACTED >> >> >> you use an antenna thats 20 ft long would that be a dipole? 3 inches off >> the ground?? no kidding, any idea why so low? what kind of wire do you >> use to connect the noise unit to the antenna? >> >> would you say the units eliminate the noise equally as well? or does one >> seem to be better than the other? >> >> >> > The 20 feet long antenna is exclusively a NOISE SENSING antenna. It is > used for the NOISE channel on the ANC-4/MFJ-1025. It is simply a wire > plugged into the back of the units. > > Mounting it close to ground minimizes the HF/RF signals while picking up > the manmade noise [mmnoise from my previous post] signals. > > The ANC-4 works very well with the short NOISE Sensing antenna. The > MFJ-1025 works better IF the NOISE SENSING antenna is longer and higher > [like a second HF antenna]. The MFJ states that it can be used to > eliminate adjacent channel interference. I have never used it in this > mode. [My ICOMS have an excellent ANF feature and DSP] > > The ANC is very easy to use [two independent adjustments]. The MFJ takes a > little learning to use [three interdependent adjustments]. Both do work! > > If I had to choose one ... the ANC-4 ... ease of use and less noise > antenna requirements. thanks for all the info Dave. looks like the ANC-4 is the way to go. I have downloaded the manual for both. the noise sensing antenna that you use is it in a dipole configuration or like a long wire? what kind of wire do you use to go between the ANC-4 and the noise antenna? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228970 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. References: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:46:48 GMT Slow Code wrote: > Keep this crap out of rec.radio.amateur.policy!!! :-) rec.radio.amateur.policy was created to keep this crap off the other more technical newsgroups. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228971 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <1156512688.306777.324280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:36:35 GMT n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > I've come around to that conservation of energy stuff ;-) I'm glad - most folks here ignore it. :-) > I understand that your argument involves the energy that enters the > line before it knows anything about the load, the energy that enters in > an initial transient, but unless you can show that nothing happens > during the initial transient to deliver some or all of that initial > energy to the load, your argument has a hole. Let's return to the one second long lossless transmission line. From a 100 watt transmitter, at the end of second number one, the line will contain 100 joules and the load will have accepted zero joules. Since the load is rejecting 1/2 of the incident energy, at the end of the 2nd second, the source will have supplied 200 joules, there will be 150 joules of energy in the line, and 50 joules will have been accepted by the load. If the source is equipped with a circulator+load, this is steady-state with 150 joules of energy stored in the transmission line. At t=0: zero joules zero joules 100w--------one-second long feedline------load rho^2=0.5 Pfor=0--> <--Pref=0 Pload=0 At t=1: 100 joules zero joules 100w--------one-second long feedline------load Pfor=100w--> <--Pref=0 Pload=0 At t=2: 150 joules 50 joules 100w--------one-second long feedline------load Pfor=100w--> <--Pref=50w Pload=50w > You're presupposing that there is some energy that enters the line > during an initial transient that cannot leave until you shut the source > off, so you get the 100J related to the 100W net power flow and 100J > that went into the line before the source knew about the load.. and > then there's another 100J that enters somehow? I guess to set up the > reflected wave? Yes, at the end of the 2nd second, the source has supplied 200 joules and the load has accepted 50 joules. That leaves 150 joules left over that cannot be any place except in the line according to the conservation of energy principle. In a circulator+load system, we have reached steady state with 150 joules in the transmission line that will not reach the load until after the source is powered down. > The argument is circular. Proving that confusion exists. It's actually not circular. It's based on cause, effect, and the conservation of energy principle. I apologize if I have not explained it in a way that is easy to understand. Please bear with me. It's all linear cause and effect. With an ideal auto-tuner at the source, none of the reflected energy is accepted back by the source. Half the energy incident upon the load is rejected. There is no other place for the extra energy to be except inside the transmission line. I have an EXCEL spreadsheet that might help you sort all of this out. A copy of its output is available at: http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/1secsgat.gif -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228972 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:55:39 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Which is the better unit............. References: <44f07215$0$8904$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <9NadnYT_g-VGJG3ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com> <44f0f62a$0$8851$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <44f1b8ed$0$8952$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: If you can call a 20 feet long antenna a 'long wire', it is a 'long wire'. :-) Sun Tzu wrote: > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:35:42 -0400, Dave wrote: > > >>Sun Tzu wrote: >> >>REDACTED >> >>> >>>you use an antenna thats 20 ft long would that be a dipole? 3 inches off >>>the ground?? no kidding, any idea why so low? what kind of wire do you >>>use to connect the noise unit to the antenna? >>> >>>would you say the units eliminate the noise equally as well? or does one >>>seem to be better than the other? >>> >>> >>> >> >>The 20 feet long antenna is exclusively a NOISE SENSING antenna. It is >>used for the NOISE channel on the ANC-4/MFJ-1025. It is simply a wire >>plugged into the back of the units. >> >>Mounting it close to ground minimizes the HF/RF signals while picking up >>the manmade noise [mmnoise from my previous post] signals. >> >>The ANC-4 works very well with the short NOISE Sensing antenna. The >>MFJ-1025 works better IF the NOISE SENSING antenna is longer and higher >>[like a second HF antenna]. The MFJ states that it can be used to >>eliminate adjacent channel interference. I have never used it in this >>mode. [My ICOMS have an excellent ANF feature and DSP] >> >>The ANC is very easy to use [two independent adjustments]. The MFJ takes a >>little learning to use [three interdependent adjustments]. Both do work! >> >>If I had to choose one ... the ANC-4 ... ease of use and less noise >>antenna requirements. > > > thanks for all the info Dave. > looks like the ANC-4 is the way to go. I have downloaded the manual for > both. the noise sensing antenna that you use is it in a dipole > configuration or like a long wire? > what kind of wire do you use to go between the ANC-4 and the noise antenna? > > Article: 228973 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: The Demon Prince of Absurdity Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: References: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:11:59 GMT On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:46:48 +0000, Cecil Moore did the cha-cha, and screamed: > Slow Code wrote: >> Keep this crap out of rec.radio.amateur.policy!!! > > :-) rec.radio.amateur.policy was created to keep this > crap off the other more technical newsgroups. It would appear that the Busted Urinals of RRAP are trying to share the joy. Clueful posters will make tactical use of their killfiles. -- ________________________________________________________________________ Hail Eris! TM#5 Cardinal Snarky of the Fannish Inquisition No one expects the Fannish Inquisition! Vote rec.radio.amateur.policy for Busted Urinal in August 2006! Also vote Cletis Perkins for: Bolo Bullis Foam Duck Unabomber Surprise Goofy @zzed Babboon Joseph Bartlo "Pathetic Anal Pineapple" Award Article: 228974 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 27 Aug 2006 12:15:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1156706105.151984.167180@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: The Demon Prince of Absurdity wrote: > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:46:48 +0000, Cecil Moore did the cha-cha, and screamed: > > Slow Code wrote: > >> Keep this crap out of rec.radio.amateur.policy!!! > > > > :-) rec.radio.amateur.policy was created to keep this > > crap off the other more technical newsgroups. > > It would appear that the Busted Urinals of RRAP are trying to share the > joy. Clueful posters will make tactical use of their killfiles. just a kook Article: 228975 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Lloyd" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:23:46 -0500 Message-ID: <8pgve.fk7.19.1@news.alt.net> References: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1156706105.151984.167180@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "an old friend" wrote in message news:1156706105.151984.167180@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... The Demon Prince of Absurdity wrote: > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:46:48 +0000, Cecil Moore did the cha-cha, and screamed: > > Slow Code wrote: > >> Keep this crap out of rec.radio.amateur.policy!!! > > > > :-) rec.radio.amateur.policy was created to keep this > > crap off the other more technical newsgroups. > > It would appear that the Busted Urinals of RRAP are trying to share the > joy. Clueful posters will make tactical use of their killfiles. just a kook ... Pot calling the kettle black again? http://www.marksspamblog.blogspot.com/ -- Mark caught forging using Steve's name. "Steve's" post has headers: > X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org > X-Submitted-By: 66.82.9.42 Your reply contains headers: > NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.82.9.42 > Injection-Info: 38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com; posting-host=66.82.9.42 'Nuff said. Article: 228976 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <1156512688.306777.324280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:49:06 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > I have an EXCEL spreadsheet that might help you > sort all of this out. A copy of its output is available at: > > http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/1secsgat.gif The EXCEL spreadsheet corresponding to the above can be downloaded from: http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/1secTline.xls It includes a graph of forward power, reflected power, and joules stored in the transmission line. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228977 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: ANTENNA TUBING ANTI-SIEZE Date: 27 Aug 2006 13:35:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1156710908.451775.132580@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <44f12a95.76519@news.optonline.net> Antiseize for nuts from the auto store works fine.. denny Article: 228978 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Marco Licetti" Subject: FS: HP AGILENT 83525A (10MHz-8.4GHz) RFplugin (eg HP8350A/B, etc. SWEEP OSCILLATORS) - RF/Microwave, near-NEW (WORKING), CALIBRATED in 2005. Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:20:40 GMT HP-AGILENT 83525A (10MHz-8.4GHz) RFplugin (eg HP8350A/B, etc. SWEEP OSCILLATORS) - RF/Microwave, near-NEW (WORKING), CALIBRATED in 2005. Warranty. Do NOT reply on Newsgroup, if email: remove "death2spammers" strings in my address (repeated twice). Price $799.95 bu tPLEASE do check with Ebay listing first as I might revise it down (but not up - everyone else selling it for $950-1000, yet I want tobe done QUICK), shipping from Amplitech, Inc., New York, USA Posted on Ebay, item# 330022495597. Goto www.ebay.com and enter "330022495597" (without quotation marks) into search window (or item#, etc.); BUY NOW OPTION is AVAILABLE, i.e. NO need to wait for Auction end ($799 or revised down). Description is there (on Ebay), copied down here for your convenience, BUT to see ALL-SIDES PICTURES/etc do check that Ebay listing. Best done via Ebay - SAFE for you/me (my feedback is 100% positive there & 10+ years on Newsgroups), if you're not into Ebay and unless a bid already placed, I can take it off and sell outside Ebay. Description copied here (see pictures on Ebay): Concise description as you can GET DETAILED DESCRIPTION/SPECIFICATIONs/MANUAL at AGILENT website: ww.agilent.com ->search->enter->"83525A", or search for 8350A, 8350B, etc. as entire HP 8350 mainframes series takes these plugins. For your convenience two main specs are repeated here: Frequency range is 10MHz - 8.4GHz, max. level output 20 mW,+/-1.5dB, standard front in/outs, plus extra on backside: external MKR, RFout, PulseIn, ExtALC, plus a mysterious coax input I never used. 1. CONDITION is near-NEW, photo may show a dusty spot - that can be wiped off with mere towel (made photos in a hurry because was late @work, 5PM). PULLED FROM WORKING ENVIRONMENT at AMPLITECH, Inc. (www.amplitechinc.com), one of the best-known RF/Microwave companies - a spin off of Miteq, Inc. Stored gently in our environmentally-controlled lab, as we upgraded to 26.5 GHz plugin. REASON for selling - if you look at our website, products go upto 40GHz (65GHz with waveguides), became imperative to buy a different plugin in 2004, and sell this. Used for MILITARY & aircraft amplifiers testing until year 2004, assure you 100% working unit (idle). I'd rather get money than idle (to use that money for Network Analyzer parts, we need more than Sweeper parts). 2. CALIBRATION: expired in early 2006 - didn't need to calibrate an idle unit. Calibration may still be valid, but if you wish to refresh - calibrate yourself. If you wish ME to calibrate, it's not cost-effective, I might charge $250+ extra as it's a hassle to remove our 26.5GHz, calibrate this 8.4Ghz, then restore our plugin; so email me what you want. Best if you calibrate yourself. 3. As mentioned above, docs/specs/manuals are at Agilent website. People who buy Test Equipment are professionals/engineers - know specific model#, specs, or can quickly locate them. HP 8350A/B/etc are one of the most widely used legacy RF/microwave oscillators/sweepers/generators whose mainframes are designed to use such plugins. Thus often supported in modern Automated test Equipment software (HPIB, GPIB), multiple companies I worked for supported this unit in ATE software. Modern Agilent Sweepers offer this unit backward compatibility. For example, we controlled this 83525A plugin in HP8350A/B mainframe via GPIB (aka HPIB, IEE488) using ARKRF's software AUTOLAB, but any other will work. Could be also a nice secondary/backup Plugin for you. Article: 228979 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Reinhard Zwirner Subject: Re: [For Sale]: Grundig 1972 portable, Philips receiver 999, French Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:31:51 +0200 Message-ID: <44F21D57.64CF7A7D@t-online.de> References: switcher schrieb: > ... > http://search.benl.ebay.be/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZmarkov035 Shipment outside Belgium: EUR 110.- !!! SCNR Reinhard Article: 228980 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: ANTENNA TUBING ANTI-SIEZE References: <44f12a95.76519@news.optonline.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:15:36 GMT Couple other names Ideal Noalox (about $5 at home depot) and , found at a swap meet - Jet-Lube SS-30 copper high temp (cost unknown, got MOST of container for $ 2.00!) Also, several antenna companies sell their own versions, relatively CHEAP! Jim Ron Goldstein--KA2IIA wrote: > Hi, > > I just got a used Butternut HF6V in great shape for a great price. What > type of anti-sieze do I need to put between the sections of aluminum tubing ??? > Is automotive anti-sieze OK ??? I don't think that it is electrically > conductive. Do I need something like electricians use when they connect the > aluminum service entrance cable to the breaker box ??? I think that stuff is > called Penetrox. Is something like that available at Home Depot ??? > > > RON....KA2IIA > ======================================================== > Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. Article: 228981 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <_WpIg.1987$XD1.33@trnddc01> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:31:06 GMT And ever so slowly we creep up on the *actual* point.... pick a freq, pick a mode, pick a language, pick a moment in time. *Nothing* is perfect and CW or no CW, it's about circumstance, not code. Then again, you can back it up one more and acknowledge the foolishness of the whole CW argument. As it stands, hams are so crazy they somehow think they are the only hope for mankind. I pray that farce never becomes fact! Everything has it's place. Ham radio is a novelty. CW is a novelty within the same. That's all.... As long as there are 40wpm ops out there that can't program a radio, it's just a bunch of ding-dongs arguing amongst each other, looking like a bunch of ding-dongs. And it goes both ways.... no reason to ditch CW but this "my tapper is faster than your tapper" stupidity is just phallic and pathetic. Which finally brings us to the overall problem... As usual, the last word in any hammy hashing is the same. Control freaks needing to feel in control, and the subject matters not. That's why these goofy threads carry on forever. rb "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982888F69D0C1doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Woody" wrote in news:1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07: > >> >> "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message >> news:Xns9827B8D1F9112doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... >>> "Woody" wrote in >>> news:%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08: >>> >>> Did someone drop you on your head at birth? The reason 50wpm can >>> save lives is probably a bit complex for you to get both your >>> functioning neurons around, but believe me, having done CW for a >>> living for some decades I do know that it can save lives. And if >>> you're faster than the average bear at it, you can tell someone on >>> the scene things they need to know all that much faster. >>>> >> >> Possibly, because try as I might, I can't really remember much about >> that day.... I had pyloric stenosis, if that counts? >> >>> So apparently YOUR answer to this question is that you couldn't send >>> your name if your own life depended on it. >> >> Now that's true... I'd require a CW setup of some kind in order to >> send my name; or anything else for that matter. >> Or as previously pointed out, hack up a headphone jack and tippy tap >> the wires together. Either way, I don't see my life depending on it at >> any time, so I'll just let my CW skills continue to rust. >> However; your argument does make me wonder how non-hams even have a >> chance at life in this world... ?? >> >>> >>> Believe me, I get it. I don't think CW ought to be mandatory and it >>> isn't where I live. I do think people who intend to use it should >>> learn how to use it properly, though. For CW to be effective, both >>> operators must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend >>> barriers of language that only digital modes can get over. In my own >>> case, the fact that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit >>> once enabled me to render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were >>> other more routine examples of where the language barrier was crossed >>> by CW--many messages I copied were not in English at all, but were >>> readable by their end recipients). >> >> OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed >> with bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a Spanish >> test. Thanks a lot. > > My point is, my bad Spanish might not have recognized the word "fuego" if > it was spoken fast among a lot of other words. But on CW it came across > loud and clear. > >> As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it >> off to another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too. >> No CW necessary. > > Except you'll be a lot slower because you'll need phonetic spellings for > everything. Believe me, I know. I've done this. For a living for many > years. > >> BTW, I noticed you conveniently left out the specific year in which >> said burning boat was offshore with an obsolete CW outfit, and how >> your CW expertise put out a fire.... but I'm guessing we're talking >> many a year ago, so again, a moot point. > > Not that long ago, really. Early 1990's if I remember. > >> Actually, >> The boat thing in general is really killing me... If these numb-nuts >> are offshore and not on the correct USCG freqs and/or unaware of how >> to properly tune their radios in an emergency, then it isn't CW saving >> lives, it's the grace of God that somebody happened to be on their >> freq at that time. But again, what boats are out there with a CW >> rig???? That's crazy, bubba. :-) rb > > This was on 500khz (and 484). CW was the mode of operation on those > frequencies until well into the 90's. Cheap SSB radios were plentiful. > So were some SITOR lashups. But what finally killed it was INMARSAT. > > So now, instead of getting nailed by solar flares on HF, you get nailed > by them on INMARSAT and have to wait 6 to 9 months for a new launch. > Meanwhile you're limping along on SSB using a phonetic alphabet to send > traffic at a SLOWER rate. > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 228982 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:42:44 GMT Well... no, I got the point just fine. I can't imagine being surrounded by Spanish-speaking people needing a code interp, or being on a CW freq anyway, while some emergency happens to be taking place. And yeah, I'm elite like that... I have a gift for gab... just like a monkey can be trained to tap out a code of communication, I can parrot what I hear. It [or 50wpm CW] isn't intelligence in any way, it's just a stupid circus trick. Once again..... this wasn't or isn't the issue anyway... No one said there were no pros to the mode, just that the whole "save a life" thing is laughable. This argument jumps from an issue of speed, then to the generation gap, then to simple name-calling banter. It's quite humorous and totally stupid. Kudos to the OP troll! LOL rb "Al Klein" wrote in message news:rujpe2dfg6a35matc3fnrsauotja9co4lk@4ax.com... > On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:54:37 GMT, "Woody" wrote: > >>"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message >>news:Xns9827B8D1F9112doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... >>> For CW to be effective, both operators >>> must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend barriers of >>> language that only digital modes can get over. In my own case, the fact >>> that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit once enabled me to >>> render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were other more routine >>> examples of where the language barrier was crossed by CW--many messages >>> I >>> copied were not in English at all, but were readable by their end >>> recipients). > >>OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed with >>bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a Spanish test. >>Thanks a lot. > > I think you missed the point. Even if you didn't know "ola" from > "adios", you can copy Spanish in CW and hand it to the recipient, who > can read it. Try that with a mic. > >>As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it off to >>another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too. >>No CW necessary. > > Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well > enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not. > In CW, you can. Article: 228983 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:46:47 GMT Thank you. rb "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Bc8Hg.14495$9T3.3995@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net... > Al Klein wrote: >> Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well >> enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not. >> In CW, you can. > > Spanish words are easy to write even if one doesn't > understand them. In general, unlike English, there > is usually only one possible way to pronounce and to > spell a Spanish word. You hear "a-di-os". You write > a-d-i-o-s. You don't need to know what it means. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228984 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: Subject: Re: More 9m Monopole Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:46:04 +0100 Message-ID: "Frank's" wrote in message news:mokIg.17654$365.9204@edtnps89... > Reg, I think I now have a more accurate working program. > I am computing the E and H fields at only 20m, which > produces dramatically different results. Using > the Poynting Vector, S = 1/2*Re(E X H*), where > "X" is the vector cross product (H* is the complex conjugate > of H). Integrating |S| over a hemispherical region, of radius > 20 m, shows a radiation efficiency of 80.3%, and a radiation > resistance of 27.7 ohms. > > I have moved the test frequency to 8.1 MHz where the input > impedance of the antenna (99 x 10 m radials) is: > 34.523 +j0.18. This implies a radial input impedance of > 6.823 + j 0.18 ohms. These results appear to be much closer > to your program. =============================== I'm not surprised. =============================== > Of course, now I am starting to wonder > if I should not redo the computation at 10 m to see how > significant the ground wave losses are. Closer than 10 m > is probably not practical since I do not think NEC can > compute the near fields in cylindrical coordinates. > > The results also verify your comments concerning the > contribution of the ground wave to the total radiated > power. > The "Sky wave" radiated power represents > only about 35% of the total input power. ============================== This should have been obvious from the radiation pattern of a vertical antenna above ground. For all antennas less than 5/5 waves in height, maximum radiation always occurs along the ground, ie., at an elevation angle of zero degrees, ie., the ground wave. The take-off-angle computed by Eznec-type programs is misleading in this respect. ============================== > > My new Excel spread sheet contains over 4,000 active > cells, but is much easier to use than the previous method. > Using rotational symmetry, and other methods, the > NEC run time has been dramatically reduced. > I have also used almost lossless wire of conductivity > 1E12 S/m. Perfect wire crashes NEC when using > the "Numerical Green's Function" -- which helps speed > up calculations. > > To verify program accuracy I have computed the radiation > efficiency of an ideal 9m monopole over a perfectly conducting > ground. The results are accurate to within less than 0.25%. > > Obviously my previous results are no longer valid, So will > have to re-calculate all the test antennas. > > Frank ============================== To repeat - I'm primarily interested in the difference between the sum of (antenna + radials impedance), and the antenna impedance, at frequencies around 8.1 MHz and 24.3 MHz, corresponding to an antenna height of 3 metres. Thanks for keeping me posted. ---- Reg. Article: 228985 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:56:09 GMT And for the millionth time, all you control/speed freaks just don't get it...... If I could take down a message in CW at 200wpm in High German, guess what? It'll take me hours to locate a German to translate it. SO..... shot down yet again, a big burning ball of fire falling from the sky beepin' SOS till ya hit the water right next to a burning boat... Let's get back on point please. The question was if you had to use CW to save a life, would that person die? The answer is simple. If the person in question knows CW, then no, and if the person in question doesn't know CW, then yes. How hard is that? Why can't everyone keep to the issue? rb "Al Klein" wrote in message news:4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com... > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 02:32:01 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: >>> Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well >>> enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not. >>> In CW, you can. > >>Spanish words are easy to write even if one doesn't >>understand them. > > Ever try taking dictation at 100wpm spoken speed in a foreign > language? I have. Even in one I understand, it's difficult. In one > I don't understand it's impossible. Maybe you're better than I am. > >> In general, unlike English, there >>is usually only one possible way to pronounce and to >>spell a Spanish word. You hear "a-di-os". You write >>a-d-i-o-s. You don't need to know what it means. > > When it's spoken very quickly and in a panic, it's more like > "adhyose". Understandable, if weird looking, to a Spaniard. Try some > other languages, though - those you've never heard spoken before. See > how well you do. Then see how well you do in CW ... oh, you already > know that, don't you? -.-. is the same, whether it's hard, soft or > unpronounced. Whether you put a cedilla on it or not, a Spaniard will > understand it. So will a Turk, even though it sounds more like - -.-. > But would you write "Con" for something that sounds like Tchonn? Article: 228986 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:56:37 GMT Murderer! rb "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:M2jHg.10994$1f6.10742@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > Al Klein wrote: >> Ever try taking dictation at 100wpm spoken speed in a foreign >> language? I have. Even in one I understand, it's difficult. In one >> I don't understand it's impossible. Maybe you're better than I am. > > I can certainly write down Spanish spoken at my CW > speed of 13 wpm which is the whole point. If one speaks > faster, I may not be able to copy it. If one sends CW > to me faster than 13 wpm, for sure I cannot copy it even > in English. > -- > 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228987 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:00:17 GMT Hi-quality Maui Wowie bud, bra.... you know, da kine Mary-Jane.... rb "Al Klein" wrote in message news:t53se2hscbon17j983lqu2lr7lj7v3aqln@4ax.com... > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:52:28 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: >>> Ever try taking dictation at 100wpm spoken speed in a foreign >>> language? I have. Even in one I understand, it's difficult. In one >>> I don't understand it's impossible. Maybe you're better than I am. > >>I can certainly write down Spanish spoken at my CW >>speed of 13 wpm > > Really? You listen to people speaking at 13 wpm? What are they on? > It sounds like good stuff. Article: 228988 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:08:40 GMT Ok.... you just ruined your whole argument.... you're now comparing commercial and professional ops to amateur ops. What is your point? The issue here is hobby radio operated by hobbyists. The dark question has yet to be asked anyway... "Should amateur radio ops be held to professional standards?" Or maybe it's something about saving a life with CW... it's kinda muddy at this point.... rb "Al Klein" wrote in message news:jijse25f4a0kh8s97gt1daemi8q43mc6aq@4ax.com... > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:06:47 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: >>> Cecil Moore wrote: >>>> I can certainly write down Spanish spoken at my CW >>>> speed of 13 wpm >>> >>> Really? You listen to people speaking at 13 wpm? What are they on? >>> It sounds like good stuff. >> >>Your objection was that I cannot write Spanish at 100 wpm. >>I admit that but I know how to say "despacio" until they >>slow down so I can write it down. > > As I said in another post, try that in Turkish. Or Latvian. Or any > other language you don't know a single word of. > > But in CW, it doesn't matter - you write the letters as they come, > whether you know what they mean or not. In the Navy, we had to read > what we had copied to know what it said - the CW came in your ear and > went out your fingers, you didn't pay attention to it. English? Who > knew, until you read it? Article: 228989 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <1156468552.726523.209080@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:15:02 GMT Excuse me? If you are going to operate on a worldwide basis, you should be well versed on world languages so you don't have that problem. Ask any hi-speed op and they should agree. The funny part being most all foreign ops know English and most US natives are small appliance bulbs in a world of Xenon driving lights. rb "an old friend" wrote in message news:1156468552.726523.209080@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Al Klein wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:06:47 GMT, Cecil Moore >> wrote: >> >> >Al Klein wrote: >> >> Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> I can certainly write down Spanish spoken at my CW >> >>> speed of 13 wpm >> >> >> >> Really? You listen to people speaking at 13 wpm? What are they on? >> >> It sounds like good stuff. >> > >> >Your objection was that I cannot write Spanish at 100 wpm. >> >I admit that but I know how to say "despacio" until they >> >slow down so I can write it down. >> >> As I said in another post, try that in Turkish. Or Latvian. Or any >> other language you don't know a single word of. > >> >> But in CW, it doesn't matter - you write the letters as they come, >> whether you know what they mean or not. In the Navy, we had to read >> what we had copied to know what it said - the CW came in your ear and >> went out your fingers, you didn't pay attention to it. English? Who >> knew, until you read it? > if you get a message in turkish in most of the USA you still have a > useless message since where are yo going to find some that read the > lang > Article: 228990 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <3DqIg.891$N84.566@trnddc08> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:18:07 GMT Git'em Cecil.... I'm still wondering why he thinks we'd be in the CW band in the first place. I've killed millions with my lax attitude towards listening in, and figure I'll be guilty of genocide before I'm done! rb "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > Al Klein wrote: >> As I said in another post, try that in Turkish. Or Latvian. Or any >> other language you don't know a single word of. > > Sorry, you first challenged me to do that in Spanish. > I have proved beyond any doubt that I can do that. > Your need to suddenly change languages on me speaks > volumes. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228991 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:24:11 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <3DqIg.891$N84.566@trnddc08> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:18:07 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >Git'em Cecil.... > >I'm still wondering why he thinks we'd be in the CW band in the first place. >I've killed millions with my lax attitude towards >listening in, and figure I'll be guilty of genocide before I'm done! >rb becuase he needs to belive that CW is the sum total of Ham radio > >"Cecil Moore" wrote in message >news:20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... >> Al Klein wrote: >>> As I said in another post, try that in Turkish. Or Latvian. Or any >>> other language you don't know a single word of. >> >> Sorry, you first challenged me to do that in Spanish. >> I have proved beyond any doubt that I can do that. >> Your need to suddenly change languages on me speaks >> volumes. >> -- >> 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228992 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <1QqIg.1999$XD1.1838@trnddc01> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:31:57 GMT LOL.... I assume you think you've made a point at any time? It's a simple yes or no question.... If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Stay on point please. Sheesh, why would we be in the CW band in the first place, and then why taking down code or voice in a foreign language we don't understand? That Mister, *must* be the epitome of ham.... You know, there are children starving in South America, Babies being slaughtered at birth in India, and you think some stupid ham op parked in a chair in poshville USA has a clue about anything that really matters? Oh! I know CW, I know CW! I passed a message once and saved the world! And for the next 30 years I bumbled around in my back yard drinking beer, eating donuts and doing nothing for anyone except my own self. Arrogant Americans lost in space. That's thick. rb "Al Klein" wrote in message news:caste2livu1a8iqhpgd6hhfspi7ceki14j@4ax.com... > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 02:12:14 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: > > About your lack of content, yes. Article: 228993 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Chuck Olson" References: <1156647690.003338.111720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: about helix antenna design Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:36:45 -0700 Message-ID: wrote in message news:1156647690.003338.111720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Hi people: > Does anyone could tell me how to calculate the number of turns > required by given frequency? e.g. 2.4GHz. What are the factors that > going to effect the turns? It would be so great if you can list some > reference. Cheers! > There is quite a bit of on-line info on 2.4 GHz helix construction, and we built two of the versions that have the most complete photo and detail coverage (33mm and 42mm form dia). Neither worked worth a damn, despite all the effort put into their construction. Then we built the Biquad, which worked very well, and finally the can-type waveguide or "Cantenna" was the simplest and worked the best (use a 3/4 liter can that's 84mm dia, and at least 145mm long). The helix might be good if you have the ability to construct a self-supporting bare-wire helix, but the types wound on PVC pipes with vinyl insulated wire just don't work - - worse, actually, than the simplest 1/4-wave whip. Use a Wi-Spy Spectrum Analyzer to test performance with the antenna under test connected to your wireless router. A more accurate (but more expensive) arrangement is to use the Wi-Spy and an internal coupling antenna inside a shielded box, with a variable attenuator good to 2.4 GHz between the antenna under test and the Wi-Spy. Using this configuration, my results put both the Biquad and 84mm cantenna at +6dB, a 1/4-wave whip at 0dB, a 1/4-wave whip and groundplane at -3dB, and both Helicals at -7 dB. The Cantenna has better directionality and so was preferred over the Biquad. Chuck, W6PKP Article: 228994 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:38:53 -0400 Message-ID: <7oe4f2lr255om8j04n73e8v9e4023rals4@4ax.com> References: <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:36:43 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >Yeah, yoo big chikin. LOL > >I dare you to pick up a mic and do a radio test on 3.865 >by saying "Beep, beep, beep, beeeeeeeep"! > >rb well as a etech I realy should not try that one > >"an old friend" wrote in message >news:1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228995 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:41:09 GMT And as previously stated, slow equals death. If you can't do 20wpm you should stay off the bands. rb "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982A73AF43229doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > Al Klein wrote in > news:rujpe2dfg6a35matc3fnrsauotja9co4lk@4ax.com: > >> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:54:37 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >> >>>"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message >>>news:Xns9827B8D1F9112doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... >>>> For CW to be effective, both operators >>>> must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend barriers >>>> of language that only digital modes can get over. In my own case, >>>> the fact that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit once >>>> enabled me to render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were >>>> other more routine examples of where the language barrier was >>>> crossed by CW--many messages I copied were not in English at all, >>>> but were readable by their end recipients). >> >>>OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed >>>with bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a Spanish >>>test. Thanks a lot. >> >> I think you missed the point. Even if you didn't know "ola" from >> "adios", you can copy Spanish in CW and hand it to the recipient, who >> can read it. Try that with a mic. >> >>>As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it >>>off to another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too. >>>No CW necessary. >> >> Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well >> enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not. >> In CW, you can. > > I can do it (and have done so) using phonetics. But that's SLOWER than > CW. > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 228996 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:49:17 GMT "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns9828881EDA0doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > > Not an exact date, though it's probably in the archives of the Canadian > Coast Guard, my employer at the time. Bam... burnin' beepin' ball of fire trailing smoke to the white bubbly patch in the ocean.... [next to the beepin' burnin' boat]... Let's get with it people.... are we have a commercial radio argument or an amateur radio argument??? If commercial then we all agree, argument is moot. If amateur, it doesn't matter as it's just a hobby, argument is moot. Make up your mind folks. Either this is a stupid argument or it's a stupid point to argue. [hint: its the one that's stupid] rb Article: 228997 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:49:18 GMT So did your guy die or not? rb "Dee Flint" wrote in message news:COOdnQlYG6HvTnHZnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@comcast.com... > > "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message > news:Xns9828881EDA0doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > > [snip] > >> >> Now, today, we have such things a PSK31 to do much of the grunt work. >> That will work as well as CW in most cases, I find. >> > > Don't forget thought that solar flares and especially the aurora they > create induce a phase shift in signals and that wipes out PSK31. > > Dee, N8UZE > Article: 228998 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:55:01 GMT I thought it was illegal to change modes during the EMF stage... ?? You should be able to remodulate your carrier to offset the gravimetric effect on the signal as it nears subspace. I scavenged a modulator wheel from an electronic piano and work it with the left hand whilst straight-keying with my right, as obviously this can't be done with a keyer or bug of any kind. Manual manipulation of each character's component time/phase is a must to get a synch. rb "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982A7363CDCBCdoldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Dee Flint" wrote in > news:COOdnQlYG6HvTnHZnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@comcast.com: > >> >> "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message >> news:Xns9828881EDA0doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... >> >> [snip] >> >>> >>> Now, today, we have such things a PSK31 to do much of the grunt work. >>> That will work as well as CW in most cases, I find. >>> >> >> Don't forget thought that solar flares and especially the aurora they >> create induce a phase shift in signals and that wipes out PSK31. > > True, I've never had much success during 2 metere aurora openings with > anything BUT CW. It ain't CW by the time it gets to the other end, but > it's still readable there. > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 228999 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:03:21 GMT Good call. Admit nothing, deny everything. Hey, if you had to use CW to make chicken salad for a starving Latvian, would that person starve to death? rb > I'm not responsible for your perceptual difficulties. > > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 229000 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1153597502.509378.294260@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:05:49 GMT I think I saw him at a Star Trek convention once, does that count? rb wrote in message news:1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Tues, Aug 22 2006 7:14 pm > > >>LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >>> From: M...@kb9rqz.com on Mon, Aug 21 2006 6:30 pm >>> > wrote: >>> >>From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm >>> >>>LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >>> >>>> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 pm > > >>> Robesin is merely a product of the "incentive" licensing >>> system where all those who hunger for being a "somebody" >>> can get a Title - Rank - Privilege through a singular skill. >> >>If it doesn't have rank or a uniform, Robesin isn't interested. > > That certainly seems the case. The "uniform" is his > emperor's new clothes... > >>> I didn't make that system, neither did you, neither did >>> anyone in these four forums. The FCC took a big chunk out >>> of it (license classes and morsemanship skill) with the >>> Restructuring of 2000 and that pissed off the Title-Rank- >>> Status seekers. Devout morsemen are angry and venting steam >>> because their self-esteem has fallen. >> >>Only in their minds. They are the very same good or bad hams that they >>were with all the layers of hamdom. > > All of those "layers" hams are examples to the general public, > good or bad or indifferent. So? > > "Self-esteem" is a nice-nice word for EGO tied in with self- > perception. Trying to represent themselves as "expert" radio > persons in this new millennium is a rather stupid idea of those > devout morsepersons when they want to force the FCC to keep the > code test. > > Those who LIKE morse code should, and can, go on using it. That > is in no sense any validity for making it an amateur radio test > requirement for a license. > > >>> Simply amazing. EIGHTEEN years alleged on active duty and >>> he can't supply a single photo or document to support his >>> claim? In November of this year I can truthfully say I've >>> been in the southern California aerospace business 50 years. >>> I have all sorts of documentation and photos on that which >>> I may fully digitize some day (some are already digitized). >>> Some time ago I posted my resume in here...which only made >>> Robesin ballistic then since he has NO comparable >>> experience in industry and cannot prove any radio experience >>> other than amateur and alleged "chief operator" status at >>> some small MARS station long ago. [that was before his >>> less-than-a-half-year as a purchasing agent at a small >>> set top box maker] >> >>Yet as "chief operator" or ANCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa, he remains >>woefully ignorant of MARS. I just don't get it. > > It's easy to "get." He wasn't what he says he was. He hasn't > supplied a single bit of evidence to prove his claims. > > >>> In another recent post, Robesin keeps referring to a "CV." >>> That's an acronym for the Latin 'curriculum vitae,' a list >>> of life experiences (education, work experience). >> >>Maybe he meant "constant velocity" as in "CV joints" because he's >>always "spun up" about one thing or another. > > He tries to "spin" his claims to be the truth. Still no > evidence presented. > > Robesin used the wrong word/acronym for a RESUME' presented > as part of an interview for a job. > >>Robesin an academic? Not in this lifetime. >> >>It's just his inappropriate use of what to him are important sounding >>words and acronyms. > > Some of those he makes up as he goes along. > >>The rec.radio newsgroups have showcased Robesin. He HAS earned his >>reputation. He's worked very hard for it. > > He's hardly worked in radio. > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > Article: 229001 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1153597502.509378.294260@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:15:04 GMT >Never ever saw a >CAP in a flight suit before robesin's well advertised home page Big blue jumpsuits... never seen anything else... >, and a male nurses uniform. Wanna explain what a male nurses uniform is?? > > > Thought he had a "killer" job as a male nurse? Wow, that sounds rather condescending.... > >> Oh, I don't know. After a hard day behind the microphone, he's got > that 1,000 yard stare. > Yeah, those "real" radio ops really have it tough, don't they? There should be a reality show called "Two-Way Trauma: Life in the radio room." rb Article: 229002 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Lloyd" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:26:40 -0500 Message-ID: <8q5n3.ien.17.1@news.alt.net> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> "Woody" wrote in message news:FYqIg.36416$NF3.28742@trnddc05... And as previously stated, slow equals death. If you can't do 20wpm you should stay off the bands. rb Aw, fer Chrissake Woody, kwit yer cryin' and whinin'. Article: 229003 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:17:21 GMT Since I don't know this Robitussin guy, I really can't say anything in reply to this post.... rb wrote in message news:1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Wed, Aug 23 2006 7:46 pm > > >>LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >>> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Tues, Aug 22 2006 7:14 pm >>> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >>> >> From: M...@kb9rqz.com on Mon, Aug 21 2006 6:30 pm >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >>From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm >>> >> >>>LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >>> >> >>>> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 >>> >> >>>> pm >> >>> >> Robesin is merely a product of the "incentive" licensing >>> >> system where all those who hunger for being a "somebody" >>> >> can get a Title - Rank - Privilege through a singular skill. >> >>> >If it doesn't have rank or a uniform, Robesin isn't interested. >> >>> That certainly seems the case. The "uniform" is his >>> emperor's new clothes... >> >>Lessee. He's got a Marine uniform (he says). A Tennessee State Guard >>uniform (whatever that is), an ill-fitting Air Force CAP flight suit >>uniform, and a male nurses uniform. And he has lots of military medals >>that he never earned (according to him). >> >>You know, whenever I saw folks in the CAP uniform at any Air Force >>Base, including Maxwell, they work the 4b or Class A. Never ever saw a >>CAP in a flight suit before robesin's well advertised home page. > > In all my visits to USAF bases I've never seen any CAP > personnel there, let alone some in a poopy suit. I've seen > several civilians on USAF bases, employed by the USAF, wearing > flight suits and clearly identified as to being civilian. > > >>> >> I didn't make that system, neither did you, neither did >>> >> anyone in these four forums. The FCC took a big chunk out >>> >> of it (license classes and morsemanship skill) with the >>> >> Restructuring of 2000 and that pissed off the Title-Rank- >>> >> Status seekers. Devout morsemen are angry and venting steam >>> >> because their self-esteem has fallen. >> >>> >Only in their minds. They are the very same good or bad hams that they >>> >were with all the layers of hamdom. >> >>> All of those "layers" hams are examples to the general public, >>> good or bad or indifferent. So? >> >>> "Self-esteem" is a nice-nice word for EGO tied in with self- >>> perception. Trying to represent themselves as "expert" radio >>> persons in this new millennium is a rather stupid idea of those >>> devout morsepersons when they want to force the FCC to keep the >>> code test. >> >>Some do. Some don't. robesin does. > > He's a bad example for the morsemen. > > >>> Those who LIKE morse code should, and can, go on using it. >> >>Roger. > > Roger that. > > >>> That >>> is in no sense any validity for making it an amateur radio test >>> requirement for a license. >> >>No valid reason to maintain it as a barrier to the ARS. > > Oh, oh...in the PC (Political Correctness) of morsedom, > the code test cannot possibly ever be a "barrier." > > ALL "good hams" should WORK for their AMATEUR licenses! > > Those that won't are worse than river-bottom slime...:-) > > Trying to speak logically, the FCC grants amateur licenses > in the USA and even they proposed (via an NPRM) to eliminate > the amateur radio morse code test for a license. FCC is on > record of a couple decades ago that this singular manual > skill test does not tell them if a license applicant is > worthy of a federal license. > > >>> >> Simply amazing. EIGHTEEN years alleged on active duty and >>> >> he can't supply a single photo or document to support his >>> >> claim? In November of this year I can truthfully say I've >>> >> been in the southern California aerospace business 50 years. >>> >> I have all sorts of documentation and photos on that which >>> >> I may fully digitize some day (some are already digitized). >>> >> Some time ago I posted my resume in here...which only made >>> >> Robesin ballistic then since he has NO comparable >>> >> experience in industry and cannot prove any radio experience >>> >> other than amateur and alleged "chief operator" status at >>> >> some small MARS station long ago. [that was before his >>> >> less-than-a-half-year as a purchasing agent at a small >>> >> set top box maker] >> >>> >Yet as "chief operator" or ANCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa, he remains >>> >woefully ignorant of MARS. I just don't get it. >> >>> It's easy to "get." He wasn't what he says he was. He hasn't >>> supplied a single bit of evidence to prove his claims. >> >>Now it all makes sense. > > It was all one great big super-brag. > > > >>> Robesin used the wrong word/acronym for a RESUME' presented >>> as part of an interview for a job. >> >>Thought he had a "killer" job as a male nurse? > > God forbid! > > >>> >Robesin an academic? Not in this lifetime. >> >>> >It's just his inappropriate use of what to him are important sounding >>> >words and acronyms. >> >>> Some of those he makes up as he goes along. >> >>Probably how his career in the Marines was invented. > > Well, he might have been in the reserves? > > >>> >The rec.radio newsgroups have showcased Robesin. He HAS earned his >>> >reputation. He's worked very hard for it. >> >>> He's hardly worked in radio. >> >>Oh, I don't know. After a hard day behind the microphone, he's got >>that 1,000 yard stare. > > That's also a symptom of anoxia...lack of oxygen used up in > his bragging of what he did that never was... :-) > > Tsk, all that work he does in trying to bluff us. All he had to > do was present SOME sort of document proof or even a personal > snapshot taken while in that "hostile-action-filled" 18 year > "career" in the USMC. He hasn't done so after many years. > > If he can't present a single item of 18 years of his life, it > is hard for the rest of us to believe anything he said. > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > Article: 229004 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <8hv0f.csu.19.1@news.alt.net> <1156469995.033080.20480@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:19:06 GMT Me either. rb wrote in message news:1156469995.033080.20480@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > > RLW wrote: >> wrote in message >> news:1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Wed, Aug 23 2006 7:46 pm >> >> >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >> >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Tues, Aug 22 2006 7:14 pm >> >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >> >> >> From: M...@kb9rqz.com on Mon, Aug 21 2006 6:30 pm >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >>From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm >> >> >> >>>LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >> >> >> >>>> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sun, Aug 20 2006 2:57 >> >> >> >>>> pm >> > >> >> >> Robesin is merely a product of the "incentive" licensing >> >> >> system where all those who hunger for being a "somebody" >> >> >> can get a Title - Rank - Privilege through a singular skill. >> > >> >> >If it doesn't have rank or a uniform, Robesin isn't interested. >> > >> >> That certainly seems the case. The "uniform" is his >> >> emperor's new clothes... >> > >> >Lessee. He's got a Marine uniform (he says). A Tennessee State Guard >> >uniform (whatever that is), an ill-fitting Air Force CAP flight suit >> >uniform, and a male nurses uniform. And he has lots of military medals >> >that he never earned (according to him). >> > >> >You know, whenever I saw folks in the CAP uniform at any Air Force >> >Base, including Maxwell, they work the 4b or Class A. Never ever saw a >> >CAP in a flight suit before robesin's well advertised home page. >> >> In all my visits to USAF bases I've never seen any CAP >> personnel there, let alone some in a poopy suit. I've seen >> several civilians on USAF bases, employed by the USAF, wearing >> flight suits and clearly identified as to being civilian. > > Saturdays. They bring the kids in for a tour and a meal at the chow > hall. > >> >Oh, I don't know. After a hard day behind the microphone, he's got >> >that 1,000 yard stare. >> >> That's also a symptom of anoxia...lack of oxygen used up in >> his bragging of what he did that never was... :-) >> >> Tsk, all that work he does in trying to bluff us. All he had to >> do was present SOME sort of document proof or even a personal >> snapshot taken while in that "hostile-action-filled" 18 year >> "career" in the USMC. He hasn't done so after many years. >> >> If he can't present a single item of 18 years of his life, it >> is hard for the rest of us to believe anything he said. >> >> LenAnderson@ieee.org >> >> Well, doggone it, Lennie. Next thing ya know he'll be posting over the >> callsign of another Amateur. >> >> Nope...ya just cain't believe guys like that, can you Len? > > I don't believe his bs. > Article: 229005 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:20:14 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:17:21 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >Since I don't know this Robitussin guy, I really can't say anything in reply >to this post.... >rb count that amoug so blessings http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229006 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <8hv0f.csu.19.1@news.alt.net> <1156469995.033080.20480@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156478196.340076.306810@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:20:37 GMT So you guys got sidetracked and missed the CW call so both your guys died. You are the weakest link. Goodbye. rb wrote in message news:1156478196.340076.306810@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > rom: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Thurs, Aug 24 2006 6:39 pm > > >> wrote in message >> news:1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Wed, Aug 23 2006 7:46 pm >>> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >>> >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Tues, Aug 22 2006 7:14 pm >>> >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >>> >> >> From: M...@kb9rqz.com on Mon, Aug 21 2006 6:30 pm >>> >> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm >>> >> >> >>>LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >>> >> >> >>>> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sun, Aug 20 2006 >>> >> >> >>>> 2:57 pm > > >>> In all my visits to USAF bases I've never seen any CAP >>> personnel there, let alone some in a poopy suit. I've seen >>> several civilians on USAF bases, employed by the USAF, wearing >>> flight suits and clearly identified as to being civilian. >> >>Saturdays. They bring the kids in for a tour and a meal at the chow >>hall. > > OK, that explains it. :-) If I was on-site for some company > business, I wouldn't be there on weekends. :-) > >>> >Oh, I don't know. After a hard day behind the microphone, he's got >>> >that 1,000 yard stare. >> >>> That's also a symptom of anoxia...lack of oxygen used up in >>> his bragging of what he did that never was... :-) >> >>> Tsk, all that work he does in trying to bluff us. All he had to >>> do was present SOME sort of document proof or even a personal >>> snapshot taken while in that "hostile-action-filled" 18 year >>> "career" in the USMC. He hasn't done so after many years. >> >>> If he can't present a single item of 18 years of his life, it >>> is hard for the rest of us to believe anything he said. >> >>I don't believe his bs. > > Any rational, sane person can't believe his claims. Hopefully, > that is most of us reading some of the garbage going on in here > now. > > I found it uproarious that Robeson tried to cover up his NOT > naming a single military radio that was operational during his > alleged 18-year "USMC career," claiming "all the information is > classified!" :-) > > Absolute bullshit. The names, ID, functions have all been in > public view...the 'Public' being the makers or those wanting to > get in on an RFQ (Request for Quote) being advertised by the > DoD. Even though I never operated (as a civilian) anything > more than an old ARC-27 or PRC-119 SINCGARS, all the military > radios operational between the times of those two are easily > recognizeable to me (well, the VRCs have lots of differences > between families but the same case and general form). The > operating manuals are NOT classified, just in limited > distribution. LOGSA the Logistics Supply Agency is busy making > CDs of all the printed manuals for darn near ALL military > equipment; it's a piece of cake to pop one of those CDs in an > ever-present military PC and read them. LOGSA has a website > and even civilians can download some of the older equipment's > manuals. LOGSA has some internal priority on what can be > downloaded (depending on the cookie generated by a non-military > PC). That was a tip I got from rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors > and rec.radio.amateur.homebrew. The nomenclatures and quick- > look facts are on a couple websites in a long, long, long list. > Even BAMA has some manuals for free download plus big link > lists for other sites that have them. > > Robesin DID list some (questionable) nomenclatures for MARS > equipment once but NOTHING else. That kind of info can be > had from other hams' personal websites. MARS doesn't > normally talk about regular military tactical radio gear. > MARS doesn't normally use such. :-) > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > Article: 229007 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <8hv0f.csu.19.1@news.alt.net> <1156469995.033080.20480@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156478196.340076.306810@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156549551.368941.58010@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:21:54 GMT I saw a C-130 fly almost directly over my house last year. Couldn't see who was in it though... rb wrote in message news:1156549551.368941.58010@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: >> from: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Thurs, Aug 24 2006 6:39 pm >> > wrote in message >> > news:1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Wed, Aug 23 2006 7:46 pm >> >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >> >> >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Tues, Aug 22 2006 7:14 pm >> >> >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >> >> >> >> From: M...@kb9rqz.com on Mon, Aug 21 2006 6:30 pm >> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >>From: an old friend on Mon, Aug 21 2006 3:16 pm >> >> >> >> >>>LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sun, Aug 20 2006 >> >> >> >> >>>> 2:57 pm >> >> >> >> In all my visits to USAF bases I've never seen any CAP >> >> personnel there, let alone some in a poopy suit. I've seen >> >> several civilians on USAF bases, employed by the USAF, wearing >> >> flight suits and clearly identified as to being civilian. >> > >> >Saturdays. They bring the kids in for a tour and a meal at the chow >> >hall. >> >> OK, that explains it. :-) If I was on-site for some company >> business, I wouldn't be there on weekends. :-) > > I attended 3 weeks of CWPC training at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, > Alabama. It hosts CAP HQ. Didn't see any CAP uniforms there, either. > > Odd, though. The new owner of robesin's old vanity callsign, K4CAP, > resides in Montgomery, Alabama. > >> >> >Oh, I don't know. After a hard day behind the microphone, he's got >> >> >that 1,000 yard stare. >> > >> >> That's also a symptom of anoxia...lack of oxygen used up in >> >> his bragging of what he did that never was... :-) >> > >> >> Tsk, all that work he does in trying to bluff us. All he had to >> >> do was present SOME sort of document proof or even a personal >> >> snapshot taken while in that "hostile-action-filled" 18 year >> >> "career" in the USMC. He hasn't done so after many years. >> > >> >> If he can't present a single item of 18 years of his life, it >> >> is hard for the rest of us to believe anything he said. >> > >> >I don't believe his bs. >> >> Any rational, sane person can't believe his claims. Hopefully, >> that is most of us reading some of the garbage going on in here >> now. > > Some of the whacko Anon's have championed robesin's cause, whatever it > might be. > >> I found it uproarious that Robeson tried to cover up his NOT >> naming a single military radio that was operational during his >> alleged 18-year "USMC career," claiming "all the information is >> classified!" :-) > > Scuse me while I blow the pepsi out of my nose. > >> Absolute bullshit. The names, ID, functions have all been in >> public view...the 'Public' being the makers or those wanting to >> get in on an RFQ (Request for Quote) being advertised by the >> DoD. Even though I never operated (as a civilian) anything >> more than an old ARC-27 or PRC-119 SINCGARS, all the military >> radios operational between the times of those two are easily >> recognizeable to me (well, the VRCs have lots of differences >> between families but the same case and general form). The >> operating manuals are NOT classified, just in limited >> distribution. LOGSA the Logistics Supply Agency is busy making >> CDs of all the printed manuals for darn near ALL military >> equipment; it's a piece of cake to pop one of those CDs in an >> ever-present military PC and read them. LOGSA has a website >> and even civilians can download some of the older equipment's >> manuals. LOGSA has some internal priority on what can be >> downloaded (depending on the cookie generated by a non-military >> PC). That was a tip I got from rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors >> and rec.radio.amateur.homebrew. The nomenclatures and quick- >> look facts are on a couple websites in a long, long, long list. >> Even BAMA has some manuals for free download plus big link >> lists for other sites that have them. > > Too much work for robesin. So he just "classified" everything. He was > definitely confused by Major Vincent and his key on a necklace. Hah! > >> Robesin DID list some (questionable) nomenclatures for MARS >> equipment once but NOTHING else. That kind of info can be >> had from other hams' personal websites. MARS doesn't >> normally talk about regular military tactical radio gear. >> MARS doesn't normally use such. :-) >> >> LenAnderson@ieee.org > > If he was involved in MARS, it was probably just to eavesdrop on morale > calls from a lonely GI to his wife or girlfriend back home. > Article: 229008 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: NoCode Techs should have to pass the CW test in a year or get booted. Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:26:56 -0400 Message-ID: <4ih4f2tobvhvmimrv84knus16ibiorlq1h@4ax.com> References: <1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <_zrIg.11044$Qf.10314@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:23:06 GMT, Slow Code wrote:NoCode Techs should have to pass the CW test in a year or get booted. yes we know you want to kill the ars http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229009 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use microphone to save Markies life, would use CW instead? Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:27:29 -0400 Message-ID: <7jh4f2drip43pbscm57obu6i5su35t69g5@4ax.com> References: <44F05616.20801@fuse.net> <1156612522.790308.313150@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156635164.623729.325600@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:23:02 GMT, Slow Code wrote:If you had to use microphone to save Markies life, would use CW instead? we knwo you are filled with hate for someone you have never met http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229010 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156469420.301419.134990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156469844.402083.323040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:32:34 GMT Yeah, but with the VNER sanctions, you can't get the ALE to link up with them to start the whole CVAC anyway. rb "an old friend" wrote in message news:1156469844.402083.323040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: >> LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: >> > From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Wed, Aug 23 2006 7:46 pm > >> > Trying to speak logically, the FCC grants amateur licenses >> > in the USA and even they proposed (via an NPRM) to eliminate >> > the amateur radio morse code test for a license. FCC is on >> > record of a couple decades ago that this singular manual >> > skill test does not tell them if a license applicant is >> > worthy of a federal license. >> >> So what's the hold up? >>most likely the fact that some at the FCC wouldlike to plase the ARRL as >>long as it costs them nothing ut the cpsts are starting to build since >>NVEC realy needs to know soon what the general license involves so they >>can write the new pool > Article: 229011 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 27 Aug 2006 19:17:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1156731471.899303.75780@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > wrote in message > news:1156469420.301419.134990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > > I knew a SSgt that was also a Major. When he had on his Major Uniform, > > he strutted around escorting the JrCAPs to the chow hall to show them > > how it's really done. > > Cool, so he could wear one of each rank per shoulder and you can just call > him Sgt. Major. Yikes! > >> >> >Yet as "chief operator" or ANCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa, he remains > >> >> >woefully ignorant of MARS. I just don't get it. > > Uh, hello.... Looks like perfect qualifications for a management position. I like the way you think. > > He never thought that a mere Army or Air Force NCO would know anything > > about MARS. > > It's the 4th planet from the Sun, and there's a probe thingy driving in > uncontrollable circles around Deuphus Prime. Careful. You might get him excited with the probe talk. > > Very, very unfortunate for him. > > Not good for the probe either... Can't it be factory refurbished? > > Seven hostile actions, I'm told. I can't imagine being short-sheeted 7 > > times by members of my flight. > > > The marines can fly? I thought they were just to cover the beaches so the > Army doesn't get sand in their boots.... Welp, when the AF took the airplanes away from the Army in 1947... ...this guy named Sikorsky came along and sold them some helicopters. Anyway, they were a lot of fun and the idea really caught on. Now the marines have them, too. Robesin says he worked on helicopters in some capacity, and got hisself involved in 7 hostile actions. Article: 229012 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 27 Aug 2006 19:25:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1156731908.676838.260520@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > I saw a C-130 fly almost directly over my house last year. Couldn't see who > was in it though... > rb The aluminum skin of a C130 is sort of hard to see through. The only craft that I ever saw with a glass underbelly was a tour boat in Florida. But you can rest assured that neither robesin nor the CAP was flying that C130. Article: 229013 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: switcher Subject: Re: [For Sale]: Grundig 1972 portable, Philips receiver 999, French designed portables, SW, AM, LW, AIR band radio References: <44F21D57.64CF7A7D@t-online.de> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 04:49:14 +0200 Message-ID: In article <44F21D57.64CF7A7D@t-online.de>, Reinhard Zwirner wrote: > switcher schrieb: > > > ... > > http://search.benl.ebay.be/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZmarkov035 > > Shipment outside Belgium: EUR 110.- !!! > > SCNR > > Reinhard I know, I m not inetrested in ebay administrativo's... shipment in EU: 39 euro -- I sell some old/antique radio's on ebay.. this week .. Pictures on http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/sell/radio/ My items on http://search.benl.ebay.be/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZmarkov035 Article: 229014 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1156186858.857772.22110@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156376334.120034.171090@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <44ecd18e_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> Subject: Re: PING: Slow Code Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 03:28:52 GMT Why must we always PING people??? If we're gonna stay with the obsolete modes and terms, I remember that PONG was pretty cool and much more fun..... rb Radio content: Antennas work better if placed in an open area, high above ground. "Bill Turner" wrote in message news:44ecd18e_2@newsfeed.slurp.net... > an old freind wrote: > >> > > why do you want to kil the ARS? >> > >> > Why do you want ham radio to be like CB? >> >> why do you want Ham radio dead > > -----------------REPLY FOLLOWS----------------- > > Why do you ask these questions on an antenna newsgroup? > > Bill, W6WRT > > > -- > Article: 229015 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? From: Dave Oldridge References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 05:55:14 GMT "Woody" wrote in news:thrIg.2006$XD1.1601@trnddc01: > Good call. Admit nothing, deny everything. > > Hey, if you had to use CW to make chicken salad for a starving Latvian, > would that person starve to death? If you had to use either of your brain cells to think of some way to FEED a starving Latvian would that person starve to death? -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 229016 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? From: Dave Oldridge References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 05:56:16 GMT "Woody" wrote in news:cfrIg.2016$pX3.1819@trnddc07: > > wrote in message > news:2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:22:53 GMT, Dave Oldridge >> wrote: > >> where did you encounter total stupidity? I missed it I saw someone >> >>> > > Uhhhh...... Start with the OP and read to this point or beyond.... Gee, which of your brain cells thought that one up? -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 229017 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? From: Dave Oldridge References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <1156371787.106622.88700@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 06:04:21 GMT "an old freind" wrote in news:1156371787.106622.88700@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com: > > Al Klein wrote: >> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:54:37 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >> >> >"Dave Oldridge" wrote in message >> >news:Xns9827B8D1F9112doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... >> >> For CW to be effective, both operators >> >> must be competent. IF they are, they can often transcend barriers >> >> of language that only digital modes can get over. In my own case, >> >> the fact that I could read CW and read written Spanish a bit once >> >> enabled me to render aid to a burning fishing boat. (There were >> >> other more routine examples of where the language barrier was >> >> crossed by CW--many messages I copied were not in English at all, >> >> but were readable by their end recipients). >> >> >OK.... so by your own words, CW still didn't save a life... CW mixed >> >with bad Spanish passed a message. So now we'll have to add a >> >Spanish test. Thanks a lot. >> >> I think you missed the point. Even if you didn't know "ola" from >> "adios", you can copy Spanish in CW and hand it to the recipient, who >> can read it. Try that with a mic. > I do that firaly well as long as it is a a langauge fro gruop I know I > can take down serbian in crylllic even though I don't what they are > saying it is simply a skill For that matter I hear and resend Morse > as long as I don't try to decipher it >> >> >As for the language thing.... I can copy voice language and hand it >> >off to another native just as easy and they'll figure it out too. >> >No CW necessary. >> >> Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well >> enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not. >> In CW, you can. > > YOU can and you then claim that you have that skill it is valid > > your values in the ARS refuse to accept that notion different strokes > for different folks > > If instead of CW testng we had a choice a various tests to take that > would stand muster the current value Morse well outside of it value > withut even realy testing its abilty to do a QSO were the test based > sending and receiveing where the receiveing could send bak pse senf > all after ... and before what then take a test to show that he was > able to comincate the test would have more vailiity but it doesn't the > CW tests do noy even show that the testee can use CW over the air We have three tests her in Canada now. The Basic gets you on the air. If you get an 80% or higher score you get HF privileges with that. You're limited in power and must use commercially built, approved gear. If you want to roll your own gear or put up a repeater or something, then write the Advanced. You'll get full HF privileges. If you want to be known as morse proficient, then take the code test. That will get you on HF even if you just PASSED your Basic. But if you already have the Advanced, then it will get you a nic shiny morse endorsement and a sense of accomplishment. And no, the sky didn't fall any further than it already did when we dropped the code requirement for Basic and made it VHF only. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 229018 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "K4YZ" Subject: Lennie Confuses His Amateur Radio Rant's for His Marital Bed Again Date: 28 Aug 2006 00:18:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1156749480.288516.254860@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > Let's get you to a > cryogenic chamber and FREEZE you and your longing for > times of your youth. You want everything FROZEN, don't > you? Cool? Cool... Poor Lennie...All that make-believe experience going to waste on a make-believe life. Steve, K4YZ Article: 229019 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Lloyd" Subject: Re: Lennie Confuses His Amateur Radio Rant's for His Marital Bed Again Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 03:44:15 -0500 Message-ID: <8qscc.gn7.19.1@news.alt.net> References: <8PmFg.7890$oa1.1348@news02.roc.ny> <1155942039.645138.164160@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156044594.166730.207150@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156749480.288516.254860@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "K4YZ" wrote in message news:1156749480.288516.254860@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > Let's get you to a > cryogenic chamber and FREEZE you and your longing for > times of your youth. You want everything FROZEN, don't > you? Cool? Cool... Poor Lennie...All that make-believe experience going to waste on a make-believe life. Steve, K4YZ (but..but...his wife has two Masters degrees in the medical arena...doesn't that count for something?) Article: 229020 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: yangkunbo@hotmail.com Subject: Re: about helix antenna design Date: 28 Aug 2006 03:03:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1156759403.340524.116520@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1156647690.003338.111720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> I think i would like to choose end fire pattern. because it's construction is relatively noncritical. Cheers! Reg Edwards wrote: > >Does anyone could tell me how to calculate the number of turns > >required by given frequency? e.g. 2.4GHz. What are the factors that > >going to effect the turns? It would be so great if you can list some > >reference. Cheers! > ==================================== > > What type of helix do you want? > > End-fire or broadside radiation pattern? > > They are altogether different in construction. Article: 229021 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: Lennie Confuses His Amateur Radio Rant's for His Marital Bed Again< References: K4YZ wrote: > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > > Let's get you to a > > cryogenic chamber and FREEZE you and your longing for > > times of your youth. You want everything FROZEN, don't > > you? Cool? Cool... > > Poor Lennie...All that make-believe experience going to waste on a > make-believe life. is Amy Fireproof? Article: 229022 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Wimpie" Subject: Re: Impedance of small delta loop Date: 28 Aug 2006 06:49:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1156772949.619964.282680@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: Hello Andrew. About your 75ft (22.86m) delta loop (vertical above ground). For 80m, the loop is relatively small, so you can omit transmission line effects (to get an approximate value). The impedance consists of the wire resistance, radiation resistance and the inductance. I expect the inductance to be about 28uH and the radiation resistance about 0.8 Ohm (series equivalent circuit). So your loop behaves at 80m as an inductance with impedance of about j660 Ohms. When you connect this to a 75 ohm line (via a 1:1balun). Most of the induced voltage falls across the inductance. Using a 3:1 balun will give a significant improvement (in order of 6dB). Now the load for the loop is about 700 Ohms. In fact, your balun is good for 80m. You may reduce the turns, since a reduction of the primary inductance to about 100uH is no problem. Reducing the turns may reduce capacitance between the windings improving balance. If the noise that you are receiving is above that of your receiver, everything is OK. You do not need an antenna tuner. Don't worry about mismatch. The only need for a tunable filter or antenna tuner is to reject strong signals that may overload your receiver. For 40m the situation is a somewhat different. Now the wire length is about half a wavelength and the current will not be uniform anymore, so general inductance and radiation resistance formulas do not apply. It is possible that the capacitance between the wire ends (also via ground) may reduce the self resonant frequency of the loop. Your antenna may be capacitive. I think the best way is to find out whether the received noise exceeds the receiver's noise floor. If at 40m still the received noise is dominant, your antenna is OK. Don't be afraid of mismatch. If performance is worse at 40, you may increase the turns ratio. Make sure that your balun is constructed well to avoid that interference coming from domestic equipment is guided to your loop via common mode transmission along your 75 Ohms cable. If the signals and noise are far above the receiver's noise floor (check with attenuator), you may decrease the size of the loop. This will give better performance on the higher frequencies. Since inductance reduces more then the received output voltage. With respect to transmitting, you can convert such a loop into a narrow band transmitting loop. In that case you need a tuner to correct the mismatch. The mismatch is that worse, that if you would correct the mismatch just behind the transmitter, most power will be dissipated inside the balun and or the 75 Ohms cable. In that case tuning the loop in combination with a inductive coupling will give good results (even for this loop). The disadvantage of this setup is that your tuning capacitor must be located at the loop. Andrew, I hope this information will help you somewhat. Best Regards and Good SW listening. Wim Telkamp PA3DJS Article: 229023 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <1156512688.306777.324280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:55:01 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> I have an EXCEL spreadsheet that might help you >> sort all of this out. A copy of its output is available at: >> >> http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/1secsgat.gif > > The EXCEL spreadsheet corresponding to the above can be > downloaded from: http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/1secTline.xls > It includes a graph of forward power, reflected power, > and joules stored in the transmission line. I have enhanced that spreadsheet such that the resistive load on the one second long lossless 50 ohm feedline is a variable entered by the user. Please note the graph of forward power, reflected power, and joules stored in the feedline (chart1). The enhanced file is available at: http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/1secline.xls -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229024 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 28 Aug 2006 10:14:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Cecil, Have you included the fact that the *source* is properly terminating the line on its end? The source can accept power from the reflected wave, right? Dan Article: 229025 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: Impedance of small delta loop Date: 28 Aug 2006 17:24:36 GMT Message-ID: References: On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:25:40 +0100, Andrew Holme wrote: > My questions is: > what is the impedance likely to be on 40 and 80-metres? Different. Article: 229026 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Pete" Subject: Re: Sommer versus SteppIR Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:46:19 +0200 Message-ID: References: <8e917$44e765ad$453d9423$8718@FUSE.NET> <1156131770.320326.41130@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <44E92CE5.10502@fuse.net> <44ebc755.60522765@news.optonline.net> <12es30960kl9435@corp.supernews.com> My ISP has just re-connected the usenet feed after cutting it on Friday. It seems it happens each month? Go figure! Anyway: Thanks for the feedback on the 6m elements and the 4 ele SteppIR. I want to go for the 3 ele. with 6m passive ele. because the boom length is the same as my existing beam. I could (just about) fit a MonstIR into the yard, but I don't want to get a beam antenna that big. My neighbours have come to terms with the metal monster, as-is. If it got even bigger, I think I would have a bit of a problem with them. I can always change it to the 4 element and then maybe the MonstIR so they would have the antenna 'grow' on them. My tower is tilt-over and crank-up so antenna work is quite a bit easier than climbing each time. My current beam has a rotatable dipole on 40. For me it is just neater and more convenient than having an inverted-Vee. Another big advantage for me with the SteppIR is that it is mostly fibreglass tubing so corrosion will be less of an issue. 40m through to 6m with one feeder! Luverly! -- Pete . . ZS5ACT http://www.electronic-ideas.com/zs5act/ ------ Reply Separator ------ "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message news:12es30960kl9435@corp.supernews.com... > > "Rick" wrote in message > news:44ebc755.60522765@news.optonline.net... >> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0200, "Pete" >> wrote: >> >>>My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m >>>dipole >>>option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit. >>> >>>I vote SteppIR. >>>-- >>>Pete . . >>>ZS5ACT >> >> >> I have had a three element SteppIR up for three years now. >> It replaced a pair of Hy Gain monobanders (4 element 20 and 5 element >> 15). >> Biggest difference I noticed was that my mast doesn't bend anymore !! >> And my rotor has about 1/3 the work to do because the torque is so >> much less. >> And I have one feedline and no antenna switches, and only one >> lightning arrestor. >> And I now get 10 meters, and 17 meters. Wow what a great band 17 >> meters is. >> Yes, I DO notice the pattern is not as sharp as the big monobanders, >> no question about it. Probably a db or so less gain. >> >> On 6 meters (I DO NOT have the extra fixed length element for 6 >> meters) I also have a 5 element M Squared, mounted about 6 feet above >> the SteppIR. It absolutely blows away the SteppIR. So if you are >> serious about 6, and don't want another yagi on the tower, give >> serious consideration to the advice of Mike at SteppIR and get his 4th >> element. I guess you said that, you are getting the 6 meter element. >> >> But I miss that shiny aluminum up there. Sometimes the early morning >> sun would reflect off all those Hy Gain elements...... Man, that was >> a beautiful sight. >> >> But 30 and 40 meters with the SteppIR? Seems like the only advantages >> are the ones I mentioned above about the single feedline and >> simplicity. I can't really see all that much advantage to being able >> to rotate those single element radiators on those bands. I >> experimented with learning EZNEC last week and I didn't see hardly any >> directivity at all in my 40 meter inverted vee. >> >> Rick K2XT > > Since reading Rick's post I should add that I have the two extra elements > for six and have had great success. > I cannot compare it to another antenna, but I just got a 6M QSL from New > Hampshire and I'm in Texas. > > 73 > H., NQ5H > Article: 229027 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156527925.110621.284320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:51:34 GMT n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > Have you included the fact that the *source* is properly terminating > the line on its end? The source is relying on an ideal autotuner to terminate the line with a 50 ohm Z0-match. > The source can accept power from the reflected wave, right? No, there is an ideal autotuner on the output of the source. *Zero reflected energy reaches the source*. The SWR between the Source and the Autotuner is 1:1 just as it is in any properly tuned antenna system. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229028 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 28 Aug 2006 12:18:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: So how are you taking into account the stored energy in the ideal autotuner? Even if it's perfect, there's energy stored in the fields of the impedance transforming device. Are there 0J in the tuner? If not, how does the impedance transformation take place? Dan Article: 229029 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 28 Aug 2006 12:30:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1156793423.873863.134460@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Sorry should have been "If so, how does the impedance transformation take place" not "If not" Dan n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > Are there 0J in the tuner? If > not, how does the impedance transformation take place? > > Dan Article: 229030 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Error correction From: Jim Kelley Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:50:03 -0700 Message-ID: References: <2eSdnYZzr7pWyXbZRVnytA@bt.com> <4a6dnao4y86hF3PZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d@bt.com> <44F06623.7020501@wb6hqk.ampr.org> Bart Rowlett wrote: > Reg Edwards wrote: > >> A correction - insert dt instead of dz. > > > Another correction is in order. The resistive term should be i(z) * R > and the conductance term should be v(z) * G. > >> >> The fundamental partial differential equations of transmission lines >> are - >> >> - dv/dz = R + L*di/dt >> >> - di/dz = G + C*dv/dt >> >> where volts v and current i are incremental functions of distance and >> time, and z is incremental distance along line. >> > bart Good to know you're still lurking around here, Bart! Glad somebody still keeps track of units. ;-) 73, ac6xg Article: 229031 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156548452.583323.311230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:22:16 GMT n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > So how are you taking into account the stored energy in the ideal > autotuner? The ideal autotuner is lossless. The delay through the tuner compared to one second is negligible. The energy in the tuner components is negligible compared to 300 joules. The principles are just as easy to comprehend if the tuner is replaced by a circulator and load. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229032 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156560687.588474.83280@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:31:54 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: >> So how are you taking into account the stored energy in the ideal >> autotuner? > > The ideal autotuner is lossless. The delay through the > tuner compared to one second is negligible. The energy > in the tuner components is negligible compared to 300 > joules. Since the Z0-match is achieved at the ideal autotuner input, just consider the lossless autotuner to be part of the one second lossless transmission line system. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229033 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <1dKIg.7914$Xl5.341@trnddc06> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:35:41 GMT Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you..... the "Whole Point" in the Apples and Oranges War: "Dave Oldridge" > > But you see, a lot of ships used CW at that time. > So, what say we just forget this whole thing a swap some radios? rb Article: 229034 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <4g7re29ghimo4ochmlh7v6mhv3qq1gsmej@4ax.com> <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <7oe4f2lr255om8j04n73e8v9e4023rals4@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <2gKIg.7915$Xl5.1583@trnddc06> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:38:54 GMT Ah, my bad... sry. rb Radio content: There used to be a radio swap group here.... wrote in message news:7oe4f2lr255om8j04n73e8v9e4023rals4@4ax.com... > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:36:43 GMT, "Woody" wrote: > >>Yeah, yoo big chikin. LOL >> >>I dare you to pick up a mic and do a radio test on 3.865 >>by saying "Beep, beep, beep, beeeeeeeep"! >> >>rb > well as a etech I realy should not try that one >> >>"an old friend" wrote in message >>news:1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Article: 229035 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 28 Aug 2006 15:38:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1156804732.873472.188340@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Woody wrote: > Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you..... the "Whole Point" in the Apples and > Oranges War: > > > "Dave Oldridge" > > > > But you see, a lot of ships used CW at that time. > > > > So, what say we just forget this whole thing a swap some radios? > rb I'kk be glad to as soonas the R&O comes out Article: 229036 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <8q5n3.ien.17.1@news.alt.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <3kKIg.7919$Xl5.1703@trnddc06> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:43:11 GMT Listen here... I will not stand by and watch millions of innocent people die needlessly as more an more people shun the gift of life by scoffing at CW. It's genocide I tell you, and the government just sits by and watches it happen!! rb radio content: Now we're really ridin' a continuous wave..... too bad we're in the sewer.... "Not Lloyd" wrote in message news:8q5n3.ien.17.1@news.alt.net... > > "Woody" wrote in message > news:FYqIg.36416$NF3.28742@trnddc05... > And as previously stated, slow equals death. If you can't do 20wpm you > should stay off the bands. > > rb > > Aw, fer Chrissake Woody, kwit yer cryin' and whinin'. > > Article: 229037 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:46:31 -0400 Message-ID: <2hs6f2p6685a6ml03d5sf436l48ss5qlg7@4ax.com> References: <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <7oe4f2lr255om8j04n73e8v9e4023rals4@4ax.com> <2gKIg.7915$Xl5.1583@trnddc06> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:38:54 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >Ah, my bad... sry. >rb > np I expect the FCC to help me correct that soon enough >Radio content: >There used to be a radio swap group here.... indeed and all kinds of radio gruops > > wrote in message >news:7oe4f2lr255om8j04n73e8v9e4023rals4@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:36:43 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >> >>>Yeah, yoo big chikin. LOL >>> >>>I dare you to pick up a mic and do a radio test on 3.865 >>>by saying "Beep, beep, beep, beeeeeeeep"! >>> >>>rb >> well as a etech I realy should not try that one >>> >>>"an old friend" wrote in message >>>news:1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >> http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ >> >> -- >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229038 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:50:52 GMT Sorry... my bad... is it 35 now? I stand corrected. Back to the chant... If you can't do 35wpm, you should stay off the bands!! Seriously people, think about it... do *you* want blood on your hands because you're a slow-beepin loser? Lives are on the line, in case you aren't paying attention. This is serious business and requires a dedication as if it were... your only purpose. Unmotivated 25wpm losers need not apply. rb "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982CEA0D070D0doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Woody" wrote in news:FYqIg.36416$NF3.28742@trnddc05: > >> And as previously stated, slow equals death. If you can't do 20wpm you >> should stay off the bands. > > 20 is SLOW. But the only way to learn 35 or 40 is to learn 10, 15, 20 > etc. > And the best way to do that is get on the bands and DO it instead of > making > rude noises at the people who CAN. > > Phonetics on SSB are usually a lot slower than 20wpm, though. > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 229039 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <1o2Hg.19713$Te.3938@trnddc07> <2_qIg.2009$pX3.1822@trnddc07> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:56:37 GMT Hey... you have proof I was dropped?? I've wondered for years as I just can't remember the day I was born at all. It kinda annoys me, but hey, I can't remember CW either, so I figure no loss either way. rb Not to stray off-topic or break any rules, but you wouldn't happen to have a 50w VHF Spectra you'd want to sell or trade, would ya? "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982CE9C4F2282doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Woody" wrote in news:2_qIg.2009$pX3.1822@trnddc07: > >> Eh? Now you say its ok to be slow? Make up your mind will ya? People > are >> dying while you decide! >> rb > > This gem must've come from the other brain cell. Is that the one that > took the brunt when you were dropped? > >> "Al Klein" wrote in message >> news:htiue2dqqurlttil79ka6apngndip080d9@4ax.com... >>> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:22:21 GMT, Dave Oldridge >>> wrote: >>> >>>>Al Klein wrote in >>>>news:rujpe2dfg6a35matc3fnrsauotja9co4lk@4ax.com: >>> >>>>> Really? You can write a spoken language you don't understand well >>>>> enough to be read by someone who understands it? Maybe. Maybe not. >>>>> In CW, you can. >>> >>>>I can do it (and have done so) using phonetics. But that's SLOWER > than >>>>CW. >>> >>> You're preaching to the choir, Dave. I've had to handle foreign >>> language traffic phonetically by voice and by CW - and I much prefer >>> CW for that kind of work, even though I prefer voice for most >>> rag-chewing. As you say, needing it spelled out is quite slow. > > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 229040 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:03:40 GMT "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982CE8FF65B52doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Woody" wrote in news:i4rIg.901$N84.191@trnddc08: > >> So did your guy die or not? > > Which one? You win some, you lose some. Huh? How can a fast CW op *not* save a life? Have you read this thread at all? CW = Gift of Life. Fast CW = Hand of God. It's in the Extra Class manual.... > And that's why I'm watching TV from a 12ghz satellite signal right now. > Putting the antenna that high makes all modes pretty much equal as far as > signal-to-noise goes. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGH!! Holy crap.... I hope no one else reads that.. It'll kill the entire Comm-Post pile we're making, and then people will just go back to swapping radios or something. [Perish the thought!] rb Article: 229041 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <2QKIg.7929$Xl5.2566@trnddc06> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:17:18 GMT The one that's looking for a VHF 50w Spectra..... hehe... And I have to ask Dave, [and I mean seriously this time]... You really aren't defending this thread [in this group] as an intelligent discussion [or one that should even be here] in the first place, are you? rb Radio Content: For the acetylcholine-deficient that think I'm really trying to be a part of this seemingly perpetual, and twisted delusion... It's a friggin swap group.... Now sit and ponder that for just a minute.... "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982CE954C5529doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Woody" wrote in news:cfrIg.2016$pX3.1819@trnddc07: > >> >> wrote in message >> news:2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com... >>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:22:53 GMT, Dave Oldridge >>> wrote: >> >>> where did you encounter total stupidity? I missed it I saw someone >>> >>>> >> >> Uhhhh...... Start with the OP and read to this point or beyond.... > > Gee, which of your brain cells thought that one up? > > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 229042 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:25:44 GMT LOL.. Now that's what I'm looking for! What else ya got? Let's post each reply twice from now on, OK? In other news.... Stay on topic Dave.... the issue is *CW* saves lives,[or results in other holistic happenings] ok? I swear I've already explained that to ya...? We've proven many posts ago that brain cells have nothing to do with ham radio, this thread or those in it. My fav site, www.hamsexy.com will explain it all. rb radio content: I think I'd even consider an M1225 in trade, instead of the Spectra. "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982CE92822348doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Woody" wrote in news:thrIg.2006$XD1.1601@trnddc01: > >> Good call. Admit nothing, deny everything. >> >> Hey, if you had to use CW to make chicken salad for a starving Latvian, >> would that person starve to death? > > If you had to use either of your brain cells to think of some way to FEED > a > starving Latvian would that person starve to death? > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 229043 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:29:50 GMT Bless you brother, I will indeed make it so. Thanks for the reply! rb Radio content: M1225 needs to be VHF and 40w, or I can't use it.... wrote in message news:r5h4f2dssjq1prs7di8h65bd7q3ipbn86m@4ax.com... > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:17:21 GMT, "Woody" wrote: > >>Since I don't know this Robitussin guy, I really can't say anything in >>reply >>to this post.... >>rb > count that amoug so blessings > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Article: 229044 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <8hv0f.csu.19.1@news.alt.net> <1156469995.033080.20480@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156478196.340076.306810@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156549551.368941.58010@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156731908.676838.260520@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:31:34 GMT Yeah, that was the problem exactly... so I can stand on the ocean floor and see people inside the boat? Kewl. rb radio content: So what kinda radio did the boat have? I'd like to find me a nice Micom for cheap... wrote in message news:1156731908.676838.260520@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Woody wrote: >> I saw a C-130 fly almost directly over my house last year. Couldn't see >> who >> was in it though... >> rb > > The aluminum skin of a C130 is sort of hard to see through. The only > craft that I ever saw with a glass underbelly was a tour boat in > Florida. > > But you can rest assured that neither robesin nor the CAP was flying > that C130. > Article: 229045 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156469420.301419.134990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156731471.899303.75780@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:47:49 GMT > >> >> >> >Yet as "chief operator" or ANCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa, he >> >> >> >remains >> >> >> >woefully ignorant of MARS. I just don't get it. >> >> Uh, hello.... Looks like perfect qualifications for a management >> position. > > I like the way you think. I usually try to avoid thought... it makes my head hurt... > > > Can't it be factory refurbished? Funny thing... the stupid NASA Engineers tried to control the thing with data bursts.... Yes, data bursts! Can you believe those anti-CW nazis? We'd already be on Pluto if they'd controlled it with CW. So, sadly, no.... due to advanced technology, she's been lost.... > >>I thought they were just to cover the beaches so the >> Army doesn't get sand in their boots.... > > Welp, when the AF took the airplanes away from the Army in 1947... > Was it that late? I would've guess more around the late/end of the war... Well anyway, I was just trying to stir up some jarheads with the beaches/Army thing... You wanna swap radios or anything? rb Article: 229046 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 28 Aug 2006 16:50:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1156809037.407896.164310@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > Yeah, that was the problem exactly... > so I can stand on the ocean floor and see people inside the boat? > Kewl. > rb > > radio content: > So what kinda radio did the boat have? I'd like to find me a nice Micom for > cheap... Only robesin can tell us what kind of radio his craft carried, but even he doesn't know. Article: 229047 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you heard Mark calling Mayday, would you switch to a different repeater?<< References: <44F05616.20801@fuse.net> <1156612522.790308.313150@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156635164.623729.325600@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <7jh4f2drip43pbscm57obu6i5su35t69g5@4ax.com> <94LIg.11337$Qf.9198@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:34:29 GMT, Slow Code wrote: > > >Or have a party. enough said > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229048 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 28 Aug 2006 16:58:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1156809519.192294.92120@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > > > >> >> >> >Yet as "chief operator" or ANCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa, he > >> >> >> >remains > >> >> >> >woefully ignorant of MARS. I just don't get it. > >> > >> Uh, hello.... Looks like perfect qualifications for a management > >> position. > > > > I like the way you think. > > I usually try to avoid thought... it makes my head hurt... You would have been right at home in the Morse Forever camp about 10 years ago. > > Can't it be factory refurbished? > > Funny thing... the stupid NASA Engineers tried to control the thing with > data bursts.... Yes, data bursts! > Can you believe those anti-CW nazis? We'd already be on Pluto if they'd > controlled it with CW. > So, sadly, no.... due to advanced technology, she's been lost.... Manual telegraphy? C'mon... > >>I thought they were just to cover the beaches so the > >> Army doesn't get sand in their boots.... > > > > Welp, when the AF took the airplanes away from the Army in 1947... > > Was it that late? I would've guess more around the late/end of the war... I wasn't there, but that's how the story went. > Well anyway, I was just trying to stir up some jarheads with the > beaches/Army thing... I've got a lot of respect for both. Served with the 2ID at Casey, and again with the marines and 10th mountain in somalia. > You wanna swap radios or anything? > rb Probably not, but there is another group, rec.radio.amateur.equipment, which is a lot like a hamfest. Except the food is better. Article: 229049 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:16:08 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156469420.301419.134990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156731471.899303.75780@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156809519.192294.92120@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> On 28 Aug 2006 16:58:39 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > >Woody wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> >Yet as "chief operator" or ANCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa, he >> >> >> >> >remains >> >> >> >> >woefully ignorant of MARS. I just don't get it. >> >> >> >> Uh, hello.... Looks like perfect qualifications for a management >> >> position. >> > >> > I like the way you think. >> >> I usually try to avoid thought... it makes my head hurt... > >You would have been right at home in the Morse Forever camp about 10 >years ago. or today > >> > Can't it be factory refurbished? >> >> Funny thing... the stupid NASA Engineers tried to control the thing with >> data bursts.... Yes, data bursts! >> Can you believe those anti-CW nazis? We'd already be on Pluto if they'd >> controlled it with CW. >> So, sadly, no.... due to advanced technology, she's been lost.... > >Manual telegraphy? C'mon... > >> >>I thought they were just to cover the beaches so the >> >> Army doesn't get sand in their boots.... >> > >> > Welp, when the AF took the airplanes away from the Army in 1947... >> >> Was it that late? I would've guess more around the late/end of the war... > >I wasn't there, but that's how the story went. > >> Well anyway, I was just trying to stir up some jarheads with the >> beaches/Army thing... > >I've got a lot of respect for both. Served with the 2ID at Casey, and >again with the marines and 10th mountain in somalia. > >> You wanna swap radios or anything? >> rb > >Probably not, but there is another group, rec.radio.amateur.equipment, >which is a lot like a hamfest. Except the food is better. pf course it is http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229050 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: 28 Aug 2006 17:28:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> What's the complex Poynting vector in the tuner? Why should I believe that the delay through the tuner is negligible? Why should I believe that the stored fields are negligible? It's not obvious to me. For that matter, why does the ideal autotuner not reciprocal? The impedance in the presence of the standing waves at the tuner-line junction is R+jX. That is transformed by the autotuner so the source sees 50 ohms, but that also means that the output impedance of the generator is transformed as viewed by a wave coming down the line. It's not transformed to infinity. If it is a circulator and load, this is a distinctly nonreciprocal system. If it's a tuner affecting a match, it is reciprocal. If your definition of an ideal autotuner includes the nonreciprocity, please send me a schematic of such a device. I think I calculated the Poynting vector for this situation, I think the Poynting vector divided by the group velocity of the waves and integrated over the area of the coax gives the energy density per unit length in the steady state, and if you've tuned the line length so that the imaginary part of the Poynting vector goes to zero then the explanation you give falls apart. The tuner matters here. This is the problem with English language discussions, especially disagreements, about electrical systems. "There exists an ideal autotuner at the input" is insufficient specification of the mathematical problem. If you place a device that does everything you say it does at the source-line junction, maybe you do get 300J in the one-second line. Why isn't it reciprocal? Why is its phase shift negligible? Is it just because it's physically small? I seem to remember a certain hotly contested paper that I would think would have certainly put that sort of idea out of your head. I think the crux of the misunderstanding is in the tuner. I think it has stored energy and nonnegligible phase delay, else it is non-reciprocal and dissipative (circulator+load). What *IS* an ideal autotuner? I think you've stuffed too many conditions into its operation for it to be a physically realizable device. I'm pretty sure that it breaks the time reversal symmetry of the system. Send out a pulse into your one second misterminated line via your ideal autotuner. Wait half a second. FREEZE! Now run the film backward while obeying the rules of your autotuner. The pulse doesn't go back into the source. It bounces. What's up? 73, Dan Article: 229051 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:00:25 GMT n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > What's the complex Poynting vector in the tuner? Why should I believe > that the delay through the tuner is negligible? Why should I believe > that the stored fields are negligible? It's not obvious to me. The delay calculates out to be in nanoseconds compared to the one second delay in the lossless line. The stored fields calculate out to be in microjoules compared to the 300 joules stored in the one second long feedline. The real question is, allowing for all the things to which you have objected, why is there very close to the number of joules in the feedline necessary to support the forward and reflected waves? What makes you think there are not enough joules in the line to support the forward and reflected waves? > For that matter, why does the ideal autotuner not reciprocal? The > impedance in the presence of the standing waves at the tuner-line > junction is R+jX. That is transformed by the autotuner so the source > sees 50 ohms, but that also means that the output impedance of the > generator is transformed as viewed by a wave coming down the line. It can be proved that a 50 ohm Z0-match, because of destructive interference on the 50 ohm side, reflects 100% of the reflected energy back toward the load. > It's not transformed to infinity. If it is a circulator and load, this > is a distinctly nonreciprocal system. If it's a tuner affecting a > match, it is reciprocal. If your definition of an ideal autotuner > includes the nonreciprocity, please send me a schematic of such a > device. Please read the Worldradio magazine article from my web page. What you are calling nonreciprocity is merely destructive interference on the source side of the Z0-match and constructive interference on the load side of the Z0-match. > I think I calculated the Poynting vector for this situation, I think > the Poynting vector divided by the group velocity of the waves and > integrated over the area of the coax gives the energy density per unit > length in the steady state, and if you've tuned the line length so that > the imaginary part of the Poynting vector goes to zero then the > explanation you give falls apart. Not if one deals with the forward Poynting vector and reflected Poynting vector *separately* as does Ramo/Whinnery. Pz+ = 200 watts of forward power in a matched line. Pz- = 100 watts of reverse power in a matched line. Superpose the two coherent waves and count the joules in the superposed waves. > The tuner matters here. This is the problem with English language > discussions, especially disagreements, about electrical systems. > "There exists an ideal autotuner at the input" is insufficient > specification of the mathematical problem. If you place a device that > does everything you say it does at the source-line junction, maybe you > do get 300J in the one-second line. > > Why isn't it reciprocal? Because a Z0-match allows energy flow in only the forward direction. That's how antenna tuners work. Destructive interference keeps reflected energy from flowing past the Z0-match toward the source. That's also how 1/4WL thin-film anti-reflective glass works. > Why is its phase shift negligible? Is it > just because it's physically small? All it has to do is shift the impedance from 300 ohms to 50 ohms. A few microhenries and a few picofarads will do that. Its phase shift would be in the nanoseconds. > What *IS* an ideal autotuner? It's a concept to be thought about and discussed. If one accepts a one second lossless feedline, why not an ideal autotuner for the sake of conceptual discussion? Then a real autotuner can be substituted and the losses, delays, and energy components estimated. But like I said, the concept that I am presenting doesn't require the ideal autotuner. It is actually easier to understand using a circulator and load. There is exactly the amount of joules in the transmission line needed to support the forward and reflected energy waves. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229052 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:15:27 GMT n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > Send out a pulse into your one second misterminated line > via your ideal autotuner. Wait half a second. FREEZE! Now run the > film backward while obeying the rules of your autotuner. The pulse > doesn't go back into the source. It bounces. What's up? I certainly didn't say that. The steady-state voltage and current component values have to exist for 100% destructive interference to occur at a Z0-match. On the source side of the Z0-match, in order to eliminate the reflected energy wave, two reflected wave components are required to be traveling in the same direction, be equal in magnitudes and opposite in phase. Short pulses make those conditions impossible. In your above pulse example, there is no interference at the impedance discontinuity and therefore a Z0-match doesn't even exist. A Z0-match depends upon a steady-state supply of RF waves. A Z0-match at the input of a tuner works exactly like the 1/4WL thin-film anti-reflected glass coating. If one sends a 1/2WL pulse of light at that piece of glass, there will be reflections. Anti-reflective glass depends upon a steady-state supply of light waves. One of the cancellation components is 180 degrees older than the other one. Let's return to the Signal Generators equipped with Circulators and Loads (SGCL). Would you agree that the feedline contains 300 joules in the following example? 200W SGCL----one second long lossless feedline----100W SGCL 200W--> <--100W -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229053 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 28 Aug 2006 18:38:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1156815536.269854.59980@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > wrote in message > news:1156809519.192294.92120@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > > > > Woody wrote: > > > > Manual telegraphy? C'mon... > > You do realize I'm a disgruntled radio swap group, off-topic, post bombing > loser, right? > I'm just thinking this would be a great place for a radio swap group, that's > all. > Everything I say is usually in sarcasm.....just to add stupidity to the > stupidty.... > I've given up though and I'm going back to ebay... Alright. List your stuff. Maybe someone is interested. > > I've got a lot of respect for both. Served with the 2ID at Casey, and > > again with the marines and 10th mountain in somalia. > > > > Big Ol' Kudos to you bro. Somalians suck. I think there are indeed places > that qualify as Fourth-world countries. > Somalia, Nigeria, etc... LOL.. > rb It sucked. Just got a message on the somalia reflector today. Seems the al qaida is well liked in somalia because the country has been through 15 years of chaos and lawlessness, and the islamists are now imposing their law. I guess any law is better than none. Reminds me, in part, how hitler came to power. Article: 229054 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 28 Aug 2006 18:44:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1156815890.124501.133600@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > >Never ever saw a > >CAP in a flight suit before robesin's well advertised home page > > Big blue jumpsuits... never seen anything else... Robesin's flight suit is sage green. Looks like a real one. > >, and a male nurses uniform. > > Wanna explain what a male nurses uniform is?? He said it wasn't a dress. Culots, maybe? > > > Thought he had a "killer" job as a male nurse? > > Wow, that sounds rather condescending.... How else would you describe the best job in the world? > >> Oh, I don't know. After a hard day behind the microphone, he's got > > that 1,000 yard stare. > > Yeah, those "real" radio ops really have it tough, don't they? There should > be a reality show called > "Two-Way Trauma: Life in the radio room." > > rb Hah!!! I'm sure he could make up stories. I'm real sure of it. Article: 229055 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? From: Dave Oldridge References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:51:02 GMT "Woody" wrote in news:gDKIg.7926$Xl5.5330@trnddc06: > > "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message > news:Xns982CE8FF65B52doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... >> "Woody" wrote in news:i4rIg.901$N84.191@trnddc08: >> >>> So did your guy die or not? >> >> Which one? You win some, you lose some. > > Huh? How can a fast CW op *not* save a life? Have you read this thread > at all? > CW = Gift of Life. > Fast CW = Hand of God. Where did anyone actually say that in this thread? > > It's in the Extra Class manual.... > >> And that's why I'm watching TV from a 12ghz satellite signal right >> now. Putting the antenna that high makes all modes pretty much equal >> as far as signal-to-noise goes. > > AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGH!! > Holy crap.... I hope no one else reads that.. It'll kill the entire > Comm-Post pile we're making, and then > people will just go back to swapping radios or something. [Perish the > thought!] > rb Well, at the moment my radio is on 3729 LSB. But it will shortly be on 3652 CW. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 229056 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? From: Dave Oldridge References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com> <2QKIg.7929$Xl5.2566@trnddc06> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:52:34 GMT "Woody" wrote in news:2QKIg.7929$Xl5.2566@trnddc06: > The one that's looking for a VHF 50w Spectra..... hehe... > > And I have to ask Dave, [and I mean seriously this time]... You really > aren't defending this thread [in this group] as > an intelligent discussion [or one that should even be here] in the > first place, are you? Nope. It's not about antennas, so that makes it off topic in the group I'm posting in. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 229057 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <44f12a95.76519@news.optonline.net> Subject: Re: ANTENNA TUBING ANTI-SIEZE Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:03:25 -0700 > > > > I just got a used Butternut HF6V in great shape for a great price. What > > type of anti-sieze do I need to put between the sections of aluminum tubing ??? > > Is automotive anti-sieze OK ??? I don't think that it is electrically > > conductive. Do I need something like electricians use when they connect the > > aluminum service entrance cable to the breaker box ??? I think that stuff is > > called Penetrox. Is something like that available at Home Depot ??? Piggy-backing off this thread, please: When I was an EMI technician some years ago, we used conductive anti-seize on (most) hardware that was in a conductive path, such as grounding straps. I was surprised to discover that some/most anti-seize is non-conductive; you can daub some kinds on the benchtop and stick ohmmeter probes in it -- nothing happens. I figured with its metal content, surely it would all be conductive, but not so. I have no idea what implications this has for the OP's Butternut and would welcome comments. Article: 229058 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: ANTENNA TUBING ANTI-SIEZE Message-ID: References: <44f12a95.76519@news.optonline.net> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:35:43 GMT On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:03:25 -0700, "Sal M. Onella" wrote: > >> > >> > I just got a used Butternut HF6V in great shape for a great price. >What >> > type of anti-sieze do I need to put between the sections of aluminum >tubing ??? >> > Is automotive anti-sieze OK ??? I don't think that it is electrically >> > conductive. Do I need something like electricians use when they connect >the >> > aluminum service entrance cable to the breaker box ??? I think that >stuff is >> > called Penetrox. Is something like that available at Home Depot ??? > >Piggy-backing off this thread, please: When I was an EMI technician some >years ago, we used conductive anti-seize on (most) hardware that was in a >conductive path, such as grounding straps. I was surprised to discover that >some/most anti-seize is non-conductive; you can daub some kinds on the >benchtop and stick ohmmeter probes in it -- nothing happens. I figured with >its metal content, surely it would all be conductive, but not so. > >I have no idea what implications this has for the OP's Butternut and would >welcome comments. > You raise the difference between improve conductivity of a connection and anti-seize compounds. What the other person probably needs is not (as he asked) anti-seize, but conduction enhancing / protective paste, which is usually something link zinc or aluminium dust in a silicon grease carrier (for aluminium). The particles help to create a current path between the parts under pressure, and the silicon grease helps to prevent water getting in forming an electrolytic action and consequent corrosion. I don't think your ohmmeter test is a good one (ie sticking probes in a puddle of stuff). The particles work by being crushed into the adjacent surfaces under the pressure of the mechanical connection. In the absence of stuff made for the specific metals, I find that marine grade grease (withstands elements better than chassis grease) or silicon grease (expensive) applied to cleaned parts (most important) is often adequate, and usually better than nothing. A stainless steel brush is handy for cleaning joint parts, some scotchbrite pads are useful, but they embed in soft materials, and ordinary steel wool is the worst for embedding. Owen -- Article: 229059 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Pete" Subject: Re: Sommer versus SteppIR Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 22:37:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: <8e917$44e765ad$453d9423$8718@FUSE.NET> <1156131770.320326.41130@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <44E92CE5.10502@fuse.net> <44ebc755.60522765@news.optonline.net> <12es30960kl9435@corp.supernews.com> Thanks for the feedback on the 6m elements and the 4 ele SteppIR. I want to go for the 3 ele. because the boom length is the same as my existing beam. I could (just about) fit a MonstIR into the yard, but I don't want to get a beam antenna that big. My neighbours have come to terms with the metal monster, as-is. If it got even bigger, I think I would have a bit of problem with them. I can always change it to the 4 element then the MonstIR and they would hav it 'grow' on them. My current beam has a rotatable dipole on 40. For me it is just neater and more convenient than having an inverted-Vee. Big advantage for me with the SteppIR is that it is mostly fibreglass tubing so corrosion will be less of an issue. 40m through to 6m with one feeder! Luverly! -- Pete . . ZS5ACT ------ Reply Separator ------ "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message news:12es30960kl9435@corp.supernews.com... > > "Rick" wrote in message > news:44ebc755.60522765@news.optonline.net... >> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0200, "Pete" >> wrote: >> >>>My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m >>>dipole >>>option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit. >>> >>>I vote SteppIR. >>>-- >>>Pete . . >>>ZS5ACT >> >> >> I have had a three element SteppIR up for three years now. >> It replaced a pair of Hy Gain monobanders (4 element 20 and 5 element >> 15). >> Biggest difference I noticed was that my mast doesn't bend anymore !! >> And my rotor has about 1/3 the work to do because the torque is so >> much less. >> And I have one feedline and no antenna switches, and only one >> lightning arrestor. >> And I now get 10 meters, and 17 meters. Wow what a great band 17 >> meters is. >> Yes, I DO notice the pattern is not as sharp as the big monobanders, >> no question about it. Probably a db or so less gain. >> >> On 6 meters (I DO NOT have the extra fixed length element for 6 >> meters) I also have a 5 element M Squared, mounted about 6 feet above >> the SteppIR. It absolutely blows away the SteppIR. So if you are >> serious about 6, and don't want another yagi on the tower, give >> serious consideration to the advice of Mike at SteppIR and get his 4th >> element. I guess you said that, you are getting the 6 meter element. >> >> But I miss that shiny aluminum up there. Sometimes the early morning >> sun would reflect off all those Hy Gain elements...... Man, that was >> a beautiful sight. >> >> But 30 and 40 meters with the SteppIR? Seems like the only advantages >> are the ones I mentioned above about the single feedline and >> simplicity. I can't really see all that much advantage to being able >> to rotate those single element radiators on those bands. I >> experimented with learning EZNEC last week and I didn't see hardly any >> directivity at all in my 40 meter inverted vee. >> >> Rick K2XT > > Since reading Rick's post I should add that I have the two extra elements > for six and have had great success. > I cannot compare it to another antenna, but I just got a 6M QSL from New > Hampshire and I'm in Texas. > > 73 > H., NQ5H > Article: 229060 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" Subject: Log Periodic ant Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:43:15 GMT Hi All..... I have just bought a Yaesu VR5000 receiver/scanner and while looking round for a wideband antenna came across the good old log periodic but what a price!!!, circa £200+...... I have a discone but it`s not a lot of use up around the 2gig area (or anywhere else!!) so i thought i might have a go at making my own, the magloops are working great as is the QFH 137megs weathersat ant, thanks to everyones assistance!..... Is there any software around to design a log periodic to around 2400megs??.....i`ve found some but is there any better?.. Regards... Lee......de G6ZSG.... Article: 229061 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "copdoc1@optonline.net" Subject: NEED TO KNOW BEST ANTENNA Date: 29 Aug 2006 00:59:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1156838393.328804.90100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> I have a Cobra 148 GTL that is Modifed and may be using a 250 watt amp what would be the best Mobile Antenna. Also what is the best Mobile Antenna with out the Amp Please Advise Peter LBJ1788@aol.com Article: 229062 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:13:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:43:15 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >Hi All..... > >I have just bought a Yaesu VR5000 receiver/scanner and while looking round >for a wideband antenna >came across the good old log periodic but what a price!!!, circa £200+...... > >I have a discone but it`s not a lot of use up around the 2gig area (or >anywhere else!!) so i thought i >might have a go at making my own, the magloops are working great as is the >QFH 137megs >weathersat ant, thanks to everyones assistance!..... > >Is there any software around to design a log periodic to around >2400megs??.....i`ve found some but is there any better?.. > >Regards... > >Lee......de G6ZSG.... > Hi Lee, Simply build a discone to the scale of 2GHz. The reason why the present one might not work is that if it is designed for a very lower base frequency, it is TOO BIG. Discones can be as wide banded as over a 10:1 frequency range, but this is for matching (certainly useful, but this does not necessarily make it usable). For instance, if you have a discone that has a low frequency design of 450 MHz and claims to go as high as 2GHz; then it may well match at those frequency extremes. On the other hand, at 450 MHz it is looking out at the horizon, BUT at 2GHz it is looking into the sky. The higher the frequency, the more the most favored direction climbs up. In other words it becomes deaf unless you want to hear an overhead satellite. This may be the source of your disdain for your current discone. Build a Discone whose lowest frequency would be around 1.2 GHz. How do you know what the lowest frequency is? Measure one of the skirt elements (the skeletal part of the cone). It should be a quarter wave of the lowest frequency of intended use. In this case, 1.2GHz, that would be 6 cm or so. The high end would then comfortably range up to 2.4 GHz, match, and still look at the horizon. Of course, the simple ground plane at 2GHz would work as well, unless you really need widebandedness (and it would probably work even then). Simply observe the simple geometry of keeping the element no longer than 5/8ths wavelength at the HIGHEST frequency you plan to monitor. If you still want a log periodic, simple scaling will always work. However, remember that scaling must be applied to ALL physical dimensions (this means element diameters too). 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229063 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: bluNOboxSPAMthief Subject: Re: Graphical NEC2 application for Linux Date: 29 Aug 2006 09:03:12 GMT Message-ID: References: <1156667685.445635.296240@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On 27 Aug 2006 01:34:45 -0700, neok wrote: > Hi All, > > I just uploaded a new beta release of xnec2c, a graphical > (GUI) application which incorporates nec2c, my translation > to C of NEC2, into an interactive antenna analysis and > visualization tool. xnec2c does not need and does not Hi, I am not sure if I should call you Matt ;) Can you tell me if this will compile easily with OS X (10.4)? thanks bernard ei8fdb Article: 229064 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: NEED TO KNOW BEST ANTENNA Date: 29 Aug 2006 03:59:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1156849157.442318.137690@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156838393.328804.90100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> OK, my advice is for you to go away... copdoc1@optonline.net wrote: > I have a Cobra 148 GTL that is Modifed and may be using a 250 watt amp > what would be the best Mobile Antenna. Also what is the best Mobile > Antenna with out the Amp > Please Advise > Peter LBJ1788@aol.com Article: 229065 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:27:10 GMT "Richard Clark" wrote in message news:nks7f29n5ols5cglr6cdcbpm0r4k6kd76b@4ax.com... > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:43:15 GMT, "Lee" > wrote: > > >Hi All..... > > > >I have just bought a Yaesu VR5000 receiver/scanner and while looking round > >for a wideband antenna > >came across the good old log periodic but what a price!!!, circa £200+...... > > > >I have a discone but it`s not a lot of use up around the 2gig area (or > >anywhere else!!) so i thought i > >might have a go at making my own, the magloops are working great as is the > >QFH 137megs > >weathersat ant, thanks to everyones assistance!..... > > > >Is there any software around to design a log periodic to around > >2400megs??.....i`ve found some but is there any better?.. > > > >Regards... > > > >Lee......de G6ZSG.... > > > > Hi Lee, Hi Richard.... > Simply build a discone to the scale of 2GHz. The reason why the > present one might not work is that if it is designed for a very lower > base frequency, it is TOO BIG. > > Discones can be as wide banded as over a 10:1 frequency range, but > this is for matching (certainly useful, but this does not necessarily > make it usable). > > For instance, if you have a discone that has a low frequency design of > 450 MHz and claims to go as high as 2GHz; then it may well match at > those frequency extremes. On the other hand, at 450 MHz it is looking > out at the horizon, BUT at 2GHz it is looking into the sky. The > higher the frequency, the more the most favored direction climbs up. > In other words it becomes deaf unless you want to hear an overhead > satellite. This may be the source of your disdain for your current > discone. > > Build a Discone whose lowest frequency would be around 1.2 GHz. > > How do you know what the lowest frequency is? Measure one of the > skirt elements (the skeletal part of the cone). It should be a > quarter wave of the lowest frequency of intended use. In this case, > 1.2GHz, that would be 6 cm or so. The high end would then comfortably > range up to 2.4 GHz, match, and still look at the horizon. > > Of course, the simple ground plane at 2GHz would work as well, unless > you really need widebandedness (and it would probably work even then). > Simply observe the simple geometry of keeping the element no longer > than 5/8ths wavelength at the HIGHEST frequency you plan to monitor. Yes, thanks for the info but i would like a little more gain than a standard discone gives...going to a parabolic discone would be the alternate option but a little too involved.... 73... Lee ....de G6ZSG... Article: 229066 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Re: NEED TO KNOW BEST ANTENNA Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 05:34:41 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1156838393.328804.90100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On 29 Aug 2006 00:59:53 -0700, "copdoc1@optonline.net" wrote: >I have a Cobra 148 GTL that is Modifed and may be using a 250 watt amp >what would be the best Mobile Antenna. Also what is the best Mobile >Antenna with out the Amp >Please Advise >Peter LBJ1788@aol.com ------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------ A Heathkit CanTenna would be ideal for that setup. In case you missed the subtlety, this NG is for licensed radio amateurs, not CB'ers with illegally modified rigs and/or amplifiers. -- Mr Bill Article: 229067 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <44f106eb$0$15498$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:16:27 GMT Because your stupidity is laughable each and every time you cut/paste it... LOL rb "The Kat" wrote in message news:lsh2f2l1egqf4qbqgnocmv31jipljc234c@4ax.com... > On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:43:53 -0400, "L." wrote: > > > > WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread > in a SCANNER newsgroup?? > > > > > Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. > > This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... > > Remove XYZ to email me Article: 229068 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1156642643.135805.63280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156643048.423952.247700@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: <17XIg.2762$N84.2437@trnddc08> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:16:45 GMT Because your stupidity is laughable each and every time you cut/paste it... LOL rb "The Kat" wrote in message news:sqh2f2pgr6qff03oo1mfg83d1a5p0sjlnh@4ax.com... > On 26 Aug 2006 18:44:08 -0700, "an old freid to some a nightmare to steve" > wrote: > > > WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread > in a SCANNER newsgroup?? > > > > > Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. > > This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... > > Remove XYZ to email me Article: 229069 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <8rh2f290q6k4fmb6d0ujo61384rugmbjqb@4ax.com> Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:17:31 GMT Because your stupidity is laughable each and every time you cut/paste it... LOL rb "The Kat" wrote in message news:8rh2f290q6k4fmb6d0ujo61384rugmbjqb@4ax.com... > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 02:05:30 GMT, "Just4Me" wrote: > > > > WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread > in a SCANNER newsgroup?? > > > > > Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. > > This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... > > Remove XYZ to email me Article: 229070 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1156644553.849464.230210@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <2sh2f2hkcuirus63lip4p54j34t0456aim@4ax.com> Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: <_7XIg.2764$N84.540@trnddc08> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:17:46 GMT Because your stupidity is laughable each and every time you cut/paste it... LOL rb "The Kat" wrote in message news:2sh2f2hkcuirus63lip4p54j34t0456aim@4ax.com... > On 26 Aug 2006 19:09:13 -0700, "an old freind" > wrote: > > > > WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread > in a SCANNER newsgroup?? > > > > > Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. > > This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... > > Remove XYZ to email me Article: 229071 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1156642643.135805.63280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Message-ID: <98XIg.2765$N84.2713@trnddc08> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:17:57 GMT Because your stupidity is laughable each and every time you cut/paste it... LOL rb "The Kat" wrote in message news:gqh2f2t810716scfnka4e8hv388lkts2nj@4ax.com... > On 26 Aug 2006 18:37:23 -0700, "Bakb0ne" wrote: > > > > WHY in the FUCK are you continuing this thread > in a SCANNER newsgroup?? > > > > > Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk. > > This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity... > > Remove XYZ to email me Article: 229072 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:25:00 GMT Excellent point! ? rb "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982DBFC23EB7Adoldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Woody" wrote in news:gDKIg.7926$Xl5.5330@trnddc06: > >> >> "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message >> news:Xns982CE8FF65B52doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... >>> "Woody" wrote in news:i4rIg.901$N84.191@trnddc08: >>> >>>> So did your guy die or not? >>> >>> Which one? You win some, you lose some. >> >> Huh? How can a fast CW op *not* save a life? Have you read this thread >> at all? >> CW = Gift of Life. >> Fast CW = Hand of God. > > Where did anyone actually say that in this thread? >> >> It's in the Extra Class manual.... >> >>> And that's why I'm watching TV from a 12ghz satellite signal right >>> now. Putting the antenna that high makes all modes pretty much equal >>> as far as signal-to-noise goes. >> >> AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGH!! >> Holy crap.... I hope no one else reads that.. It'll kill the entire >> Comm-Post pile we're making, and then >> people will just go back to swapping radios or something. [Perish the >> thought!] >> rb > > Well, at the moment my radio is on 3729 LSB. But it will shortly be on > 3652 CW. > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 229073 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <%RJGg.27319$uV.13889@trnddc08> <2rkpe2pidhmd1ra6chkcrql0hj9h0l91db@4ax.com> <2QKIg.7929$Xl5.2566@trnddc06> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:38:53 GMT If you'll check the address bar when you reply, you might notice that you're posting in a swap group, scanner group, policy group, and antenna group.... IOW, you're just as guilty as the rest of us. :-) rb "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns982DC004CDB80doldridgsprintca@64.59.135.159... > "Woody" wrote in news:2QKIg.7929$Xl5.2566@trnddc06: > >> The one that's looking for a VHF 50w Spectra..... hehe... >> >> And I have to ask Dave, [and I mean seriously this time]... You really >> aren't defending this thread [in this group] as >> an intelligent discussion [or one that should even be here] in the >> first place, are you? > > Nope. It's not about antennas, so that makes it off topic in the group > I'm > posting in. > > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 229074 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Woody" References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155324703.131909.279070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156188562.839806.186090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156469420.301419.134990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156731471.899303.75780@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1156809519.192294.92120@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156815536.269854.59980@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <8IXIg.5171$p23.4598@trnddc04> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:56:20 GMT Who's gonna see a single want ad in 300 postings about nothing? Who wants to pilfer 300 postings about nothing to find a sale ad? On the Somalia thing, Do you mean extremists/terrorists that claim to follow Islam, or just basic Islamists? It looks like you mean the former. Please understand that Al Qaeda is a group of terrorists/extremists, it doesn't matter what religion they claim to follow. rb wrote in message news:1156815536.269854.59980@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > > Woody wrote: >> wrote in message >> news:1156809519.192294.92120@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >> > >> > Woody wrote: >> > >> > Manual telegraphy? C'mon... >> >> You do realize I'm a disgruntled radio swap group, off-topic, post >> bombing >> loser, right? >> I'm just thinking this would be a great place for a radio swap group, >> that's >> all. >> Everything I say is usually in sarcasm.....just to add stupidity to the >> stupidty.... >> I've given up though and I'm going back to ebay... > > Alright. List your stuff. Maybe someone is interested. > >> > I've got a lot of respect for both. Served with the 2ID at Casey, and >> > again with the marines and 10th mountain in somalia. >> > >> >> Big Ol' Kudos to you bro. Somalians suck. I think there are indeed places >> that qualify as Fourth-world countries. >> Somalia, Nigeria, etc... LOL.. >> rb > > It sucked. > > Just got a message on the somalia reflector today. Seems the al qaida > is well liked in somalia because the country has been through 15 years > of chaos and lawlessness, and the islamists are now imposing their law. > I guess any law is better than none. > > Reminds me, in part, how hitler came to power. > Article: 229075 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "neok" Subject: Re: Graphical NEC2 application for Linux Date: 29 Aug 2006 07:52:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1156863144.943296.179520@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156667685.445635.296240@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> bluNOboxSPAMthief wrote: > > Hi, > > I am not sure if I should call you Matt ;) > No! my name is Neoklis ("Nick" on the air, if I ever get the chance to operate ;-). Matt owns the network and kindly gave me space gratis :-) > Can you tell me if this will compile easily with OS X (10.4)? > I can't say for sure, its not a big download so give it a try. I am trying to install OpenBSD which is related to OS X but cannot boot the install disk for some reason. Best regards and good luck! Neoklis Article: 229076 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: ANTENNA TUBING ANTI-SIEZE Date: 29 Aug 2006 08:14:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1156864490.059135.72560@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <44f12a95.76519@news.optonline.net> We are mixing multiple topics here... First, the OP asked about preventing mechanical seizure between two aluminum tubes... For this I prefer a molybdenum antiseize from the auto store, or similar... I had a System One beam in the air in Michigan for 25 years... The joints were lubed with the moly and then the assembled joint was taped with 3M - #33 tape and the ends of the tubes were plugged... When I sold the house and the beam came down the tape was still on, though starting to crumble, and the tubing only need a firm twist to slide the joints apart... The mating surfaces were clean and still had a shine.. There was an invisible film of the moly antiseize staining my hands and clothing after a quarter century... Second, is the issue of blocking electrolysis between disimilar metals, eg. copper and aluminum... For this I would use the appropriate paste, NoAlOx is one brand... For copper to copper there is a different paste used.. Third is the issue of slow oxidation of aluminum which causes a high resistance joint - and possible mechanical seizure... In areas more prone to oxidation then I might prefer NoAlOx, or similar over the moly based antiseize for bolts... In Arizona aoxidation is a non issue... In Tampa oxidation is the only issue... The last topic is increasing electrical resistance of the joint when the surface oxidizes... What the antioxidation paste has is zinc particles in suspension that when clamped between the two metal surfaces actually pierces the film of oxidation mechanically and creates a lower resistance path for current flow... denny / k8do Article: 229077 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:24:52 -0400 Message-ID: <7vm8f2p53g7a6nmhenc5j380duav3rc2tv@4ax.com> References: <20tHg.17273$gY6.5766@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <7oe4f2lr255om8j04n73e8v9e4023rals4@4ax.com> <2gKIg.7915$Xl5.1583@trnddc06> <2hs6f2p6685a6ml03d5sf436l48ss5qlg7@4ax.com> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:17:34 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >Good on ya then! Do upgrade whenever you can, coz hammin' can be fun if you >can find a decent bunch to hang with. >Learning 5wpm is pretty easy and gives you a new "toy" or "language" to play >with if you are so inclined. easy for some I spent 5 years at it in my teens for a Novice license and neve got a novice license instead it was learned I have serious case os dyslexia andfew of its fellow travlers >The big plus being the new privileges and theory, and all the hi-tech >progression in radio going on in the 21st Century! >There's lots to get into. >Gud luck, >rb > > > > wrote in message >news:2hs6f2p6685a6ml03d5sf436l48ss5qlg7@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:38:54 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >> >>>Ah, my bad... sry. >>>rb >>> >> np I expect the FCC to help me correct that soon enough >>>Radio content: >>>There used to be a radio swap group here.... >> >> indeed and all kinds of radio gruops >>> >>> wrote in message >>>news:7oe4f2lr255om8j04n73e8v9e4023rals4@4ax.com... >>>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:36:43 GMT, "Woody" wrote: >>>> >>>>>Yeah, yoo big chikin. LOL >>>>> >>>>>I dare you to pick up a mic and do a radio test on 3.865 >>>>>by saying "Beep, beep, beep, beeeeeeeep"! >>>>> >>>>>rb >>>> well as a etech I realy should not try that one >>>>> >>>>>"an old friend" wrote in message >>>>>news:1156523145.805735.80970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >>>> http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> >>> >> http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ >> >> -- >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229078 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 29 Aug 2006 08:30:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1156865444.617650.136140@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > Since I don't know this Robitussin guy, I really can't say anything in reply > to this post.... > rb All you have to do (if you've got about 8 hours to spare) is go through Google archives since before they bought it from DejaNews several years ago. "Robitussin" has thousands of postings in the same venal manner he continues to use... especially his self-promotion as heroic USMC veteran which he has never, ever proved through any third-party references, digitized documents, or much of anything else other than his own AOL home page and self-description on QRZ. He is clearly into his own fantasy of imagined superpowers without the aid of Stan Lee. :-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229079 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:32:32 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: NEED TO KNOW BEST ANTENNA References: <1156838393.328804.90100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Illegal in the USA!!! Buy a legal Cobra and live on 11 meters at 15 Watts PEP [the legal USA limit]. You may be making a public confession of illegal activity!! An eight and 1/2 feet long SS whip is the BEST mobile 11 meter antenna. copdoc1@optonline.net wrote: > I have a Cobra 148 GTL that is Modifed and may be using a 250 watt amp > what would be the best Mobile Antenna. Also what is the best Mobile > Antenna with out the Amp > Please Advise > Peter LBJ1788@aol.com > Article: 229080 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 29 Aug 2006 08:46:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1156866402.993367.31180@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > So you guys got sidetracked and missed the CW call so both your guys died. > You are the weakest link. > Goodbye. > rb > > wrote in message > news:1156478196.340076.306810@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > rom: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Thurs, Aug 24 2006 6:39 pm "Sidetracked?!?" :-) I put this message into the Captain ARRL Superpower Decryption machine and the machine broke down. Last I looked (which was yesterday) there were NO Public Safety radio services which used "CW" for either "life-saving" or distress calls. The USCG doesn't monitor the OLD 500 KHz international maritime distress and safety frequency any more. International Civil Aviation Organization long ago stopped any need for carrying "CW"-proficient air crew on over-ocean flights. This "vital need" of maintaining a "pool of trained (morsemen) operators" in the mighty amateur radio (militia?) ranks is a wigment of olde-tyme morsemen's imagination. In truth, I haven't checked out the Civil Air Patrol. Maybe they have some kind of "need" for morsemen even though they use 121.5 MHz for emergencies just like all the CIVIL airways do. [transponder squawk to 77 or 7700 if that is installed; 243 MHz if a REAL military aircraft] We'll have to see what the "pilot in command" of a TN CAP two-seater has to say on that...if he isn't "busy" with his "life-saving air patrols." :-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229081 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: NoCode Techs should have to pass the CW test in a year or get booted. Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:08:34 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <_zrIg.11044$Qf.10314@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:23:06 GMT, Slow Code wrote: >"an old freind" wrote in >news:1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: > >> >> Slow Code wrote: >>> You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should >>> learn it anyway just in case. >> why? >> >> why is the fantastic ly unlikely something you should eb prepared for? why does the trol Slow code hate ham radio? http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229082 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:22:54 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:27:10 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >Yes, thanks for the info but i would like a little more gain than a standard >discone gives...going to a parabolic discone would be the alternate option >but a little too involved.... Parabolic discone??!!!?? Involved is not the word. Hi Lee, Everyone wants more gain. You don't say why and that may negate wanting gain. At the frequency you are desiring, performance is very much limited to line of sight and even 2M handhelds with rubber duckies can work the Space Shuttle an hundred miles up. Consider the downside of gain: you are a tourist at the Grand Canyon and you put a telephoto lens on your camera (high gain). When you get home and show your pictures to friends, they might ask why you went to the Grand Canyon but took pictures only of the river bed at the bottom, or a cactus on the ridge. Too much gain for the intended use which was to show the ENTIRE canyon in one shot. This would take a wide-angle lens (very low gain). Anyway, simple scaling works. Just research the model of antenna that gives you the gain characteristics you want, and scale to your band of interest. The downside here is you may find that you have designed yourself into a corner because you cannot find the right stock that supports the dimensions. For a log periodic, this might not matter so much, and especially for a receiver, but latitude is not generous. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC From Grundig1972YachtBoy210 Sat Sep 2 09:20:29 EDT 2006 Article: 229083 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Grundig1972YachtBoy210 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: FS portables (Grundig / Philips, AIR,SW, AM, LW ..) User-Agent: Newspost/2.1.1 (http://newspost.unixcab.org/) X-No-Archive: yes NNTP-Posting-Host: news.stben.net Message-ID: <44f473c8$1@news.stben.net> Date: 29 Aug 2006 19:05:12 +0200 Organization: C.S. Saint-benoit Habay (be) Lines: 30 X-Complaints-To: abusea@stben.net Path: news.unc.edu!elk.ncren.net!usenet01.sei.cmu.edu!news.cse.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.theplanet.net!inewsm1.nntp.theplanet.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!inka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!morpheus.pingos.org!news.szaf.org!news.unit0.net!newsfeed0.kamp.net!newsfeed.kamp.net!news.jgaa.com!feeder.z74.net!news.z74.net!news.stben.net!not-for-mail Xref: news0.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:229083 For sale: Some portable radios, from 60s-70s... Grundig Portable Yachtboy Radio, collectors item, perfect working condition, pots ok... 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More pictures on http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/sell/radio/ Article: 229084 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:44:42 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156602751.184741.129980@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > > In your above pulse example, there is no interference at > the impedance discontinuity and therefore a Z0-match doesn't > even exist. A Z0-match depends upon a steady-state supply > of RF waves. > > A Z0-match at the input of a tuner works exactly like the > 1/4WL thin-film anti-reflected glass coating. If one sends > a 1/2WL pulse of light at that piece of glass, there will > be reflections. Anti-reflective glass depends upon a > steady-state supply of light waves. One of the cancellation > components is 180 degrees older than the other one. You really do need to choose your words a bit more carefully, Cecil. > Let's return to the Signal Generators equipped with Circulators > and Loads (SGCL). Would you agree that the feedline contains > 300 joules in the following example? > > 200W SGCL----one second long lossless feedline----100W SGCL > 200W--> <--100W Yes. But how much is there with the circulator load removed? (Not replaced by an autotuner.) Numbers please. Why you suppose I keep asking this question, Cecil? 73, ac6xg Article: 229085 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:27:20 GMT Jim Kelley wrote: > You really do need to choose your words a bit more carefully, Cecil. Your statement is a personal opinion without technical content. >> 200W SGCL----one second long lossless feedline----100W SGCL >> 200W--> <--100W > > Yes. But how much is there with the circulator load removed? (Not > replaced by an autotuner.) Numbers please. OK, let's remove the circulator loads and replace them with unknown devices or objects inside black boxes. Here's the same one second long lossless feedline with unknown black boxes connected at each end (where BB stands for black box). BB#1------one second long lossless feedline------BB#2 200W--> <--100W Given: all conditions on the one second long lossless feedline are identical in both of the above examples. The laws of physics tell us that the joules in the two lines with identical conditions are equal, i.e. 300 joules in these two cases. It doesn't matter what exists or doesn't exist at the two ends of the line. 200 watts forward and 100 watts reverse requires 300 joules/sec. In other words, given a purely resistive Z0 and a properly calibrated wattmeter, it is impossible to get 200 watts of forward power and 100 watts of reverse power without there being 300 joules in the one second long lossless line. If there wasn't 300 joules in that line, we wouldn't measure 200 watts forward and 100 watts reverse. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229086 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: George Orwell Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Message-ID: <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:18:12 +0200 (CEST) Al Klein said: >Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >expect you to be able to understand that. Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? I can't really see in today's era, the need for them? I've been surfing around looking at ham and talking to an old friend that had a license and it look interesting to me. But, given that many professional people like myself are stretched for time, what good does all the licensing and code requirements do for you besides build up boundries to doing something new and fun? I'm in a pretty technical field, and I study to keep up in that field everyday, the last thing I want to do, is have to spend my weekends studying to talk on a radio. If less stringent requirements were there, I could easily afford the tools of the trade, and would like to just jump in and start working with a ham setup. I'm particularly interested in exploring the amateur radio/computer connections. I have no problem informally looking up information and learning on my own (heck, that's what I'm doing in the USENET group to begin with)...but, I just don't have the time for archaic rules, regulations and codes that as far as I can see...really serve no real purpose but, to keep out busy people that might like to participate. Can you give me valid reasons as to what useful purpose in today's age they serve? Thank you, noonespecial Article: 229087 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" Subject: Cheap vertcals Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:10:04 -0400 I want to put up some inexpensive vertical antennas for 20 thru 80 meters. They will be temporary not being there more than 3 years. Would EMT conduit hold up this long Article: 229088 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:34:18 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> Message-ID: George Orwell wrote: > Al Klein said: > > >>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>expect you to be able to understand that. > > > Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a commitment of time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. Balance of original post has been REDACTED. Article: 229089 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:36:08 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Cheap vertcals References: Message-ID: Jimmie D wrote: > I want to put up some inexpensive vertical antennas for 20 thru 80 meters. > They will be temporary not being there more than 3 years. Would EMT conduit > hold up this long > > SURE! But, EMT is a 'soft' aluminum and will require guying and/or other support. It is soft so electricians can bend it around corners. Article: 229090 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:59:37 GMT Jim Kelley wrote: > Why you suppose I keep asking this question, Cecil? Because you believe in intelligent waves that somehow sense their ultimate fate and therefore know how much energy to carry or not? Wave#1: "I am going to be dissipated in a circulator load and therefore, I must contain N joules of energy." Wave#2: "I am not going to be dissipated in a circulator load and therefore, I must contain zero energy." Given the following two configurations where BB stands for Black Box: BB#1----one second long lossless feedline----BB#2 200W--> <--100W BB#3----one second long lossless feedline----BB#4 200W--> <--100W Given: All voltages, currents, fields, and powers are identical in both systems. Please present us with a set of Black Boxes that will satisfy your assertions and result in different energy magnitudes in the two lines. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229091 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 29 Aug 2006 14:53:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1156888429.467001.187060@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Dave wrote: > George Orwell wrote: > > > Al Klein said: > > > > > >>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would > >>expect you to be able to understand that. > > > > > > Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? > > The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a commitment of > time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. the use is hazing why not just coem out and say that > > > Balance of original post has been REDACTED. Article: 229092 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 29 Aug 2006 15:29:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1156890554.129924.59410@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Dave wrote: > George Orwell wrote: > > > Al Klein said: > > > > > >>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would > >>expect you to be able to understand that. > > > > > > Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? > > The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a commitment of > time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. In other words, you just can't come up with a valid reason other than some emotional-traditional one, can you? What is the return on that "investment?" Being good enough to do 1930s radio operating? In a diversified HOBBY? What you really seem to be saying is that "everyone has to do it because you did it...so there, nyah, nyah..." :-) > Balance of original post has been REDACTED. You have been redacted. You have been rejected. You have been inducted. Here's a news flash: The job of the FCC (the agency that grants amateur radio licenses...and hundreds of others...) is to regulate and mitigate all USA civil radio. It does not tailor ham tests to some nebulous "tradition" of the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS). I.E., it has no reason to demand anyone take a manual morse code test except under the lobbying by the ARRL. If you want to "preserve" the ARS as requiring morsemanship for all privileges below 30 MHz, then you need to make up a Petition and submit it to the FCC. You can even ask them to RENAME the ARS to Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. The FCC allows such petitioning. They even explain how to do it on their website. Tell the FCC that you insist on maintaining 1930s standards of radio communication well beyond 2030 by keeping that morse code test forever and ever. The ARRL will love you for it. Go for it! LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229093 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Lloyd 4 Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:59:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:18:12 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell wrote: > Al Klein said: > > >Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would > >expect you to be able to understand that. > > Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? > I can't really see in today's era, the need for them? I've been surfing around looking at ham and talking to > an old friend that had a license and it look interesting to me. I've been licensed since 1955 (got my Novice license while in high school), so I'm no newcomer to the hobby. I was on 75M ssb back in the days when the old timers operating AM stations would derisively refer to ssb stations as "Donald Duck stations" and would fight the new mode tooth and nail. They would also attempt to jam us by tuning up near whatever frequency we were using. They of course lost the "debate," and ssb became the dominant voice mode on all of the HF bands by the end of the 60s. Time had passed the AM operators by, and they ceased to dominate the bands. >From my viewpoint (and I once could do 35 wpm on CW), the CW debate is pretty much the same thing as the old ssb debate, because both boil down to an attempt to preserve imaginary status. Time has moved on; all of the arguments have been made which can be made in favor of a code proficiency requirement, and its proponents have lost. It shouldn't even be discussed any longer, because it's a waste of time to do so. The debate has been over for years. Most of the people who want to keep a CW requirement seem to be like those old men of the 1950's era who wanted to keep ssb off the HF bands: They appear to be afraid of losing what they perceive as their status in the hobby. During the 50's, the operators of high power AM stations realized that kids like me with an ssb transmitter could outperform their own stations at a fraction of the cost and could not be jammed by their carriers. That was the REAL reason that they fought against ssb. It was a macho thing. They wanted to continue to dominate certain frequencies, and they knew that they couldn't do it in the presence of ssb transmissions. IMHOTO (In my humble Old Timer's Opinion) it's the same way with CW: Certain old timers are trying to protect what they perceive as their status in the hobby. They find the absence of a CW requirement to be threatening -- even frightening -- because they don't think they can maintain their emeritus status if the requirement goes away. So jump into the hobby, and don't worry about the remaining, disgruntled old men who would keep on demanding mandatory code testing. Their time has passed, and the requirement will ultimately go away. CW, on the other hand, will not go away. Article: 229094 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Steve" Subject: Re: Ethical question Date: 29 Aug 2006 16:18:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1156893500.202511.48710@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > > > SC These aren't your only two options. You could simply let it rip and proudly accept full responsibility. Article: 229095 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW..., would Robesin still be an idiot? Date: 29 Aug 2006 16:21:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > Woody wrote: > > Since I don't know this Robitussin guy, I really can't say anything in reply > > to this post.... > > rb > > All you have to do (if you've got about 8 hours to spare) is go > through Google archives since before they bought it from > DejaNews several years ago. "Robitussin" has thousands of > postings in the same venal manner he continues to use... > especially his self-promotion as heroic USMC veteran which > he has never, ever proved through any third-party references, > digitized documents, or much of anything else other than his > own AOL home page and self-description on QRZ. > > He is clearly into his own fantasy of imagined superpowers > without the aid of Stan Lee. > > :-) There's some real gems in there. Lawsuits. Robeson sues people, or at least he says he does. In his last lawsuit, he got an Upper Peninsula attorney gratis, then made comments on who his free attorney's wife might be sleeping with. Meanwhile, the person he is suing has yet to be served. "Bricks through windows, slashed tires, terrorized wives." These are bad things that happen to people who shoot their mouths off, as some people have been told they do. Mind you, Robesin isn't the one throwing bricks, slashing tires, or terrorizing wives. "Other people" do this sort of stuff. "Dialing..." On Robesin's personal authority as a male nurse and failed Marine, he can make a phone call anywhere in the USA and have you picked up on his say so. Really. "PUTZ, Putz, putz" Disagree with Robesin and you are a penis with a yiddish accent. "PEDOPHILE, Pedophile, pedophile" If you disagree with Robesin and you give of your time to a youth group, you are a pervert. "HOMO, Homo, homo" Disagree with Robesin and you are queer, with lots and lots of inuendo. Robesin is a national hero, taking part in seven hostile actions as a Marine. Yet, his only overseas assignment is Okinawa. Never been injured, but discharged after only 18 years. Says he's retired. Says he's disabled. Says it's not medical. Says he has been rehabilitated by the VA. "Ask the VA." Robesin got back into uniform as a Tennessee State Guard "officer" of some kind. Very short lived career. Robesin got back into uniform as a Civil Air Patrol (CAP) "officer" of some kind. Says he's a Major now. Photo of him in a sage green (not blue) flight suit on his QRZ website. As far as I know, most CAP volunteers are involved in training youth/Cadets. Hmmmm? Robesin got a vanity call, K4CAP, while in the CAP. The CAP HQ is at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama. Then he gave it up. Look where his old call now resides. Robesin got back into uniform as a male nurse. Says he doesn't wear the white dress uniform. Probably just regular pants and a v-neck lavendar colo[u]red top. Robesin has military medals. He has lots of medals. Many of those medals he didn't earn. Robesin used to be an ASSISTANT NCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa. Doesn't know the first thing about it. Doesn't know what a MOD is. "MARS >>>IS<<< Amateur Radio" according to Robesin Yup, you heard it here first. A well know amateur radio outlet had the owners daughter's photo featured in a prominent amateur radio publication. Robesin said she was selling "Something" but it wasn't radios. He's a swell guy. Robesin can make comments all day long about how your children won't respect you. His child died from severe birth defects and he knows that no one will make comments about his children. He's a swell guy. Robesin needs to talk to the wives. He needs to talk to Len's wife. He needs to talk to my wife. He needs to talk to Mark's wife. He wants to talk to them on the phone or in person. He wants to mail them. He wants to knock on my door to talk to my wife and posts partial addresses so you know to expect a visit. Now he makes jokes about Len and Mark's wife. He's a swell guy. I could go on, but I don't have 8 hours as Len suggests... So what's the real beef??? I disagreed with Robesin. He doesn't like the way I think. So what's the real, Real beef? I don't think the Morse Code exam should be retained for an HF license in amateur radio. Article: 229096 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:21:53 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <1156888429.467001.187060@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <2_idnUWfZuiTUWnZnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com> I'll say it again ... INVESTMENT!! If an activity is to have value it must have INVESTMENT. Whether it be Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Little League coach, Soccer MOM, fishing, poker playing, or just watching tv. All require INVESTMENT if it is to have value. If you don't/can't make the INVESTMENT, find something else to become involved with. It has nothing to do with hazing. - - - an old friend wrote: > Dave wrote: > >>George Orwell wrote: >> >> >>>Al Klein said: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>>>expect you to be able to understand that. >>> >>> >>>Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? >> >>The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a commitment of >>time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. > > the use is hazing why not just coem out and say that > >> >>Balance of original post has been REDACTED. > > Article: 229097 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: sidwellfriends@aol.com Subject: Re: Ethical question Date: 29 Aug 2006 16:22:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1156893751.531103.153530@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > > > SC If I am in a store, such as Safeway, I find a lone isle, then let it rip - sometimes, someone will walk into the isle, as I am exiting, and I know they get a good whiff, then I laugh. Article: 229098 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dee Flint" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:25:40 -0400 Message-ID: "George Orwell" wrote in message news:1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it... > Al Klein said: > >>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>expect you to be able to understand that. > > Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. > What use is the code requirements? > I can't really see in today's era, the need for them? I've been surfing > around looking at ham and talking to > an old friend that had a license and it look interesting to me. > > But, given that many professional people like myself are stretched for > time, what good does all the licensing > and code requirements do for you besides build up boundries to doing > something new and fun? > If you will read Part 97 (the rules that govern amateur radio), the government doesn't care about you doing something new and fun. The section on basis and purpose makes it quite clear that their objectives are quite different. They want people knowledgeable in ham radio and who are interested in expanding that knowledge. > I'm in a pretty technical field, and I study to keep up in that field > everyday, the last thing I want to do, > is have to spend my weekends studying to talk on a radio. If less > stringent requirements were there, I could > easily afford the tools of the trade, and would like to just jump in and > start working with a ham setup. I'm > particularly interested in exploring the amateur radio/computer > connections. > > I have no problem informally looking up information and learning on my own > (heck, that's what I'm doing in > the USENET group to begin with)...but, I just don't have the time for > archaic rules, regulations and codes > that as far as I can see...really serve no real purpose but, to keep out > busy people that might like to > participate. > Until and unless you have actually participated in amateur radio in a wide variety of aspects, it is difficult to asses which rules, regulations, knowledge, etc are archaic and which should remain as requirements. Notice that the majority of people advocating ditching requirements are those who have not yet passed those requirements, regardless of their age. Note that the majority of people advocating keeping the requirements have passed them and have experience in amateur radio again regardless of their age. As far as "busy people" go, again refer to the basis and purpose as given in the rules. The government is not concerned about your choice of how you use your time. It has no bearing on what their goals are. > Can you give me valid reasons as to what useful purpose in today's age > they serve? > Every piece of knowledge has its uses. The difficult part is winnowing through it and decide what should be tested and what should not. Here's why I think code should still be tested: 1. It is still one of the basic building blocks of ham radio. For example, one of the "hot" digital modes is PSK31. The developer drew upon personal experience and incorporated features derived from that mode to make a robust digital mode. 2. Because it is not "book learning", too many people will avoid it since it is different than the type of learning they are accustomed to. They will falsely think it is hard when in reality it is different. Requiring them to learn it gets them over that resistance hump. 3. Each and every mode has its strong points and weak points. Each of us that participate in ham radio should attempt to gain personal experience in those modes so that we know by that personal experience what those strengths and weaknesses are. If you are interested, I could construct various scenarios where mode X is the best mode. However, unless you specifically want to know, I won't clutter up the newsgroup at this time with discussions that have been repeated many times by many people already. Dee, N8UZE Article: 229099 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:38:03 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <1156890554.129924.59410@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: LenAnderson, You have obviously made an INVESTMENT in your technical profession. Make one in your participation in the radio service!! Amateur Radio is a SERVICE!!! If you only think of it as a hobby your thinking is flawed. /s/ Dave, BSEE, Program Chief Engineer-retired, LGM-118A(RS), MK21/W87 - - - Article: 229100 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 29 Aug 2006 16:42:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1156894971.435041.226460@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1156111049.458067.33380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> Woody wrote: > Who's gonna see a single want ad in 300 postings about nothing? Seinfeld ran for eight years and it was all about nothing. People cried at the end. > Who wants to pilfer 300 postings about nothing to find a sale ad? > On the Somalia thing, > Do you mean extremists/terrorists that claim to follow Islam, or just bas= ic > Islamists? Here's one: ""Somali Islamist gunmen undergo military training http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=3D/breaking_news/breaking_news__a= frica/&articleid=3D281612 {EXCERPT} Mail & Guardian Online, South Africa Somalia's dominant Islamic movement on Tuesday launched intensive military training for hundreds of its gunmen under a plan to create instruments of statehood......"" > It looks like you mean the former. > > Please understand that Al Qaeda is a group of terrorists/extremists, it > doesn't matter what religion they > claim to follow. > > rb Here's another: ""SOMALIA, THE BLACK HOLE OF ANARCHY BY AHMED Q. BURSALIID In mid July 2005 The U.S. intelligence agents, working with local warlords, have carried out counter terrorist operations to seize sus=ADpects. "Somalia remains the theatre for a shadowy confrontation involving local Ji=ADhadis, foreign Al Qaeda operatives and in=ADtelligence services from a number of re=ADgional and Western countries," says a report by the International Crisis Group in 2005. The report says the "dirty war be=ADtween terrorists and counter-terrorist oper=ADatives in Mogadishu appears to have en=ADtered a new and more vicious stage that threatens to push the country further towards Jihadism and extremist violence un=ADless its root causes are properly addressed." The Somali transitional federal government was formed in neighbouring Kenya in 2004 and moved into Somalia June 2005. However, the administration has failed to relocate to Mogadishu, the Somali capital, because the city was considered unsafe. Due to the insecurity of Mogadishu, the TFG relocated to Jawhar, which it later decided to move to Baidoa. Warlords and leaders of Islamic courts have been fighting in Mogadishu for about five months. This led to the loss of hundreds of civilians and destruction of properties. Somalia, which had been in a state of anarchy for more than a decade, has once again gone to war; this war was somehow different from previous ones. The nature of this war is seen to have some religious and political clash while previous ones were much related to tribal and feudal conflicts. Each one of the conflicting parties is claiming that the other group is related to Al-Qaeda when the reality is somehow different from that. After months of armed conflicts within the capital city of Somalia, Union of Islamic Courts took the lead with enormous points by eliminating the warlords who took hostage the country and its people for 16 years. United States of America, which earlier denied any allegation of helping or giving hand to the warlords in the fight to weed out the Islamic Militia in Somalia shortly after the takeover admitted that it had been supporting warlords to destabilise the Islamic militia. America has been an active player in the politics of Somalia, and until now its policy towards restoring peace and stability in the war -torn Somalia is somehow obscure. Somalis believe that it is the right time to take advantage to restore the lost hope of good governance in the country as Union of Islamic Courts led by Sheikh Sharif imposed law and order on Mogadishu, which was seen neither for 16 years. Hundreds of families from overseas countries returned back to Mogadishu, the capital city of Somalia since the takeover took place. At first Transitional Federal Government welcomed the political change, which took place in Mogadishu as the Union of Islamic Courts disarmed a pack of US-backed warlords that took the country and its people hostage for more than a decade. But soon after the Islamic Militia started to capture some other cities, the TFG warned the Union of Islamic Courts of capturing farther cities. A big gap of political misunderstanding came in between the Transitional Federal Government and the Union of Islamic Courts, after the president of fragile Transitional Federal Government requested peacekeeping forces from the African Union. As the new Somali constitution inked in Kenya says, "Peacekeeping forces should not come from the neighbouring countries (Ethiopia, Kenya and Djibouti)". Likewise, the parliament passed a motion, which it was requesting peacekeeping troops to Somalia without paying attention to the classification of peacekeeping forces from AU countries and of front line countries. This has created an escalation of political crisis in Somalia. Ethiopia, which is the common enemy of Somalia has sent its troops to Somalia in an attempt to protect the Transitional Federal Government. This time, Arab League took the political platform of Somalia to mediate the two conflicting parties. TFG and UIC were invited to attend a mediation conference held on June 2006 in Sudan to settle their differences. After a reconciliation conference, presided over by Sudanese president Omar Hassan Albashir, the current chairman of Arab League, the reconciliation process derailed with unknown reasons but it is believed that Ethiopia was the main figure, which made the reconciliation process fail as the outcome of the meeting could not meet the criteria of Ethiopia's plan to Somalia and then, President Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed, a well-known pro-Ethiopian warlord and his loyal prime minister Ali Mohamed Gedi, a vet scientist started to advocate the legality of Ethiopian Army presence in Somalia. The Somalis are of the opinion that the involvement of Ethiopian Army in the peacekeeping operations in Somalia could cause havoc and deterioration of the political condition of the country in any case as Ethiopia is an old aged enemy of Somalia in East Africa. While a vast majority of the Somali public strongly opposed to deployment of Ethiopian troop into Somalia under any pretext, president Yusuf's political stance towards the deployment of Ethiopian troops in Somalia is clear and also in action by denying the presence of Ethiopian troops in Somalia just to protect his presidential seat. Since the reconciliation conference in Sudan derailed a number of ministers resigned due to the political misunderstanding between TFG and UIC. Prime minister declared that he would be nominating successors of the resigned 24 ministers. In addition to that, the prime minister himself survived after the Somali parliament passed a motion of no confidence against him recently. Moreover, Prime minister of Ethiopia Milez zanawi whose government earlier denied any presence of Ethiopian troops in Somalia told BBC that his government has sent troops to Somalia to protect the Transitional Federal Government from the Union of Islamic Courts. While on the other hand, Eritrea is also believed to be an active supporter for the Union of Islamic Courts. Somalis believe that the support from both Ethiopia and Eritrea respectively is much related to a proxy war in between them. US government warned Ethiopia and Eritrea stop the proxy war they are playing in the Somali territory. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]"" Article: 229101 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:44:12 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> Message-ID: Lloyd 4 wrote: > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:18:12 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell wrote: > >>Al Klein said: >> >> >>>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>>expect you to be able to understand that. >> >>Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. What use is the code requirements? >>I can't really see in today's era, the need for them? I've been surfing around looking at ham and talking to >>an old friend that had a license and it look interesting to me. > As long a 'Rare DX' uses CW, CW will live and thrive in the DX community. A DX pile of 100 stations on CW occupies much less bandwidth than 1 SSB station. The CW contact rate exceeds the SSB rate. As long a 'Rare DX' uses CW, CW will live and thrive in the DX community. It's your choice: if you want to play the DX game learn the rules including 25 wpm CW. If you want to operate an appliance, but an appliance. Article: 229102 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:45:59 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Ethical question References: Message-ID: Are you standing in front of me or behind me? Slow Code wrote: > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > > > SC Article: 229103 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:53:05 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Jim Kelley wrote: > >> Why do you suppose I keep asking this question, Cecil? > > > Because you believe in intelligent waves that somehow > sense their ultimate fate and therefore know how much > energy to carry or not? No. That's something you keep insisting on talking about. Try to keep your mind focussed on the fact that we're discussing the steady state. (Or as you might proffer, after the waves have "decided" what they're going to do.) How about we just get back to the question. Energy in your 1 sec. transmission line, only with no load on the circulator (and no autotuner). How much? Explain. Try it! 73 de ac6xg Article: 229104 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mike Subject: Re: Ethical question References: Message-ID: <9w5Jg.4167$y61.598@fed1read05> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:06:13 -0700 Slow Code wrote: > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > > > SC Radio Shack - Loud ripper Ham Radio Outlet - Hold it in Fry's Electronics - SBD Article: 229105 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jack Ricci" Subject: Re: Ethical question Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:33:27 -0400 Message-ID: References: > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? "Slow Code" wrote in message news:xR3Jg.3041$xQ1.1863@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... Lighting a match would be a blast! Jack > > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > > > SC Article: 229106 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Re: Ethical question Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:59:43 -0700 Message-ID: References: ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:12:29 GMT, Slow Code wrote: > >If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the >pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out >and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > > >SC ------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------ I always take a CB'er with me for just such emergencies. -- Mr Bill Article: 229107 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:00:12 -0400 Message-ID: <27s9f2poa2toknekc4so47k8urajlmjcda@4ax.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <1156888429.467001.187060@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <2_idnUWfZuiTUWnZnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:21:53 -0400, Dave wrote: >I'll say it again ... INVESTMENT!! > >If an activity is to have value it must have INVESTMENT. Bullshit I value my tech license not because I had to work for it but becuase it has been a great return on my effort if Ihad had to work twice as hard Id value it half as much http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229108 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: NoCode Techs should have to pass the CW test in a year or get booted. Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:03:15 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <_zrIg.11044$Qf.10314@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:12:32 GMT, Slow Code wrote: >Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote in news:fjp8f2llhqlnk43dqa675695ra5g4v0os8@4ax.com: > >> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:23:06 GMT, Slow Code wrote: >> >>>"an old freind" wrote in >>>news:1156635009.999454.106990@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: >>> >>>> >>>> Slow Code wrote: >>>>> You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should >>>>> learn it anyway just in case. >>>> why? >>>> >>>> why is the fantastic ly unlikely something you should eb prepared for? >> why does the trol Slow code hate ham radio? >> http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ >> > > >Motivating hams to be better hams is a good thing. > > >For example, if you were going to lose your internet if you didn't learn >how to type and spell after a year, I'm sure you'd be learning how to type >and spell. But since there is no requirement that you have to type and >spell properly after a year, you continue on murdering the english >language. nope you over look facts, I can't type or spel without making at least twice the effort you do if you were told ththat everyone in the world would die if yu did not learn to fly by flapigng your arms you would be motivated to learn. However it does nt fllow you would learn > >SC http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229109 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW..., would Robesin still be an idiot? Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:12:37 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156285189.249991.19140@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156299261.351592.9880@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1156382321.909740.191980@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1156387616.130756.18380@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156865444.617650.136140@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> On 29 Aug 2006 16:21:38 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: >> Woody wrote: > >> > Since I don't know this Robitussin guy, I really can't say anything in reply >> > to this post.... >> > rb >> >> All you have to do (if you've got about 8 hours to spare) is go >> through Google archives since before they bought it from >> DejaNews several years ago. "Robitussin" has thousands of >> postings in the same venal manner he continues to use... >> especially his self-promotion as heroic USMC veteran which >> he has never, ever proved through any third-party references, >> digitized documents, or much of anything else other than his >> own AOL home page and self-description on QRZ. >> >> He is clearly into his own fantasy of imagined superpowers >> without the aid of Stan Lee. >> >> :-) > >There's some real gems in there. > >Lawsuits. Robeson sues people, or at least he says he does. In his >last lawsuit, he got an Upper Peninsula attorney gratis, then made >comments on who his free attorney's wife might be sleeping with. >Meanwhile, the person he is suing has yet to be served. acrualywaiti ng now for 5 different lawsuits from steve > >"Bricks through windows, slashed tires, terrorized wives." These are >bad things that happen to people who shoot their mouths off, as some >people have been told they do. Mind you, Robesin isn't the one >throwing bricks, slashing tires, or terrorizing wives. "Other people" >do this sort of stuff. his other selves perhaps > >"Dialing..." On Robesin's personal authority as a male nurse and >failed Marine, he can make a phone call anywhere in the USA and have >you picked up on his say so. Really. yep whow much safer we are for him > >"PUTZ, Putz, putz" Disagree with Robesin and you are a penis with a >yiddish accent. and then he dinies he makes sexauly based insults > >"PEDOPHILE, Pedophile, pedophile" If you disagree with Robesin and you >give of your time to a youth group, you are a pervert. or just breath air (witness Tood Hans and Myself) > >"HOMO, Homo, homo" Disagree with Robesin and you are queer, with lots >and lots of inuendo. that is you todd Han and scores of others > >Robesin is a national hero, taking part in seven hostile actions as a >Marine. Yet, his only overseas assignment is Okinawa. Never been >injured, but discharged after only 18 years. Says he's retired. Says >he's disabled. Says it's not medical. Says he has been rehabilitated >by the VA. "Ask the VA." well I he=ard the army in wirtiing today They afrim the existance of my old unit > >Robesin got back into uniform as a Tennessee State Guard "officer" of >some kind. Very short lived career. maybe that gruop held him to professional stanards unlike CAP > >Robesin got back into uniform as a Civil Air Patrol (CAP) "officer" of >some kind. Says he's a Major now. Photo of him in a sage green (not >blue) flight suit on his QRZ website. As far as I know, most CAP >volunteers are involved in training youth/Cadets. Hmmmm? I know that does worry me too > >Robesin got a vanity call, K4CAP, while in the CAP. The CAP HQ is at >Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama. Then he gave it up. Look where >his old call now resides. > >Robesin got back into uniform as a male nurse. Says he doesn't wear >the white dress uniform. Probably just regular pants and a v-neck >lavendar colo[u]red top. > >Robesin has military medals. He has lots of medals. Many of those >medals he didn't earn. has he ever listed them? > >Robesin used to be an ASSISTANT NCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa. Doesn't >know the first thing about it. Doesn't know what a MOD is. > >"MARS >>>IS<<< Amateur Radio" according to Robesin Yup, you heard it >here first. > >A well know amateur radio outlet had the owners daughter's photo >featured in a prominent amateur radio publication. Robesin said she >was selling "Something" but it wasn't radios. He's a swell guy. > >Robesin can make comments all day long about how your children won't >respect you. His child died from severe birth defects and he knows >that no one will make comments about his children. He's a swell guy. > >Robesin needs to talk to the wives. He needs to talk to Len's wife. >He needs to talk to my wife. He needs to talk to Mark's wife. He >wants to talk to them on the phone or in person. He wants to mail >them. He wants to knock on my door to talk to my wife and posts >partial addresses so you know to expect a visit. Now he makes jokes >about Len and Mark's wife. He's a swell guy. > >I could go on, but I don't have 8 hours as Len suggests... > >So what's the real beef??? I disagreed with Robesin. He doesn't like >the way I think. prehaps it was he disliked that you THINK at all > >So what's the real, Real beef? I don't think the Morse Code exam >should be retained for an HF license in amateur radio. me neither looks liek we will win http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229110 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 02:23:51 GMT Jim Kelley wrote: > How about we just get back to the question. Energy in your 1 sec. > transmission line, only with no load on the circulator (and no > autotuner). How much? Explain. Try it! I honestly don't know what happens when the third port of the circulator is unterminated but it is irrelevant because the steady-state forward and reflected powers would not be the same. I concede to you the fact that one can always make an example too complicated to analyze presumably for the purpose of diverting the issue. But why would you want to divert the issue? The real question is: Do two identical feedlines with identical signal characteristics contain the same amount of energy as in the following two examples. Again SGCL is a Signal Generator with a Circulator and Load resistor. Z0 is 50 ohms and the load is 291.42 ohms. 200W SGCL-----one second long lossless feedline---load 200W--> <--100W lossless 100W---tuner--one second long lossless feedline---load 200W--> <--100W It is easy to prove that the first example contains 300 joules in the feedline after two seconds. It is easy to specify that the conditions in the feedline in the two examples are identical during steady-state. Are you asserting that two identical feedlines with identical conditions contain a different number of joules? I have another example in another posting. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229111 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 29 Aug 2006 19:29:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1156904991.941660.246260@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Dee Flint wrote: > "George Orwell" wrote in message > news:1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it... > > Al Klein said: > Until and unless you have actually participated in amateur radio in a wide > variety of aspects, it is difficult to asses which rules, regulations, > knowledge, etc are archaic and which should remain as requirements. Notice > that the majority of people advocating ditching requirements are those who > have not yet passed those requirements, regardless of their age. Note that > the majority of people advocating keeping the requirements have passed them > and have experience in amateur radio again regardless of their age. stop lying all the officers of NCI have passed the requirement they support doing away with Article: 229112 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156613044.523162.105640@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4b0Ig.11106$%j7.7142@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 02:34:15 GMT Jim Kelley wrote: > Try to keep > your mind focussed on the fact that we're discussing the steady state. If one wants to know where the energy in the transmission line came from, one must consider the initial transient state. Let's take a simple example like the one W7EL uses in his food for thought #1, a simple stub, except let's make it one second long and lossless. 100W------one second long lossless feedline------open During the first two seconds, the source pours 200 joules into the stub. After two seconds, steady-state is reached and there is no net transfer of energy in either direction at the source. Where are the 200 joules that were sourced and not dissipated? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229113 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "cmdr buzz corey" Subject: Re: Ethical question Date: 29 Aug 2006 19:56:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1156906603.494538.93670@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > Ever wonder how a crowded elevator smells to a midget? Article: 229114 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "kb9rqz@hotmail.com" Subject: disgusting troll Date: 29 Aug 2006 20:04:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1156907044.972012.137400@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? you post shit like this and are critize anyone for their concent? Article: 229115 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44F50728.9010302@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:34:00 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: disgusting troll References: <1156907044.972012.137400@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> kb9rqz@hotmail.com wrote: > Slow Code wrote: > >>If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the >>pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out >>and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > > > > you post shit like this and are critize anyone for their concent? > May be a bit childish, but it's not THAT bad. Article: 229116 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: disgusting troll Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:44:31 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1156907044.972012.137400@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <44F50728.9010302@fuse.net> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:34:00 -0400, jawod wrote: >kb9rqz@hotmail.com wrote: >> Slow Code wrote: >> >>>If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the >>>pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out >>>and hope someone else gets blamed for it? >> >> >> >> you post shit like this and are critize anyone for their concent? >> >May be a bit childish, but it's not THAT bad. it is disgusting and chidlish and is certainly a case for invoking the saying people that live in glass houses should dress inn basement http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229117 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 29 Aug 2006 21:58:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1156913916.664238.40320@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> From: Dave on Tues, Aug 29 2006 4:38 pm >LenAnderson, You have obviously made an INVESTMENT in your >technical profession. Yes, I have. Not only has it been intellectually rewarding, it was also monetarily rewarding...for the last 54 years. >Make one in your participation in the radio service!! Kiss my yes, "Dave," I've "participated" in numerous radio SERVICES of USA civil radio and in DoD contract work from below LF to Ku-Band. In these previous 54 years I've communicated from land, from the air, from the ocean surface...even once "worked" a station ON the moon. Never once in 53 years was I EVER required to either use or know on-off-keying manual radiotelegraphy. >Amateur Radio is a SERVICE!!! If you only think of it as a hobby your thinking >is flawed. "Dave," you are SO FLAWED that you can't think straight. Here's the real story: Go to the FULL Title 47, C.F.R., and LOOK at ALL the radio SERVICES. The word "service" used in Title 47 is a regulatory term denoting a type and kind of radio activity being regulated under a Part. Go write the FCC if you don't believe that. But, you won't believe that since you are obviously stuck in some kind of "patriotic" pipe-dream where you think a HOBBY activity is some kind of "national service." Look in Part 95, the Personal Radio SERVICES. In there you will find the Citizens Band Radio SERVICE and the Radio- Control Radio SERVICE. Those are all SERVICES, "Dave." There is NOTHING wrong with having a HOBBY. It's a fine hobby in fact. What is wrong, seriously wrong, with your (observable) thinking is that US amateur radio is some kind of quasi-military "national need" that is somehow "important to the national welfare." It isn't. Amateur radio is about as "vital to the nation" as CB or some model airplane flyers on one of the 72 MHz channels. Yes, HAMS get neat certificates from the federal government (suitable for framing) and like to go around saying "they are 'authorized' by the feds" as if that were some Nobel- laureate accomplishment. It isn't. The FCC is tasked with regulating and mitigating ALL United States civil radio. Since amateur radio transmitters emit RF that requires the FCC to regulate it. The FCC, or rather its predecessors (before 1934), decided that licensing was a way of doing that regulation. To get that license required taking a test. That TEST was never, ever any sort of academic achievement thing (FCC was never chartered to be an academic institution), just something to satisfy the FCC that a license applicant was sufficiently knowledgeable to get that license. Note: Satisfed the FCC...not the ARRL, NOT the nebulous "ham community" or even any "Hams in da Hood." Have you got that straight yet, "Dave?" Did you take some kind of oath of "service" on getting your amateur license? Raise the right hand and repeat after whoever was prompting you on the oath? No? I didn't think so. I took a REAL oath on 13 March 1952, "Dave," entering the United States Army. A Real SERVICE, "Dave." I did my "eight" and got an Honorable Discharge. From February 1953 to end of January 1956 I worked HF comms in Big Time radio. You can even download a photo essay of that from this link: http://sujan.hallikainen.org/BroadcastHistory/uploads/My3Years.pdf It's 6 MB and will take about 19 minutes download over a POTS dial-up connection. If you look closely at those 20 pages you won't find a single thing about "working CW" (on-off-keying manual telegraphy) yet the whole station ran 24/7 pushing about 220K messages a month. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to send that many (some of which were encrypted) by manual telegraphy unless the signal battalion was doubled. It didn't have to be because the messages got through and on-time. That was 53 to 51 years ago, "Dave." What do you think the military uses NOW for communications? Data, "Dave," Data. High-speed data, "Dave," not some dinky 1200 baud amateur stuff. DIGITAL. Digital can be on-line encrypted and on-line decrypted securely. You show me where the REAL Services use manual radiotelegraphy, "Dave." They don't. It is voice and/or data, most of it in the field done DIGITALLY. >/s/ Dave, BSEE, Program Chief Engineer-retired, LGM-118A(RS), MK21/W87 WTF, "Dave?" So, you tacked on a bunch of undescribed acronym things supposedly project numbers or IDs. Are we to be "impressed?" I'm not. I've worked alongside and for PhDs who didn't bother with IMAGE and all that rank-status-title BS... WE got the job done, working together. Amateur radio MIGHT get something done working together. But, you olde-tymers won't. You have to RULE, holding fast to the traditions of 50 to 70 years ago...because YOU and all the olde-tymers had to do it so everyone else has to...and all you olde-tymer morsemen think that "CW" is somehow "best." It isn't "best." If you really have a BSEE instead of just PR BS about morsemanship, you would realize that. > "Dave," amateur radio isn't about missles. Save your energy for donating DVDs of "Strategic Air Command" (starring Jimmy Stewart) to give to impressionable youngsters. I've been in the smoke-and-fire trade of rocket engines for a little while (Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International). Trust me, rocket engines do NOT use manual radiotelegraphy. BTW, SAC is GONE, "Dave." A whole reorganization in the USAF some time ago. No more "oil burner routes" or flying out to loiter near the USSR (the USSR is gone, too). BTW, there were SSB transmitters emitting 12 KHz wide RF long before SAC got the single-channel SSB stuff to use on such loitering. I know, having to keep a few of those REAL SSB transmitters running correctly. Now, "Dave," I can't fault on-off-keying CW any. The key fob for our 2005 Malibu MAXX uses that. Yes, the last vestige of high-speed CW (REAL CW) done digitally. Done by the hundreds of thousands all over the country daily. Nearly all of them operated by unlicensed NON-MORSE-TESTED civilians! That Chebbie got in our garage courtesy of "investments," "Dave." Investments in REAL work, not playing like big-time 1930s radio ops "jobs" of a long- past age by AMATEURS. Beep, beep, LenAnderson@ieee.org Life Member, IEEE Article: 229118 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 29 Aug 2006 22:04:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1156914277.288760.133060@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> From: Dee Flint on Tues, Aug 29 2006 4:25 pm Email: "Dee Flint" Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.scanner >"George Orwell" wrote in message >> Al Klein said: >>>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>>expect you to be able to understand that. > >> Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. >> What use is the code requirements? >> I can't really see in today's era, the need for them? I've been surfing >> around looking at ham and talking to >> an old friend that had a license and it look interesting to me. > >> But, given that many professional people like myself are stretched for >> time, what good does all the licensing >> and code requirements do for you besides build up boundries to doing >> something new and fun? > >If you will read Part 97 (the rules that govern amateur radio), the >government doesn't care about you doing something new and fun. Dee, the "rules that govern amateur radio" are the ENTIRETY of Title 47 C.F.R. I don't care that the ARRL pushes ONLY Part 97. Part 1 has plenty about amateur radio as well as a few other Parts. Look it up. It's free at the US Government Printing Office website. >The section >on basis and purpose makes it quite clear that their objectives are quite >different. The "objectives" of the FCC are to regulate and mitigate ALL civil radio in the USA, Dee. That's what the Communications Act of 1934 and the Telecommunications Act of 1996 chartered them to do (plus quite a bit on wireline comms...which don't apply to amateur radio). The "Basis and Purpose" has a lot of POLITICAL boilerplate in it, just like most of the other Parts for other radio SERVICES. Get real. > They want people knowledgeable in ham radio and who are >interested in expanding that knowledge. The FCC is mainly interested in all radio services' users FOLLOWING THE REGULATIONS, Dee. That's their job. The FCC doesn't "want" people a certain way, only to FOLLOW THE REGULATIONS. >> I'm in a pretty technical field, and I study to keep up in that field >> everyday, the last thing I want to do, >> is have to spend my weekends studying to talk on a radio. If less >> stringent requirements were there, I could >> easily afford the tools of the trade, and would like to just jump in and >> start working with a ham setup. I'm >> particularly interested in exploring the amateur radio/computer >> connections. "George," you've got a whole bunch in this forum who think that amateur radio is some kind of veddy formal "JOB" with absolutes on THE WAY THEY DO IT. It's almost draconian in the insistence of "correct proceedure." No one will get fired from that "job" if they don't use "correct" ways but the way they blabber on you'd think they were "supervisors." >> I have no problem informally looking up information and learning on my own >> (heck, that's what I'm doing in >> the USENET group to begin with)...but, I just don't have the time for >> archaic rules, regulations and codes >> that as far as I can see...really serve no real purpose but, to keep out >> busy people that might like to >> participate. > >Until and unless you have actually participated in amateur radio in a wide >variety of aspects, it is difficult to asses which rules, regulations, >knowledge, etc are archaic and which should remain as requirements. Horsepuckey. Dee, "George" is talking about GETTING INTO amateur radio. Don't give us this olde-tymer morseperson "I've operated all the modes there are" stuff. Dee, I've operated lots more modes on radio than YOU are allowed to as an amateur. Manual morse code ability IS an ARCHAIC mode of communications Dee. ALL the other US radio services have either dropped it for comms or never bothered with it in the first place. ALL. The ARRL and the olde-tyme morsepersons insist that the manual morse test "MUST" remain to "show something" about commitment and dedication. To WHOM, Dee? To YOU? To da Hams in da hood? >Notice >that the majority of people advocating ditching requirements are those who >have not yet passed those requirements, regardless of their age. Dee, before you get to the downright-bitchy stage, may I remind you that some of us professionals in radio and electronics NEVER BOTHERED WITH AN AMATEUR RADIO TEST? I got my First 'Phone in 1956. Considerably more testing involved than a ham license test then. Could YOU get a GROL now? Could YOU get a job working with radio hardware? >Note that >the majority of people advocating keeping the requirements have passed them >and have experience in amateur radio again regardless of their age. Yes, nine-year-old Extras possess the maturity and wisdom of the ages, all through having taken that morse test and gotten that magic certificate (suitable for framing). >As far as "busy people" go, again refer to the basis and purpose as given in >the rules. The government is not concerned about your choice of how you use >your time. It has no bearing on what their goals are. Dee, you are LECTURING again. [just how long have you been in ANY radio?] Dee, go look at some 1990 documents on the creation of the no-code-test Technician license. There's a copy available for free download on the NCI website. Over 16 years ago the FCC said outright that it didn't think the manual morse code test suited their purpose in granting an amateur radio license. The FCC said the same thing in last year's NPRM. I DO have to remind you that the FCC's only job is to REGULATE all civil radio in the USA. Their only task is to do that and mitigate matters of interference with other radio services (plus wireline but that's not concerning amateurs). Theirs is not to brainwash hams...that's the ARRL's task. >> Can you give me valid reasons as to what useful purpose in today's age >> they serve? [stand by for the LITANY from the Church of St. Hiram] >Every piece of knowledge has its uses. The difficult part is winnowing >through it and decide what should be tested and what should not. Ahem, to olde-tyme morsepersons, manual morse code skill MUST be tested for any radio privileges below 30 MHz. That's engraved in everlasting marble and protected by nuclear-blast armor plate. >Here's why I think code should still be tested: >1. It is still one of the basic building blocks of ham radio. Horsepucky. It was only the first mode used...had to be in the primitive-technology of early radio using "spark." Spark is outlawed now, Dee. > For example, >one of the "hot" digital modes is PSK31. The developer drew upon personal >experience and incorporated features derived from that mode to make a robust >digital mode. More sinning-by-omission, Dee. Peter Martinez, G3PLX, innovated PSK31. Using the available Information Theory rules he knew about, derived from commercial and military technology. It was field-tested for years in Europe by many amateurs there before it got any publicity over here. "Hot" is over a decade OLD, Dee. In 1974 Peter was doing great things with polyphase networks for voice SSB...it was written up in RSGB's member- ship magazine. I doubt the ARRL bothered with publicizing it. >2. Because it is not "book learning", too many people will avoid it since >it is different than the type of learning they are accustomed to. They will >falsely think it is hard when in reality it is different. Requiring them to >learn it gets them over that resistance hump. So...morsemanship really IS a barrier. You admit it. >3. Each and every mode has its strong points and weak points. Each of us >that participate in ham radio should attempt to gain personal experience in >those modes so that we know by that personal experience what those strengths >and weaknesses are. Oh my, there we go on the lecture circuit again. Dee, I started out working as an Illustrator. That's an artist who draws/paints things as they really are. I have an aptitude for that. It is as natural to me to draw, fairly well I might add, as a physically-endowed athlete is to sports or another with a musical aptitude is to playing an instrument. The ability to "advance" in manual morse code skill is NOT a "natural" one but an aptitude in only a few of us. The US military even tested for that aptitude in all recruits of the 1940s and 1950s. [I got okay marks in that, by the way...:-) ] The first radio operators used manual morse code. First, it was fine for the primitive state of the art. Second, it was a mature mode in the wireline communications, a technology even more primitive than radio of that time. Telegraphers weren't taken off the street...they either had the aptitude or they didn't. Once "radio" got going, the telegraphers (downsized from wireline comms by those new-fangled teleprinter thingies) made much of their "abilities" using on-off-keying manual morse. The Morse Mythos was born and grew like wildfire. Good, good newsprint copy! But, as time progressed there came NEW modes, much faster and more accurate, without need of morse specialists at each end of a circuit. The radio telegraphers were downsized. They retired and turned to amateur radio of pre-WW2 times. Morse was still king of the modes and ARRL (by the 1930s) was hailing the king as the "best" for all amateurs. None of this newfangled thing called "voice" for them although they did pay lip-service to it. By 1940 the ARRL was King of the membership organizations (through their publications) and they maintained that morsemanship was the epitome of amateur comms. They kept that up after WW2 and on into the single-channel SSB start in the 1950s...again paying lip- service to this newfangled SSB. And you know what? ARRL is STILL trying to promote morsemanship even if sinning-by omission once more. Back before WRC-03 (that's over three years ago) the IARU took a position that the amateur radio license tests for morse ability was NOT mandatory...make it an option for each administration. Lots of folks went along with that, but NOT the ARRL. League was almost vehement in opposition. OK, the ITU-R amateur radio regulations were CHANGED, going along the lines of the IARU position. [that's the International Amateur Radio Union, Dee] Ah, but NOW the ARRL takes a neutral position, won't go either way...they just say that all amateurs must obey the law...but they lobbied last year to keep SOME manual morse testing for the under-30-MHz privileges. 92 years after being formed, the ARRL just can't give up and change to what OTHER folks want... >If you are interested, I could construct various scenarios where mode X is >the best mode. "X-Files" was cancelled, Dee. [cousin Gillian got a vacation] >However, unless you specifically want to know, I won't >clutter up the newsgroup at this time with discussions that have been >repeated many times by many people already. Please, go on, Dee. I want to hear from your vast experience in radio and all your guru-like knowledge of what is "best" for radio amateurs. Especially WHY everyone has to emulate the olde-tyme amateur days, the ones before you were born. Beep, beep, LenAnderson@ieee.org Life Member, IEEE Article: 229119 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Lloyd" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 02:15:10 -0500 Message-ID: <8vvta.chr.17.1@news.alt.net> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <1156890554.129924.59410@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <1156913916.664238.40320@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote in message news:1156913916.664238.40320@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... From: Dave on Tues, Aug 29 2006 4:38 pm >LenAnderson, You have obviously made an INVESTMENT in your >technical profession. Yes, I have. Not only has it been intellectually rewarding, it was also monetarily rewarding...for the last 54 years. >Make one in your participation in the radio service!! Kiss my yes, "Dave," I've "participated" in numerous radio SERVICES of USA civil radio and in DoD contract work from below LF to Ku-Band. In these previous 54 years I've communicated from land, from the air, from the ocean surface...even once "worked" a station ON the moon. Never once in 53 years was I EVER required to either use or know on-off-keying manual radiotelegraphy. >Amateur Radio is a SERVICE!!! If you only think of it as a hobby your thinking >is flawed. "Dave," you are SO FLAWED that you can't think straight. Here's the real story: Go to the FULL Title 47, C.F.R., and LOOK at ALL the radio SERVICES. The word "service" used in Title 47 is a regulatory term denoting a type and kind of radio activity being regulated under a Part. Go write the FCC if you don't believe that. But, you won't believe that since you are obviously stuck in some kind of "patriotic" pipe-dream where you think a HOBBY activity is some kind of "national service." Look in Part 95, the Personal Radio SERVICES. In there you will find the Citizens Band Radio SERVICE and the Radio- Control Radio SERVICE. Those are all SERVICES, "Dave." There is NOTHING wrong with having a HOBBY. It's a fine hobby in fact. What is wrong, seriously wrong, with your (observable) thinking is that US amateur radio is some kind of quasi-military "national need" that is somehow "important to the national welfare." It isn't. Amateur radio is about as "vital to the nation" as CB or some model airplane flyers on one of the 72 MHz channels. Yes, HAMS get neat certificates from the federal government (suitable for framing) and like to go around saying "they are 'authorized' by the feds" as if that were some Nobel- laureate accomplishment. It isn't. The FCC is tasked with regulating and mitigating ALL United States civil radio. Since amateur radio transmitters emit RF that requires the FCC to regulate it. The FCC, or rather its predecessors (before 1934), decided that licensing was a way of doing that regulation. To get that license required taking a test. That TEST was never, ever any sort of academic achievement thing (FCC was never chartered to be an academic institution), just something to satisfy the FCC that a license applicant was sufficiently knowledgeable to get that license. Note: Satisfed the FCC...not the ARRL, NOT the nebulous "ham community" or even any "Hams in da Hood." Have you got that straight yet, "Dave?" Did you take some kind of oath of "service" on getting your amateur license? Raise the right hand and repeat after whoever was prompting you on the oath? No? I didn't think so. I took a REAL oath on 13 March 1952, "Dave," entering the United States Army. A Real SERVICE, "Dave." I did my "eight" and got an Honorable Discharge. From February 1953 to end of January 1956 I worked HF comms in Big Time radio. You can even download a photo essay of that from this link: http://sujan.hallikainen.org/BroadcastHistory/uploads/My3Years.pdf It's 6 MB and will take about 19 minutes download over a POTS dial-up connection. If you look closely at those 20 pages you won't find a single thing about "working CW" (on-off-keying manual telegraphy) yet the whole station ran 24/7 pushing about 220K messages a month. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to send that many (some of which were encrypted) by manual telegraphy unless the signal battalion was doubled. It didn't have to be because the messages got through and on-time. That was 53 to 51 years ago, "Dave." What do you think the military uses NOW for communications? Data, "Dave," Data. High-speed data, "Dave," not some dinky 1200 baud amateur stuff. DIGITAL. Digital can be on-line encrypted and on-line decrypted securely. You show me where the REAL Services use manual radiotelegraphy, "Dave." They don't. It is voice and/or data, most of it in the field done DIGITALLY. >/s/ Dave, BSEE, Program Chief Engineer-retired, LGM-118A(RS), MK21/W87 WTF, "Dave?" So, you tacked on a bunch of undescribed acronym things supposedly project numbers or IDs. Are we to be "impressed?" I'm not. I've worked alongside and for PhDs who didn't bother with IMAGE and all that rank-status-title BS... WE got the job done, working together. Amateur radio MIGHT get something done working together. But, you olde-tymers won't. You have to RULE, holding fast to the traditions of 50 to 70 years ago...because YOU and all the olde-tymers had to do it so everyone else has to...and all you olde-tymer morsemen think that "CW" is somehow "best." It isn't "best." If you really have a BSEE instead of just PR BS about morsemanship, you would realize that. > "Dave," amateur radio isn't about missles. Save your energy for donating DVDs of "Strategic Air Command" (starring Jimmy Stewart) to give to impressionable youngsters. I've been in the smoke-and-fire trade of rocket engines for a little while (Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International). Trust me, rocket engines do NOT use manual radiotelegraphy. BTW, SAC is GONE, "Dave." A whole reorganization in the USAF some time ago. No more "oil burner routes" or flying out to loiter near the USSR (the USSR is gone, too). BTW, there were SSB transmitters emitting 12 KHz wide RF long before SAC got the single-channel SSB stuff to use on such loitering. I know, having to keep a few of those REAL SSB transmitters running correctly. Now, "Dave," I can't fault on-off-keying CW any. The key fob for our 2005 Malibu MAXX uses that. Yes, the last vestige of high-speed CW (REAL CW) done digitally. Done by the hundreds of thousands all over the country daily. Nearly all of them operated by unlicensed NON-MORSE-TESTED civilians! That Chebbie got in our garage courtesy of "investments," "Dave." Investments in REAL work, not playing like big-time 1930s radio ops "jobs" of a long- past age by AMATEURS. Beep, beep, LenAnderson@ieee.org Life Member, IEEE Oh, my. Lennie is pontificating yet again. Bragging. Reminding us, The Great Unwashed, of his deeds of electronic daring-do. Listen up, gents and Gentiles, as Lenny regales us with his words of wisdom and his off-beat Mississippi brand of home-spun humor. Good to see he is doing so over his own name this time rather than over the callsign of another. YAWN! Article: 229120 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:19:09 GMT "Richard Clark" wrote in message news:pop8f2h8fkp9nloom8taqjn880umq22jlh@4ax.com... > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:27:10 GMT, "Lee" > wrote: > > >Yes, thanks for the info but i would like a little more gain than a standard > >discone gives...going to a parabolic discone would be the alternate option > >but a little too involved.... > > Parabolic discone??!!!?? Involved is not the word. > > Hi Lee, > > Everyone wants more gain. You don't say why and that may negate > wanting gain. > > At the frequency you are desiring, performance is very much limited to > line of sight and even 2M handhelds with rubber duckies can work the > Space Shuttle an hundred miles up. > > Consider the downside of gain: you are a tourist at the Grand Canyon > and you put a telephoto lens on your camera (high gain). When you get > home and show your pictures to friends, they might ask why you went to > the Grand Canyon but took pictures only of the river bed at the > bottom, or a cactus on the ridge. Too much gain for the intended use > which was to show the ENTIRE canyon in one shot. This would take a > wide-angle lens (very low gain). I have a wide angle lens (low gain) it`s known as a discone !!! freq range to 3000megs, supposedly 0db ref dipole that has heard one or two weak signals just outside its range....now i need a telephoto lens to make out what it is.......a wideband antenna with gain -- a log periodic!!!! With respect Richard, i have a scanning radio receiver that scans up to 2500megs - that`s a lot of coverage which requires more gain the higher you go....a discone just doesn`t cut it gainwise so i need a wideband antenna with more directional gain to work alongside the discone...a yagi with one meg bandwidth isn`t much use either...imagine how many i would have lying around!!! besides, i know how to design those....... :-) > Anyway, simple scaling works. Just research the model of antenna that > gives you the gain characteristics you want, and scale to your band of > interest. The downside here is you may find that you have designed > yourself into a corner because you cannot find the right stock that > supports the dimensions. For a log periodic, this might not matter so > much, and especially for a receiver, but latitude is not generous. If i knew how to scale or re-engineer an existing design, i wouldn`t be on this NG asking how to do it ... Thanks for the advice Richard ...... 73... Lee......G6ZSG...... Article: 229121 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Lloyd" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 02:37:01 -0500 Message-ID: <9016a.9pp.19.1@news.alt.net> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <1156914277.288760.133060@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> wrote in message news:1156914277.288760.133060@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... From: Dee Flint on Tues, Aug 29 2006 4:25 pm Email: "Dee Flint" Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.scanner >"George Orwell" wrote in message >> Al Klein said: >>>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>>expect you to be able to understand that. > >> Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the hobby. >> What use is the code requirements? >> I can't really see in today's era, the need for them? I've been surfing >> around looking at ham and talking to >> an old friend that had a license and it look interesting to me. > >> But, given that many professional people like myself are stretched for >> time, what good does all the licensing >> and code requirements do for you besides build up boundries to doing >> something new and fun? > >If you will read Part 97 (the rules that govern amateur radio), the >government doesn't care about you doing something new and fun. Dee, the "rules that govern amateur radio" are the ENTIRETY of Title 47 C.F.R. I don't care that the ARRL pushes ONLY Part 97. Part 1 has plenty about amateur radio as well as a few other Parts. Look it up. It's free at the US Government Printing Office website. >The section >on basis and purpose makes it quite clear that their objectives are quite >different. The "objectives" of the FCC are to regulate and mitigate ALL civil radio in the USA, Dee. That's what the Communications Act of 1934 and the Telecommunications Act of 1996 chartered them to do (plus quite a bit on wireline comms...which don't apply to amateur radio). The "Basis and Purpose" has a lot of POLITICAL boilerplate in it, just like most of the other Parts for other radio SERVICES. Get real. > They want people knowledgeable in ham radio and who are >interested in expanding that knowledge. The FCC is mainly interested in all radio services' users FOLLOWING THE REGULATIONS, Dee. That's their job. The FCC doesn't "want" people a certain way, only to FOLLOW THE REGULATIONS. >> I'm in a pretty technical field, and I study to keep up in that field >> everyday, the last thing I want to do, >> is have to spend my weekends studying to talk on a radio. If less >> stringent requirements were there, I could >> easily afford the tools of the trade, and would like to just jump in and >> start working with a ham setup. I'm >> particularly interested in exploring the amateur radio/computer >> connections. "George," you've got a whole bunch in this forum who think that amateur radio is some kind of veddy formal "JOB" with absolutes on THE WAY THEY DO IT. It's almost draconian in the insistence of "correct proceedure." No one will get fired from that "job" if they don't use "correct" ways but the way they blabber on you'd think they were "supervisors." >> I have no problem informally looking up information and learning on my own >> (heck, that's what I'm doing in >> the USENET group to begin with)...but, I just don't have the time for >> archaic rules, regulations and codes >> that as far as I can see...really serve no real purpose but, to keep out >> busy people that might like to >> participate. > >Until and unless you have actually participated in amateur radio in a wide >variety of aspects, it is difficult to asses which rules, regulations, >knowledge, etc are archaic and which should remain as requirements. Horsepuckey. Dee, "George" is talking about GETTING INTO amateur radio. Don't give us this olde-tymer morseperson "I've operated all the modes there are" stuff. Dee, I've operated lots more modes on radio than YOU are allowed to as an amateur. Manual morse code ability IS an ARCHAIC mode of communications Dee. ALL the other US radio services have either dropped it for comms or never bothered with it in the first place. ALL. The ARRL and the olde-tyme morsepersons insist that the manual morse test "MUST" remain to "show something" about commitment and dedication. To WHOM, Dee? To YOU? To da Hams in da hood? >Notice >that the majority of people advocating ditching requirements are those who >have not yet passed those requirements, regardless of their age. Dee, before you get to the downright-bitchy stage, may I remind you that some of us professionals in radio and electronics NEVER BOTHERED WITH AN AMATEUR RADIO TEST? I got my First 'Phone in 1956. Considerably more testing involved than a ham license test then. Could YOU get a GROL now? Could YOU get a job working with radio hardware? >Note that >the majority of people advocating keeping the requirements have passed them >and have experience in amateur radio again regardless of their age. Yes, nine-year-old Extras possess the maturity and wisdom of the ages, all through having taken that morse test and gotten that magic certificate (suitable for framing). >As far as "busy people" go, again refer to the basis and purpose as given in >the rules. The government is not concerned about your choice of how you use >your time. It has no bearing on what their goals are. Dee, you are LECTURING again. [just how long have you been in ANY radio?] Dee, go look at some 1990 documents on the creation of the no-code-test Technician license. There's a copy available for free download on the NCI website. Over 16 years ago the FCC said outright that it didn't think the manual morse code test suited their purpose in granting an amateur radio license. The FCC said the same thing in last year's NPRM. I DO have to remind you that the FCC's only job is to REGULATE all civil radio in the USA. Their only task is to do that and mitigate matters of interference with other radio services (plus wireline but that's not concerning amateurs). Theirs is not to brainwash hams...that's the ARRL's task. >> Can you give me valid reasons as to what useful purpose in today's age >> they serve? [stand by for the LITANY from the Church of St. Hiram] >Every piece of knowledge has its uses. The difficult part is winnowing >through it and decide what should be tested and what should not. Ahem, to olde-tyme morsepersons, manual morse code skill MUST be tested for any radio privileges below 30 MHz. That's engraved in everlasting marble and protected by nuclear-blast armor plate. >Here's why I think code should still be tested: >1. It is still one of the basic building blocks of ham radio. Horsepucky. It was only the first mode used...had to be in the primitive-technology of early radio using "spark." Spark is outlawed now, Dee. > For example, >one of the "hot" digital modes is PSK31. The developer drew upon personal >experience and incorporated features derived from that mode to make a robust >digital mode. More sinning-by-omission, Dee. Peter Martinez, G3PLX, innovated PSK31. Using the available Information Theory rules he knew about, derived from commercial and military technology. It was field-tested for years in Europe by many amateurs there before it got any publicity over here. "Hot" is over a decade OLD, Dee. In 1974 Peter was doing great things with polyphase networks for voice SSB...it was written up in RSGB's member- ship magazine. I doubt the ARRL bothered with publicizing it. >2. Because it is not "book learning", too many people will avoid it since >it is different than the type of learning they are accustomed to. They will >falsely think it is hard when in reality it is different. Requiring them to >learn it gets them over that resistance hump. So...morsemanship really IS a barrier. You admit it. >3. Each and every mode has its strong points and weak points. Each of us >that participate in ham radio should attempt to gain personal experience in >those modes so that we know by that personal experience what those strengths >and weaknesses are. Oh my, there we go on the lecture circuit again. Dee, I started out working as an Illustrator. That's an artist who draws/paints things as they really are. I have an aptitude for that. It is as natural to me to draw, fairly well I might add, as a physically-endowed athlete is to sports or another with a musical aptitude is to playing an instrument. The ability to "advance" in manual morse code skill is NOT a "natural" one but an aptitude in only a few of us. The US military even tested for that aptitude in all recruits of the 1940s and 1950s. [I got okay marks in that, by the way...:-) ] The first radio operators used manual morse code. First, it was fine for the primitive state of the art. Second, it was a mature mode in the wireline communications, a technology even more primitive than radio of that time. Telegraphers weren't taken off the street...they either had the aptitude or they didn't. Once "radio" got going, the telegraphers (downsized from wireline comms by those new-fangled teleprinter thingies) made much of their "abilities" using on-off-keying manual morse. The Morse Mythos was born and grew like wildfire. Good, good newsprint copy! But, as time progressed there came NEW modes, much faster and more accurate, without need of morse specialists at each end of a circuit. The radio telegraphers were downsized. They retired and turned to amateur radio of pre-WW2 times. Morse was still king of the modes and ARRL (by the 1930s) was hailing the king as the "best" for all amateurs. None of this newfangled thing called "voice" for them although they did pay lip-service to it. By 1940 the ARRL was King of the membership organizations (through their publications) and they maintained that morsemanship was the epitome of amateur comms. They kept that up after WW2 and on into the single-channel SSB start in the 1950s...again paying lip- service to this newfangled SSB. And you know what? ARRL is STILL trying to promote morsemanship even if sinning-by omission once more. Back before WRC-03 (that's over three years ago) the IARU took a position that the amateur radio license tests for morse ability was NOT mandatory...make it an option for each administration. Lots of folks went along with that, but NOT the ARRL. League was almost vehement in opposition. OK, the ITU-R amateur radio regulations were CHANGED, going along the lines of the IARU position. [that's the International Amateur Radio Union, Dee] Ah, but NOW the ARRL takes a neutral position, won't go either way...they just say that all amateurs must obey the law...but they lobbied last year to keep SOME manual morse testing for the under-30-MHz privileges. 92 years after being formed, the ARRL just can't give up and change to what OTHER folks want... >If you are interested, I could construct various scenarios where mode X is >the best mode. "X-Files" was cancelled, Dee. [cousin Gillian got a vacation] >However, unless you specifically want to know, I won't >clutter up the newsgroup at this time with discussions that have been >repeated many times by many people already. Please, go on, Dee. I want to hear from your vast experience in radio and all your guru-like knowledge of what is "best" for radio amateurs. Especially WHY everyone has to emulate the olde-tyme amateur days, the ones before you were born. Beep, beep, LenAnderson@ieee.org Life Member, IEEE > Wow! It took you so long to say so little, Len! Why not simply toss the "personal experience" gauntlet directly into her chops and challenge Dee to a battle of the electronic wits at sunrise? I'm sure it will do wonders for your machismo and, if it makes you feel that you succeeded in one-upmanshit, perhaps you can even send her to her corner, crying for mercy. Go ahead, Len. Dazzle her with your brilliance and browbeat her if you can. There...don't you feel better already? Was the relief good for you? Feel vindicated? Article: 229122 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:56:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:19:09 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >I have a wide angle lens (low gain) it`s known as a discone !!! >freq range to 3000megs, Hi Lee, Simply because it has a "frequency range to 3000megs" does not mean it is usable to 3000megs - only that it matches to 3000megs. Matching and usability are not strictly related. >supposedly 0db ref dipole that has heard one >or two weak signals just outside its range Antennas don't have "ranges." You may experience poor performance due to the combination of transmit power, path loss, and receiver sensitivity, but none of this has anything to do with the antenna (unless its poor construction adds loss). If you have too much path loss, not enough transmit power, or poor receive sensitivity, then, yes, a gain antenna will make up for those problems (as long as S+N/N is sufficient in the end) - but this still does not confer a range specification to an antenna. This would be whole lot simpler if you simply told us the model number of this discone. >If i knew how to scale or re-engineer an existing design, i wouldn`t be on >this NG >asking how to do it ... You don't offer enough parameters like frequency span, gain, F/B, how long a feedline, what kind of feedline (lot of potential loss there) for someone to whip out a design here, and that wouldn't be a modest enterprise if you did. Scaling is the easiest solution, perhaps you should buy a log periodic. Google would be another solution, your problem would not be unique - would it? 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229123 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> <4srbe2577shkrhbsaidukaoarh6v251n47@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Message-ID: <1FaJg.8404$9v5.4069@bignews8.bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 02:55:15 -0400 "John Ferrell" wrote in message news:4srbe2577shkrhbsaidukaoarh6v251n47@4ax.com... > Since it appears that the benefit of the cage is bandwidth I ran a few > scenario's with EZNEC and a 40 Meter vertical that is 33 feet tall. > note that I did not correct for resonance shifting and that I am > assuming that whatever the mesh is, it will not beat a solid. > > http://www.dixienc.us/28FtVert/BandwithVsDia.htm > > Given that most of us agree that trying to better a 2:1 SWR is into > diminishing returns I believe this illustrates the cage's loss of > popularity. > > Defiantly an appealing sight though... > > de W8CCW John > > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:06:06 -0700, Joe Bloe > wrote: > >>Hello, >> My attention has been caught by the abilities of a "Fat Conductor" >>for an antenna. I understand that this has been achieved by using >>what is (little known about) a Caged Di-Pole. I have seen them before >>in older photographs, mostly draped over an old steamship, stem to >>stern. >> >> The Caged Di-Pole is supposed to be very well suited for weak signal >>reception. I know that a Yagi can do very well in this regard, but >>its the art of it that I'm interested in, and as far as I can see, >>it's almost an lost aspect of HAM radio nowadays. >> >> Does anybody remember these things? >> >> 73's >> Rob > John Ferrell W8CCW What if all the wires are not the same length. I know my friends were able to cover all of 75/80 without retuning but this may have been because of the losses in the steel wire they were using.. Article: 229124 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:04:08 GMT "Richard Clark" wrote in message news:qpcaf218jtbo8s2fib4uvrhjs0cnsm94co@4ax.com... > On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:19:09 GMT, "Lee" > wrote: Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:07:42 -0700 Message-ID: <69haf2lbjidit8jdu7f0v780lchchpea4s@4ax.com> References: On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:04:08 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >Richard, all i want is design software to build a LPA!!!! do you or >don`t you know of any????? EZNEC 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229126 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <69haf2lbjidit8jdu7f0v780lchchpea4s@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 08:16:12 GMT "Richard Clark" wrote in message news:69haf2lbjidit8jdu7f0v780lchchpea4s@4ax.com... > On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:04:08 GMT, "Lee" > wrote: > >Richard, all i want is design software to build a LPA!!!! do you or > >don`t you know of any????? > > EZNEC Why didn`t you say that in the first place?? Thankyou... G6ZSG... > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229127 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Message-ID: References: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 08:23:52 GMT On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:43:15 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >I have just bought a Yaesu VR5000 receiver/scanner and while looking round >for a wideband antenna ... Scanners are notorious for a lack of front end selectivity and resultant high intermodulation products / noise. Sometimes they depend on narrow band antennas to supplement their meagre front end selectivity. In the absense of external front end selectivity, you may find that the realisable sensitivity is quite a deal higher (tens of dB worse) than specification, depending on your own RF environment. Owen -- Article: 229128 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 30 Aug 2006 02:54:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1156931670.150626.53300@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> Not Lloyd wrote: > wrote in message > Wow! It took you so long to say so little, Len! so he is long winded? > Why not simply toss the "personal experience" gauntlet directly into her > chops and challenge Dee to a battle of the electronic wits at sunrise? I'm > sure it will do wonders for your machismo and, if it makes you feel that you > succeeded in one-upmanshit, perhaps you can even send her to her corner, > crying for mercy. not likely Dee obviously lacks the snece for that > Go ahead, Len. Dazzle her with your brilliance and browbeat her if you can. > There...don't you feel better already? Was the relief good for you? Feel > vindicated? Article: 229129 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Lloyd" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:17:18 -0500 Message-ID: <90e3b.oed.19.1@news.alt.net> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <1156914277.288760.133060@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <9016a.9pp.19.1@news.alt.net> <1156931670.150626.53300@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> "an old friend" wrote in message news:1156931670.150626.53300@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... Not Lloyd wrote: > wrote in message > Wow! It took you so long to say so little, Len! so he is long winded? > Why not simply toss the "personal experience" gauntlet directly into her > chops and challenge Dee to a battle of the electronic wits at sunrise? I'm > sure it will do wonders for your machismo and, if it makes you feel that you > succeeded in one-upmanshit, perhaps you can even send her to her corner, > crying for mercy. not likely Dee obviously lacks the snece for that > Go ahead, Len. Dazzle her with your brilliance and browbeat her if you can. > There...don't you feel better already? Was the relief good for you? Feel > vindicated? "snece"? Care to 'splain that, Lucy? Article: 229130 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:17:49 -0400 Message-ID: <8dpaf29pm459kkbs535d0o1blqjqrok3h1@4ax.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <1156914277.288760.133060@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <9016a.9pp.19.1@news.alt.net> <1156931670.150626.53300@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <90e3b.oed.19.1@news.alt.net> On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:17:18 -0500, "Not Lloyd" wrote: > >"an old friend" wrote in message >news:1156931670.150626.53300@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... >"snece"? Care to 'splain that, Lucy? who is lucy you just can't deal with attributions and being an internet guru and that sad > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229131 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:43:01 GMT "Owen Duffy" wrote in message news:s1iaf25vhunh0sd9qml3r9m0g7eabjau6q@4ax.com... > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:43:15 GMT, "Lee" > wrote: > > > >I have just bought a Yaesu VR5000 receiver/scanner and while looking round > >for a wideband antenna > ... > > Scanners are notorious for a lack of front end selectivity and > resultant high intermodulation products / noise. Yes i am taking a bit of a chance with a wideband antenna Owen but if i can resolve a signal, it is a start.....i have built a bow tie can-tenna for 23cms which seems to work okay, now, i`ll build one for 13 cms with a corner reflector, only because i know something is there!!!. > Sometimes they depend on narrow band antennas to supplement their > meagre front end selectivity. Agreed!!. > In the absense of external front end selectivity, you may find that > the realisable sensitivity is quite a deal higher (tens of dB worse) > than specification, depending on your own RF environment. That is where i will need a narrow filter pre-amp which will be bought (or built) when needed..... Thanks for your input Owen, the Yaesu is certainly a great deal better than the AOR 2002 which is as wide as a barn door, but served its purpose!!!..... Regards.. Lee....G6ZSG.... Article: 229132 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Sun Tzu Subject: Ground screen material Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:02:14 -1000 Message-ID: <44f56310$0$8857$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> I have a vertical antenna I would like to build a ground screen for. Can someone suggest what type of material I can use for this? I would like to purchase the material from Lowe's or Home Depot if possible. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229133 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: anonymous Subject: Re: Ethical question Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 04:41:29 -0700 References: Message-ID: <44f57afc$0$8149$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:12:29 +0000, Slow Code wrote: > > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > there is no ethics involved here. now a true ethical question: can an unlicensed person using radio technology to violate part 15 still be in violation if he had a ham license (we're talkin